What value translations have (meta-theorizing)

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

I have noticed a shift in theorizing, based on the original Japanese text. I have a few thoughts on the matter, and I would like all of your input, as well.

When I first started theorizing, there was no consideration for any other translations. At least not that I could find. Yes, this was quite a while back. Then, more information was being talked about, related to other languages. I even remember one theorist comparing a few translations, finding where common meanings could be found. I think this was great. When a concept is successfully translated into different languages, the concept is given the chance to develop further than it was able to in it's original form. For instance, take the word "love." If I translate it as "Agape," Agape is not an English word, but it still means love, and it is quite a different love, compared to "Eros."

Lately though, and not just here, I have seen a rise in sentiments that boil down to the only true version of the games are the Japanese versions. Anything that is different, now has no value. This, unfortunately, suggests that not only are the English versions of the game inferior, possibly to the point of not being canon at all. It also means that useful theories can only come from the Japanese text. I have a large problem with the translation being taken this far. It devalues the experience of the game. Theorists, like my self, who prefer to mainly theorize about games we have played, are now at a disadvantage, compared someone who has never touched the game, but got everything from a wall of text, or worse, taken someone else's word at what something translates to. Yes, there are reliable sources, but there are also unreliable sources. Taken too far, this can become a form of gate keeping.

Then, there is the idea of the death of the author. Once a work is released into the wild, it is no longer in control of the creator. It is up to the consumer to make of it as they will. While this also has it's pitfalls, if taken too far, it greatly values the experience of the game, in all of it's iterations. Ultimately, many theorists will only interact with their translation of the series, and that will be the birth place of many theories. In my opinion, as long as we don't take it so far as to ignore the intent of the creators, we do need to keep the death of the author in mind.

Even though this video uses poetry to talk about the conundrum here, I think it not only defines the struggle, but also sums up my take on the whole issue.

How Translation Changes Art

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youtu.be

I personally prefer to base my theories in my own experience, using other translations (not just Japanese) to clarify and refine them.

 

[Moblinking5000]

Lately though, and not just here, I have seen a rise in sentiments that boil down to the only true version of the games are the Japanese versions. Anything that is different, now has no value. This, unfortunately, suggests that not only are the English versions of the game inferior, possibly to the point of not being canon at all. It also means that useful theories can only come from the Japanese text. I have a large problem with the translation being taken this far. It devalues the experience of the game. Theorists, like my self, who prefer to mainly theorize about games we have played, are now at a disadvantage, compared someone who has never touched the game, but got everything from a wall of text, or worse, taken someone else's word at what something translates to. Yes, there are reliable sources, but there are also unreliable sources. Taken too far, this can become a form of gate keeping.

The games are made in Japan, therefore, the Japanese versions should be considered the canon versions, as things are changed for no reason sometimes, sometimes contradicting other things we see. In ALttP, for example, the English manual says that the Master Sword was created during the Imprisoning War, but the JP says it was created long before. The JP matches other games made after that take place before ALttP like OoT and SS, but the English is contradictory. Another example is how, in TWW, Ganon says that the MS has kept a seal on him and his magic intact in the English, which is false, as he's out and about before then, but in the JP, he says that his demon army below was unsealed...which we see in game in all versions, as the monsters in HC start stirring once the Hero of Winds pulled the MS.

Don't even get me started on BotW's abhorrent localization...

Obviously, we don't have access to all the JP versions, meaning we'll sometimes have to make do with the NoA versions and hope that they are right in their absence. But the fact remains that when there's contradictions: NoJ>NoA

Then, there is the idea of the death of the author. Once a work is released into the wild, it is no longer in control of the creator. It is up to the consumer to make of it as they will. While this also has it's pitfalls, if taken too far, it greatly values the experience of the game, in all of it's iterations. Ultimately, many theorists will only interact with their translation of the series, and that will be the birth place of many theories. In my opinion, as long as we don't take it so far as to ignore the intent of the creators, we do need to keep the death of the author in mind.

Sorry, but I ****ing HATE DotA with an undying passion. The idea is inherently anti intellectual nonsense dressed up as intellectual free thought. It inherently ignores intent of the creators, which if you're a serious theorist, should be the most important thing to keep in mind. DotA is flat earth-tier nonsense., in my honest opinion.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

Sorry, but I ****ing HATE DotA with an undying passion. The idea is inherently anti intellectual nonsense dressed up as intellectual free thought. It inherently ignores intent of the creators, which if you're a serious theorist, should be the most important thing to keep in mind. DotA is flat earth-tier nonsense., in my honest opinion.

Yet, we see the effects of Death of the Author in our everyday lives. Quotes and symbols that have different meanings from the creator's intent. People getting canceled, not for how they wanted people to react, but for how people understood it themselves. It's not a made up thing, that people hold to for the sake of feeling smart. It's found in basic psychology. It's found in basic sociology. It is also impossible to know 100% of another person's intent, and it is on the consumer/receiver to fill in the gaps with their own understanding. This is not to say you are completely wrong, though. There are people who take Death of the Author too far. I view it as more of a continuum, rather than an absolute. Authors exist in different stages of being dead. Even the actually dead ones still have some life in them.

On top of that, we have a special case, where the creators have stated that they want fans to fill in the gaps, and theorize. This, to me shifts the author a little closer to the dead side of the spectrum. Part of the intent is for us, the fans to add our own ideas to the mix.

Edit: This thread is very interesting, when taking this into account:

MAJOR THEORY: The evil and fascist Hylian royal family practices global mass mind-reading and global mass surveillance!!

Before I start telling you about this major theory, here's a quick refresher... Not too long ago I made a post (here on ZD) about how the Hylian royal family or Hylian royals are not the "good guys" we've been socially conditioned to believe that they are growing up (you can go read that post...

www.zeldadungeon.net

The intent versus what we read in is amazing.

The games are made in Japan, therefore, the Japanese versions should be considered the canon versions, as things are changed for no reason sometimes, sometimes contradicting other things we see. In ALttP, for example, the English manual says that the Master Sword was created during the Imprisoning War, but the JP says it was created long before. The JP matches other games made after that take place before ALttP like OoT and SS, but the English is contradictory. Another example is how, in TWW, Ganon says that the MS has kept a seal on him and his magic intact in the English, which is false, as he's out and about before then, but in the JP, he says that his demon army below was unsealed...which we see in game in all versions, as the monsters in HC start stirring once the Hero of Winds pulled the MS.

I suppose this is where I add one part gripe, to one part wishful thinking, to one part reiteration. I think a good translation should add depth. If we are getting localizations that really do provide outright bad information, and don't tell the story that was created, we need to demand better translations. If we are given good translations, we can combine them to actually get a deeper meaning. If the American version of A Link to the Past were considered to be accurate, and the Japanese version cannon, it would be great evidence for the existing theory that the Master Sword needs to be up kept, repaired, and even rebuilt from time to time. Other wise, it's just a mistake. A faulty product, with diminished value.

I'm not saying that we need to find excuses to cover poor translations, either. I'm saying that we should be given good translations that would allow for better theory craft. I want to make theories about Tears of the Kingdom, as I experience it, and improve them as information about different translations come out, rather than find out that I have been lied to by the very game I play.

Obviously, we don't have access to all the JP versions, meaning we'll sometimes have to make do with the NoA versions and hope that they are right in their absence. But the fact remains that when there's contradictions: NoJ>NoA

I am ultimately fine with NoJ>NoA. I would prefer NoJ≥NoA. What I am afraid of is an eventual NoJ≠NoA.