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What Annoyed You Today?

I'm so fricking tired of people constantly attacking people with natural gifts in the arts. At this point, people who shut down people who let their feelings guide them, are just self conscious of the fact that they probably don't have feelings to put into their work and use theory as a rulebook to artificially implant feelings into the work. Theory is simply reverse engineering, and it remains present in all art despite not actively studying it. It manifested in works long before it was studied and identified, afterall. Most people don't have to actively consider it in order to follow it. Of course it's good to be aware of it, but assuming people are going to be off rhythm or off key just because its not their priority is pretty condescending. Congratulations, you value sterilized,, generic music and not fulfilling music.

Assuming someone who prioritizes emotion doesn't know how to compose music and has zero regards for how a song ought to be structured sounds like an insecurity you have moreso than a problem of the person saying they value feelings. I think it's just easier to assume that people who follow emotions in art don't know what they're doing so the people without natural talent and had to use theory solely to develop their own sense for art don't feel threatened by it.

I feel constantly shut down as an artist anymore because I just "have an eye" for things and it used to be something that was welcomed but now it's not. And of course I'm mostly talking with the visual arts, but this applies to everything. Talent is ****ing worthless now. Just follow the damn tutorials everyone else does, and create stuff the same as everyone else does. It's boring and meaningless and consumerism hell.

And sure there are probably people out there who don't know what the **** they're doing but if they didn't actually care about their work or getting better, they wouldn't attend an "advice group." Maybe you're the one with the problem if you attended an advice group with a closed mind, and think you have no room to improve.
 

TheGreatCthulhu

Composer of the Night.
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Location
United States of America
Gender
Very much a dude.
I'm so fricking tired of people constantly attacking people with natural gifts in the arts. At this point, people who shut down people who let their feelings guide them, are just self conscious of the fact that they probably don't have feelings to put into their work and use theory as a rulebook to artificially implant feelings into the work. Theory is simply reverse engineering, and it remains present in all art despite not actively studying it. It manifested in works long before it was studied and identified, afterall. Most people don't have to actively consider it in order to follow it. Of course it's good to be aware of it, but assuming people are going to be off rhythm or off key just because its not their priority is pretty condescending. Congratulations, you value sterilized,, generic music and not fulfilling music.

Assuming someone who prioritizes emotion doesn't know how to compose music and has zero regards for how a song ought to be structured sounds like an insecurity you have moreso than a problem of the person saying they value feelings. I think it's just easier to assume that people who follow emotions in art don't know what they're doing so the people without natural talent and had to use theory solely to develop their own sense for art don't feel threatened by it.

I feel constantly shut down as an artist anymore because I just "have an eye" for things and it used to be something that was welcomed but now it's not. And of course I'm mostly talking with the visual arts, but this applies to everything. Talent is ****ing worthless now. Just follow the damn tutorials everyone else does, and create stuff the same as everyone else does. It's boring and meaningless and consumerism hell.

And sure there are probably people out there who don't know what the **** they're doing but if they didn't actually care about their work or getting better, they wouldn't attend an "advice group." Maybe you're the one with the problem if you attended an advice group with a closed mind, and think you have no room to improve.
Don't take my post the wrong way, feeling is always important in music, and always will be.

Moreso my complaint lies with those saying that you shouldn't learn or think about music critically, and study it, as if studying music, learning it, and thinking about it critically somehow ruins your natural feel. It really doesn't.

Natural talent is always a plus, but I feel that talent becomes truly devastating (in a good way) if it's cultivated with good ol' fashioned study, work, and discipline.

:)
 
I apologize my post was so emotionally charged, but I am REALLY fed up with the way creativity is so controlled now. I blame the school system honestly, but that's probably only the start of it. But majoring in any art basically introduces a very contrived creative process and it's literally punishment to anyone who has had past experience with it and already has their own process.

But yes, I think critically thinking of work is useful and valuable, but I don't think there's a requirement to WHEN that occurs in the creative process. Oftentimes, I get the most out of re-interpreting my work midway through, and if it's not exactly how I envisioned the piece in my head, or doesn't communicate what I want, I can tune it to what I want it to be or just save the idea or whatever.

No hard feelings of course
 

TheGreatCthulhu

Composer of the Night.
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Location
United States of America
Gender
Very much a dude.
I apologize my post was so emotionally charged, but I am REALLY fed up with the way creativity is so controlled now. I blame the school system honestly, but that's probably only the start of it. But majoring in any art basically introduces a very contrived creative process and it's literally punishment to anyone who has had past experience with it and already has their own process.

But yes, I think critically thinking of work is useful and valuable, but I don't think there's a requirement to WHEN that occurs in the creative process. Oftentimes, I get the most out of re-interpreting my work midway through, and if it's not exactly how I envisioned the piece in my head, or doesn't communicate what I want, I can tune it to what I want it to be or just save the idea or whatever.

No hard feelings of course
Well, I look at it like this.

Creativity is always up to the person. Their experiences, what instrument they play, their musical tastes and inspirations, as well as style are going to inform what we all ultimately hear. That's a good thing.

So I define good musicianship very broadly. A good musician plays in key and on time, and ultimately uses their musicality and talent to serve the song and composition to make it better.

It's a very broad brush, and accounts for differences in taste.

Now, some folks, who I was mainly addressing in my post, feeling that such pieces where the artist put their all into it, all of the tricks they've learned, their style, flair, creativity, and soul into the piece just came out of thin air, and that it's not worthwhile to analyze what it is about their body of work that makes it so damn good.

After all, I also think of music theory as akin to color theory. We're just giving labels to certain sounds or tendencies.

Like, for example, the primary dominant function chord in the key of E minor is B7. Stuff like that.

So when we analyze music in such a fashion, it can be interesting to learn what their tendencies are.

And that's always a worthwhile endeavor.

Largely how I feel about talent, at least in terms of music is largely how someone has a natural gift for sports. While that may make it easier for them to excel at music, there's always going to be hard work, disciplined practice, and study to improve their craft.

We've all heard of kung-fu. To the Chinese, it means a skill obtained through discipline, hard work, and practice. Thus, a musician's gong-fu is a combination of talent, study, ear training, and creativity.

I can't remember who gave this saying but it's poignant.

"Hard work trumps talent unless talent also works hard."

:)
 

Uwu_Oocoo2

Joy is in video games and colored pencils
ZD Legend
Forum Volunteer
I apologize my post was so emotionally charged, but I am REALLY fed up with the way creativity is so controlled now. I blame the school system honestly, but that's probably only the start of it. But majoring in any art basically introduces a very contrived creative process and it's literally punishment to anyone who has had past experience with it and already has their own process.

But yes, I think critically thinking of work is useful and valuable, but I don't think there's a requirement to WHEN that occurs in the creative process. Oftentimes, I get the most out of re-interpreting my work midway through, and if it's not exactly how I envisioned the piece in my head, or doesn't communicate what I want, I can tune it to what I want it to be or just save the idea or whatever.

No hard feelings of course
Bro, this just reminds me how annoyed I am with the arts programs in my school. We don't have music, first of all. And in my art class there's no room for freedom of creativity. You could meet every point on the rubric but if it's not exactly what our teacher wants she'll make you do it. We've only done 2 projects this school year. The arts shouldn't be restrictive, there's no right or wrong answer so you can't grade it like a math equation. They're a lot about passion. You don't have to be great at it to start with, it's okay if you follow your feelings, but if you love it a lot you'll slowly get better and it'll show.
 
This reminds me of how my sister had such a problem with her art teacher in high school because like, my sister is ridiculously fast at art. Her favorite medium was chalk pastels and she'd just crank out WEEKS worth of assignments in literally one class and her art teacher was just trying to find ways to slow her down because like, it was high quality work she was putting out like it was what she wanted from the assignment but my sister's process was not what she wanted lmao.
 

TheGreatCthulhu

Composer of the Night.
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Location
United States of America
Gender
Very much a dude.
This reminds me of how my sister had such a problem with her art teacher in high school because like, my sister is ridiculously fast at art. Her favorite medium was chalk pastels and she'd just crank out WEEKS worth of assignments in literally one class and her art teacher was just trying to find ways to slow her down because like, it was high quality work she was putting out like it was what she wanted from the assignment but my sister's process was not what she wanted lmao.
Recording programs at colleges aren't much better.

They go general, but if your passion is recording live drums, metal bands, or what have you, there's nothing those classes contain that will ultimately be a benefit to you or your craft.
 
I feel like music majors aren't super necessary for certain careers in music. I think the big ones would be if you're going into music history or teaching or perhaps being a conductor in an orchestra. Otherwise, they might give you an edge in showing you're dedicated, but so would uh, practicing on your own time. There are lots of ways to get discovered now definitely. I love browsing bandcamp for passion projects. I hope nothing buys up that platform and ruins it because its such a great space for musicians.
 

TheGreatCthulhu

Composer of the Night.
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Location
United States of America
Gender
Very much a dude.
I feel like music majors aren't super necessary for certain careers in music. I think the big ones would be if you're going into music history or teaching or perhaps being a conductor in an orchestra. Otherwise, they might give you an edge in showing you're dedicated, but so would uh, practicing on your own time. There are lots of ways to get discovered now definitely. I love browsing bandcamp for passion projects. I hope nothing buys up that platform and ruins it because its such a great space for musicians.
Agreed.

I just learn and study music because I love learning new things and applying them in music.

But I agree. A degree in music is largely not needed, as there's a LAUNDRY list of musicians that don't have degrees and are successful.

Learning by doing is what I call the Farmer's Insurance method. That we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two.
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

CHIMer Dragonborn
Staff member
Comm. Coordinator
Site Staff
Huh, see in my school system they cut art programs for a really long time because they considered it pointless for a while and wanted to use funding for other things... like a brand new basketball gym for my high school when the gym we already had was already more than big enough, and not even old. Absolutely pointless spending, that gym probably cost thousands, it was money that could have been better spent elsewhere.

Idk this convo reminded me of that. I hated that gym so much. An expansion to or an extra lunch room would have been a way better construction project, in retrospect, considering it was always cramped... that could have been useful.
 

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