• Welcome to ZD Forums! You must create an account and log in to see and participate in the Shoutbox chat on this main index page.

Time travel

Kingwobbly

Kingwu.
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
You're confusing me too now. If it's the same for everyone at 100% then when you travel one light year and it's been one year for Earth then it would take a year for you too. If you don't age on the way there though, that means it was instant for you and didn't take a year.
Is what you're saying that time does not pass for you while you're travelling at light speed?
 

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Gender
trans-pan-demi-ethno-christian-math-autis-genderfluid-cheesecake
It only takes a year because time is relative. Technically you can't move at light speed and the implications of moving at such a speed are insane, so let's look at 99%c. For you, it feels like a year. And it is, except you won't have aged a year. Time dilation is a funky subject to wrap your head around. To an observer, your space ship would look compressed. Even though it takes a year to get from point a to point b, the spaceship and the people inside will have barely aged at all. Relativity is crazy ****, man.
 

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Gender
trans-pan-demi-ethno-christian-math-autis-genderfluid-cheesecake
Basically, it takes an observer a year for you to reach their planet, but depending on the speed you are going, it could only take you a fraction of a second. But it won't feel like a fraction of a second, it will still feel like a year.
 

Kingwobbly

Kingwu.
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
It only takes a year because time is relative. Technically you can't move at light speed and the implications of moving at such a speed are insane, so let's look at 99%c. For you, it feels like a year. And it is, except you won't have aged a year. Time dilation is a funky subject to wrap your head around. To an observer, your space ship would look compressed. Even though it takes a year to get from point a to point b, the spaceship and the people inside will have barely aged at all. Relativity is crazy ****, man.
The way I understand it is if you travel for a year at 99%c then it will feel like a year for you and you will age a year but when you return to Earth 30 years have passed on the planet during the one year in your ship.
 

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Gender
trans-pan-demi-ethno-christian-math-autis-genderfluid-cheesecake
No, if 30 years has passed on Earth, at 99%c it will feel like roughly (a little more, since we are talking 30 light years here) 30 years have passed for you but you will have aged less than 1 year. Time slows down so it feels much much longer than the time that has actually passed.
 
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Location
Alagaesia
No, if 30 years has passed on Earth, at 99%c it will feel like roughly (a little more, since we are talking 30 light years here) 30 years have passed for you but you will have aged less than 1 year. Time slows down so it feels much much longer than the time that has actually passed.

That's not exactly correct. The phenomenon is called time dilation. That means the faster you move, the longer your second is going to be. Time outside of how fast you are moving travels at the same speed. But you are right, if you are going 0.99c you will age slower, but it will feel like that exact amount of time. Age is relative to time. Often times this is represented by two twins. One twin travels to some distant galaxy and back traveling at some fraction of the speed of light. To the twin who was not traveling, the trip took 20 years and to the twin travelling the trip only took 5. That means only 5 years passed for the twin who was traveling because each second for that twin was longer than the twin on earth. So time passed slower. But the twin moving did not experience the twenty years that the earth twin did. It simply didn't exist in the moving twins reference frame.
 
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Location
Alagaesia
Basically, it takes an observer a year for you to reach their planet, but depending on the speed you are going, it could only take you a fraction of a second. But it won't feel like a fraction of a second, it will still feel like a year.
Just wanted to clarify what I was trying to say, because I don't think I got the point across very well. It will not still feel like a year. It will feel like how much time passed in your reference frame. Time dilation actually alters the length of the second in comparison to a second outside of your frame.
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
What is %c? I initially thought it was a typo, but your continued usage of it has left me confused.
 

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Gender
trans-pan-demi-ethno-christian-math-autis-genderfluid-cheesecake
c is the speed of light
 

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Gender
trans-pan-demi-ethno-christian-math-autis-genderfluid-cheesecake
Just wanted to clarify what I was trying to say, because I don't think I got the point across very well. It will not still feel like a year. It will feel like how much time passed in your reference frame. Time dilation actually alters the length of the second in comparison to a second outside of your frame.
So then, if I were to go 99%c, and travel 1 light year, how long would it feel like I was traveling?
 

Kingwobbly

Kingwu.
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
So then, if I were to go 99%c, and travel 1 light year, how long would it feel like I was traveling?
If you travel a light year at nearly the speed of light, it's one year of Earth's time, so it would feel like hardly any time at all for you.
 

Squirrel

The Rodent King
Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Location
The Tree
Going with the idea that as you move faster through space, you slow down through time, while also the time dilation starts to show extreme differences real close to the speed of light, while it is actually you who's personal time is changing, from your perspective, everything else is moving faster and faster. So thinking from the point of view of what appears to be happening to everyone else, when you actually reach the speed of light, which is impossible because it requires an infinite amount of energy, from your point of view, it would seem that everyone else's personal time is moving at an infinite rate of speed. The only way that could happen is if you were no longer moving through time and you were paused at that moment. But if you are no longer moving through time, then all of your movement through the space-time continuum would then be diverted entirely to moving through space. But if you were only moving through space and not time, you'd be teleporting. You'd be moving instantly. But light moves at the speed of light and doesn't move instantly which is where I get confused. What kind of time dilation do photons undergo? In that case, it seems that even when you do reach the speed of light, you should still be moving forwards in time. But then at what speed do you have to move in order to not be moving through time? It would seem that you need to move at an infinite rate of speed to not be moving through time... an infinite rate of speed basically being the definition of not moving through time xD But then why does it take infinite energy only to move at the speed of light?
So many questions, so few answers. I hope I was still adding to the conversation but these are the points that I always get stuck on so I wanted to throw them out there.
 

Emma

The Cassandra
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Location
Vegas
Going with the idea that as you move faster through space, you slow down through time, while also the time dilation starts to show extreme differences real close to the speed of light, while it is actually you who's personal time is changing, from your perspective, everything else is moving faster and faster. So thinking from the point of view of what appears to be happening to everyone else, when you actually reach the speed of light, which is impossible because it requires an infinite amount of energy, from your point of view, it would seem that everyone else's personal time is moving at an infinite rate of speed. The only way that could happen is if you were no longer moving through time and you were paused at that moment. But if you are no longer moving through time, then all of your movement through the space-time continuum would then be diverted entirely to moving through space. But if you were only moving through space and not time, you'd be teleporting. You'd be moving instantly. But light moves at the speed of light and doesn't move instantly which is where I get confused. What kind of time dilation do photons undergo? In that case, it seems that even when you do reach the speed of light, you should still be moving forwards in time. But then at what speed do you have to move in order to not be moving through time? It would seem that you need to move at an infinite rate of speed to not be moving through time... an infinite rate of speed basically being the definition of not moving through time xD But then why does it take infinite energy only to move at the speed of light?
So many questions, so few answers. I hope I was still adding to the conversation but these are the points that I always get stuck on so I wanted to throw them out there.

Just about every question here is answered by this:


So then, if I were to go 99%c, and travel 1 light year, how long would it feel like I was traveling?
If you traveled for a distance of one light year at 99% c, it would take you just under 369 days (368 days 22 hours, 32 minutes, and 44 seconds) of real, non-dialated time, to travel it. Slightly under four days more than a year. But for your own reference frame it'll feel like it was only 52 days (52 days 1 hour, 5 minutes, 14 seconds). Certainly not no time. But significantly less than a year.

The threshold where it would seem that a full year takes place in the amount of time it takes to go one light year is about 70.7% of the speed of light. Exactly the square root of one half. Extremely close to exactly 211,985,280 meters per second. Slower than this, and it'll take longer than a year in your internal reference frame, faster than this, and it'll take less than a year.

But to be almost instant, you're talking considerably faster. For instance, for it to only take one day in your internal reference frame to go one light year, it'd require a velocity of 0.99999625 c, or 299,791,334 m/s, which is 1124 m/s less than c. And for it to take just an hour to go a light year it'd require 0.9999999935c, or 299,792,456 m/s -- only 2 m/s less than c. Extremely fast, but still not no-time.

For reference, the formula for amount of time passed, in years, in the moving reference frame at a given velocity x in terms of the speed of light c after travelling a one light year of real, non-dilated distance is:
EbdpeIo.png

As you can see, when you are talking about instantaneous, no-time, the value would simply be zero. So for a mass-less particle traveling at the speed of light, it would not experience time at all as we understand it. Time goes on for the outside universe, but that particle itself will never "perceive" any of that.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom