The What If Theory: a Double Split in the Timeline!

[Kombatgod]

When it first came out, Ocarina of Time was undoubtly created as a prequel to A Link to the Past. Then Wind Waker came out as a sequel to Ocarina of Time. So when did ALttP happened in relation to WW?

This is one of the major problems that pops out while making a timeline. People tried answering in many ways...

Somebody tried saying ALttP happened after WW, but it is quite impossible the return of the Master Sword after it was left to Ganondorf...

It makes much more sense to place it between OoT and WW, in fact we know that something happened between the two games anyway! WW's intro says that ganon was defeated, then returned, then sealed again... If they wanted to make WW happen right after OoT, they would have made him sealed in Sacred Realm in the beginning! But still there's something wrong... The Triforce is splitted in WW, but united in ALttP... Also the intro says there was no hero when Ganon returned, but we know there have been at least one hero in the times of ALttP...

Many people around here say that ALTTP is in the Child Timeline, but this makes very little sense to me, because that game's backstory says that Ganondorf became Ganon after stealing the Triforce from the Sacred Realm, and then he was sealed there by the seven sages... This happened in the Adult Timeline! You may say that it also happened it the Child Timeline, but we have no proof of it! You're basically saying that the Imprisoning War also happened in the Child Timeline because you want to place ALttP there, since it doesn't seem to fit in the Adult Timeline...

What I think happened at Nintendo is that they made OoT a prequel to ALttP, but then changed some story elements, to make it better... Then made WW as the actual sequel of the corrected events.

So ALttP happens after the original idea of OoT, a story that's a little different than the game we played... The timeline splits again!

............../--WW/PH--ST
............/ \--ALttP
SS--OoT
............\MM--TP

A Link to the Past is basically a "What If" story!
It tells the events of what whould have happen if Link didn't travel 7 years back in time at the end of OoT! He created a descendant, the new Link who stopped Ganon from escaping the Sacred Realm! So WW intro has a new meaning: in that timeline Ganon did the same things he does in ALttP, but there's no Link to stop him, so he's able to escape!
We may also say that in this alternate OoT Ganon got all the three pieces of the Triforce, so that's why he seem to have it all in ALttP (but hey, to me he doesn't, it was splitted but nobody knew it)

What do you guys think?

 

[Hanyou]

Interesting theory. I've often contemplated multiple splits in the timeline.

I've always assumed, however, that ALttP takes place in the child timeline rather than the adult one, placing it after Twilight Princess (and thus, there are no problems with the Master Sword). As for the Imprisoning War, it's possible that it's just a legend, so events are remembered differently than they actually occurred. We know from Twilight Princess that the Sages DID have a struggle with Ganondorf prior to that game, and there's no reason multiple struggles couldn't have occurred.

I agree with your conclusion (multiple timelines) but disagree with your premises. The fact is, since time travel was introduced into the series, the possibilities really are endless. The Temple of Time existed prior to the events in OoT--what if OoT, itself, exists in a split? It's worth contemplating, and allows Nintendo a lot of leverage in how they choose to tell their story, while still giving the games an overall canon. Good stuff.

 

[Kombatgod]

The fact is, since time travel was introduced into the series, the possibilities really are endless. The Temple of Time existed prior to the events in OoT--what if OoT, itself, exists in a split? It's worth contemplating, and allows Nintendo a lot of leverage in how they choose to tell their story, while still giving the games an overall canon. Good stuff.

Wow! That's a nice theory! Imagine if SS features time travel! They could even create a lot of splits so that every game takes place in a timeline of its own!

I've always assumed, however, that ALttP takes place in the child timeline rather than the adult one, placing it after Twilight Princess (and thus, there are no problems with the Master Sword). As for the Imprisoning War, it's possible that it's just a legend, so events are remembered differently than they actually occurred. We know from Twilight Princess that the Sages DID have a struggle with Ganondorf prior to that game, and there's no reason multiple struggles couldn't have occurred.

To me they decided to split the timeline only with WW, so every game that went out before it is in the adult timeline. I believe TP to be the last game to date in the Child Timeline, featuring the end of Ganon and of the sages: the Water Sage's spirit vanished, so no incarnation of the Seven Sages could exist after TP to me.

 

[Hylian Knight]

Funny in the intro to WW it states that the people did pray for the Hero to appear I always thought this maybe MM if WW falls in the Child Timeline.

 

[Locke]

I've seen this theory come up at ZI, and I almost want to believe it. It eliminates just about every other contradiction besides those related to the FSS and unovoidable ones between confirmed (pre/se)quels. But I'm unwilling to accept the "what-if" type of timeline split. There's no evidence that hints to such a structure. Looking at the period in [our] time during which this would have been added:

          -- LttP/LA -- LoZ/AoL
1999: OoT
         /MM

          -- WW
2002: OoT
         /MM
(?LttP/LA -- LoZ/AoL?)

Yes, one could assume that the originals kept their place on the AT parallel with WW, inserting a new version of the SW to go alongside OoT. But it's just as easy to insert this new account of the SW (and by extention the 2D games) somewhere else, like on the CT, or to say that the first four games are no longer connected to the main timeline at all.

I may not have understood your theory the way you would have liked, but if this second split is a purely in-universe timeline event, I have several questions keeping me from accepting it:
1. What happened on LttP's AT when Zelda used the ocarina at the end of OoT? Did it just not do anything so she gave up without giving back his childhood?
2. If she didn't even try to send him back, what led to this decision? If the split was created at this point then there would be no alternate scenario that would lead to her making a different decision. (Here I'm assuming that given all things being the same, a person would make the same decision.)
3. If the split happened before the end of OoT in order to affect Zelda's decision, what caused it?
The last one could somehow lead into your comment about SS, but we'd need to see more before we could consider that solution.

I used to be one of those who separated the SW from OoT, but I'm trying to find a way to bring them back together. I haven't put too much thought into it, but I'd probably put myself somewhere between your theory and Lex's theory. LttP is on its own AT separate from WW, but they're not connected in an in-universe sense, only in the sense that they're both sequels to OoT. The only way to connect them in-universe is using a "what-if" split which I can't accept or adding a fanfic split which is far from being logically sound; on the other hand I think Lex goes a little too far in separating all the arcs as being different stories told in the same universe. I can't say I would fully support my view either yet, but for now I think it's the best I can do until we learn more about the relationship between these games.

 

[ottobot]

I feel that while your points for the split are good, the reason the main split works is because OoT has obvious messing with time. i think i makes more sense if you put it on the timeline an assume that the trapping of ganon in the SR happened on the CT too. I like to think of it as a version of the sage's tale from TP that has been warped over time. However, what's stopping ALttP and LA from coming on the AT, but before WW. just because WW's backstory is referring to OoT doesn't mean that ALttP couldn't already have happened.

 

[DuckNoises]

This is an idea I've seen before, and it usually comes from a misunderstanding surrounding the WW introduction.
In order for a timeline split to have occurred in between TWW and OoT, there would have to be some sort of time travel mechanism for the timeline to be split in such a fashion. Although it can be argued that there are an infinite number of splits at any given point, not all of the splits are relevant; time travel is what usually makes these relevant, in the sense that the Child Timeline is relevant because an alternate reality is created where the Hero of Time does not remove the Master Sword.

More importantly, though, is that the Triforce is whole in ALttP (as you mentioned), but it is broken at the end of OoT on the Adult Timeline. We know this because Ganondorf tries to get all the Triforce fragments in TWW. If ALttP occurs between OoT and TWW, how was the Triforce brought back together by the time of ALttP? Secondly, in TWW's opening cinematic, it references that no hero appeared; this is because the Hero of Time could not return to the Adult Timeline because he could not willingly let that much suffering to befall so many people again, with him knowing what would happen. No one had anticipated that Ganondorf would break free of the Seal of the Seven Sages, and the people had no Hero, so they prayed to the Gods for divine intervention. The Gods flooded Hyrule to smite Ganondorf, creating the Great Ocean.
Taking all that into account, I don't understand how ALttP can occur in a flooded Hyrule in between OoT and TWW.

I may have misinterpreted your post, and you may have been referring to a three-way split occurring after OoT. That is much more plausible, and solves many issues, but there is still the concern of what it was that actually caused a third split. It would have to be something very major, and it would have to do with altering reality or time.

We may also say that in this alternate OoT Ganon got all the three pieces of the Triforce, so that's why he seem to have it all in ALttP (but hey, to me he doesn't, it was splitted but nobody knew it)

Ganondorf obtains the Triforce whole during the Imprisoning War, which is explained in the introduction of ALttP. It was still in the Sacred Realm, which Ganondorf turned into the Dark World when he used the Triforce to grant his wish and control the Sacred Realm, because Ganondorf's intentions were not pure.

 

[Xixor]

OoT was originally meant to be the backstory in ALttP. Then WW was meant to be a sequel to OoT.

It's pretty simple actually. Nintendo messed up, and left us to clean up their mess. Your timeline is actually the current timeline I have right now:

................/--(WW/PH--(LA?)--ST--MC--FS/FSA) or /--(ALttP/OoX)
(SS?)--OoT
................\MM--TP--LoZ/AoL

^Probably has a hundred errors, but every timeline does.

 

[athenian200]

I don't see any real reason why ALttP couldn't be on the Child Timeline any time after MM. OoT is still the prequel to ALttP... it's just that WW is on the adult timeline, thus it also comes after OoT.

Yes, the part about a battle with Ganon might not make sense, but the Imprisoning War wouldn't fit on the Adult timeline. Perhaps parts of the story need to be retconned or something.

 

[Kombatgod]

Well, guys, thanks for your inputs!
I forgot to say one thing: This is not my favourite theory, I mean the one that I'd place in my signature, it's just a theory I came up with while writing a document about studying the timeline and checking every possible solution...
I also believe one of the most probable to be

..................../--FS/FSA--LttP/OoX/LA--TLoZ/AoL--WW/PH--ST
SS--MC--OoT
....................\MM--TP

But I also like to place the Oracles after AoL...
So I'm not saying that other solutions are not right... As I said something happened anyway between OoT and WW, so I don't think they tought of making it a direct sequel...
Anyway the theory that I consider wrong is to place ALttP in the CT. Because if you say that something almost identical happened in both timelines, then what's the difference between them? The two timelines have to be different, or else you are actually considering them the same one, and you're still giving credit to my thoeory!
Also if you say that a thousand years afterthe end of a game, everybody reborns and the story repeats itself, then you're not even making a timeline, you're considering every saga a story of its own. (in fact I also don't like the theory of the FSS happening whole at the beginning or at the end of the timeline...)

 

[DekuNut]

2. If she didn't even try to send him back, what led to this decision? If the split was created at this point then there would be no alternate scenario that would lead to her making a different decision. (Here I'm assuming that given all things being the same, a person would make the same decision.)

What if Link talked hr out of sending him back? Link may be very persuasive, we don't know.

there would have to be some sort of time travel mechanism for the timeline to be split in such a fashion.

What if the Ocarina didn't work and sent him not only to a different time (in the future), but also the "other reality". The reason Zelda introduced herself to Link in ALttP is because this is a new Zelda.

 

[Locke]

What if Link talked hr out of sending him back? Link may be very persuasive, we don't know.

The same question still applies: What led to Link's decision to dissuade Zelda? The timeline must have split earlier in order to lead to different circumstances. Following this logic recursively, we end up all the way at the beginning of time (if such a thing exists) still disconnected from the 'original' timeline. Extending this to all the other "what if" scenarios, we get an infinite series of parallel, yet disconnected timelines. One cannot possibly have an effect on the other, so there's no use trying to make connections between them.

 

[DekuNut]

The same question still applies: What led to Link's decision to dissuade Zelda?

Many people have seen this in different games, including OoT, but there seems to be some kind of... relationship between the two. What if Link wanted to stay with Zelda. Either that, or Link was afraid that Ganondorf's current bond wasn't enough.

Extending this to all the other "what if" scenarios, we get an infinite series of parallel, yet disconnected timelines.

I'm not trying to say that it's a "what if" scenario. I'm trying to say that this may have actually happened in the timeline.

 

[Locke]

Many people have seen this in different games, including OoT, but there seems to be some kind of... relationship between the two. What if Link wanted to stay with Zelda. Either that, or Link was afraid that Ganondorf's current bond wasn't enough.

What I'm asking is how is there one scenario where Link is sent back and one where he isn't? If he did dissuade Zelda in one scenario, then what stopped him in the 'real' AT? The timeline must have split by some other means in order for these two separate decisions to be made.

 

[DekuNut]

...Point taken... DekuNut rests until further notice.