The Hero's Shade...

[Ventus]

I got more inspiration from this by watching ZD Mailbag (#60 I believe, it's the newest one).


In Skyward Sword, we have several video clips (or maybe only one) that shows Link doing the Ending Blow and what appears to be a Shield Bash (or he may simply be wielding his shield, I don't know). Even in Ocarina of Time3D, there hasn't been any mention, from Nintendo, Mases, anyone at any of the other fansites even about skills in general, so I assume that OoT3D is still basic Ocarina of Time but with a major facelift.

And, that would deprive any accountability from the theory that the Hero's Shade is the Hero of Time, because again no where in OoT/3D or Majora's Mask do "hidden skills" make an apperance. Skyward Sword's Link on the other hand, seems to have these skills already learned and mastered. That brings me to the point that it's more possible for the Hero's Shade to actually be Skyward Sword Link, as Skyloft was pretty great looking, and we can only assume that after the evils were removed from the world below that that place was the "Hyrule of yore". I realize that a few missing features in a game isn't concrete evidence to disprove a theory, but it's a good enough start, correct? What are your thoughts on this? (I know this is a wall of redundant text)

 

[DuckNoises]

The hidden skills are a gameplay mechanic; one hero having used them or not in any game isn't sufficient evidence to prove that it is the Hero's Shade. These combo moves that we have seen in TP (and probably SS) are gameplay elements first and foremost, and I can't think of any situations where the abilities themselves are integral to the storyline or theory.

 

[JuicieJ]

It's like Axle said. You don't need training to jump up and stab an enemy. The Ending Blow is also taken from one of WW Link's parry attacks. So, that's not really significant. He can also do a Shield Bash in SS. The first four Hidden Skills aren't bloodline skills, anyway. Only the Mortal Draw, Jump Strike, and Great Spin were the secret skills. If the Hero's Shade is going to be any Link (which he is), it'd be the Hero of Time. Now, the Hero's Shade actually appears to be more of some kind of remnant of the HoT's spirit rather than his spirit itself. Kind of like the ghosts in Harry Potter. (That's just what it seems like to me.) But it's obviously hinted at that he's the Hero of Time. He says he accepted life as the hero and that Link is in his bloodline (constantly). Axle says that could be a "don't let this leave your bloodline" thing, but he says "our bloodline" not "our bloodlines". That means an ancestor and descendant. And if he accepted life as the hero, than he was Link. No other person is ever the hero in The Legend of Zelda. Never. Just like Zelda's always the Princess. The Howling Stones (while not important to the story) also have three songs from OoT and MM: The Song of Healing, the Requiem of Spirit, and the Prelude of Light. Those were songs Link from the 64 games learned, i.e. the Hero of Time. With all that, it's pretty much undeniable that the Hero's Shade is (at least some kind of remnant of) the Hero of Time. It's really not debatable, as Nintendo did everything but state it. I'm not using theory, here, I'm using in-game facts.

 

[linebyline]

I'm not sure that the reference to the bloodline requires being a direct descendant. After all, Link's uncle in LTTP talks about "our bloodline" (when he says that the sword spin was handed down). Also, in WW, the King of Red Lions tells Jabun that WW Link isn't related to the Hero of Time, but Grandma says that the Hylian Shield has been passed down in their family, which doesn't really prove anything but it suggests (to me, at least) the possibility of a common ancestor.

Something I think I remember reading a few years ago, around the time I first started getting into Zelda fandom, was that Link had to be in the bloodline of the Hylian Knights. But I can't remember a source for that. Maybe it was something someone made up, or something I just imagined. *sigh* Oh well.

I also don't think it's obvious that the Shade is OoT Link. Obviously a Link, yes, but not necessarily that one.

I don't think the howling stones music sources do much to make your point; Zelda's lullaby was also the theme of all the maidens (including Zelda) in LttP, and (if you kinda squint your ears) the TP version of the Kakariko Village theme sounds like the pirate ship theme in WW. For that matter, FSA had a dark world and it used the Dark World theme from LttP--but for Frozen Hyrule, not the dark world segments or the level entitled "The Dark World." I think most of the reused music in the games is just an Easter egg.

I'm also not convinced that having a similar moveset makes a strong case for the Shade's identity. After all, WW Link has the parry attack, which has variations that strongly resemble Helm Splitter and (Oh, I forget the name...) the one that involves rolling around behind the enemy. But it can't possibly be WW link, because even if you don't buy into the split timeline, Spirit Tracks makes it pretty clear that TP would have to be before WW.

(As an aside: It seems to me Orca, who taught Link the parry attack, has some connection to the Hylian Knights, what with the Knights' Crests, but I don't think he's related to Link. I'm not sure if that's relevant.)

 

[Ventus]

It's a gameplay mechanic, yes, but it isn't present in OoT3D, which is relatively new. I understand OoT3D is just a facelift rather than a remake, so it isn't the best of evidence, but it's still there. And, I have yet to see or hear of the HoT doing a Great Spin, Jump Strike, or Mortal Draw. Granted the second tier Spin Attack is more like a GS, but it doesn't do anything more but give extra range. And that isn't even changed in the 3D facelift of OoT.

IAnd if he accepted life as the hero, than he was Link. No other person is ever the hero in The Legend of Zelda.

Of course no one is ever the hero but Link. That doesn't mean anything at all, because there were clearly multiple Links in the history of Zelda. I can easily say right now, the Link in SS is going to be a hero. Cleansing a world below will even make you a legend. Your reference to the Howling Stones is hard evidence against the theory, but I can easily say that Nintendo didn't have any songs that will appear in SS at the time of development. That, and the Shade as time went on may not have remembered the songs he specifically learned, and the songs themselves could just be gameplay mechanics for nostalgia. But, assuming it actually means something then those songs alone destroy my theory. :O

linebyline, Link in ALttP is of the bloodline of the Hylian Knights (probably started by TP Link?), I'm not sure for OoT Link or anyone else. Orca isn't related to Link, but he wants the crests because great swordsmen used to have them (I think he said something about him and Sturgeon collecting them when they were young?)

 

[Cardkeeper]

We have to remember this: The whole creation of these 'moves' were born in TP, so it's no wonder Nintendo reused them in SS. The lack of moves in OoT disproves nothing, because it wasn't a blatent lack of the moves themselves, they simply didn't exist yet. Besides, it's perfectly okay to assume the Hero's Shade is the OoT Link and still let SS Link know the moves, it comes before OoT after all, right? Also there's more clues to conclude the Hero's Shade is OoT/MM Link, like the fact he has the Sword and Mirror Shield Link was wearing at the end of MM, which by many is considered to be the game right before TP, which takes place a few centuries afterward. My opinion is that OoT/MM Link == Hero's Shade. Just my two cents.

 

[Locke]

Also there's more clues to conclude the Hero's Shade is OoT/MM Link, like the fact he has the Sword and Mirror Shield Link was wearing at the end of MM, which by many is considered to be the game right before TP, which takes place a few centuries afterward.

This is blatantly incorrect. Look at the first few images in my blog post on the subject. The evidence tying the Hero's Shade to the HoT is far from strong. Anything that could be said about the HoT could also be said of a previous hero. In the past I've strongly held that the hero's shade is the HoT strictly following Ockham's razor. But now that there is more than one hero before TP, I'm open to contrary evidence. So far I haven't seen quite enough to merit any change though. Just as the Sheikah reference in the howling stones could potentially be attributed to SS-Link and the songs could mean nothing, the HoT may have learned the hidden skills later in life, or they could mean nothing.

 

[JuicieJ]

I'm not sure that the reference to the bloodline requires being a direct descendant. After all, Link's uncle in LTTP talks about "our bloodline" (when he says that the sword spin was handed down). Also, in WW, the King of Red Lions tells Jabun that WW Link isn't related to the Hero of Time, but Grandma says that the Hylian Shield has been passed down in their family, which doesn't really prove anything but it suggests (to me, at least) the possibility of a common ancestor.

It's his uncle, though. His father's brother. Therefore they're in the same bloodline. That argument has no merit, as Link's father also would have known this technique.

Something I think I remember reading a few years ago, around the time I first started getting into Zelda fandom, was that Link had to be in the bloodline of the Hylian Knights. But I can't remember a source for that. Maybe it was something someone made up, or something I just imagined. *sigh* Oh well.

That's from A Link to the Past. Again, an old writing that has been written over by Link being a descendant of the previous Hero. Besides, Link would have been one of the ones fighting in the Seal War, so it could have been obscured by time that he was just a knight, as the tale became legend.

II also don't think it's obvious that the Shade is OoT Link. Obviously a Link, yes, but not necessarily that one.

There's really no other option due to the hints they gave, which I went over in my first post here.

I don't think the howling stones music sources do much to make your point; Zelda's lullaby was also the theme of all the maidens (including Zelda) in LttP, and (if you kinda squint your ears) the TP version of the Kakariko Village theme sounds like the pirate ship theme in WW. For that matter, FSA had a dark world and it used the Dark World theme from LttP--but for Frozen Hyrule, not the dark world segments or the level entitled "The Dark World." I think most of the reused music in the games is just an Easter egg.

(The Kakariko theme is Windfall Island.) Anyway, ALttP would come after TP in the canon. Therefore that really doesn't have any merit. The Howling Stone songs are one of the many hints that the Hero's Shade is the Hero of Time. Notice I said hints.

I'm also not convinced that having a similar moveset makes a strong case for the Shade's identity. After all, WW Link has the parry attack, which has variations that strongly resemble Helm Splitter and (Oh, I forget the name...) the one that involves rolling around behind the enemy. But it can't possibly be WW link, because even if you don't buy into the split timeline, Spirit Tracks makes it pretty clear that TP would have to be before WW.

Again, the first four Hidden Skills aren't secret skills. They can be learned by anyone. They didn't become bloodline skills in secrecy until the Mortal Draw. I went over that very clearly.

(As an aside: It seems to me Orca, who taught Link the parry attack, has some connection to the Hylian Knights, what with the Knights' Crests, but I don't think he's related to Link. I'm not sure if that's relevant.)

Orca also didn't mention anything about bloodline stuff. And, again, those parry skills aren't secret.

 

[Cardkeeper]

Personally, I do not hold an opinion on Timelines because assumptions don't sit right with me. Personally, I do understand that SS Link could be the Hero's Shade, but why dispell the fact that his equipment does seem to match that of MM Link? Or if its the fact that TP could come after MM that you're disagreeing with, that too makes sense. When Young Zelda/Link told the King of Gannondorf's intentions, he was sent to be killed, but when they couldn't they locked him in the Twilight realm. A few centuries later (like I said above), he finally finds an escape and the events of Twilight Princess unfold. Other than the fact that he knows some of the Shade's moves, is there any evidence supporting the idea that he is the SS Link? We'll probably not know until SS is released, but I'm interested to see your response.

 

[Squirrel]

I don't think that the hero's shade is any Link. Look at his clothes! Totally different. He's also not holding any of the swords that any Link ever uses.
That stuff could just mean that Hero's Shade is Link when he's a lot older: 20-30

The only problem is, Link is fully grown in the game, but Hero's Shade is about 2 feet taller than TP Link who is the same height as all the other adult Links.
Hero's Shade is big. I think he's someone way back in Link's family tree but not a previous Link.

 

[My Dear Epona]

I don't think that the hero's shade is any Link. Look at his clothes! Totally different. He's also not holding any of the swords that any Link ever uses.
That stuff could just mean that Hero's Shade is Link when he's a lot older: 20-30

The only problem is, Link is fully grown in the game, but Hero's Shade is about 2 feet taller than TP Link who is the same height as all the other adult Links.
Hero's Shade is big. I think he's someone way back in Link's family tree but not a previous Link.

Remember that if you get lost in the lost woods you become a stalfos! after MM link went back to the woods, and maybe he got lost and became a special kind of
stalfos wich would explain his looks, and he IS wearing a sword used by oot link before, and thats the gilded sword

 

[Cardkeeper]

But it doesn't make sense to have that happen. What happens to Link's bloodline if he's a Stalfos? What about Epona? And why would he turn into a Stalfos? Kids turn into Skull Kids.

 

[Locke]

he IS wearing a sword used by oot link before, and thats the gilded sword

That looks nothing like the Gilded Sword. If I could find the person who started that lie...

Edit: As I suspected, it was ocarinahero10. He even shows the swords side-by-side in his video. He's obviously lying through his teeth because they look nothing alike. When he says he did his research at the beginning of the video, he means he thought really hard about what false evidence he could concoct to make him sound smarter than you.

But it doesn't make sense to have that happen. What happens to Link's bloodline if he's a Stalfos? What about Epona? And why would he turn into a Stalfos? Kids turn into Skull Kids.

He was an adult at the time. That means there's plenty of time for other things to happen.

 

[JuicieJ]

I don't think that the hero's shade is any Link. Look at his clothes! Totally different. He's also not holding any of the swords that any Link ever uses.
That stuff could just mean that Hero's Shade is Link when he's a lot older: 20-30

The only problem is, Link is fully grown in the game, but Hero's Shade is about 2 feet taller than TP Link who is the same height as all the other adult Links.
Hero's Shade is big. I think he's someone way back in Link's family tree but not a previous Link.

Ok, here's what you're not understanding. The Stalfos form is not the Hero's Shade's true form. The wolf is. He could tranform into any shape he wanted to. A Stalfos is just the best one to turn into so Link wouldn't hold back. I don't think the Hero's Shade is actually the HoT's spirit, either. That's just my opinion (as all of this is), but the word "shade" and the fact that his form is a wolf and that he doesn't seem like an actual spirit to me... Anyway, it just seems like some kind of remnant of the HoT, or something rather than a spirit.

That looks nothing like the Gilded Sword. If I could find the person who started that lie...

Yeah, I don't understand that one, either. People saying that he has the MM Mirror Shield, too...

Remember that if you get lost in the lost woods you become a stalfos! after MM link went back to the woods, and maybe he got lost and became a special kind of
stalfos wich would explain his looks, and he IS wearing a sword used by oot link before, and thats the gilded sword

Link wouldn't have gotten lost in the Lost Woods. That's stupid. Again, the form is the wolf, not the Stalfos. Plus, the Guilded Sword was an optional upgrade, so it wouldn't have been part of the story. Same thing with the Mirror Shield, as that's just an item for puzzles, which wouldn't be in the actual legend.

He was an adult at the time. That means there's plenty of time for other things to happen.

Yeah, like living a normal life and not going back into the Lost Woods. (IF he was even in the Lost Woods in MM. Probably, as the Skull Kid was there, but there are some people with that "pics or it didn't happen" mentality, so, I had to say that.)

 

[Cardkeeper]

How is he an adult? MM Link is a child at the end of the game when he returns to the lost woods. The bloodline and Epona questions still stand as well. It just doesn't make sense.

EDIT: After reading JuicyJ's above post, if you mean that he grew up, had kids with Malon or whoever, then returned for some reason and then got lost, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. For one, why would he return in the first place? And even if he did, do you really think after going through there so many times he would get lost to the point he died in there? There's no way.