Spoiler The Four Swords Dilemma

[Austin]

One of the most controversial games in Legend of Zelda are the Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures. When first released these games weren't even acknowledge by most Zelda fans. Mostly because Four Swords wasn't playable without multiple people, who owned the game and GBA. The negative view of these games reached its peak when Miyamoto suggesting that they were the first games in the Zelda time line. At this point Four Swords gathered large criticism with the four Links, and the "beginning of time line" was only making things worse. However, I have a proposition that can help lessen the criticism. The four Links and the beginning of the time line both make a lot of sense with my proposition. This proposition is what I call the The Four Swords Dilemma.

I'm going to start off with TFS (The Four Swords and The Four Swords Adventures) as being part of a looped time line. In essence TFS is both the first and last game in the time line. If we were to ignore the time line as date/time occurrences. That is we don't care about about organizing the games by when they happen date/time wise, but eventual wise. I'm going to use Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask to explain this idea. If we look at these two games and organize them by a date/time occurrences. We would get: OoT Child -> MM -> OoT Adult. However if we organize them as event occurrences. We would get: OoT Child -> OoT Adult -> MM. I would like to add special note about organizing them by event wise, that we have to use it in Link's perspective. This would be totally different for the other characters we see through out Hyrule/Termina because they are unable to time travel. Also, we play as Link, so we can only know/see what he does.

The big point in understanding why TFS is considered the first in the time line is that it is the first game date/time wise. That is, if it had some numerical date, this date would be earlier then any other Zelda games. For example, if we day OoT was 1800, then TFS could be 1700 (1700 < 1800). However, TFS has to be the last event wise. That is our various Links did their own adventures, fought various bosses, etc. This is where we will see the dilemma with TFS's time line placement. For my proposition, what happens between the other games doesn't matter, and if even if I tried, this thread would become really big fast.

I see two consequences coming from this. One is that TFS creates a ringed time line, or TFS creates a split. The only difference between the two is that after TFS occurs, Hyrule either changes dramatically or it stays the same. If Hyrule changes, this creates a time line split. The different Zelda games may/may not occur, and Hyrule isn't the same. If Hyrule stays the same, then the other Zelda games will occur, and then TFS will also occur again.

Finally, bringing up the subject of the four Links. Now that I've explained that TFS happened event wise after all the other Zelda games. What if each of the different Links was a hero of Hyrule. There are over 15 games and about 11 different Links who existed through Hyrule. We know that there are several instruments/tools that lets our various hero's to time travel. We have the Ocarina of Time, Master Sword, and the Oracle of Ages. These objects can last through time, and our various hero's gain access to them. What is keeping them from going back to an earlier moment in time? Nothing! They're hero's, they're going to do anything they need to save Hyrule. This being said, it is not impossible for 4 different Links to each travel back in time to a point where they can save Hyrule once and for all.

Finally, I'm going to bring up one last point. TFS was named The Four swords, not the Four Hero's, or Four Links. Ask any Zelda fan what the main sword is for Legend of Zelda, and they probably will say the Master Sword. However, the Master Sword isn't the only sword in LoZ. We have the Great Fairy Sword, Gilded Sword, Phantom Sword, Lokomo Sword, etc. Each of these swords has a unique power/ability. Each of the different Links (from the different games) would have a unique sword, and use the combined strength to save Hyrule.

Now, I'm curious to know what you guys think. Do you agree or disagree? Why? Is there stuff you would add or remove? If you could choose 4 swords from 4 games, which ones would you pick and why? I didn't commented on the 4 swords I would pic as my thread was already big enough, and I wanted to get opinions first, before replying to it.

Notice!
I've removed the following line and replaced it. From various feedback from users, I've learned that this line wasn't very accurate, and need to be re-written.

We also know that Link has the ability to time travel.

 

[DuckNoises]

If Hyrule stays the same, then the other Zelda games will occur, and then TFS will also occur again.

Hyrule changes all the time (practically every game), and it would be impossible for FS and FSA adventures to repeatedly occur. In FSA, Ganondorf obtains the Trident of Power by betraying the Gerudo. This cannot happen before OoT, because he is king of the Gerudo, and he is revered by Gerudo society. Not to mention that Ganon is sealed in the Four Sword at the end of FSA, so then he would be sealed away before games where he was never sealed. This goes against in-game evidence, because Ganondorf was not sealed in an adventure prior to every game. There are also games where Ganon is killed (and not resurrected), and therefore FSA cannot occur after those games.

FSA cannot occur between games that are confirmed sequels or confirmed sections of the timeline. At the very least, FS/FSA cannot occur between:

• OoT and TWW
• OoT and MM
• OoT, MM, and TP
• ALttP and LA, +/- OoX in between or afterward
• Anytime after TWW, including TWW and PH, and PH and ST
• LoZ and AoL

Also, FS and FSA have to come after TMC in some regard, due to the fact that this game provides the origins of Vaati and where Vaati is first sealed.

Finally, bringing up the subject of the four Links. Now that I've explained that TFS happened event wise after all the other Zelda games. What if each of the different Links was a hero of Hyrule. There are over 15 games and about 11 different Links who existed through Hyrule. We also know that Link has the ability to time travel. What is keeping them from going back to an earlier moment in time? Nothing! They're hero's, they're going to do anything they need to save Hyrule. This being said, it is not impossible for 4 different Links to each travel back in time to a point where they can save Hyrule once and for all.

This is impossible for many, many reasons. First and foremost, the only hero who can travel back in time is the Hero of Time -- end of story. Even he can't travel back in time without serious repercussions; this would cause a split every time Link travels back in time.

Here is what I find to be the best example of in-game evidence regarding time travel in Zelda:

I think the single best explanations of time travel in the Zelda games are in the games themselves. The most effective of which, I feel, comes from Sheik in OoT:

This one's from Sheik before entering the Spirit Temple:

Past, present, future...
The Master Sword is a ship with
which you can sail upstream and
downstream through time's river...
The port for that ship is in the
Temple of Time...
To restore the Desert Colossus
and enter the Spirit Temple, you
must travel back through time's
flow...

I don't think this is just a pretty simile for the sake of sounding profound, I think this is actually a very brilliant and eloquent hint at the Zelda timeline put in by the writers.

The OoT Master Sword can travel forward to the specific point in time where the Hero of Time is old enough to wield it, so 7 years from when Link pulled it out of its pedestal ("downstream"). It can be put back in, and send you straight back, heading "upstream" the river of time. The Master Sword isn't that great a boat for time travel, as you can see.

The Ocarina of Time, however, can theoretically send you both upstream and downstream this river, but not without altering reality. In Majora's Mask, if we start on day one, and Link sends himself forward in time to -- let's say, day two, whatever he would have done on day one (had he not used the Ocarina) would never have happened, because he wasn't there to do it for most of day one, which was a different reality. That's why you have to beat the Temple bosses again to fix Termina's primary problems in every possible reality that you need those problems to be fixed in to proceed.
In the terms of Sheik's analogy, you would need to send something downstream at a given point in the river to be able to retrieve it later further down the stream. If you never put it in the river in the first place, it wouldn't be there later for you to pick up. Every different reality would be a fork in the river (similar to the split timeline).

Now, this was mostly about the time travel in Majora's Mask, but it applies everywhere else. If Link travels back in time, it would create a split in the timeline. The more splits occur, the harder and harder it will become to get back into the desired time period. If such an event were to occur, there would be no cyclical events because all of the games would eventually become isolated by new and different events occurring based on why Link went back in time, and what happens in the reality that Link left by traveling back in time. Some people have argued that when Link goes back in time, he is "rewinding" time, and he may very well be, but there is no evidence that disproves that the reality and time he just left does not continue forward. This results in a timeline that becomes increasingly wider and wider with splits as it goes on. Due to the nature of the time travel that you've proposed, Justin, most of the events in the future would not occur if one of the Links goes back in time to save a different time period. Depending on their success in that time period, if any other Link is on the same branch of that timeline directly in the future, it is quite likely that the events of one Link saving an earlier time period would have a colossal chain reaction on all games afterward, horrendously butchering the space-time continuum, and probably causing the other Links to cease to exist. In fact, if the same Link saves Hyrule in, say, the year 1847, and then, as a result of saving Hyrule in 1847, it causes a series of events in which he would be required to go back in time to save Hyrule in say, 1681. When he saves Hyrule in the year 1681, he dramatically alters the future, causing a future world in 1847 that may not require saving or may not require him to travel back in time, he would cease to exist. This is because he prevented himself from being able to travel back in time in the future, which is his reason for existing in the past, and if the past changes the future to the point where it is impossible that he could have reached the past, then he can't exist in the past and therefore ceases to exist.
Needless to say, it would be impossible for any of this to continue without one of the Links causing an abhorrent mess in the space-time continuum wherein they cause one of each other to stop existing.

 

[Austin]

Hyrule changes all the time (practically every game), and it would be impossible for FS and FSA adventures to repeatedly occur. In FSA, Ganondorf obtains the Trident of Power by betraying the Gerudo. This cannot happen before OoT, because he is king of the Gerudo, and he is revered by Gerudo society. Not to mention that Ganon is sealed in the Four Sword at the end of FSA, so then he would be sealed away before games where he was never sealed. This goes against in-game evidence, because Ganondorf was not sealed in an adventure prior to every game. There are also games where Ganon is killed (and not resurrected), and therefore FSA cannot occur after those games.

FSA cannot occur between games that are confirmed sequels or confirmed sections of the timeline. At the very least, FS/FSA cannot occur between:

• OoT and TWW
• OoT and MM
• OoT, MM, and TP
• ALttP and LA, +/- OoX in between or afterward
• Anytime after TWW, including TWW and PH, and PH and ST
• LoZ and AoL

Also, FS and FSA have to come after TMC in some regard, due to the fact that this game provides the origins of Vaati and where Vaati is first sealed.

I agree, and I never mentioned putting the TFS between any two games. However, I don't agree to say that they can never loop. I want to apologize for not explaining this in better detail in my thread. I'm going to use the Grandpa Paradox (not to be confused with the Grandfather paradox) to explain this. I know this isn't the most orthodox explanation, but it is the easiest to explain.

The Grandpa paradox occurs that you go back in time, kill your original grandpa, and then mate with your grandma. In the end you pretty much become your grandpa. You don't stay back in time with your grandma, and she thinks you (and your original grandpa) passed away. You then were raised knowing this, and didn't know otherwise. The loop in simple happens when your grandma has your parent, they have you, and then you go back in time, and kill yourself. Repeat. The ringed time line isn't the strongest of the two, nor my favorite.

The second (split) says that, after TFS event happens, Hyrule changes, and there is the possibility of none of the games happening, or they change slightly. I'm going to use Back to The Future to explain this. Marty and Doc go back in time, to where his parents are in high school. Marty teaches his dad to fight off his bully. This in hand changed the future life of Marty. His dad become rich and successful versus being bullied previously. If you haven't seen the movie, here a video explaining this.

This is impossible for many, many reasons. First and foremost, the only hero who can travel back in time is the Hero of Time -- end of story. Even he can't travel back in time without serious repercussions; this would cause a split every time Link travels back in time.

Not end of story. Link is able to time travel using the ocarina and Master Sword. Two tools that existed passed OoT and MM. In fact, we see it 100's of years past them in Wind Waker. When Link pulls the sword out of the pedestal, he revives Hyrule. This can be thought similar to MM's rewinding time mechanism. There also is the Oracle of Ages, which allowed our hand-held Link to Time travel. My final point is that its the tool/instrument that lets our hero time travel, not the specific Link himself. This being said, the tools/instruments can be passed on from hero to hero. I even went so far to explain how these tools/instruments work in my Multi-Dimensional Theory.

Here is what I find to be the best example of in-game evidence regarding time travel in Zelda:
Now, this was mostly about the time travel in Majora's Mask, but it applies everywhere else. If Link travels back in time, it would create a split in the timeline. The more splits occur, the harder and harder it will become to get back into the desired time period. If such an event were to occur, thas occurring based on why Link went back in time, and what happens in the reality that Link left by traveling back in time. Some people have argued that when Link goes back in time, he is "rewinding" time, and he may very well be, but there is no evidence that disproves that the reality and time he just left does not continue forward. This results in a timeline that becomes increasingly wider and wider with splits as it goes on. Due to the nature of the time travel that you've proposed, Justin, most of the events in the future would not occur if one of the Links goes back in time to save a different time period. Depending on their success in that time period, if any other Link is on the same branch of that timeline directly in the future, it is quite likely that the events of one Link saving an earlier time period would have a colossal chain reaction on all games afterward, horrendously butchering the space-time continuum, and probably causing the other Links to cease to exist. In fact, if the same Link saves Hyrule in, say, the year 1847, and then, as a result of saving Hyrule in 1847, it causes a series of events in which he would be required to go back in time to save Hyrule in say, 1681. When he saves Hyrule in the year 1681, he dramatically alters the future, causing a future world in 1847 that may not require saving or may not require him to travel back in time, he would cease to exist. This is because he prevented himself from being able to travel back in time in the future, which is his reason for existing in the past, and if the past changes the future to the point where it is impossible that he could have reached the past, then he can't exist in the past and therefore ceases to exist.
Needless to say, it would be impossible for any of this to continue without one of the Links causing an abhorrent mess in the space-time continuum wherein they cause one of each other to stop existing.

This brought me a good memory of another thread I made a long time ago. My Paradox Theory explains the possibility of having lots of different time line splits and parallel time lines. You're absolutely right about Hyrule is able to changes through time, and every new hero will have to deal with the consequences of the previous. However, I'm not dipping my feet in this pool with this theory. My theory just relies on the fact of a hero existing. It doesn't rely on what he has to save, and what Hyrule is like.

That being said, lets say that one of our Four Swords Link is Link from MM (as its the same link from OoT). He goes back to TFS date/time, and he then meets 3 other Links. Each Link is from a different period of time (and possibly have their own sword). My theory relies on the fact, after he goes back in time to this earlier time (TFS era), Hyrule continues and new heroes come and go. It doesn't rely on what happens to Hyrule. Like you said, it is possible it can be tangled with time lines, and be messed up Space-Time wise. Then lets say, one of these new hero's also goes back to the same date/time. He would meet our OoT/MM Link and the other 2. Neither Link had to wait for the others because they all travel to one single date/time.

If you recall my explanation organizing events by date/time or event wise occurrence, and we try to explain these time traveling events event-wise occurrences. Then we could say that the Links after OoT/MM Link travel back after he did. They had to wait years till they were born, save Hyrule, and then they can go time travel to TFS era.

 

[Locke]

The negative view of these games reached its peak when Miyamoto suggesting that they were the first games in the Zelda time line.

That was Aonuma if my memory serves me correctly.

We also know that Link has the ability to time travel. What is keeping them from going back to an earlier moment in time? Nothing!

False. The Ocarina of Time has power over time. Even then, it has only been shown to work with Zelda's magic or when the Goddess of Time is aiding him. Also, we are already told that one Link was split into four through the power of the Four Sword. There is no need to create a new story.
edit: okay, forgot about OoA. The MS/PoT actually does not have direct power over time. It can only affect how one experiences it.

Finally, I'm going to bring up one last point. TFS was named The Four swords, not the Four Hero's, or Four Links. Ask any Zelda fan what the main sword is for Legend of Zelda, and they probably will say the Master Sword. However, the Master Sword isn't the only sword in LoZ. We have the Great Fairy Sword, Gilded Sword, Phantom Sword, Lokomo Sword, etc. Each of these swords has a unique power/ability. Each of the different Links (from the different games) would have a unique sword, and use the combined strength to save Hyrule.

I don't know why they called it Four Swords, but the sword Link uses is the Four Sword.

Remember, OoT's split was confusing to Aonuma and Miyamoto. What makes you think they'd come up with anything so compliacted? We already know the nature of the four links and the Four Sword, so anything else just contradicts that.

 

[DuckNoises]

The second (split) says that, after TFS event happens, Hyrule changes, and there is the possibility of none of the games happening, or they change slightly. I'm going to use Back to The Future to explain this. Marty and Doc go back in time, to where his parents are in high school. Marty teaches his dad to fight off his bully. This in hand changed the future life of Marty. His dad become rich and successful versus being bullied previously. If you haven't seen the movie, here a video explaining this.

There has been much debate already in this forum as to how "Back to the Future" time travel is not the kind present in Zelda. The possibility of something that ruins the space-time continuum causing one of the heroes to cease to exist is far, far more probable than an instance where it does not. Any time travel to before one's own time period has extremely severe ramifications. We have to remember that Back to The Future is not any kind of go-to handbook for all answers about time travel; it's a movie, and the nature of the time travel in the film is the way it is solely to serve as a plot device in the film because it's humourous. It is not in any way, shape, or form an appropriate answer to how time functions. It is similar to a certain theory regarding time travel, but that theory is not the same one as the one commonly utilized in the Zelda universe.

I agree, and I never mentioned putting the TFS between any two games. However, I don't agree to say that they can never loop. I want to apologize for not explaining this in better detail in my thread. I'm going to use the Grandpa Paradox (not to be confused with the Grandfather paradox) to explain this. I know this isn't the most orthodox explanation, but it is the easiest to explain.

The Grandpa paradox occurs that you go back in time, kill your original grandpa, and then mate with your grandma. In the end you pretty much become your grandpa. You don't stay back in time with your grandma, and she thinks you (and your original grandpa) passed away. You then were raised knowing this, and didn't know otherwise. The loop in simple happens when your grandma has your parent, they have you, and then you go back in time, and kill yourself. Repeat. The ringed time line isn't the strongest of the two, nor my favorite.

What does this explain? I don't see how you've addressed any of my points.

Not end of story. Link is able to time travel using the ocarina and Master Sword. Two tools that existed passed OoT and MM. In fact, we see it 100's of years past them in Wind Waker. When Link pulls the sword out of the pedestal, he revives Hyrule. This can be thought similar to MM's rewinding time mechanism. There also is the Oracle of Ages, which allowed our hand-held Link to Time travel. My final point is that its the tool/instrument that lets our hero time travel, not the specific Link himself. This being said, the tools/instruments can be passed on from hero to hero. I even went so far to explain how these tools/instruments work in my Multi-Dimensional Theory.

The Master Sword can only be used to travel through time by the Hero of Time and the Hero of Time alone, and even then it can only move into two direct places in the space-time continuum, as outlined in my first reply. There is no time travel in TWW; the Hyrule the Hero of Winds is transported to is underwater, where the rest of Old Hyrule was.
Only the Hero of Time knows the Song of Time, and knows how to use the Ocarina of Time, and therefore he is the only one who can use it. Even if another Hero were to acquire it, and somehow learn to use it, that Hero would be the only one able to use it, as it can only exist in one place at once.

 

[Austin]

There has been much debate already in this forum as to how "Back to the Future" time travel is not the kind present in Zelda. The possibility of something that ruins the space-time continuum causing one of the heroes to cease to exist is far, far more probable than an instance where it does not. Any time travel to before one's own time period has extremely severe ramifications. We have to remember that Back to The Future is not any kind of go-to handbook for all answers about time travel; it's a movie, and the nature of the time travel in the film is the way it is solely to serve as a plot device in the film because it's humourous. It is not in any way, shape, or form an appropriate answer to how time functions. It is similar to a certain theory regarding time travel, but that theory is not the same one as the one commonly utilized in the Zelda universe.

I'm not trying to use BTTF as a basis for my explanation. I only use it to help members understand my theory's concept. If we talk about space-time continuum, Special Relativity, and realistic time travel then neither Zelda Universe or BTTF could have time travel. Without getting into detail, Special Relativity says that time travel can only go into the future, and one would have to go near/fast as speed of light. However, I theorized a different mechanism for time travel for Hyrule/Zelda Universe, which I explained in my Multi-Dimensonal Theory. I also want to add a note that I treat Hyrule/Zelda Universe different then ours. I take in consideration of there existing different physics.

My Theory doesn't break the Hyrule/Zelda Universe's space-time continuum. It assumes that when a hero/Link time travels, it doesn't seize the existence of new hero's. Simply, it assumes that hero's will continue to come and go. As you've shown/said, this can be debatable. Especially, if we decide to bring up the Chaos Theory. Even with the Chaos Theory, if two splits in a time line happen, they may share a same future point. My theory relies on that possibility. The possibility may be low/high, but it exists. The theory only cares that this shared point has a hero.

What does this explain? I don't see how you've addressed any of my points.

It was my attempt to explain what a ringed time line would look like and react. This concept seems too difficult and unorthodox to continue it. Here is a picture to help out, hopefully.

The Master Sword can only be used to travel through time by the Hero of Time and the Hero of Time alone, and even then it can only move into two direct places in the space-time continuum, as outlined in my first reply. There is no time travel in TWW; the Hyrule the Hero of Winds is transported to is underwater, where the rest of Old Hyrule was.
Only the Hero of Time knows the Song of Time, and knows how to use the Ocarina of Time, and therefore he is the only one who can use it. Even if another Hero were to acquire it, and somehow learn to use it, that Hero would be the only one able to use it, as it can only exist in one place at once.

What about the Oracle of Ages?

Maybe time travel is a power for our hero's? I'm going to say that it is, and not all of them use this power. We sort of see time manipulation in Phantom Hourglass (to add a little more to my argument). You seem sort of determine to stick with Hero of Time, being the only hero who may time travel, and I'm sort of confused on why. Why is it so difficult to believe that our hero's (holder of the Triforce of Courage) to have the power to time travel. The Triforce of Power gave Ganondorf/Ganon power to take over a nation. I'm not sure about the Triforce of Wisdom, but there is a good chance it has a strong power.

 

[linebyline]

Personally, I'm taking the games at face value when they say that the Four Sword splits a single Link into four heroes.

For one thing, it's a kind of time travel we haven't seen. According to this theory, unless you don't regard game sprites or official art as canonical, they all end up in a Toon Link body. Presumably, this body would be created by the Four Sword. But while the Hero of Time travelled back and forth in time within his own body (be it seven years or three days), and as far as I know Oracle Link traveled DeLorean-style by simply taking his body to another time period (though I may be wrong there as I haven't played those games), I don't think we've seen anyone travelling through time into a new body. (On the other hand, until recently we'd never seen trains. So you could be right.)

Then again, maybe all the other Links being pulled from other times are Toon Link. You could get by with that, since Minish Cap Link and FS/FSA Link are probably two, maybe three, different people and then you have Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass Link and Spirit Tracks Link. Where do they get the different-colored clothes? Same place Twilight Princess Link got his Hero's Clothes. Its maaaagiiiiic!

In any case, you only need three other Links because the one at the beginning of each Four Swords canonically exists within the same time frame in which the game is set.

You have the same issue with the time-traveling swords, come to think of it: They all look like the Four Sword. This creates problems because only the Four Sword needs to be powered up by Force Gems in order to gain "the power to repel evil." In fact, in the Lokomo Sword's place/time of origin, Force Gems do something almost completely different. (Or at least the magical doodads in ST Hyrule use Force Gems in different ways.) Moreover, it already has that power. The Master Sword either already has it or it doesn't, depending on the point in time from which it's pulled (e.g. it has it after WW but not before). I'm kinda fuzzy on how the Phantom Sword worked, but you get the idea. So if nothing else, I'm going to have to say that the Four Sword is a single sword that splits into four, even if the Links are not.

Bottom line? It's actually more plausible than I thought at first (except for the swords part) but I still think it's unlikely. Certainly interesting, though.

Completely unrelated: Wouldn't that grandpa loop thing result in you having more and more of Grandma's DNA over increased iterations? Since you'd have about 1/4 to start with, but when you replaced your original grandpa you'd create a parent with half your DNA and half hers (i.e. 5/8 hers, and 1/8 each from your other three grandparents including Grandpa Prime)? Also your parent would now have DNA from your other parent. So wouldn't you eventually break the cycle by becoming inbred enough to be incapable of time travel?

 

[Locke]

Time travel isn't the problem with this theory (except that it's baseless).
The real issue is that FSA's events cannot proceed OoT's whether it's in a loop or not, and if FSA merely created a timeline split, then how does that satisfy the 'first tale' quote?
Plus you have the "face-value" inconsistencies that I and linebyline explained.

 

[Austin]

Personally, I'm taking the games at face value when they say that the Four Sword splits a single Link into four heroes.

For one thing, it's a kind of time travel we haven't seen. According to this theory, unless you don't regard game sprites or official art as canonical, they all end up in a Toon Link body. Presumably, this body would be created by the Four Sword. But while the Hero of Time travelled back and forth in time within his own body (be it seven years or three days), and as far as I know Oracle Link traveled DeLorean-style by simply taking his body to another time period (though I may be wrong there as I haven't played those games), I don't think we've seen anyone travelling through time into a new body. (On the other hand, until recently we'd never seen trains. So you could be right.)

1) If you remember/pay Wind Waker. King of Red Lions or his secret identity, mentions how the Hero of Winds reminds him of the Hero of Time. This implies the two hero's look similar/same, despite having different sprites or official art.

2) Yes. he went back in time in his same body.

Then again, maybe all the other Links being pulled from other times are Toon Link. You could get by with that, since Minish Cap Link and FS/FSA Link are probably two, maybe three, different people and then you have Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass Link and Spirit Tracks Link. Where do they get the different-colored clothes? Same place Twilight Princess Link got his Hero's Clothes. Its maaaagiiiiic!

In any case, you only need three other Links because the one at the beginning of each Four Swords canonically exists within the same time frame in which the game is set.

Like I said, my theory doesn't use sprites or official art. Refer to my comment about the Hero of Winds and Hero of Time comment above.

You have the same issue with the time-traveling swords, come to think of it: They all look like the Four Sword. This creates problems because only the Four Sword needs to be powered up by Force Gems in order to gain "the power to repel evil." In fact, in the Lokomo Sword's place/time of origin, Force Gems do something almost completely different. (Or at least the magical doodads in ST Hyrule use Force Gems in different ways.) Moreover, it already has that power. The Master Sword either already has it or it doesn't, depending on the point in time from which it's pulled (e.g. it has it after WW but not before). I'm kinda fuzzy on how the Phantom Sword worked, but you get the idea. So if nothing else, I'm going to have to say that the Four Sword is a single sword that splits into four, even if the Links are not.

Bottom line? It's actually more plausible than I thought at first (except for the swords part) but I still think it's unlikely. Certainly interesting, though.

You reminded me of one more thing about why they're may or may not be possible four different swords. If we take into the consideration of the master sword and its time traveling attributes. We can consider two routes with this. The first route is that their can only be one master sword in Hyrule. If this is true, then each of the four Links have a different sword, with different power. However, if each hero who had access to the master sword and used it to travel back to the FSA era, and we assume that there could be multiple master swords. This can give us another explanation on how each of the four Link's to time travel. I'll have to look into this later.

Completely unrelated: Wouldn't that grandpa loop thing result in you having more and more of Grandma's DNA over increased iterations? Since you'd have about 1/4 to start with, but when you replaced your original grandpa you'd create a parent with half your DNA and half hers (i.e. 5/8 hers, and 1/8 each from your other three grandparents including Grandpa Prime)? Also your parent would now have DNA from your other parent. So wouldn't you eventually break the cycle by becoming inbred enough to be incapable of time travel?

I didn't think of it that way. That is a really good point, and I tip my hat to you. However, I'm not favored of the ringed time line, but merely wanted to state the idea and get opinions. I'm more favored of the split alternative.

Time travel isn't the problem with this theory (except that it's baseless).
The real issue is that FSA's events cannot proceed OoT's whether it's in a loop or not, and if FSA merely created a timeline split, then how does that satisfy the 'first tale' quote?
Plus you have the "face-value" inconsistencies that I and linebyline explained.

If you look up and read the part where I talk about events happening either to be date/time of sequential ordering. Sequentially OoT happens before the TFS. However, give OoT a date/time, and that time/date would be higher or later then the TFS date/time Read above about my Hero of Time and Hero of Winds comment.

 

[DuckNoises]

You reminded me of one more thing about why they're may or may not be
possible four different swords. If we take into the consideration of
the master sword and its time traveling attributes. We can consider two
routes with this. The first route is that their can only be one master
sword in Hyrule. If this is true, then each of the four Links have a
different sword, with different power. However, if each hero who had
access to the master sword and used it to travel back to the FSA era,
and we assume that there could be multiple master swords. This can give
us another explanation on how each of the four Link's to time travel.

The Master Sword is the only sword that has the slightest implication of being involved with time travel, and even so, the Master Sword from Ocarina of Time is only affiliated with time travel because it is used by the Hero of Time, as he is the only one who can remove it from its pedestal (the one in Ocarina of Time). Rauru wouldn't refer to any other pedestal because it would be an anachronistic and irrelevant statement; after the Door of Time was closed, the Master Sword seemed to have lost any power regarding time travel. It's fairly certain that there is only one Master Sword as its origins in each game are not left entirely unclear; there has always been some sort of indication that is an ancient blade of legend.

The Master Sword is a sacred
blade which evil ones may never
touch....
Only one worthy of the title of
"Hero of Time" can pull it from
the Pedestal of Time....
However, you were too young to
be the Hero of Time....

You must lay the Master Sword to
rest and close the Door of Time...

Leaving the Master Sword "to rest" in conjunction with closing the Door of Time implies that it would never be used again for time travel, as it is no longer needed (and should not be used) for that purpose.

If you remember/pay Wind Waker. King of Red Lions or his secret identity, mentions how the Hero of Winds reminds him of the Hero of Time. This implies the two hero's look similar/same, despite having different sprites or official art.

This is not because they are the same person, merely because they are wearing similar clothing. Read the following:

On a certain island, it became customary to
garb boys in green when they came of age.

Clothed in the green of fields, they aspired
to find heroic blades and cast down evil.

Time certainly flies... I can't believe you're
already old enough to wear these clothes.

Don't look so disappointed, dear one!
Just try them on.


Today is a day to celebrate! It is the day
that you become the same age as the young
hero spoken of in all the legends.

You only have to wear them for one day, so
don't look so down. Be proud, child!

In the olden days, this was the day boys
were finally considered to be men. They
were taught the ways of the sword to
prepare them for battle with their enemies.

Maybe time travel is a power for our hero's? I'm going to say that it is, and not all of them use this power. We sort of see time manipulation in Phantom Hourglass (to add a little more to my argument). You seem sort of determine to stick with Hero of Time, being the only hero who may time travel, and I'm sort of confused on why. Why is it so difficult to believe that our hero's (holder of the Triforce of Courage) to have the power to time travel. The Triforce of Power gave Ganondorf/Ganon power to take over a nation. I'm not sure about the Triforce of Wisdom, but there is a good chance it has a strong power.

The point is that it's never been implied that the Triforce of Courage allows anyone to time travel. In fact, it was only after Link pulled the Master Sword from its pedestal that the Triforce was split and Link obtained the Triforce of Courage. He was able to travel through time before he obtained the Triforce of Courage, and therefore it cannot be the Triforce of Courage that allows for Time Travel.

After you opened the door of
time, the Master Sword sealed you
away in the Sacred Realm...

Your spirit remained in the Sacred
Realm...and then the Triforce fell
into Ganondorf's hands.

Even still, if it were affiliated with Time Travel, the only heroes who have possessed the Triforce of Courage are the Hero of Time and the Link from Twilight Princess.