The First Two Zelda Games, is Everything Canon?

[ZeldafreakCJM]

So I wasn't really sure where to put this...I guess it could be moved if necessary. =\
Also if It's old feel free to lock.

Before I delve into this, I'd like to sate I've got nothing against any religion at all.

Anyhow here goes...do we consider the various signs of Christianity within TLOZ and AOL (and to a lesser extent ALttP) as signs of an religion (Christianity) within the Zelda universe? Or do we just assume that; sense Nintendo decided to develop their own semi-religion for Zelda later on, that any religious signs prior to this inclusion are not canon? I mean we don't really consider the early designs of the Gerudo symbol on the mirror shield in OOT more canon than the one that's been used countless times since OOT, do we? I'm positive we don't, so then should we consider the shield designs and the symbols in the first three Zelda games more canon then every Zelda since? I've also heard the theory that both religions are present in the Zeldaverse, but there is never any true reason to believe it could develop because (unless I'm missing something ) TLOZ and AOL are the only two games to prominently feature signs and symbols of this nature.

My biggest problem with Zelda mixing with Christianity has nothing to do with the religion but rather the fact Zelda feels tethered to the real world when it features a real religion, and as such the immersion is broken. At least to me. :/

So then Zelda Dungeon what's your take on this? Do you consider the symbols in the first two games canon? Or do you believe that they have been retconned by the modern day Zelda semi-religion?

 

[MrGray]

I just consider them as that early Nintendo charm. But if it were to be canon, we can clearly see that TLOZ/AOL are at the end of the timeline, correct? Perhaps the Hylian religion evolved to include symbols such as the cross in them.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Djinn]

I have always taken the including of a cross on the shield to be some quickly ill thought out aesthetic added in to make the game seem more western. The developers probably being much more knowledgeable about game development and not as much in the way of things like world building, fantasy art, or even historical accuracy probably just thought to add a couple random things in the game just to make it more westernish since they were creating a western medieval fantasy style game. So they probably thought to themselves "What would a western swordsman look like?" while also remembering that it has to be a very simple image for a tiny 8-bit character. So looking over a couple random images of a typical generic knight,

Looks western, looks common enough to pick up on, and looks simple enough to go on a tiny shield. Therefore very generic picture placed on a shield probably as an afterthought to make the game more western-y. I do not believe there were any more extra connotations beyond that fact. Nor did the developers give much thought to religious connotations in any deeper level beyond the thought of "What would a typical western hero wear and use when fighting magical monsters?" And this I believe is why they added an item called a bible in the game.

It was changed to magic book in the translation but Nintendo of America did not use any religious terms around that time. It is used much in the same way a Buddhist sutra would be used in an eastern fantasy game, a very potent weapon used against demons and evil forces. This is probably why it increases the power of the magic rod in the original. This shows me that they did not really consider doing much research in the area and only added in some very generic western items and gave them a quick purpose. I do not believe it was meant to display any real amount of religion within the context of the game.

 

[The Jade Fist]

The triforce religion seams loosely based on Christianity (at least in OoT and earlier). And as the game is featured as a medievil europe like region, its not that far of a stretch. Gerudo of the desert having muslim symbols all around only furthers that. Even if instead of going east it was going west to the desert. The temple of time's architecture is very Christan in design as well.

post OoT they seamed, to get away from it though

 

[ZeldafreakCJM]

Alright thanks ZD, that cleared the confusion up. Also that was a great post Djinn, I never thought of the possibilities that it may just be added to appeal more so to the western market. This brings me to another point, I realize that there are parallels (there are parallels in all fiction to everything) but a real religion in a fictitious universe not based on Earth does break the immersion just a bit. As a side-note I wonder what the series would've been like if there was an over emphasis on these parallels to begin with?:thinking:

 

[The Jade Fist]

Its mostly thematic to make it feel all medievil europey. I don't see why that breaks the immersion.

 

[ZeldafreakCJM]

Its mostly thematic to make it feel all medievil europey. I don't see why that breaks the immersion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm more than capable of being immersed in the first two Zelda games and any others that feature an extensive amount of parallels. The idea of immersion being broken, was in the sense, that I don't like fictitious worlds (not based on Earth) having cultural and worldly based ideologies etc. Take Mario for example, would prefer to run and jump around in the Mushroom Kingdom or lets say Kansas?

 

[MikauIncarnate]

I believe that, originally, the religion in the Zelda Universe was going to be Christianity, completely. I can't remember where I read that, or maybe it's just a theory, but that's always what I thought. After they realised that that might be offensive to people, they decided to change it to a completely foreign religion. But, either way, I've always seen the parallels between Hyrulianism and Christianity, as I'm pretty sure that it developed out of that. MrGrays point also makes sense. I mean we've already been shown in skyward sword that a monotheistic religion evolved into a polytheistic one. It's very possible that after many many many many years, that further developed into the idea of the holy trinity (which is already fairly present in the triforce) and then became Christianity. If you wanted to think of it this way, then it's not crazy to think of Hyrule and the surrounding countries as being an actual landmass somewhere in Europe or something during the Middle Ages. I think that's kinda cool.

 

[Terminus]

Well, non-canonically, they're just semi-authentic reproductions of actual Medeival equipment. Canonically, it's an enigma.

P.S.: They are Canonical,

That's them in the bottom-left corner below LA/OoS/OoA/ALttP.

 

[felipe970421]

Official art of a Link to the past, just to throw you guys a headache

 

[Terminus]

Official art of a Link to the past, just to throw you guys a headache

Science dammit...

Ah well, this is all on the " Failure" timeline anyway. Perhaps the extinction of "proper" Hylians (the Hylia) brought a new religion into existence, curiously similar to Christianity.

 

[Skunk]

Seeing Mary and Jesus in early official Zelda art does induce quite a headache, seeing as we have so much various information of the Hylian religion. But up until A Link to the Past all we really had was the Triforce and Ganon to put in places that would remotely fit into any mythology or religion, so it would make sense if they did put in some elements from real faiths. And seeing as the series basis world is a Medeival European styled land, putting in elements from Christianity makes sense. I believe that these Christian symbols and art were canonical, up till The Ocarina of Tiime and after. The reason I include The Ocarina of Time is because, though it does feature symbols from various religions in the real world, they could be used and makes sense to their environment or item.Take the mirror shield's original design:

The symbol seen is a crescent moon, and the moon reflects the light of the sun just as the mirror shield does. Usually these symbols have a reasonto be taken canonically in their art, but not in theiractual meaning to the story or culture.

 

[PokaLink]

Just Nintendo trying to give it a medieval feeling, and so they used the same classical medieval symbel, the cross, and maybe trying to give it a medieval feeling they wanted Link to be a herioic christian, but eventuly they probably realized to be avaliable to the wider audience they made up a religion. I just take the first couple games as complete canon with a medieval style.