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ST: Trying To Be Twilight Princess?

Joined
Nov 26, 2008
i liked st but i agree way too similarities to tp its ust a bunch of tp ideas on tthe Ds
Well, I wasn't trying to necessarily say it was a bad thing. Just that it was odd. Ultimately I think it was an aspect of weak design/creativity, but I don't think it horribly dragged down the game..
 

athenian200

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Jan 31, 2010
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It would say that it feels like a cross between a lot of the previous Zelda games. Specifically Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, and Phantom Hourglass. But this can be said about a lot of Zelda games.

I could say that ALttP was trying to be LoZ. Or that LADX, OoX, and MC were trying to be ALttP on the Gameboy.

I could say that MM, TP, and WW were all trying to be OoT.

The most original games in the series were LoZ, AoL, and OoT. Everything else is pretty much an attempt to replicate something earlier. Nothing has imitated AoL except the CD-i games, however.

The thing is, in Zelda, innovation tends to be incremental. Sure, one game may be clearly based off of an older one, but as the new concepts originating in one game are used again, the genre slowly makes large changes.
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Location
Skyrule
Ya, lots of zelda games reuse ideas and characters and graphics.
Spirit Tracks felt, and played nothing like Twilight Princess. You gotta agree with that.
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
It would say that it feels like a cross between a lot of the previous Zelda games. Specifically Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, and Phantom Hourglass. But this can be said about a lot of Zelda games.

Ya, lots of zelda games reuse ideas and characters and graphics.
It doesn't feel quite fair to me to explain this away with "oh, a lot of Zelda games copy each other and re-use elements". Look at the examples I gave. Malladus is blatantly identical to TP Ganon (while being a completely different character), and many of the enemies are literally the EXACT SAME DESIGN. No other Zelda games, except those (as I said) that share the same graphics, have re-used character designs like that. These two examples, at least, are two things the series has never done before, so it's still note-worthy.


The thing is, in Zelda, innovation tends to be incremental. Sure, one game may be clearly based off of an older one, but as the new concepts originating in one game are used again, the genre slowly makes large changes.
Yeah, I can agree with that. The series uses a lot of the same stuff, making it feel familiar and nostalgic, while innovating gradually and advancing over time. :)


Spirit Tracks felt, and played nothing like Twilight Princess. You gotta agree with that.
Of course, there's no doubt of that. :? Point is, that ST had this weird way of borrowing off TP in ways the series hasn't really seen before. They were very different games besides this (which is sort of what makes it so odd).
 

Mr.Verto

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Jun 14, 2010
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Not in the SB ;-;
Well ST wasnt exactly the same as TP, i mean TP is dark St could burn your eyes out of the amount of color.
But the final battle and many enemies looked just the same
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Location
Skyrule
I agree that Malladus was a total rip-off of Ganny. That's the only thing that really bothered me that was recycled. Although he was really fun to fight!
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2010
Location
Faron Woods
Zelda team is probably trying to bring elements from cel-shaded Zelda to realistic Zelda and vice-versa. I have to say, I was not bothered at all with the addition of these elements, and Skeldritch, despite been a boss battle very similar to Stallord, it works differently. Either way many Zelda games tend to re-use certain elements. Gohma, for instance, appear many times in many different incarnations. I suppose Stallord will have the same treatment considering his popularity. Cel-shaded Zelda and realistic Zelda have a different kind of artstyle, and different kind of enemy design. It is easy to assume Nintendo wants to blend both artstyle in order to try something new. ST was the "prototype" and SS is going the same route.

But I don't really think ST is trying to be a cel-shaded TP, they have very different design. ST is obviously following PH's design, its just that Nintendo wanted to try to blend the artsyles. I have also another theory: if you notice, besides ST, the only two cel-shaded games have the "sea traveling" theme. ST storyline happens on land. So in order to make you feel that you are in land, the designers brought creatures from previous Zelda titles that were also on land.Been TP the most recent Zelda it makes sense that Nintendo decided to reuse some character models.

Zelda team is probably trying to bring elements from cel-shaded Zelda to realistic Zelda and vice-versa. I have to say, I was not bothered at all with the addition of these elements, and Skeldritch, despite been a boss battle very similar to Stallord, it works differently. Either way many Zelda games tend to re-use certain elements. Gohma, for instance, appear many times in many different incarnations. I suppose Stallord will have the same treatment considering his popularity. Cel-shaded Zelda and realistic Zelda have a different kind of artstyle, and different kind of enemy design. It is easy to assume Nintendo wants to blend both artstyle in order to try something new. ST was the "prototype" and SS is going the same route.

But I don't really think ST is trying to be a cel-shaded TP, they have very different design. ST is obviously following PH's design, its just that Nintendo wanted to try to blend the artsyles. I have also another theory: if you notice, besides ST, the only two cel-shaded games have the "sea traveling" theme. ST storyline happens on land. So in order to make you feel that you are in land, the designers brought creatures from previous Zelda titles that were also on land.Been TP the most recent Zelda it makes sense that Nintendo decided to reuse some character models.

Zelda team is probably trying to bring elements from cel-shaded Zelda to realistic Zelda and vice-versa. I have to say, I was not bothered at all with the addition of these elements, and Skeldritch, despite been a boss battle very similar to Stallord, it works differently. Either way many Zelda games tend to re-use certain elements. Gohma, for instance, appear many times in many different incarnations. I suppose Stallord will have the same treatment considering his popularity. Cel-shaded Zelda and realistic Zelda have a different kind of artstyle, and different kind of enemy design. It is easy to assume Nintendo wants to blend both artstyle in order to try something new. ST was the "prototype" and SS is going the same route.

But I don't really think ST is trying to be a cel-shaded TP, they have very different design. ST is obviously following PH's design, its just that Nintendo wanted to try to blend the artsyles. I have also another theory: if you notice, besides ST, the only two cel-shaded games have the "sea traveling" theme. ST storyline happens on land. So in order to make you feel that you are in land, the designers brought creatures from previous Zelda titles that were also on land.Been TP the most recent Zelda it makes sense that Nintendo decided to reuse some character models.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Location
California
I've noticed some of the same things but I think the reason was that ST was just perfecting (some degree of speculation there) of PH's formula. They didn't want to make the completely identical the PH, so they used the latest Zelda game as a different base for some of the things in the game.

They could also just be Easter-eggs tossed in for people who played Twilight Princess, since none of them have really importance to the plot.
 

Zleda

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Joined
May 16, 2011
Location
Seattle WA
I think both the DS games copied a lot from the Wind Waker and TP, respectively. Phantom Hourglass was expected to be just like the wind waker, as it was a sequel. I think the developers saw how successful PH was, then made ST with the same mentality, but with mechanics from Twilight Princess instead. Maybe to ease young or new players into those themes on a more kid-friendly console/game?
 

Azure Sage

March onward forever...
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-Enemies in common, such as: Bulbos, Bulblins, White Wolfos, Mini Freezards.

-Boss in common: Skeldritch, while fought differently, was similar to Stallord in theme, arena and appearance.

-Tears of Light, while serving a completely different appearance, appeared in both games.

-Postman, and a few other gameplay quirks. You got letters, read them, and used them ALL EXACTLY THE SAME as in TP. Additionally, the story was very linear, and it had the endurance dungeon.

-Similar themes. Dark clouds, heavenly or benevolent "spirits" (the Spirits of ST vs. the Light Spirits of TP), an initially invincible recurring villain (Byrne/Zant) and a fruitcake psychotic villain (Cole/Zant) who is replaced by a bigger badder villain (Malladus/Ganondorf).

-Ganon and Malladus. Let's face it, they were identical. Malladus' final form is identical to Beast Ganon, they're the same in personality and plot, and they BOTH POSSESS ZELDA.

I noticed some of those as well. But, let's face it. Spirit Tracks did a much better job than Twilight Princess when it came to using those themes. Especially the bit about Malladus and Ganondorf. At least ST bothered to mention that there was a power higher than Cole early on instead of just randomly tossing in Malladus halfway through like they did with Ganondorf in TP. And the ST Postman wasn't nearly annoying as the TP Postman. Plus, the Tears of Light in ST were more useful than the ones in TP.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
Eh. Some basic ideas were the same, but the game was still clearly its own. You're neglecting how unique it was. The Train, the Tower of Spirits, the train stations, the style of play... There are so many things that separates Spirit Tracks from Twilight Princess that make the similarities extremely minor.

Oh, and as far as the Tears of Light go, they were in no way the same. The point was to collect three of them in order to take over a Phantom and advance forward in the Tower of Spirits, whereas they were a scavenger hunt in Twilight Princess to get rid of the Twilight blanketing Hyrule. Really nothing alike save the name. Same with Malladus. While they had similar aspects, their battles were completely different.
 

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