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Spoiler Skyward Sword: What Have We Learned?

Onilink89

Nyanko Sensei
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Location
The Netherlands
That's an interesting find actually. However it calls into question just how much power Hylia had in the first place. The Goddess of Time can... well control time. Yet Hylia is shown walking through a Gate of Time. However, like you said, the Ocarina always plays a key role in time travel. Perhaps Hylia was able to transfer the power from the Gate of Time into an instrument.

You make a good point. But don't forget that the Hylia we see is in a mortal form, which is zelda in this case. We also don't know if Hylia always gets resurrected in a mortal form. We do know that SS zelda is the first to start the royal family bloodline. Especialy after what demise said before he dies; "Those like you... Those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero, they are eternally bound to this curse".

We have also seen that zelda needed the harp to aid her on her own quest. I don't know if that harp is the same harp that Sheik uses in OOT, or when the ocarina came into the picture for that matter. But we do know it has a connection with the royal family and the master sword.

I don't know if the goddess of time really controls time or simply governs it or just can manipulate it. But i think its safe to assume that Hylia and the Goddess of time (if they are the same or not) Plays a minor roll compared to the three goddesses. (Din, Nayru and Farore)

Like i said, its a wild guess. The indications are small, but there are certainly some connections.
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Well Hylia did not exist when Majora's Mask was created. The devs could never plan that far ahead. They also would not care enough to go back and rethink the meaning of that one line of dialogue. So the goddess of time is one of the three original goddesses.

The Demise -> Gerudo theory definately seems like wishful thinking to me. First of all, Demise's physical form was destroyed. How could a race descend from him? And the gerudo being absent doesn't mean anything. We don't see the kokiri, zora, or deku either. Sure the kokiri and zora could descend from the kikwi and parella, but evolving an established race makes much more sense than evolving one demon that was sealed away. And saying the gerudo forehead jewels are related to Demise's wound from the sealing spike doesn't make sense either. Thats just reading into things too much. Looking for something where there is nothing. The game didn't make as many connections as you would have liked, so you are trying to create more.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
We learn that the triforce marks in Twilight Princess were simply marks of the chosen ones.

Well, most of us have known that for quite some time; it was not a huge revelation, to be honest. It was first seen in Ocarina of Time...

We learned a fair deal. The only people who are disappointed are the ones who formulated exactly how the plot would tie into other games before playing. Their expectations were way too high and naturally Nintendo wanted to keep things simple.

I agree... This comment would have gotten you rep^. :yes:


Well Hylia did not exist when Majora's Mask was created. The devs could never plan that far ahead. They also would not care enough to go back and rethink the meaning of that one line of dialogue. So the goddess of time is one of the three original goddesses.

That is not always a good argument, for there is such a thing called "retcon". However, I can somewhat agree with you - in this case - that the devs would definitely not care much to retrogress to sort of change that one line of dialogue.
 
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Red Baron

Lucius Junius Brutus
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Location
Toronto
We learn that the triforce marks in Twilight Princess were simply marks of the chosen ones.

I think this is one of the more confusing aspects of the game. When the first mark appeared on Link my immediate thought was "wtf, the triforce was split?". I think a good question is whether Nintendo really wanted to flip this known fact on it's head (that the mark means you posses the triforce) or if they figured that a quick use of this symbol was a harmless bit of foreshadowing and doesn't affect the usual meaning of this symbol. What does this mean for the end of OoT?

You seem to be misunderstanding me. I don't think Demise was was a Gerudo. More likely that the Gerudo stem from him. If the Kokiri can evolve into Koroks, then (according to Zelda logic at least) it would be easy to evolve into a more humanoid and less scaly creature. It would also be possible for Demise to create the race roughly based off his appearance yet more human so they at least ahd the chance of being accepted by the Hylians. I just think it's interesting that Demise possess those few characteristics with the Gerudo, and yet they make no appearance at all in the game. Why would they not be in Hyrule? Well, the most obvious answer is that they simply moved there from another region. That may well be the case. But, to me at least, there are too many similarities to simply pass them off as coincidence.

Ok, I'm glad I now comprehend your theory. I think your making a mountain out of mole hill. While I dont' agree with most of your similarities, I think the few that do exist are meant to connect Demise to Ganon and Ganondorf only.
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
I don't think Demise's hatred could have led to the creation of the gerudo. Only Ganondorf and Twinrova are malevolent. The rest of the gerudo are not actually evil beings. There is also the fact that it is much simpler and logical for Demise to just be reborn in Ganondorf.

As for the goddess of time, I believe it is Nayru that is said to have created the laws of the world. Time would fit into this category. You have a point with the other deities though. IMO, it seems that the goddess of time has a great deal of power that other deities do not. I think that Zelda called her the goddess of time in this game as opposed to Nayru to avoid alienating players who had not played Ocarina of Time. They would not understand who Nayru was, but they wouldn't have much trouble accepting that there is a goddess of time.
 

Onilink89

Nyanko Sensei
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Location
The Netherlands
Well Hylia did not exist when Majora's Mask was created. The devs could never plan that far ahead. They also would not care enough to go back and rethink the meaning of that one line of dialogue. So the goddess of time is one of the three original goddesses.

The Demise -> Gerudo theory definately seems like wishful thinking to me. First of all, Demise's physical form was destroyed. How could a race descend from him? And the gerudo being absent doesn't mean anything. We don't see the kokiri, zora, or deku either. Sure the kokiri and zora could descend from the kikwi and parella, but evolving an established race makes much more sense than evolving one demon that was sealed away. And saying the gerudo forehead jewels are related to Demise's wound from the sealing spike doesn't make sense either. Thats just reading into things too much. Looking for something where there is nothing. The game didn't make as many connections as you would have liked, so you are trying to create more.

I don't know what you are trying to say with "did not excist". MM comes way after SS and Hylia is just a name of a goddess.
And please i have said this to countless members, if you make a statement then give arguments to support that. You are trying to point out flaws, thats not giving arguments.
For example; "this is wrong so this has to be true"
Another example; "we don't know how the earth was created, therefore god excists"
Specific example; "the developers could not have planned that ahead, therefore is has too be one of the three goddesses"


And yes, the developers could not planned that far ahead. But nothing is planned ahead in the zelda series for that matter, for instance the split timeline. But the developers had the possibilty to set an explanation for a origin with SS. Seeing this is the prequel of prequels.

I do not deny the possibilty that that the goddess of time could have been one of the three goddesses. But the possibilty that there was a 4th goddess involved was there even before SS came into the picture. And suddenly we do see a 4th goddess appear with SS.

What im trying too say is, I'm not saying that Hylia is the goddess of time but the possibilty excist. Same goes for the three goddesses, it has never been confimed that one of them is indeed the goddess of time, yet the possibilty excists.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Given that each Goddess is given a title and role to play in the creation of Hyrule it's unlikely that each Goddess mentioned in the Zelda series is one of these original Goddesses. There are a few hints in some games that there are deities that exist without having any connection to the Three. For example, we see two huge statues of a woman with a snake wrapped around her in the Spirit Temple from Oot. Being a place of worship it's fairly evident the Gerudo have some sort of following for her, yet it is never revealed who she is.
If I remember correctly one of the fairies in WW who gives you a bigger wallet is refereed to as 'The Goddess of Fortune'. Yet she clearly isn't a one.

Hmm... Well yeah. There's...

Golden Goddesses (most supreme)| Major Gods | Guardians | Unaffiliated
  • Din
  • Farore
  • Nayru


  • Hylia [SS]
  • Wind Fish [LA]
  • Ocean King [PH]
  • Goddess of Time (?) [MM]


  • Lord Jabu Jabu [OoT]
  • Great Deku Tree [OoT]
  • Desert Colossus [OoT]
  • Four Giants [MM]
  • Valoo [WW]
  • Jabun [WW]
  • Mountain Goddess (?) [ST]


  • Owl [LA]
  • Turtle [MM]
  • Fierce Deity [MM]
  • Season Spirits [OoS]
  • Spirits of Light [TP]
  • Zephos and Cyclos [WW]
  • Great Fairies (Goddesses of Fortune) [WW]
  • Golden Chief Cyclos [PH]
  • Servant Spirits [PH]
  • Then there's the two "gods" mentioned in the Earth God's Lyric and the Wind God's Aria. [WW]
 
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Red Baron

Lucius Junius Brutus
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Location
Toronto
Like I said, evolution in the Zelda world.
Demise may well have CREATED the Gerudo race. Not necessarily gave birth to them as you seem to think I am hinting at. It may even have been an indirect creation caused by his 'curse'.
And for the record, I'm not trying to create connections. I think there were enough of them in the game to keep me satisfied. I was merely pointing out what I noticed. Yet for some reason people seem to think bad of me doing that...

Please don't think that anyone thinks bad of you. You're pointing out what you noticed, and so are we, if these don't align perfectly then there is bound to be discussion. Would I buy into the fact that the curse was responsible for the creation of the gerudo race, or at the very least (and I think more plausibly) their migration into Hyrule so that Ganondorf might one day come about and make a run for the Triforce - yes. Personally I think Demise has much more in common with the Twili, but there isn't really anything much to support that idea so I'm not going to think it's true.
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2011
Location
'Murica
About why the Master Sword is left in the Sealed Temple:

The Gate of Time in Lanayru was destroyed so, obviously, the next logical place to be crowned "Temple of Time" is the Sealed Temple. The new civilization builds around the Sealed Grounds and the Sealed Temple becomes the Temple of Time. The Master Sword is pulled from the Temple of Time and put back at the end of OoT so it doesn't change its location at all. Civilization leaves the area around the Temple of Time and it becomes nothing more than ruins, (TP) and then later the area becomes a forest. (ALttP)

Bam.

Of course this is simply my theory and complete spectulation.
 
H

HolyArtfak

Guest
Hylia can't be the goddess of time, for only one reason :
If Zelda is a reincarnation of Hylia, and the Zelda from MM is in the same bloodline, MM Zelda can't talk about the Goddess of Time as an external deity if it is "really" her the new Hylia.

To stay with the topic I will say that the "room" of the final battle seems to ressembles greatly the end of OOT where Zelda and Link are in the sky floating in the air.
Also the "room" also ressembles the battle with Dark Link in OOT.
 

Djinn

and Tonic
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Location
The Flying Mobile Opression fortress
Hylia can't be the goddess of time, for only one reason :
If Zelda is a reincarnation of Hylia, and the Zelda from MM is in the same bloodline, MM Zelda can't talk about the Goddess of Time as an external deity if it is "really" her the new Hylia.

To stay with the topic I will say that the "room" of the final battle seems to ressembles greatly the end of OOT where Zelda and Link are in the sky floating in the air.
Also the "room" also ressembles the battle with Dark Link in OOT.

I can see just how people can reach the Hylia=Time conclusion though. Mostly from the artifacts that are found throughout the games and what elements they closely correspond to. Hyrule has its own local temple in the Temple of Time, even in SS there was one there. Which contained a door of time. The temple of Hylia in the south also held a door of time. The master sword often rests in the pedestal of time and is the key to opening the door of time in previous games. The treasure of the royal family was the ocarina of time. Zelda herself was the sage of time. And in SS the secret to the technology of the ancient Hylians was a mineral called timeshift stones. Many things using them were said to have been build by Hylia herself. Almost everything characteristically Hylian is time related in some significant way. Much like the Zora are always associated with water, the Gorons with fire and earth, and the Gerudo with the twin elements of fire and ice.

The people of the goddess Hylia are very closely connected to time, along with the master sword and the temple dedicated to her. It would make some sense to connect Hylia to time in a way. I think the real issue there is people would want to associate another goddess with that of the golden goddesses. Which is clearly not as possible since she was a terrestrial deity that was connected to a people like the other deities of earth found in the series.


I think just saying that Zelda in a later era still refers to the Goddess of Time might not be a good enough example to reach a full conclusion. Many many things in the past are long forgotten by the time of later games. Already by TP most people have forgotten that they Hylians lived in the sky. It was just some far out there legend that not everyone really believed in. The city in the sky was a mythical place. The ancient ruins in the sacred forest meadow was mostly forgotten by almost everyone as well. By the time of OoT not many knew much of anything about the ancient past of Hyrule. By the time of WW no one even remembered just how the great sea got there or what a triforce was. Things are easily lost over the course of time in Zelda. Probably due to a general lack of basic education for most people living there. Most of the history probably passes through word of mouth except for a few special individuals and maybe the royal family.
 

Red Baron

Lucius Junius Brutus
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Location
Toronto
To throw out a random idea: what if the time properties of the Ocarina of Time are not actually related to any goddess, but it's made from a timeshift stone (with particular properties brought out by playing it). Going in a similar vein to what Djinn is saying, Zelda in MM might be assuming that the powers of the ocarina are prescribed by a goddess of time when no such goddess actually exists.
 

Onilink89

Nyanko Sensei
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Location
The Netherlands
Hylia can't be the goddess of time, for only one reason :
If Zelda is a reincarnation of Hylia, and the Zelda from MM is in the same bloodline, MM Zelda can't talk about the Goddess of Time as an external deity if it is "really" her the new Hylia.

To stay with the topic I will say that the "room" of the final battle seems to ressembles greatly the end of OOT where Zelda and Link are in the sky floating in the air.
Also the "room" also ressembles the battle with Dark Link in OOT.

I don't see your point. Just because she is from the same bloodline doesn't mean she is the incarnation of Hylia.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Hylia can't be the goddess of time, for only one reason :
If Zelda is a reincarnation of Hylia, and the Zelda from MM is in the same bloodline, MM Zelda can't talk about the Goddess of Time as an external deity if it is "really" her the new Hylia.

To stay with the topic I will say that the "room" of the final battle seems to ressembles greatly the end of OOT where Zelda and Link are in the sky floating in the air.
Also the "room" also ressembles the battle with Dark Link in OOT.

It is called retcon, my friend.
 

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