Should The Legend of Zelda Come to an End?

[Castle]

Now here's a big question.

My Fan-status for this series is legit, I assure you. Even though I've been unsatisfied with recent entries, there's no reason why TLoZ shouldn't ever be as good as it's ever been.

But in my opinion the rule of the universe is entropy. Everything comes to an end. And even the greatest things inevitably wither and perish. Everything deserves an ending, preferably before being dragged through the mud into ruin. My all time favorite television series, Person of Interest, managed to avoid such a fate. And everyone's better off that it ended when it did.

And I expect this of all my favorite ongoing stories. Heck, it's not my place to insist upon it but I do. There should be an end to every tale. And I appreciate it when stories are given the ending they deserve.

I'm not saying that's happening to TLoZ and I'm not saying it will. I'm not even saying that the Legend's heyday is behind it. But I can still think of several reasons why The Legend of Zelda could deserve a rest.

1.) Stagnation
Fans are constantly clamoring for continued fresh innovation in TLoZ even as they demand a return to series roots. The biggest limiting factor I perceive with this is that there seem to be a lot of taboos for this series that limit how much it can grow, even going so far as to prevent it from meeting modern standards (for good or ill, modern standards are woefully low after all). Meanwhile, the series tends to slip into a formulaic malaise. It's either too different or too samey. Furthermore, at this point, there really isn't anything TLoZ series has done that other games haven't already done, either better or to some greater extent.

2.) The story is a mess
Nintendo just isn't into the whole world building thing. At best, each game is a reiteration of the same basic narrative. Otherwise, it's establishing new lore that contradicts what little established lore already exists. And then almost immediately (if half a decade qualifies as "immediate") contradicting the new lore in the next installment. It makes the narrative almost impossible to make sense of. And if there's going to be a series with an over-arching narrative, then that narrative has to come together. At this point it feels to me like the series narrative has gone so off the rails it would be difficult to reign in now, and ninty can't seem to decide whether or not each game should be separate (with the occasional obvious sequel) or tied together as evident by their wonky attempts at retroactively splicing the series together.

3.) It limits what else Nintendo can do
This is what annoys me about the House of Mario. Any time ninty has a new conceptual idea that would make for a great new IP, they just turn it into a Mario game. They had enough sense to avoid doing this for the likes of Splatoon and Pikmen, but even Star Fox has been mangled by this dodgy approach to franchise management. Conversely ninty won't give us another F-Zero game because there's nothing new they can do with it. There are so many action adventures that Nintendo could make. Yet their flagship is Zelda, and as I pointed out in no.1 on this list, there are certain expectations that come with a Zelda game and this limits what Ninty can do. Imagine if someone at Nintendo had the idea for Xenoblade. That game wouldn't get made because ninty would demand that it be a Zelda game. And Blades and multicharacter parties and voiced protagonists with dodgy UK accents are things that Zelda just doesn't do (okay maybe not so much that last one ).

4.) Lack of interest
Sure, we're fans. But how many Zelda fans are there, really? More than being a creative product, TLoZ is also a commercial product. I'll rarely be one to champion putting business before creativity when it's the arts and entertainment we're talking about, but it still warrants consideration. Zelda just might not be as commercially viable as a fresh new IP could be.

5.) The series has already peaked
Okay okay. So I already said that TLoZ's heyday isn't necessarily behind it. But Ocarina of Time is largely considered one of the greatest video games ever made. How do you top that? Not to say you shouldn't try. Personally I think Twilight Princess is superior to Ocarina (while still failing to go its full mile). But there's wisdom in the saying "quit while you're ahead." It is said that it was customary for master craftsmen and artisans to retire upon completion of their masterwork. This is largely a myth, of course. History's greatest artisans have multiple seminal masterpieces and they still kept working. I'm not saying Nintendo should retire, but maybe it's time they started work on a new masterpiece and stop trying to one-up their old one?

Don't get me wrong. There's still life left in Zelda's legend, and despite my pessimism I'll continue to watch and see what comes next. Take one look at the plethora of Zelda fan art on Deviantart to see what awesome ideas people have for TLoZ. Frankly, I think the Zelda series' biggest problem is Nintendo. They just can't (or won't) give this series its due. I'd love to see what someone else could do with it, but I'd wager pigs fly before that happens.

But if there's a case to be made for bringing The Legend of Zelda to an indefinite conclusion, should it?

 

[Kylo Ken]

Literally just won game of the year. It's fine how it is.

 

[Castle]

Literally just won game of the year. It's fine how it is.

Eh, not that I object to the decision, but I wouldn't give awards shows too much credibility.

 

[Spirit]

As long as Nintendo exists then so will Zelda. I'd not like to see it end. Other than Kirby, Zelda is the franchise that means the most to me. My life would be a little emptier without it.

I agree that a few concepts would have made for some decent new IPs but those potential IPs would have needed a lot more hype and advertising to sell whereas Zelda is usually a guarantee. My only problem here is that when a new concept sucks it drags Zelda down with it.

I wouldnt like to see it end and i dont think it needs one as muh as it needs to begin again. Any series that goes on long enough will eventually cave in on itself where narrative is concerned and with Zelda always thinking of story as an appendix to gameplay it just happens to Zelda with every game instead of every decade. But when Aonuma and Shigsy finally step down or bite the dust new, younger talent with new ideas and their own vision of Zelda will come forward. I just hope i'll be alive to see it.

 

[DekuNut]

Even So, I think a major point of your argument was that it should quit while it's still good so that we have positive memories of the ending to the series.
Even So, I disagree. The thing about Zelda is that the setting and ideas and even characters are so varied that things will always be different in that regard. Unlike a TV show, it does somewhat reinvent itself with every new installment, and we've already seen it come back from severe low (Phillips). While I'd agree if the games were constantly mediocre, between ALBW and BotW, I'd argue that ad a whole the series is still in a good place.

 

[Dio]

Should have come to an end in 2006 when they made their last great game. The series is full of mediocrity (SS,OOX,PH,ST,BoTW) and the downright bad (TFH,FS,FSA) so overall things aren't good. It is time and it was time to wipe the slate clean and start afresh with games of consistent high quality.

Not saying that it should have ended forever. A reboot down the line could have happened to revive the series and start again with a new coherent story running throughout. There is no salvation for the current mess that we have

Yes BoTW won an award for Game of The Year but I do not think that makes it a good game. Even Suckward Sword, another mediocre game, has an average Metacritic score in the 90's. These inflated scores and awards from critics who suck Nintendo dick are only harming the future products because if Nintendo are receiving such praise for producing mediocrity then they will continue to do so.

 

[Nicolai]

Personally, I don't think its reached that point yet, its far from it. A few reasons: you mention Ocarina of Time as the peak of the Zelda series, though I still rank Majora's Mask, Skyward Sword, and Breath of the Wild above it. And BotW just set itself apart from what the series has been since the Wind Waker, and it'd be a shame to cut that trend off so soon.

"Meanwhile, the series tends to slip into a formulaic malaise. It's either too different or too samey."

I've never understood this perspective; it always seems contradictory to me. I think people's desire for familiary clash with their desire for fresh experiences, and they get in the way of each other rather than compliment each other. Imagine a spectrum with one side being familiar and another being fresh, and there really isn't a sweet spot.

Some will argue: the key word is innovation, which I think is a weird word to use for video games, a medium I and a lot of gamers think of as art. It implies that there are objective improvements, that there should always be a sense of the moving forward, and that old classics should be made obsolete. Yet every year folks scramble to see Händel's Messiah, marvel at the walls of the Sistine Chapel, boot up their Gamecubes for Melee, and marathon classic movies. They're all versions of the same art that has been perfected in its own way.

Sure, there are objective qualities, like graphics, cohesive gameplay, hint systems, etc. And video games are a relatively new medium, so many classics can lack these technical features. But many find that classic games are designed well enough to be enjoyable despite lack of technical features. It's not that future games haven't improved, it's just that the game they're playing now is different, yet still a perfected version of the materials that were available. Mozart died over 200 years ago, yet fans of Mozart call it "perfect music" despite its lack of the musical innovations that came after it.

This is why I'm not worried about the series peaking, and I'm not worried about a Zelda game being "too different," or "not improving on Ocarina of Time." Games like Breath of the Wild did things I haven't seen in Zelda before, and that's what matters to me. I'm also not fearful of future installments "ruining Zelda." Ocarina of Time is never going to change, it will be the same every time I boot it up on my N64, Wii, emulator, etc. No motorcycle is going to change that. I find its best to focus on my desire for change, understanding that my desire for familiarity is more of a primal fear of uncertainty that inhibits new experiences.

The story is a mess... ninty can't seem to decide whether or not each game should be separate (with the occasional obvious sequel) or tied together as evidentby their wonky attempts at retroactively splicing the series together.

No, the story isn't a mess if you haven't decided to try to piece them together. I think it's clear that Hyrule Historia was just a cash grab some exec decided on, and that Aonuma has no desire to piece these games together. Frankly, he shouldn't have to: the "each installment is another piece of the story" method is way too common these days, and would make the 4-5 year wait for a new Zelda game way more agonizing, just for some cheap surprise death or silly dramatic twist.

 

[the8thark]

1.) Stagnation

BotW is the opposite of stagnation. Nintendo tried something new to the IP.

2.) The story is a mess

Correct. However it's not why Nintendo makes the games and not why you should play them. Fun and gameplay is why they are made and why you should play them.

3.) It limits what else Nintendo can do

Not so. Of recent Nintendo is being less inclined to just shove every new idea into Mario or Zelda. Splatoon was going to be Mario after the tofu test idea was done. The new garage team said nope, make it original so Nintendo did.

4.) Lack of interest

Quite the opposite. The Switch is successful because of old and new franchises. That nostalgia hit plus new IPs is what the Switch's success is based on.

5.) The series has already peaked

Correct. With Breath of the Wild. And it will peak again with the next major release. And again and again.

 

[Lozjam]

Eh, not that I object to the decision, but I wouldn't give awards shows too much credibility.

Should have come to an end in 2006 when they made their last great game. The series is full of mediocrity (SS,OOX,PH,ST,BoTW) and the downright bad (TFH,FS,FSA) so overall things aren't good. It is time and it was time to wipe the slate clean and start afresh with games of consistent high quality.

Not saying that it should have ended forever. A reboot down the line could have happened to revive the series and start again with a new coherent story running throughout. There is no salvation for the current mess that we have

Yes BoTW won an award for Game of The Year but I do not think that makes it a good game. Even Suckward Sword, another mediocre game, has an average Metacritic score in the 90's. These inflated scores and awards from critics who suck Nintendo dick are only harming the future products because if Nintendo are receiving such praise for producing mediocrity then they will continue to do so.

If it was just a game of the year show, perhaps I would agree. However.

BotW is one of the highest rated games of all time. By developers in the industry, within reviewers and with users.


It is a lengthy feature, however, you have one of the developers from Bioshock and Rez really explain how brilliant BotW is from a design perspective.


It is also the fastest selling Zelda game of all time. Back in the Pre-BotW era, you both chimed in that the next Zelda should be more like TP, "because TP had the greatest sales of the series". BotW single handedly made the Switch sell out across the world. And it is hard not to see why.


Y'all should just realize that Zelda maybe isn't for you anymore. Meanwhile, Zelda just got a whole wealth of new fans, the future of the series is extremely positive, and many old fans such as myself are happy. Even if you didn't enjoy the game, it doesn't mean that it is a bad game. So many more people are into this series now because of BotW, and that definitely isn't fueled by nostalgia, because, well, they are new fans.

The series has never been in a better place, and BotW is the first of many games to make Nintendo relevant in the industry again.

 

[YIGAhim]

No. Sure it may have hit a rough patch for some, but others like those "Cruddy" recent games after Twilight Princess. That alone would make the game stay around with its semi-large fanbase.

Nintendo hears our complaints. They know that they over and undercompensate even worse than a noob driver, and are working on it.

There aren't many coming out in the first place. They crank out some sort of Mario game every 3 months basically. We don't see new Zelda games for 5 years. That's enough venting time for the fans who were mad about the previous entry.

They extremely overhype Zelda, making it a total success for Nintendo, but making what most people call "mediocre" Zelda games.

We all enjoy some part of each game. I could probably have made a OoX game just as well on RPG Maker, and there would still be stuff everyone liked. Almost every entry in the series is worth playing at least.

 

[misskitten]

1.) Stagnation

Sure, whatever the series does there will be a portion of fans who will be against it. But I think that's the great thing about Zelda. The different series entries will cater to different fans. Every title has its fans, and every title has its dislikers simply because what we love about Zelda is different. I disagree that the series has already done everything, because in my book it keeps bringing new and exciting things. I and several other fans may not have liked SS, but some fans absolutely loved it. ALBW and BotW have their haters, but they are my own personal favourites in the series.

2.) The story is a mess

That doesn't bother me all that much, my favourite games are my favourite because I love playing them, not because I love delving into their stores. I don't really play for the stories to be honest.

3.) It limits what else Nintendo can do

Have to agree to disagree there.

4.) Lack of interest

BotW just won Game of the Year, it's been selling great, even gamers who aren't usually Zelda fans are loving it. I would say the series has a bright future in terms of interest and sales.

5.) The series has already peaked

Some will always consider OoT the greatest video game ever, that's just the way it is. But they are not everyone. For me and for many others the current peak of the series is BotW, and I can't wait to see what they come up with next. Not instead of new IPs, but as well as new IPs.

 

[Dio]

If it was just a game of the year show, perhaps I would agree. However.

BotW is one of the highest rated games of all time. By developers in the industry, within reviewers and with users.



It is a lengthy feature, however, you have one of the developers from Bioshock and Rez really explain how brilliant BotW is from a design perspective.


It is also the fastest selling Zelda game of all time. Back in the Pre-BotW era, you both chimed in that the next Zelda should be more like TP, "because TP had the greatest sales of the series". BotW single handedly made the Switch sell out across the world. And it is hard not to see why.


Y'all should just realize that Zelda maybe isn't for you anymore. Meanwhile, Zelda just got a whole wealth of new fans, the future of the series is extremely positive, and many old fans such as myself are happy. Even if you didn't enjoy the game, it doesn't mean that it is a bad game. So many more people are into this series now because of BotW, and that definitely isn't fueled by nostalgia, because, well, they are new fans.

The series has never been in a better place, and BotW is the first of many games to make Nintendo relevant in the industry again.

Honestly BoTW does what Assassins creed does and what Skyrim did. It hasn't done anything new. Storytelling has gone downhill from past Zelda's. Combat has gone downhill from past Zeldas. It's not brilliant. It's mediocrity manifest. It feels unfinished. It is like a developers sandbox and it's not like a living world.

Fans are lapping up this mediocrity just like they lap up CoD. This is the way things are going. And yes the way things are going is not for me. I want quality polished products with thoughtful storytelling that progressively improve over their predecessors not lose what made past entries great in the first place.

 

[Spirit]

Honestly BoTW does what Assassins creed does and what Skyrim did. It hasn't done anything new. Storytelling has gone downhill from past Zelda's. Combat has gone downhill from past Zeldas. It's not brilliant. It's mediocrity manifest. It feels unfinished. It is like a developers sandbox and it's not like a living world.

Fans are lapping up this mediocrity just like they lap up CoD. This is the way things are going. And yes the way things are going is not for me. I want quality polished products with thoughtful storytelling that progressively improve over their predecessors not lose what made past entries great in the first place.

i'm sorry

 

[Dio]

i'm sorry

 

[Pinkarray]

I dont' think it should end, but like Deus said, the last great game was TP. SS was a soap opera mess and BOTW had a mediocre story and a bit too dramatic. It's interesting but It's not as great as TP.

I think that whatever Nintendo is doing, they need to stop. Making their characters go through emotional conflict possibly to make it more appealing to those who like melodramas is not for me. Link and Zelda have had it bad in SS and BOTW, they probably went through the worst alongside the Hero of Time. I think that Nintendo is trying to make their games more dramatic like OOT and TP and failing. Neither of those games had the titular character insulting or teasing Link all the time like BOTW and SS Zelda did, nor did they have more than three scenes of crying like BOTW and SS did. I think that Nintendo should limit the crying scenes on Zelda games and go back to having the characters cry only about a few times and not four or nine times. And also, if they can't make a good story out of Zelda, they need to stop making story-focused games.