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Mafia D: The Sith Lords

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Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Location
Chula Vista, San Diego, CA
Alright, first off, let me tell you my purpose.

It seems to me that the town is split between two factions currently. Those who believe Viral Maze is lying, and those who are unsure, as he is providing some reasonable explanations as to what could have happened.

I am here to not only tell you the former is correct, but to show you. Let me first say that, yes. Viral Maze is indeed providing some reasonable explanations as to what could have happened. Never has he really attempted to refute my claim directly.

Now onto the examples.

I will be providing from my notes, my posts, and Viral Maze's posts.

First off, let me just interpret a few of Viral Maze's posts. His posts are inconsistent with his previous appearances in ZD Mafia games (assuming in the games he was a pro-town) He is normally very active in the investigations, and at some points leads investigations entirely. He normally plays very aggressively, and right now he is extraordinarily passive.

I skimmed your wall of text, but I was just referring to Austin's post by itself (without your conjecture). It doesn't say that your target lined you up and spoke to you. Just that before you took the shot, someone interfered.

I did just re-read it now, and though this is the part I found a little ambiguous:
"All three laser sights turned off, and its mark had moved on. The machine processed that it would have to give up for tonight"
I can see how it's worded in your favour, specifically how it says 'it's mark', that is if you are in fact the other HK unit (not HK-50). I do agree with you however, on the order of the dialogue, that the other machine is HK-50, since I definitely don't think ALiT is a bulletproof townie.

There is no counterclaim yet for vig (or HK-47), so I don't not believe your role, but I think ALiT's responses will polarize me (to one side or another).

Alright, let's start here. Nothing interesting in particular, although he brings up a point he made in this post today.

The main thing here, is Viral Maze soft-claimed Bulletproof. He has yet to state whether or not this is a pro-town or anti-town role (and never really does) I personally believe this was him setting up a safeguard just in case he was in fact hit by me (or any other source) He could always reference this, he did say he was bulletproof. However, he never states which team he plays for. Whether or not you interpret him as being the Godfather, the Mafia Bulletproof (with the most likely scenario being that the actual Godfather is not bulletproof) or if he's the Town Bulletproof. Again, at this time, you decide.

After looking for tangibilities, I'm gonna

Vote: ALiT

The way I see it, lynch ALIT, ALiT flips scum/HK-50, Zenox is pretty clear. If not, we go for Zenox tomorrow. I'm more inclined to believe Zenox though.

This here confuses me. Well, actually it's really just interesting to me. Viral Maze is the only one that (to my knowledge) has played KOTOR2 other than myself, and Austin. (He stated in the sign ups he was rolling for HK-47, an assassin droid in the game) I posted my wall of text, and really the one thing that confused him was the ambiguous nightscene, and that was keeping him from voting. ALIT was a fellow mafia, obviously he wouldn't hop on board right away. Honestly, getting tripped up by the nightscene is realistic, it was extremely ambiguous, though honestly I think the nightscene itself keeping you from voting, rather than compelling evidence, is ... I don't even know.

I'll be referencing this post later. He says if ALIT flips scum, then I'm clear (I'm not using this to save myself, we'll be coming back to this later)

The droid follows its mark into yet another secluded location. It quietly waits for the trap it laid to be sprung. 3... 2... 1...

*BOOM*

A large explosion lights up the alley. The droid waits for his visual receptors to adjust to the sudden change of light, and sees a million grey pieces of flesh scattered about. Satisfied that its done the job tonight, the droid leaves the area before anyone discovers him. After he's left, all those pieces of grey flesh start to come back together, forming the shape of a man. The man shakes his head, grunts, and reassumes his disguise.

This is the nightscene from Night 2. For reference, I, being the Vigilante, targetted Viral Maze. Whether you question my reasoning for this target or not, that's irrelevant. My morals aren't yours. I had a hunch he wasn't bulletproof, and if he was, I can get this confirmed. In any case, the real thing we need to pay attention to is the bolded part.

The thing that is really pointed out here is the man has gray flesh. If you're familiar to KOTOR2, you'll also know that his gray flesh isn't coming back together simply to suit the role of the Bulletproof, you'd know why.

Let's explore this a bit.

I'd like to direct you to the character who I know fits this description perfectly. Darth Sion.

To the untrained eye, this could be written off as bulletproof. We don't know who this is. However, I do know who this is. Darth is a title used in the Sith to show a position of power, mainly used for those with force capabilities. The first thing I'd like to draw your attention to is his appearance. His skin is gray. Not only that, it is cracked all over the place. He almost looks undead. Let's explore the reason to this.

Wookiepedia said:
Sion found that by calling on his pain, anger, and hatred, he could rise from certain death and achieve immortality, at the cost of all-consuming agony. With a body fractured and decomposing, but held together by the dark side of the Force, Sion survived the Great Sith War.

Sion in actuality, is dead. His spirit still lives in his body, which is decomposing. It is only held together via the power of the Dark Side of the Force. Huh, that would explain why after the explosion, his flesh was able to return to his body. The Dark Side. Dark Side. Sith. uh-oh!

I think I made it decently clear yesterday that I was town bulletproof, Jedi Indomitable. Which is why your NK against me failed.
Good play on ALiT yesterday, even though I feel like luck had a lot to do with it, but in this case your failed NK was against a townie.

Question: Why are you not the serial killer?

Alright, this post is important. Let's go back to the first post I quoted, and then the second. First post is what he's referencing. He says he made it pretty clear he was bulletproof. Honestly, to me, without him having to actually point to that part, I just read it thinking he simply thought ALIT wasn't bulletproof, nothing more. Then he references it. "Hey, remember this? I'm bulletproof." He's using his safeguard to his advantage, trying to play off his death as "Oh, I'm the bulletproof, that's okay" Don't worry, he's not lying. He is bulletproof. Let's keep going.

He then accusses me of being serial killer. I can't name claim, so there's no real way for me to clear whether or not I'm serial killer (I assure you, I'm not.) But this is curious to me.

Viral Maze said:
The way I see it, lynch ALIT, ALiT flips scum/HK-50, Zenox is pretty clear. If not, we go for Zenox tomorrow. I'm more inclined to believe Zenox though.

ALIT turned up scum. In theory, in VM's mind, I should be clear. I assume the second post was made with the thought that I won't be onto him for awhile. If his thought of me deteriorated over time, that'd make sense, but this is the very next day. Suddenly he's under fire, what makes Zenox not the serial killer? Let's be honest, even if I was the serial killer, we'd still be having this conversation. I would've targetted Viral Maze, he would've been saved by his ability, I would've realized from the night scene he's Darth Sion. But, again, I'm not.

I don't really think Zenox is lying about targeting me, but I just think hes looking for the easy explanation, that is to say not taking into account roles (not just the theme).

I thought if the mafia/sith saw that it might evoke some sort of WIFOM response. If they targeted me thinking it was a gambit, great, nightkill wasted, if not, great, I survive.

Why did you even decide to target me? Do you have to target someone every night?

Again, he confirms he's bulletproof here. He doesn't think I lied about targetting him, he thinks I just automatically assumed gray skin led to Darth Sion. Go ahead, find someone that fits that description. Even just gray skin. Is he an alien? Possibly. But Darth Sion being bulletproof, and able to come back in that exact same manner, it's all too convenient to be a coincidence.

His logic is pretty much exactly what I was testing. Is he really bulletproof? In my mind, the Godfather is bulletproof. If he really was bulletproof, it's possible he was the godfather, and the nightscene would confirm my thought process and we could be having the conversation we're having now.

To answer his question, I can choose to kill whenever I want. I have just been lucky enough to logically deduce and have hunches that have worked out so far.

How does lynching a townie mean you have this game figured? I must have missed that.
Speaking of missing things, you still haven't answered my two questions.

There are redirector roles in existence. Whether or not one exists in this game I don't know for sure (I played KOTOR2 when I was 15, like 7 years ago). Could have redirected Zenox's NK from me to someone else.

This post is also important. Let's start off with the first line. He's not townie, he's trying to taunt me into questioning myself, or getting others on his side, blah blah blah, it's not going to work. I have no idea what question's he's talking about, to this very post.

However the third line is the most important. Reminder: he has confirmed not once, but twice he is bulletproof. I'd also like to remind you of his reasonings for soft-claiming he's bulletproof.

Viral Maze said:
I thought if the mafia/sith saw that it might evoke some sort of WIFOM response. If they targeted me thinking it was a gambit, great, nightkill wasted, if not, great, I survive.

This was his logic behind it. Great logic, I decided to call him on the bulletproof thing. Worked out well for me. In any case, let's chat a sec.

He mentions a role called the Redirector. Let's quote Mafiascum wiki to try and figure out exactly what this means.

[URL="http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Redirector" said:
Mafia Scum's Article on the Redirector Role[/URL]]A Redirector is a role that takes all actions that target one player at Night, and redirects them so that they target a second player instead.

this might be a little confusing, so allow me to give you an example.

I'm the Vigilante, my role is to kill. Let's say Josh is the redirector. If he wanted someone murdered, hey Zenox is the redirector, let's use his night ability on someone else.

Josh would select me, then let's say he wanted Kybyrian gone. he would basically tell Austin

"Redirect Zenox's night ability onto Kybyrian instead"

I, instead of killing my target, would kill Kybyrian instead.

Pretty good theory he has. One problem though, I don't buy that for a second. There is no way he actually thinks a redirector is in this game. Reminder: He has confirmed now that he is bulletproof three times, and his logic worked out for him. Someone did try to call him on it. I did. Why would someone who has a very reasonable excuse for his survival, need to bring up the option of a Redirector throwing my kill somewhere else? I don't know, maybe he was worried his plan wasn't working, so he tried to say, yes Darth Sion was targetted, but Zenox didn't actually hit who he thinks he hit.

Some of you at this point may question whether or not there would be two bulletproof roles on the same team. I am accusing Viral Maze of being the Bulletproof Mafia, not the godfather. Honestly, you can think whatever you want. I honestly think there is no godfather, and at the very least, if there is, he isn't bulletproof. Or Austin's a ******* mod and had two bulletproofs on the same team. I like the first theory best. It's a theory, nonetheless, the real thing to get by this post is, why does he need to theorize how he survived, now that he has basically confirmed it thrice now?

Def not a redirector. I am a townie bulletproof as my role description explained. There are stipulations, of course, to my role, but more or less bulletproof.
For the redirector thing, it could be a mafia role, (though I doubt it since why would the mafia player redirect the vig to the godfather?), or a townie that doesn't trust that Zenox is vig, but rather SK.
Those are the only two possible explanations I can come up with if we're going down the redirector route.

Here he's batting off the accusation that he is the Redirector. Let me say there is no way he (or anyone else in this game for that matter) is the redirector. First off, he claimed "Jedi Indomitable". This is nitpicky, but he's being inconsistent. First off, my role never actually said I was the Vigilante, it just described the Vigilante. I'm actually the Jedi Assassin. He's saying his role actually said he was "townie bulletproof". Whether or not you interpret this as me being nitpicky, or our good friend VM doesn't have a Jedi role PM is up to you.

In any case. Stipulations to his bulletproof. Has he elaborated? Not really. I assume this is simply he can be lynched, but nightkills won't work. I'll let it slide. The real thing to note is he's sticking to the redirector thing. To him, this redirector thing is buying me time, great. Let's go with it. But, ah-ah-ah, you claimed bulletproof and at the beginning of this day was using that to explain your survival. Now you're trying to play off that some other sap got targetted and this is just a huuuuge misunderstanding.

bull****.

Because I'm not a jester and would like to live >_>
If I just reiterate my role over and over, it stagnates discussion and I'll be dead. I'm trying to figure out why you hit Darth Sion when you tried to kill me. Redirector is all I can think of.

Alright, this is him, softclaiming townie this time. He's saying "yeah I'm bulletproof, I said it before and I'll say it again. I wasn't hit though, oh no, it was not me that was hit. Some other bulletproof sap was hit." Yeah ****ing right.

The thing you guys are all buying into is the fact that there is the slight possiblity that a Redirector is in this game. I honestly don't believe it. But hypothetically, what are the odds, that I targetted a softclaim bulletproof (Viral Maze), only for it to hit a bulletproof, but it's not Viral Maze. It's some other bulletproof. The odds of the redirector correctly guessing another bulletproof are next to none.

Again, this is assuming you do think a redirector is in this game. Let me reiterate: there is not.

So the main point of this is. First off, he plays that he's bulletproof, therefore he survived. But halfway through today he decides, but then again it's possible Zenox hit someone else.

So assuming the redirector is town, it seems like someone thought I was important enough to defend from a nightkill while the doc focused on keeping Zenox alive.
.

Wait, you do realize you're not told that I targetted you, right? You would've been none the wiser that the redirector saved you. The redirector also wouldn't be told who I was targetting, just that they are using the ability I have on someone of their choosing.

Another thing, just food for thought in this one.

REDIRECTOR, PLEASE CLAIM

You successfully hit the Godfather, and saved us from confirming Viral Maze's bulletproof story. Please come forward, claim who you are and state who you targetted instead. They are very clearly either the Bulletproof Mafia, as I have been saying, or the Godfather, as Viral Maze has been saying.

Hopefully, VM, this plan seems logical to you?
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 25, 2008
Location
In my house
ohhhh

I totally didn't understand the grey body parts flying around and all that ****.

Now I get it.

And now, for reasons I don't fully comprehend, I'm going to put my trust in you again for reasons I don't fully understand.

Vote: Viral Maze

Maybe the redirector doesn't want to claim?

Especially considering you're trying to hog the doctor every night, jackass. :(
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Location
Chula Vista, San Diego, CA
Especially considering you're trying to hog the doctor every night, jackass. :(

Speaking of which, want to reiterate my plan again, just in case you forget, you two.

DOCTOR: Heal me, after all I need to be alive for my plan
TOWN ROLEBLOCKER: Block Girl with a Fairy, I don't want her screwing with my kill tonight.

Hugs and kisses, love you.
 

Johnny Sooshi

Just a sleepy guy
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Location
a Taco Bell dumpster
Sorry Zenox, I've been following it, but I've been busy with a lot of other things today. My fault there so I'll try to make sure I can be as active as possible from now on.

Anyway, from the looks of things I'd say that GWAF, while being a potential problem, isn't nearly as problematic as Viral seems to be. I don't really know a ton of KOTOR or KOTOR2 lore, but after doing some research and rereading everything, I'd say that the idea that he's anti town is pretty flawless. His arguments and jumping aren't really helping a whole hell of a lot in my eyes either.

Vote: Viral Maze
 

Austin

Austin
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
VOTE TALLY

Viral Maze - 6 (Zenox, Dracomajora, Thareous, PK Flash, Josh, Darknut_Hunter)

Nine for a majority lynch.
 

Raindrop14

Soldier for Christ!
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Location
E-Arth
Phew, reading all those posts takes the life out pf somebody. Although I've only skimmed over them, as I don't have all the time in the world to read. I did notice a lot of bandwagonning at the beginning. Now, I'm not opposed to RVS, but I am opposed when it comes to senseless voting. We didn't have anything to go off of on the first day though, so I'm hanging from a thread here. My guess is that probably all or most of the mafia started bandwagonning on Poka after the first two or three RVs on him. I'll come up with stuff later when I have the time, but for now that is my imput.
 

Viral Maze

Verb the adjective noun
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Location
Canada
The post hurt my face, but I'll do my best to respond, Zenox.

First off, let me just interpret a few of Viral Maze's posts. His posts are inconsistent with his previous appearances in ZD Mafia games (assuming in the games he was a pro-town) He is normally very active in the investigations, and at some points leads investigations entirely. He normally plays very aggressively, and right now he is extraordinarily passive.
I was pretty passive last game (FullMetal Alchemist Mafia) even though I was public enemy number 1 for 3 days in a row. Metas usually aren't damning in and of themselves.



The main thing here, is Viral Maze soft-claimed Bulletproof. He has yet to state whether or not this is a pro-town or anti-town role (and never really does) I personally believe this was him setting up a safeguard just in case he was in fact hit by me (or any other source)
I actually do softclaim to being town bulletproof in that same post, not that it matters really. It can be taken either way, really, and you seem set in the way you're perceiving it. But for everyone else:

I do agree with you however, on the order of the dialogue, that the other machine is HK-50, since I definitely don't think ALiT is a bulletproof townie.

Alright, this post is important. Let's go back to the first post I quoted, and then the second. First post is what he's referencing. He says he made it pretty clear he was bulletproof. Honestly, to me, without him having to actually point to that part, I just read it thinking he simply thought ALIT wasn't bulletproof, nothing more. Then he references it. "Hey, remember this? I'm bulletproof." He's using his safeguard to his advantage, trying to play off his death as "Oh, I'm the bulletproof, that's okay" Don't worry, he's not lying. He is bulletproof. Let's keep going.
Again I think you're reaching. You're trying to fit this into the way you see things. I wasn't going to brazenly claim I was bulletproof town on Day 2. My exact words were "I definitely don't think ALiT is a bulletproof townie." There would be no way I'd be 'definitely' sure unless I had that role myself. My reasons for doing so were already stated. I wanted Mafia to waste a nightkill on me.

He then accusses me of being serial killer. I can't name claim, so there's no real way for me to clear whether or not I'm serial killer (I assure you, I'm not.) But this is curious to me.
Not an accusation. Just putting it out there. You scored mafia yesterday and are attempting to score town today, so it had me thinking. I don't think HK-47 would be a bad guy, but he was never really a "good guy". Just followed the Main Character because he/she repaired him.



I have no idea what question's he's talking about, to this very post.
The 2 about if you have to kill every night and why you chose me. Like I said afterwards, I was ninja'd by your response, so I said to ignore that part.

He mentions a role called the Redirector. Let's quote Mafiascum wiki to try and figure out exactly what this means.



this might be a little confusing, so allow me to give you an example.

I'm the Vigilante, my role is to kill. Let's say Josh is the redirector. If he wanted someone murdered, hey Zenox is the redirector, let's use his night ability on someone else.

Josh would select me, then let's say he wanted Kybyrian gone. he would basically tell Austin

"Redirect Zenox's night ability onto Kybyrian instead"

I, instead of killing my target, would kill Kybyrian instead.
You seem confused. By your quote of MafiaWiki, here:
"A Redirector is a role that takes all actions that target one player at Night, and redirects them so that they target a second player instead."
A redirector works in moving everything that targets Player A onto Player B. I am Player A. Whomever is Sion is Player B. Redirector doesn't need to target the origin of the power role (you), just the target(me). Like I've said before, you're seeing things the way you want to see them. Doesn't mean its right.

Why would someone who has a very reasonable excuse for his survival, need to bring up the option of a Redirector throwing my kill somewhere else?
You're stumbling over yourself now. I said there could be a redirector to further explain why I am not dead, and why I am not who you think I am. I sure as **** am not made of grey flesh, so there has to be another explanation. The only thing I can think of redirector.

the real thing to get by this post is, why does he need to theorize how he survived, now that he has basically confirmed it thrice now?
Actually, my first few posts were just me saying I am the town's bulletproof. It was only after, when 4 (out of 9, to lynch) votes got tacked on, and after Thereus mentioned 'ricochet' nightkill did I bring up redirector. It's the only thing that explains why you hit Sion and not me. You're tunnel-visioning now.

First off, he claimed "Jedi Indomitable". This is nitpicky, but he's being inconsistent. First off, my role never actually said I was the Vigilante, it just described the Vigilante. I'm actually the Jedi Assassin. He's saying his role actually said he was "townie bulletproof". Whether or not you interpret this as me being nitpicky, or our good friend VM doesn't have a Jedi role PM is up to you.
V___________V My role does say I am Jedi Indomitable. The description is that of a bulletproof townie, thus why I've been saying bulletproof townie. Again, tunnel-vision. You're seeing my posts the way you want to see them.

Stipulations to his bulletproof. Has he elaborated? Not really.
I'm sure this stipulation is obvious >_> I'm a one-shot.


Wait, you do realize you're not told that I targetted you, right? You would've been none the wiser that the redirector saved you. The redirector also wouldn't be told who I was targetting, just that they are using the ability I have on someone of their choosing.
It was an 'assumption'. The redirector doesn't work like you think, as I've stated above.


Hopefully, VM, this plan seems logical to you?
Trade the life of our 'second doctor' for Sion? I'm totally fine with that, even if it means that player's death.
 

Raindrop14

Soldier for Christ!
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Location
E-Arth
Okay, just did a little deeper searching, although only of the last few pages. Xinnamin has not (to my current knowledge) contributed at all except voting and making posts that do not technically partain to the game. She seems to just be laying low, surprisingly un-noticed, and picking off the town as a mafia member. I don't have a whole lot of evidence, but my gut says she's scum.

Vote: Xinnamin
 

Ronin

There you are! You monsters!
Forum Volunteer
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Location
Alrest
Okay, just did a little deeper searching, although only of the last few pages. Xinnamin has not (to my current knowledge) contributed at all except voting and making posts that do not technically partain to the game. She seems to just be laying low, surprisingly un-noticed, and picking off the town as a mafia member. I don't have a whole lot of evidence, but my gut says she's scum.

Vote: Xinnamin

Uh...Xinn was Night Killed this last time. :silent:

*EBWODP*

The droid follows its mark into yet another secluded location. It quietly waits for the trap it laid to be sprung. 3... 2... 1...

*BOOM*

A large explosion lights up the alley. The droid waits for his visual receptors to adjust to the sudden change of light, and sees a million grey pieces of flesh scattered about. Satisfied that its done the job tonight, the droid leaves the area before anyone discovers him. After he's left, all those pieces of grey flesh start to come back together, forming the shape of a man. The man shakes his head, grunts, and reassumes his disguise.

Meanwhile, Xinnamin was restless and decided to pace a bit not far outside the survivor camp. Suddenly, three lightsabers came towards her. Although she fought back against them, they almost seemed to have a will of their own. Eventually, she couldn't fight back against the onslaught and dropped her blade. The next morning, the survivors found her corpse.

Xinnamin was Visas Marr, a Jedi Ally !




- The Dead -
PokaLink - Mical, a Jedi Ally (lynched Day 1)
Kybyrian - Atton Rand, the Jedi Sleuth (nightkilled Night 1)
A Link In Time - Darth Nihlus, a Sith (lynched Day 2)
Xinnamin - Visas Marr, a Jedi Ally (nightkilled Night 2)


- Remaining Players -
1) Zenox
2) Josh
3) Kazumi
4) Erebea
5) Raindrop14
6) Thareous
7) Darknut_Hunter
8) Dracomajora
9) Pendio
10) Rachel
11) Viral Maze
12) TheMasterSword
13) Keeseman
14) Durion
15) PK Flash
16) GirlWithAFairy

Everyone got their responses in quickly, good job guys! The day will end Friday, January 25th (implying it will last more than twelve hours). Nine votes are needed for a majority lynch. Good luck.

Right here.
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Location
Chula Vista, San Diego, CA
Not an accusation. Just putting it out there. You scored mafia yesterday and are attempting to score town today, so it had me thinking. I don't think HK-47 would be a bad guy, but he was never really a "good guy". Just followed the Main Character because he/she repaired him.

Visas Marr. That's all I'm saying.

Trade the life of our 'second doctor' for Sion? I'm totally fine with that, even if it means that player's death.

Whether the role you think hit Sion instead of you is the Redirector as you described, or the hacker (that's what we named it for Pokemafia, it was Bill. Worked how I described. I made it up [though I'm sure a role working the exact way has been used before] so pardon me for the confusion. I simply interpreted that as being the common name of the Hacker role) In any case, either one of those roles could have screwed with my kill and hit Sion. If it's the "second doctor" or guy who messes with other peoples night abilities. Either way, they know who the real Sion is, and now would the Real Slim Shady, please stand up?

I have no reason to believe either of these roles are in this game. There is just no ... I don't know. You'd think if that sort of ability messed with my kill, Austin would explain why I hit someone other than who I meant to attack in the nightscene. It just doesn't seem really all that possible to me.
 
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