• Welcome to ZD Forums! You must create an account and log in to see and participate in the Shoutbox chat on this main index page.

It's not really Ganondorf

Pokémaniac13

Triforce Champion
Joined
May 14, 2022
Location
New Mauville
So we're coming closer to an agreement. I agree that Ganondorf really needs to be fleshed out much more to be a more interesting antagonist, although I doubt it will satisfy your expectations. However, seeing more of a side of him of which we actually see whole reasonings besides "I'm doing it cuz I'm evil" is already the correct start. Who knows, we might see pieces of this direction in the sequel?

Bold part: Better than grr-I'm-the-bad-guy-but-since-you-lifted-my-curse-I'm-good-now-yeaaah
I mostly disagree. But that ending? Too good. Also, I don’t think he would be good, just not evil. Neutral.
 
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Gender
Male
I mostly disagree. But that ending? Too good. Also, I don’t think he would be good, just not evil. Neutral.

Um, you can be evil whilst having many motives or actual reasons, so I don't see what speaks against this one. Ngl, the "neutral" part is long lost as long as Ganondorf is in this malicious condition. He's more filled with hatred than any other Ganon version.
 

Pokémaniac13

Triforce Champion
Joined
May 14, 2022
Location
New Mauville
Which brings me back to MY theory: Calamity Ganon is a corrupted Hero of the Wild. In which case, this entire argument becomes irrelevant, and we all agree to disagree. Eh?
 

Bowsette Plus-Ultra

wah
ZD Legend
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Location
Iowa
Gender
Lizard
So we're coming closer to an agreement. I agree that Ganondorf really needs to be fleshed out much more to be a more interesting antagonist, although I doubt it will satisfy your expectations. However, seeing more of a side of him of which we actually see whole reasonings besides "I'm doing it cuz I'm evil" is already the correct start. Who knows, we might see pieces of this direction in the sequel?

Bold part: Better than grr-I'm-the-bad-guy-but-since-you-lifted-my-curse-I'm-good-now-yeaaah

I feel like the misconception is that I just want Ganon to flip a switch and go full good guy protagonist right away. That's probably how Nintendo would write it, but that's not what I want. I'd like to see a developed Ganon who shifts from something less stereotypically and blandly evil into something more nuanced. Something more neutral-good. That development should be key to the story.

And then characterize Link while they're at it.
 

mαrkαsscoρ

Mr. SidleInYourDMs
Joined
May 5, 2012
Location
American Wasteland
This Ganondorf is the most malicious one of the entire series; so him turning good would mean that Ganondorf gets rid of every single negative emotion or malicious intent which was built so far - that's the thing which bothers me. It just doesn't go along with his entire portrayal throughout the series. Demise' curse is for all evil being the incarnation of his hatred as the japanese translation highlighted this. Getting rid of the curse means that you're getting rid of the entire monsters and enemies too, and I doubt the entire Zelda timeline ends with BotW2 tbh.
We really don't know the story behind this version of ganondorf, so I think it'd be too quick to assume that him turning not evil is out of the question

also it makes zero difference if this is the end of the timeline b/c they could easily hop to another one for a new game
 

Bowsette Plus-Ultra

wah
ZD Legend
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Location
Iowa
Gender
Lizard
We really don't know the story behind this version of ganondorf, so I think it'd be too quick to assume that him turning not evil is out of the question

also it makes zero difference if this is the end of the timeline b/c they could easily hop to another one for a new game

Bold of you to assume they've ever taken the timeline into account when writing any Zelda game. :eyes:
 

mαrkαsscoρ

Mr. SidleInYourDMs
Joined
May 5, 2012
Location
American Wasteland
Bold of you to assume they've ever taken the timeline into account when writing any Zelda game. :eyes:
that's sorta what I'm saying, for most of the franchise's history, the NES games were the furthest in the timeline, so it's meaningless what the last chronological game is
plus we've heard that they always focus on gameplay first and just make a story around it
 
In Riddle's defense, he's riding that line of being considered a force of nature cuz you figure he's more a personification of primal instinct, but is intelligent enough to have it be a personal threat as well. Calamity Ganon actually probably falls under a similar blend, but the whole deal with the malice has definitely had him inching more toward being a total force of nature, and since he was previously human, maybe there's more to him you could empathize with in realizing that the abomination you see in Breath of the Wild used to be a person.

There are lots of cases of villains that have lost their minds, and just because they're evil now seemingly for the sake of being evil, there's context to what may have driven them to that point. That doesn't mean they didn't have a personality/weren't a character at some time, and if anything, their being reduced to mindlessness might make them compelling in their own right. They don't need to redeem themselves. Most villains are villains because their character arc had already occurred prior to the story and they weren't able to confront their flaw.
 

Mikey the Moblin

sushi is a suspicious hello
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Location
southworst united states
Gender
Dude
And it makes for a cool boss, but not a compelling villain. Ridley is a cool creature to fight, but not the sort of villain with any compelling motivation or personality.
As if the majora one didn't already, this makes it clear you'd say anything to defend the idea of Ganon being a terrible villain

What do you think of the reverse flash
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Location
Ohio
Gender
tree
I might make my own thread on this where I can go into further detail, but there's an alternative solution that I don't think has been brought up yet. As some have pointed out, it is indeed possible for a jet black villain to be an interesting antagonist, as there are many examples. Ninty clearly wants Ganon to be one of them, but I think I know the reason he falls short where the others succeed. Think of all your favorite baddies and why you love them; I'm willing to bet it's not because you were told how evil they were, but rather because you got to see them in action.

There's a theory based on unused sound files in WW that Ganondorf would have killed Jabun; that would have been nice to see in a game where he just stands and talks for 90% of his screen time. I believe this is the true reason Ganon is such a lame villain; Nintendo never wants to do anything but hide him until the end of the game, while expecting us to just hate him because they said so. If they could simply give him more presence in the story and let him carry out his deeds in real time, I'd be all for his Muahaha Mustache Twirling presentation.

Of course, villains like that get old after a while, so obviously they're going to have to give him some depth sooner or later, but I believe this could be the starting point for making Ganon... less of an embarrassment, at least.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom