• Welcome to ZD Forums! You must create an account and log in to see and participate in the Shoutbox chat on this main index page.

Ghiraham = Same Influence to Series As Ganondorf

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
I sort off agree with you but I could see something like he being a bad guy in this game and due to its events his plan is thwarted but he finds out about many hylian legends such as the triforce. Then in a sequel he and his followers (who could be the dark interlopers) plan to try and take the triforce as seen in Lanayru's vision in TP.

They never took the Triforce. That scene Lanayru showed Link was when they were sealed.
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2011
Maybe he'll be in other games too. He is a new villain, but even though it's the same in OoT, Vaati was a new villain but he was only in a few other games so...i don't know what will happen. I would be cool if the same thing happened though.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
Maybe he'll be in other games too. He is a new villain, but even though it's the same in OoT, Vaati was a new villain but he was only in a few other games so...i don't know what will happen. I would be cool if the same thing happened though.

Again, I'm certain he won't be. Vaati only appeared more than once because he was part of a series. I'm certain this guy is a "dark interloper", so he's gonna be a one-time villain. He's a cool villain, though.
 

Turo602

Vocare Ad Pugnam
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Location
Gotham City
Theorizing? I don't theorize. I'm stating what was in the games, especially with The Wind Waker. And with the "timeline" thing, that's actually not entirely correct. About half the games are officially connected into a canon. The others are unofficial, but the first four games do only have one place they can go. I'm not gonna get into that, though. The point is, there is a "timeline", it's just not able to be completely connected properly.

Saying that one Ganon sounds like another can lead one to infer that you believe them to be one the same. Sounds like theorizing to me because that wasn't real proof, just you jumping to a conclusion because you believe that to be the case because things are similar to one another. All your doing is trying to connect the dots but not giving me any factual info.

Nintendo doesn't just sit around and try to mess with our heads. They don't care too much about the "timeline", but that doesn't mean that certain games don't connect. The Wind Waker is a sequel to the time Link left behind in Ocarina of Time. Majora's Mask takes place soon after the end of Ocarina of Time in the time Link came back to. Twilight Princess comes some amount of generations after Majora's Mask. The DS games are sequels to The Wind Waker. A Link to the Past was a prequel to the original two games. How can you say that these games don't connect? They're stated to, and have direct connections, not just little easter eggs.

Sequels are obvious. But saying that Twilight Princess comes some amount of generations after Majora's Mask means nothing. Where did this info come from. When did Nintendo say this? You could find all the connections in the world, but each game is its own thing. Even the sequels have nothing to do with it's predecessor. There is no timeline. Nintendo went with it because it got popular but had no real answer for what game goes were. They gave multiple answers that made no sense.

Why can't a reference just be a reference these days?
 
Last edited:

Cuju

私はカウントダウンを実行します。
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Location
Canada
I really want Ganondorf to be in this game, I really really want it! I don't care what people say, I have seen far from enough of Ganondorf, and I think there is no problem with him appearing. Ganon(dorf) hasn't been in too many games anyway, let's see, he was in Oot, Wind Waker and Twilight Princess... And how many times has bowser been in a Mario game? The games with Ganon don't count, as he pretty much acted like a blue Bowser...
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
I really want Ganondorf to be in this game, I really really want it! I don't care what people say, I have seen far from enough of Ganondorf, and I think there is no problem with him appearing. Ganon(dorf) hasn't been in too many games anyway, let's see, he was in Oot, Wind Waker and Twilight Princess... And how many times has bowser been in a Mario game? The games with Ganon don't count, as he pretty much acted like a blue Bowser...

I can understand what you're saying, but there's no way he's in this game. His origins are in Ocarina of Time.
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Location
Mccomb, MS
I think Ghirahim is gonna be an awesome new villain. He seems even more malicious than Twilight Princess Ganondorf. He calls himself "The Demon Lord", and none of the main antagonists have ever really been given a title before. That aside does anyone else beside me absolutely LOVE the design of Zelda in this game??? Skyward Sword Zelda is by far my favorite Zelda yet.
 
T

Treasure_Dog

Guest
I really want Ganondorf to be in this game, I really really want it!
Me too ;_;

And I don't want Ghirahim to be the same influence to series as Ganon/Ganondorf. Ghirahim is cool and all but... NO.
Also I really don't think that he will appear in any game else. Don't know why but I think so.
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2010
Maybe Ghirahim will pop up again in titles after WW and/or TP. If he's an interloper (I kind of think he is) and becomes a Twili, and if Twili live for a long, long time, then there could be a game set after TP with Midna and Twili Ghirahim in it. That would be awesome!
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
Saying that one Ganon sounds like another can lead one to infer that you believe them to be one the same. Sounds like theorizing to me because that wasn't real proof, just you jumping to a conclusion because you believe that to be the case because things are similar to one another. All your doing is trying to connect the dots but not giving me any factual info.

Again, I'm not theorizing. I don't theorize. I observe info and draw conclusions from the info that's given to us, not just "it could be" things. And I'm pretty sure that something like "a child who grew up in the desert" is something that doesn't hint, but rather something that tells us. Ganondorf grew up in the desert. He was more evil than any of the Gerudo. Yeah, that sounds like what they were trying to say there. I did give you actual information. You just think I didn't because of the way you view the games' connections.

Sequels are obvious. But saying that Twilight Princess comes some amount of generations after Majora's Mask means nothing. Where did this info come from. When did Nintendo say this? You could find all the connections in the world, but each game is its own thing. Even the sequels have nothing to do with it's predecessor. There is no timeline. Nintendo went with it because it got popular but had no real answer for what game goes were. They gave multiple answers that made no sense.

Why can't a reference just be a reference these days?

Yes, sequels are obvious. Which is why those games are official. Nintendo confirms them. Aonuma directly said that TP comes after MM and runs parallel to WW, meaning that they're on separate timelines, which would be the split created at the end of OoT. WW is clearly a sequel to the time Link left behind in OoT (and is confirmed to be), and PH & ST come after it. Those are confirmed by Nintendo. PH is a direct sequel to WW. If you can't tell that just through the characters, you're blind. And ST comes 2 generations after PH, as Tetra is Zelda's grandmother in the game (directly stated), and Niko from WW and PH is also in the game, along with Gonzo's son, Alfonzo. MM is a direct sequel to OoT, and TP comes after OoT, therefore TP comes after MM. And, again, it's stated. Ask anyone else around here and they'll tell you the same thing.
 
Last edited:

Turo602

Vocare Ad Pugnam
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Location
Gotham City
Stop providing your thoughts of a timeline as fact. Again, all you're doing is connecting the dots and trying to say that it is fact when in fact the timeline doesn't exist. Even with the littlest things, "a child who grew up in a desert". If you go by that logic then Link is the same guy in each game. He wears green, that says something.

Sure, some games have connections, I'll give you that. But they mean nothing. That is not going to affect the next game in one bit. It's not going to contradict it. Point is, Ganon could be in the damn game if he wanted to. No damn Zelda game is going to affect another one that much when the timeline isn't real. Who's to say that an ancestor can't be in it. Why not his father or another incarnation. Stop limiting yourselves to what other games that take place after it tell you.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Location
UK
Anyone else noticed that rearanging this guys name spells Agharim, just like aghanim..I wonder if that means anything.
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Location
Redmond, Washington
Turo, there is a timeline. One only needs to glance at the developer quotes page to see that. However, if our interviews section was working I could pull up several quotes saying that they don't like the timeline to limit their creativity. Bottom line is that even though it doesn't make sense currently for a Ganon/dorf to appear before OoT, they can still make it happen and make it make sense. I can even see a few ways they could do it. It would require rearranging just about all notions of Ganon that we currently have, but it's possible. But despite that, since it doesn't make sense now, I think most theorists (and people who observe and draw conclusions) will follow Ockham's razor in assuming that he won't be in the game. That doesn't mean it's impossible, only unlikely enough to make that assumption. If there are two apples and an orange in a bin and you blindly pull one out (with gloves on, etc.), and if you had to guess what kind of fruit you pulled out, you'd guess it's an apple. Perhaps a better analogy would be if you had three apples in the bin, and closed your eyes long enough for anyone to have the opportunity to place an orange in it. Without any evidence of oranges being added, you'd still guess that any fruit you pull out is an apple, even though the possibility is there that it could be an orange.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
Stop providing your thoughts of a timeline as fact. Again, all you're doing is connecting the dots and trying to say that it is fact when in fact the timeline doesn't exist. Even with the littlest things, "a child who grew up in a desert". If you go by that logic then Link is the same guy in each game. He wears green, that says something.

I'm using in-game information and quotes. How is that opinion? It's not. What you're saying is opinion. Plus, all you keep doing is using the same argument. Back what you're saying up with some hardcore evidence like I did.

Sure, some games have connections, I'll give you that. But they mean nothing. That is not going to affect the next game in one bit. It's not going to contradict it. Point is, Ganon could be in the damn game if he wanted to. No damn Zelda game is going to affect another one that much when the timeline isn't real. Who's to say that an ancestor can't bein it. Why not his father or another incarnation. Stop limiting yourselves to what other games that take place after it tell you.

Means nothing? So you're saying what Miyamoto and Aonuma say is nothing then? Your logic here is completely based off of your own opinions.

Turo, there is a timeline. One only needs to glance at the developer quotes page to see that. However, if our interviews section was working I could pull up several quotes saying that they don't like the timeline to limit their creativity. Bottom line is that even though it doesn't make sense currently for a Ganon/dorf to appear before OoT, they can still make it happen and make it make sense. I can even see a few ways they could do it. It would require rearranging just about all notions of Ganon that we currently have, but it's possible. But despite that, since it doesn't make sense now, I think most theorists (and people who observe and draw conclusions) will follow Ockham's razor in assuming that he won't be in the game. That doesn't mean it's impossible, only unlikely enough to make that assumption. If there are two apples and an orange in a bin and you blindly pull one out (with gloves on, etc.), and if you had to guess what kind of fruit you pulled out, you'd guess it's an apple. Perhaps a better analogy would be if you had three apples in the bin, and closed your eyes long enough for anyone to have the opportunity to place an orange in it. Without any evidence of oranges being added, you'd still guess that any fruit you pull out is an apple, even though the possibility is there that it could be an orange.

Yes, I agree with everything you said there. It is true that Nintendo could rewrite everything to put Ganon(dorf) in the game as it's their series. But we all know Nintendo isn't going to change everything up on us, as it would just cause a bunch of confusion, and fans would not appreciate that. And I generally don't go with Occam's Razor as a real argument, but it works perfectly with things in a canon, as what's there is what's given to us. You can't accurately base the "timeline" off of supposition.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom