Complex Sword Maneuvers

[ihateghirahim]

Swordplay had been involved in every Zelda game. It's essential to the Zelda formula. Through MM we see it used for simple things. Link hits switches, cuts grass, slashes foes,and often you have to hit a foe in a certain place, but its was never that complicated.
In WW we start getting complex sword maneuvers. We can now roll around and slash or jump up and attack a foe's head.
TP took this to a new level. We not only have more complex maneuvers, but we have Ending Blow. This requires us to leap up and impale a fallen enemy, and its required to advance in the game.
SS ditches these maneuvers and instead uses an almost 1-1 controlled forward attack system. Link now has to slash in different direction, stab, rotate his sword, do Ending Blow (I forget what they call it in SS), and even bash enemies with his shield.

It's become so complex. We used to have a simple sword attack and a simple shield to block attacks or reflect light and magic. Does anyone else want more games with good-ol-fashioned simple swordplay?

 

[Ventus]

(I forget what they call it in SS)

Fatal Blow.

It's become so complex. We used to have a simple sword attack and a simple shield to block attacks or reflect light and magic. Does anyone else want more games with good-ol-fashioned simple swordplay?

I do want more good-ol-fashioned simple swordplay. It feels more at home, and much more playable, let alone much more accessible.

 

[JuicieJ]

It's become so complex. We used to have a simple sword attack and a simple shield to block attacks or reflect light and magic. Does anyone else want more games with good-ol-fashioned simple swordplay?

Why would I? It's not so much that it's become complex, but rather it's seen a lot of depth added to it. The mechanics themselves are still simple. It's not hard to grasp Skyward Sword's control scheme. The execution just takes more skill and planning than before. This is a good thing. Zelda's combat in the past was often overly-simple. There wasn't much substance to the mechanics. SS finally changed that, and it's something that should never be left behind, even in button-controlled games. We may be limited to pre-set swings in those games, but we can still swing vertically & horizontally, as well as stab. Precision swinging is still a completely viable option (and something Zelda quite honestly should have taken advantage of in the past). I say only add more depth. Make it even BETTER.

 

[Spirit]

Even with TP, WW and SS i don't feel that the swordplay has become too complex at all and SS it felt as if the sword play regressed into something simpler than what we had seen in MM and OoT.
To me WW is the most complex because there is timing involved, the hidden skills in TP, while numerous, weren't difficult to perform so it isn't like we had long combos of button presses to screw up to make Link perform one. WW also had high and low combos that you had control over and using the wrong combo on the wrong enemy could prove fatal for Link.

comparisons aside though going off TP and WW i wouldnt want the sword play to get much more complicated than these two, i'd like Link to have an almost Dante style of sword play and combos, i'd love to see Link use the Million stab in a game but DMc doesn't have a difficult control system either. I think the sword play should stay as simple as it was in TP and WW, based on timing or performing different moves or not the schemes still weren't hard to utilise while playing, if the sword play became too complicated then it'd make that game a lot less enjoyable for me, but then again if we had a simplified game again like SS, it'd do the same thing for me. I think WW and TP is a good level for as intricate as the sword play should get.

 

[The Marshal]

Voted no.

With a simple combat scheme, the battles get old repetitive. Smashing the same 2 keys over and over again, vs different enemies gets boring. Now if there was more strategy and precision involved the battles would be much more interesting.

Although it is a doble-edged sword. Too much complication could make things frustrating.

In my opinion there should be a balance between simple and complicated.

 

[LinkBreh]

No I think the Swordplay should be more advanced, especially in the new games. Having final blows and the ability to smash enemies with your shield is something a true swordsman would do...and isn't Link a true swordsman?

 

[Demise_]

If by "good ol' fashined" you mean only being able to stab like in Loz, no.

To be serious though, I love the hidden skills in TP. I feel like SS was a kind of regression; you could control your sword precisely but it was limited to slashes and stabs. If they made a game with TP's skills and SS's basic slash controls, it would be awesome.

Also, in OoT you could control the direction of the stab. However, it required complex combinations of buttons, and wasn't required in combat. (In fact, it could be annyoing, seeing as targeting and pressing "up" on the control stick while pressing B makes you stab; while battling Dark Link, you'll probably be targeting; and if you stab, he annoys you and can hurt you. So you had to be careful either not to advance while attacking, or not to use targeting. However, this is the only example where the way you used your sword in OoT actually matters.)

 

[Heroine of Time]

Why would I? It's not so much that it's become complex, but rather it's seen a lot of depth added to it. The mechanics themselves are still simple. It's not hard to grasp Skyward Sword's control scheme. The execution just takes more skill and planning than before. This is a good thing. Zelda's combat in the past was often overly-simple. There wasn't much substance to the mechanics. SS finally changed that, and it's something that should never be left behind, even in button-controlled games. We may be limited to pre-set swings in those games, but we can still swing vertically & horizontally, as well as stab. Precision swinging is still a completely viable option (and something Zelda quite honestly should have taken advantage of in the past). I say only add more depth. Make it even BETTER.

I agree completely. I find it odd that all the people replying to the thread save Ventus have said no, yet there are four votes for yes. I'd love to hear from you guys. I honestly can't figure out what you mean in the opening post by "simpler swordplay". Like JJ said, why would you want it to be SIMPLER? I don't understand. Personally, the only reason I could see is if things are too complex (which they DEFINITELY aren't) or nostalgia. I like playing the old games, but only because they're old. Parry attacks were fun. Hidden Skills were incredible. MotionPlus was amazing. If we released a game with the OoT control scheme now, I'd think the controls were poor. Why? We'd be downgrading completely. That just seems silly, especially since people are obviously able to handle the new controls. Not to mention that in TWW and TP, all of that was entirely optional. If you wanted, you could have just used your sword as usual. The only time those moves were required was during final boss fights.

No, they shouldn't be simpler. There's absolutely no reason to regress to the past. Personally, I'd like to see the return of the previous "complex" moves, and perhaps more of them in addition to the improvements. Swordplay in TP was much more interesting than before thanks to the skills, and SS's controls were fantastically immersive. I truly hope both of those return in the next game.

 

[HyruleHistory10]

I want it to advance but i would also like a bit more of the classic approach. I like using the B button to attack (dont get me wrong i LOVED SS controls). Plus with the gamepad i do not think we will have an option for motion controls though something like a combo where you have to draw directions or seals on the gamepad screen quickly like the glory of heracles (and for those of you who have not played it the spells that you have had the OPTION to be powered up my playing 'mini-game' like thing where you had to accomplish certains tasks (like match numbers in order or tap circles as the got to a certain size) within a certain timelimit to power up your attacks).

 

[The Windfish]

Fatal Blow.


I do want more good-ol-fashioned simple swordplay. It feels more at home, and much more playable, let alone much more accessible.

I agree to an extent, while it does give it an 'ol' fashioned' game feel, it all creates simplicity with the battle. While on the other hand, the SS , TP, and WW fighting styles began to give us a more complex fighting style, allowing for more variety.

EDIT:

One thing I disliked in that they had was the fatal blow, as shown in WW...
Honestly it gave away to a powerful attack, which could cause people to just spam that attack, rather than forming a strategy. :cukeman:

 

[Ventus]

I agree to an extent, while it does give it an 'ol' fashioned' game feel, it all creates simplicity with the battle. While on the other hand, the SS , TP, and WW fighting styles began to give us a more complex fighting style, allowing for more variety.

Variety is only useful when it's put to good use. I'd say that it wasn't put to good use in any of the modern 3D titles. TP and TWW had flashy moves, yeah, but to what effect? Who cares if I can pull off a Mortal Draw if all foes die in one-two hits anyway? Why should I care if I can parry when beating the brains out of the enemeies in TWW is simple enough?

Similarly, SS' whole "you can slash in multiple directions" grab was put to no good use; all foes felt the same (to me). :I

I doubt Nintendo—or Zelda—is ready to evolve into very deep combat just yet. So, instead of dillydallying in what's really an alternative to the basic OoT/MM combat (yes, an alternative, not a progression), just keep the simple stuff until the big N will put forth effort to make a "deep" combat system, complete with foes that can take a hit as well as deal multiple kinds of hits themselves. :I :I

 

[DekuPrincess]

I'm a yes, but. I want basic swordplay to be simpler--although I have nothing against the motion controls and swordplay in SS in general, it isn't always very relaxing to have to think so much about how I'm swinging my sword. Sometimes you just want to whack away mindlessly and although you can flail in SS it's not really as satisfying to me. That being said, I love having optional fancy moves ala TP, and would love to see that kind of complexity evolve, an optional level of swordplay based on timing. positioning, and targeting.

 

[EternalNocturne]

I'm not speaking on anybody's behalf here besides mine -- I honestly like flashy moves that might or might not ultimately amount to nothing much being done on the enemy. I wouldn't want it to be overkill like how some other games have it (you end up not being able to see anything on the screen), but I'd love it if they went in the direction of how they handled Twilight Princess's Hidden Skills and make it a little flashier. ^_^

Of course, I wouldn't want them to sacrifice fluid controls for petty aesthetics. I'd like the combat to look fresh and make it appear that Link knows how to handle a sword skillfully instead of just swinging it in preset directions plus a few Spin Attacks. (That being said, SS Link's backflip Spin Attack was nice. )

 

[JuicieJ]

(That being said, SS Link's backflip Spin Attack was nice. )

Defying the laws of physics ftw.

 

[HylianHero]

Defying the laws of physics ftw.

Yeah, I saw him do that and was like "Wow, that was awesome! Wait....how...." Still cool though.