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Cheater

Joined
Mar 15, 2020
Location
United States
Like that time I unloaded the great plateau lynel's ai on master mode and like walked in circles with him for awhile and with my like uhh soldiers greatsword i think?

IMO you cheated. Even if you can do it without any sort of codes or outside resources, it's blatantly clear that that's not supposed to happen and that's not the challenge the game developers intended. I've always considered cheesing to be finding a tactic that is intended to be technically possible but removes most/all of the skill or difficulty. Exploiting glitches or oversights is cheating as far as I'm concerned.
 

Bowsette Plus-Ultra

wah
ZD Legend
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Location
Iowa
Gender
Lizard
IMO you cheated. Even if you can do it without any sort of codes or outside resources, it's blatantly clear that that's not supposed to happen and that's not the challenge the game developers intended. I've always considered cheesing to be finding a tactic that is intended to be technically possible but removes most/all of the skill or difficulty. Exploiting glitches or oversights is cheating as far as I'm concerned.

I mean, it's a singleplayer game. Cheating is kind of irrelevant as long as it isn't being used to negatively affect another player's experience.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Location
England
Gender
Female
I'll occasionally use exploits, but never do anything that changes the gameplay much.

It just feels 'tainted' in some way, and I lose motivation to play if I do something too cheaty.
 

Ninja

Well well well
Joined
Jul 5, 2017
I agree with the general mindset here that the first playthrough should be legit, however second ones are all open for cheats and hacks. I really enjoy playing games on PC now as there is so much more freedoms with mods and trainers.
 

Shroom

The Artist Formally Known as Deku Shroom™
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Gender
Fun Guy
IMO you cheated. Even if you can do it without any sort of codes or outside resources, it's blatantly clear that that's not supposed to happen and that's not the challenge the game developers intended. I've always considered cheesing to be finding a tactic that is intended to be technically possible but removes most/all of the skill or difficulty. Exploiting glitches or oversights is cheating as far as I'm concerned.

I think you misunderstood Satan. They were saying that they just confused the lynel, not actually messed with its AI. Weapons don't break from mounted attacks, and lynels can't really do much if you just keep jumping on them, so I mean, it's just a really cheesed method, not an actual tampering of anything. Technically possible, exploiting the mounting and enemy AI.
 

TheGreatCthulhu

Composer of the Night.
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Location
United States of America
Gender
Very much a dude.
Depends on how you define cheating.

In general, I avoid cheating, which I define as glitching the game, changing the code, or such to gain an unfair advantage.

However, cheese strategies, AI exploits, and such I don't define as cheating, necessarily.

With some mods on the PC, I also wouldn't consider to be cheating, but that, in itself, is a whole different topic.

First playthrough should be legitimate, as others have said.
 
IMO you cheated. Even if you can do it without any sort of codes or outside resources, it's blatantly clear that that's not supposed to happen and that's not the challenge the game developers intended.
people who fight two lynels at once in the tabantha snowfield are cheaters, then? thats literally the same kiting strategy i used. devs definitely didnt intend for you to fight two lynels at once... botw is a game where people would discover things that the developers didnt "intend" but the devs welcomed that. day one, people were finding these things. at the kiosk demo at e3, people found these things. it's not cheating. flying machine, bomb parries, stasis catapults, riding guardians into battle, etc. none of that was intended on behalf of the devs. might as well say wavedashing in melee is cheating lol

back when i played botw i fought lynels a lot. i was quite good at it. i dont see how having a memey fight with them every so often just because i could is cheating. it gets boring doing the same thing every single time. its called having fun with a game that is intended by the devs for there to be no clear cut way to overcome any fight or obstacle. shrine skipping, although ive never done it, is not cheating either.

you definition of cheesing also is bizarre because like apart from like draygon in super metroid and tennis matches in zelda i cant think of cases where cheeses are intentionally programmed. like sure im sure theres subjectivity to the definition of that but saying anything the devs didnt 'intend' is automatically cheating actually makes me angry.
 
Joined
Mar 15, 2020
Location
United States
I think you misunderstood Satan. They were saying that they just confused the lynel, not actually messed with its AI.
Ah, I see. Yeah I misunderstood. "Unloaded the AI" made it seem like they glitched it in some way.

its called having fun with a game that is intended by the devs for there to be no clear cut way to overcome any fight or obstacle. shrine skipping, although ive never done it, is not cheating either.

you definition of cheesing also is bizarre because like apart from like draygon in super metroid and tennis matches in zelda i cant think of cases where cheeses are intentionally programmed. like sure im sure theres subjectivity to the definition of that but saying anything the devs didnt 'intend' is automatically cheating actually makes me angry.

There's a fine line between using the game's mechanics to find solutions to tasks that hadn't occurred to the developers, and simply not completing the task yet progressing anyways. Clearly games are never meant to be cheesed, but mechanics that are intended to be used can be used in ways that were clearly not intended to be possible. Finding a way to solve a shrine's puzzle that the devs didn't think of isn't cheating. Not even doing the puzzle and getting the orb is cheating.

An example is Gwyn in Dark Souls. You can simply parry and riposte him which removes all challenge from the fight. That's cheesing because parrying is an intended mechanic, no oversights involved. You can also simply walk behind a rock and he will never be able to hit you. That's cheating because there's zero possibility that the devs intended for his ai to be unable to avoid a rock. The latter doesn't involve any glitches or outside tools, but it's still cheating IMO. It's not a creative solution on the player's part, it's exploiting something that's straight up supposed to not happen.

saying anything the devs didnt 'intend' is automatically cheating actually makes me angry.
 
ok so if you dont know what im talking about with this cheese then you dont have a right to say anything about it. thats you strawmanning me, right? as you acknowledged to shroom, you didnt know what i meant at all. i dont think you should accuse me of strawman without at least acknowledging you did the same. if thats not what you meant about the devs' intentions, then sorry for jumping to that conclusion but thats how it felt.

clearly we have different definitions and thats fine and i get the point your making with that dark souls boss (you're describing like a stunlock, i believe?). but i think the definition for a person can vary also depending on the sorts of games they play. i dont play soulslike games and i know those games have combat that can be more punishable and i can understand why its quicker to say something is cheating in that case. but i dont think it necessarily translates that way for every game, but if it does for you personally then that's fine.
 

Cfrock

Keep it strong
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Location
Liverpool, England
I cheat constantly. Well, not constantly. I'll usually go through a game without any kind of cheats or advantages the first time, but cheats are really, really fun in a lot of games and I often enjoy them more when I have fewer things to worry about.

Halo 1 and 2 have an infinite ammo skull on the MCC, for example, and I find it incredibly fun because I'll end up using weapons I might otherwise avoid, like dual needlers, and get a different experience from the game. Resident Evil has always had a history of giving you infinite ammo, too, and those games can be extremely cathartic to run through with no concern for ammo, blasting zombies to pieces with abandon.

It's rare that I will use cheats when playing a game for the first time, but I have done it. I usually do it when there's a system in the game that makes me not enjoy it vanilla, or to correct something unfair the designers implemented.

For example, Assassin's Creed Odyssey is a great game, but because Ubisoft want you to buy XP Booster packs, it can become a real grind to level up. I don't enjoy grinding, so I played with a cheat that multiplied the XP I got so I levelled up at a more enjoyable pace. Cheating like that made the game more enjoyable for me because it removed a system put in place to slow the game down.

The Witcher 3 would be another example. Maybe not a cheat, exactly, but I played with a mod that removed the weight limit on what I could carry. I despise over-encumbrance mechanics in games, and considering how much heavy stuff you find in The Witcher I probably wouldn't have even finished it if I had to deal with it. So I removed it and enjoyed the game significantly more because of it.

I only ever use cheats or mods in single-player games, or when playing in single-player modes, though. I use them to alter or enhance my own experience, not impact anyone else's, so I never use cheats in multiplayer. It's simply not fair for everyone else and ruins the whole point of playing against other people.
 

Azure Sage

March onward forever...
Staff member
ZD Legend
Comm. Coordinator
I don't cheat in games because like others have said, I feel like it sullies the experience. That goes for subsequent playthroughs too though for me. I'm cool with using glitches and exploits and stuff, for example the escape the forest glitch in OoT, and shield bouncing off enemies in BotW, but as far as messing with the game's code goes, I really don't approve. Like, there are times where I've been tempted to learn how to hack to make my character look better, but any such temptations have always been purely cosmetic. Hacking the game to make yourself stronger or to gain an advantage has never sat right with me, even if it's singleplayer and even in subsequent playthroughs. I'm not gonna tell you what to do, but I'm still gonna look at you funny for it.
 

TheGreatCthulhu

Composer of the Night.
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Location
United States of America
Gender
Very much a dude.
I cheat constantly. Well, not constantly. I'll usually go through a game without any kind of cheats or advantages the first time, but cheats are really, really fun in a lot of games and I often enjoy them more when I have fewer things to worry about.

Halo 1 and 2 have an infinite ammo skull on the MCC, for example, and I find it incredibly fun because I'll end up using weapons I might otherwise avoid, like dual needlers, and get a different experience from the game. Resident Evil has always had a history of giving you infinite ammo, too, and those games can be extremely cathartic to run through with no concern for ammo, blasting zombies to pieces with abandon.

It's rare that I will use cheats when playing a game for the first time, but I have done it. I usually do it when there's a system in the game that makes me not enjoy it vanilla, or to correct something unfair the designers implemented.

For example, Assassin's Creed Odyssey is a great game, but because Ubisoft want you to buy XP Booster packs, it can become a real grind to level up. I don't enjoy grinding, so I played with a cheat that multiplied the XP I got so I levelled up at a more enjoyable pace. Cheating like that made the game more enjoyable for me because it removed a system put in place to slow the game down.

The Witcher 3 would be another example. Maybe not a cheat, exactly, but I played with a mod that removed the weight limit on what I could carry. I despise over-encumbrance mechanics in games, and considering how much heavy stuff you find in The Witcher I probably wouldn't have even finished it if I had to deal with it. So I removed it and enjoyed the game significantly more because of it.

I only ever use cheats or mods in single-player games, or when playing in single-player modes, though. I use them to alter or enhance my own experience, not impact anyone else's, so I never use cheats in multiplayer. It's simply not fair for everyone else and ruins the whole point of playing against other people.
Mods I don't define as cheating, unless you're installing mods to give yourself god tier weapons and armor.

But most mods that do this are clearly labeled as cheats.

Most mods, I would say 90% of them are cosmetic, or are adding new content, or fixing bugs and glitches.

But mods are a whole other subject entirely.
 

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