Spoiler Are the Dark Tribe, the Ancient Tribe from MM, and the Twili All One Organization?

[Vattible]

Wouldn't the Twili be, or part of, the dark tribe? Other than they are dark and mysterious, after you save Lanayru it says A dark tribe used evil magic to claim the sacred realm, or something like that, and after you deafeat Morpheel, and Zant's at Lanayru's spring, he says to Midna "How dare you?! Are you implying that my power is...our old magic?" So would the Twili, the dark tribe, and maybe the ancient tribe from Majora's Mask, are one whole organization?


Just a theory I caught while I was replaying Twilight Princess.

 

[Djinn]

It has been brought up on many occasions in the past. Both the creators of Majoras Mask are known and the dark tribe while the ancestors of the Twili race are called the dark interlopers. Now both names could be used based on evil connotations as viewed from the other people of Hyrule. Obviously they were both causing trouble and were punished for it. But the clearest evidence comes from the eyes on Majoras Mask and the eye on the Fused Shadow.



They have the same eye.

There is actually more evidence that the Twili from TP are the Dark Tribe mentioned in Four Swords Adventures. In FSA they were described as being sealed in a mirror in the forest by one of the maidens in game.

Long ago, a dark tribe invaded Hyrule. They were defeated and imprisoned within the mirror. The tribe's mirror prison was then secreted away and hidden in the forest temple to sever its connection to this world."

Legends speak of a mirror in which a Dark Tribe was sealed away long ago. I understand it's supposed to be hidden now somewhere in the Forest of Light.

Now here is the clear connection. The Twili were called the dark interlopers and were sealed in the Twili Realm through the mirror of twilight. The Dark tribe in FSA were said to be sealed in a mirror and severed from this world. The Eye on the fused shadow has too similar an eye to Majoras Mask to be simply a coincidence. Even the Happy Mask salesman says something that could be related when describing Majoras Mask.

The mask that was stolen from me... It is called Majora's Mask. It is an accursed item from legend that is said to have been used by an ancient tribe in its hexing rituals. It is said that an evil and wicked power is bestowed upon the one who wears that mask. According to legend... the troubles caused by Majora's Mask were so great... the ancient ones, fearing such catastrophe, sealed the mask in shadow forever, preventing its misuse. But now, that tribe from the legend has vanished, so no one really knows the true nature of the mask's power... ...But I feel it. I went to great lengths to get that legendary mask. When I finally had it... I could sense the doom of a dark omen brewing. It was that unwelcome feeling that makes your hairhttp://www.zeldawiki.org/Majora's_Mask_(Object)# stand on end.

Even though he was describing the mask itself was sealed in shadow it does bring up a very interesting similarity. When the phrase "Sealed in shadow" is mentioned. Much like the descriptions of the Dark Tribe and the Dark Interlopers. When including quoted from FSA, MM, and TP there are a few coincidences that could be evidence that the Dark Tribe, Dark Interlopers, and the Ancient Tribe are possibly the same people.

 

[Locke]

I'll agree that the interlopers and dark tribe are strikingly similar. The discussion at ZI about beta intent brought up the idea that since TP was originally a sequel to WW, it may have been meant to connect to FSA. Did Aonuma direct/produce FSA? He said he wrote the story for TP and then the storywriters added some significant changes. Perhaps he intended it to be a sort of FSA prequel and they added Ganondorf, which would force the game to move to before he was killed (between OoT and WW) and eventually to the CT once they realized that wouldn't work.
However, unless SS proves otherwise, I'm not inclined to believe that MM's tribe is connected to these.

But the clearest evidence comes from the eyes on Majoras Mask and the eye on the Fused Shadow. They have the same eye.

With one noticeably missing (I noticed that this is a common theme in TP. Many of the enemies also have only one eye.) This owl has the same spikes and heart shape. Should it also be connected to the mask?

 

[Djinn]

With one noticeably missing (I noticed that this is a common theme in TP. Many of the enemies also have only one eye.) This owl has the same spikes and heart shape. Should it also be connected to the mask?

The number of eyes are not quite as important as the design style. Normally if you look hard enough you can find similar looking items with a little help from imagination and begin to draw some conclusions. However the left eye on the fused shadow is the exact same eye found on Majoras Mask. The distinction is clear enough for it to not just be a coincidence but an intended connection. Certain other similarities like the Sheikah eye compared to Aganihm's eye are only close but not exact, but the eyes on the two masks are the same.

Whether there is one or two is not as important as the fact that they are the same. The Fused shadow is obviously not the same item as Majoras Maks but something with a similar origin. So it would have similar designs on it but a different overall shape. It is clearly not a mask one is meant to see through so two eyes are not even necessary. So from a design standpoint the fact that the owl has a heart shaped face is not important at all. Owls have heart shaped faces, that is nature.

 

[DuckNoises]

The number of eyes are not quite as important as the design style. Normally if you look hard enough you can find similar looking items with a little help from imagination and begin to draw some conclusions. However the left eye on the fused shadow is the exact same eye found on Majoras Mask. The distinction is clear enough for it to not just be a coincidence but an intended connection. Certain other similarities like the Sheikah eye compared to Aganihm's eye are only close but not exact, but the eyes on the two masks are the same.

Whether there is one or two is not as important as the fact that they are the same. The Fused shadow is obviously not the same item as Majoras Maks but something with a similar origin. So it would have similar designs on it but a different overall shape. It is clearly not a mask one is meant to see through so two eyes are not even necessary. So from a design standpoint the fact that the owl has a heart shaped face is not important at all. Owls have heart shaped faces, that is nature.

Is it really that they are the same, or are they merely similar? Could I not play Devil's Advocate and say that you have made the exact same claim, that one thing is a coincidence and the other is a direct indication of the Dark Interlopers theory? The point at which something becomes distinct is really a subjective interpretation of aesthetics, and I have yet to see an objective statement in the in-game text that truly confirms the Dark Interlopers theory. While they are strikingly similar, I don't see enough connections from Majora's Mask forward to Twilight Princess to imply a concrete connection. Even most older games in the timeline have connections both forward and backward to other titles; does Majora's Mask have any such connections forward to Twilight Princess? They both reference a dark, isolated tribe -- but wouldn't that require for Termina to be the Twilight Realm, if the ancient Twili and the creators of Majora's Mask were the same? Again, what exactly constitutes distinction? Can I not say that they are indistinct for the very same reason?

Also, you seem to be new to the forums; that's a pretty good start. Welcome.

 

[Djinn]

Is it really that they are the same, or are they merely similar? Could I not play Devil's Advocate and say that you have made the exact same claim, that one thing is a coincidence and the other is a direct indication of the Dark Interlopers theory? The point at which something becomes distinct is really a subjective interpretation of aesthetics,[.quote]

I would indeed. The is similar and then there is using the same eye twice. Now Nintendo could have just used another eye, or just made an eye with a close structure. But instead they reused the same eye from Majoras Mask.



Now I would not call this irrefutable proof, or else we would not be discussing this in a theory forum and instead would be discussing the real nature of the singular tribe that crafted both the Mask and the fused shadow. Nintendo has hidden some red herrings in the past. The Tower of the Gods in Wind Waker has a large carving of the face on the moon from Majoras Mask as well.



How it got there and why is another topic all together and not my point. The fact is Nintendo does reuse images from previous games and plants easter eggs. Now was it done on purpose to show a closed continuity and connecting histories and tribes of Hyrule? Or was it only to have the more astute fans say "Hey look that's Termina's moon!" In some instances I might believe it is the latter.

and I have yet to see an objective statement in the in-game text that truly confirms the Dark Interlopers theory. While they are strikingly similar, I don't see enough connections from Majora's Mask forward to Twilight Princess to imply a concrete connection. Even most older games in the timeline have connections both forward and backward to other titles; does Majora's Mask have any such connections forward to Twilight Princess? They both reference a dark, isolated tribe -- but wouldn't that require for Termina to be the Twilight Realm, if the ancient Twili and the creators of Majora's Mask were the same? Again, what exactly constitutes distinction? Can I not say that they are indistinct for the very same reason?

Of course not, there is no objective statement. What I did was include the statements of another Dark Tribe mentioned in FSA who was also sealed in a mirror. So there is actually a little clearer evidence to connect the Dark Tribe of FSA to the Dark Interlopers of TP. The only connections to MM from FSA was the use of the term Dark tribe. Which I said in my earlier post could just be a term that modern Hylians use because of the tribe's evil connotations. Only after we see the little clues left here and there could we begin to form a connection between Majoras Mask, to Four Swords Adventures, then on to Twilight Princess.

 

[Vattible]

@DuckNoises, thank you I am new... @everone else, I kind of doubted that the dark tribe from MM was connected, but it's worth a shot.( I can't remember how I got "the ancient tribe")

 

[Nayrinarore]

you know, the point with the eye on the mask and the fused shadow is a good one.... perhaps they through it in to connect the two organizations, perhaps it was unintentional, perhaps they put it in to spark conversations like this. either way Vattible, great observation and great argument.

 

[DuckNoises]

I would indeed. The is similar and then there is using the same eye twice. Now Nintendo could have just used another eye, or just made an eye with a close structure. But instead they reused the same eye from Majoras Mask.

Now, hold on a second. These are not the same images, and there appears to be a clear continuity error. I don't remember the Fused Shadows in TP having such an eye; I do however, remember this image, that you posted earlier. It has only one eye, and there is a clear difference.

These are actual screenshots of the Fused Shadows in their complete form, and I see no such eye as the one I have quoted above. The url name for the location of that image (which I assume you find on google) sounds rather questionable, and I'm fairly certain that that image is not concept art nor an actual screenshot of the game. There is however, a silhouette of the Majora's Mask eye on one side of the Fused Shadow, but I don't think that means they are the same thing.

Take the Gerudo crest, for example; it is found all throughout Ocarina of Time, but most prominently in Gerudo Valley, and more notably, on Ganondorf's cape. However, it is also on blocks found throughout the game and on many other objects, with no confirmed connection to the Gerudo. The Gerudo crest can also be found on Onox's Armour from OoS and Veran's dress in OoA, yet neither character is particularly linked to the Gerudo or OoT. Similarly, Zant has the Gerudo emblem on his cape, but he is not affiliated with the Gerudo beyond having been in contact with Ganondorf. Just because an emblem that is prominent throughout much of the Zelda universe appears in a game, its implications do not have to be the basis for theory; if the theory has legs, then there is almost certainly stronger evidence to be found in the game's text (or manual, provided it is an earlier game).

Now I would not call this irrefutable proof, or else we would not be discussing this in a theory forum and instead would be discussing the real nature of the singular tribe that crafted both the Mask and the fused shadow. Nintendo has hidden some red herrings in the past. The Tower of the Gods in Wind Waker has a large carving of the face on the moon from Majoras Mask as well.

View attachment 8623View attachment 8624View attachment 8625

How it got there and why is another topic all together and not my point. The fact is Nintendo does reuse images from previous games and plants easter eggs. Now was it done on purpose to show a closed continuity and connecting histories and tribes of Hyrule? Or was it only to have the more astute fans say "Hey look that's Termina's moon!" In some instances I might believe it is the latter.

I'll not refuse the notion that they put in Easter eggs, as they certainly do; but by being Easter eggs, they are just that, and are then not a solid base for a theory. Again, I disagree that the face in the Tower of the Gods in WW is similar to Termina's Moon; they are merely both grimacing faces with clenched teeth. I would argue that that's not even an Easter egg, because I don't really see much of a similarity.

 

[Djinn]

Now, hold on a second. These are not the same images, and there appears to be a clear continuity error. I don't remember the Fused Shadows in TP having such an eye; I do however, remember this image, that you posted earlier. It has only one eye, and there is a clear difference.

Yes that is a shopped image meant to show the similarity of the two eyes next to each other. It was never meant to be the true look of the Fused shadow. And I did not mean that the Fused shadow was Majoras Mask. Only that they had too similar a design style that they could point to a common origin.

 

[Locke]

Now, hold on a second. These are not the same images, and there appears to be a clear continuity error. I don't remember the Fused Shadows in TP having such an eye; I do however, remember this image, that you posted earlier. It has only one eye, and there is a clear difference.

lol
That image was edited to show the similarity between Majora's eye (left) and the fused shadow's eye (right).

edit: ninja'd

okay I'll add something different to the discussion then...
Isn't the Tower of the Gods (where you found that 'moon' reference) also where the Legend of the Fairy is found? I'm not sure if two MM references in one place is a coincidence. (though I'm bending more towards DN's opinion on the face.)