Hyrule Warriors This game is an RPG?

[Akuhime-sama]

All video games have numbers at their core.

Not all games level up and change values of the player though- I'm talking about a SPECIFIC kind of number-basing.

How many hits it takes to kill a boss is not the same thing as dealing number-based damage.

For instance, you can smack Ganondorf all you want, but the battle won't end until you actually use the Master Sword. [Twilight Princess reference]
However, in the kind of games I'm talking about, it doesn't matter WHAT you finish them off with, you just have to lower their HP to 0.
This may not be the best example, but It has to do with the point I'm trying to make.

Another example would be- pretty much any boss in the Zelda series. You have to hit them like- 3 times or so- in their weak point, but any other attack will not kill them. It's not the same thing as what I'm talking about at all.

 

[Akuhime-sama]

But I was talking about video games and not D&D? :?

No, but it was mentioned before.

 

[the8thark]

Not all games level up and change values of the player though- I'm talking about a SPECIFIC kind of number-basing.

How many hits it takes to kill a boss is not the same thing as dealing number-based damage.

For instance, you can smack Ganondorf all you want, but the battle won't end until you actually use the Master Sword. [Twilight Princess reference]
However, in the kind of games I'm talking about, it doesn't matter WHAT you finish them off with, you just have to lower their HP to 0.
This may not be the best example, but It has to do with the point I'm trying to make.

Another example would be- pretty much any boss in the Zelda series. You have to hit them like- 3 times or so- in their weak point, but any other attack will not kill them. It's not the same thing as what I'm talking about at all.

How many hits it takes to kill a boss? That's a number. Doesn't matter is each hit is worth 30 damage or an unknown amount of damage (like in most Zelda games), it's the same end result.
And games can be RPGs with weak point hits required to kill bosses. Terranigma is one of many games like this and it is most certainly an RPG.

Anyway how you kill bosses, or the fact that bosses even exist at all does not define what an RPG is. One could argue Harvest Moon is an RPG. It has all of the role playing elements required, you do gain more loot to use on the farm, the main character does evolve, there are tons of NPCs to chat about, the game has a nice story etc etc.

 

[Jamie]

I think borderline would be correct.
For me the the difference between RNG and non RNG is Link. He does not really have a personality. His story is told through all the other NPCs. Just like the Diablo series of games. Silent protagonists can evolve if their other non verbal communication shows them emotionally evolving. I just think Link does not do this.

I think the issue here is, is this a defining characteristic of an RPG. Or can a game be an RPG without it? Depending in your point of view it can be yes or no. So really Hyrule Warriors is an RPG but it's also not an RPG depending on your point of view on a few specific points.

What? There are plenty of indy RPGs without much of a storyline at all. If you took say, FF7, and removed all aspects of complex dialogue or story development, would it suddenly not be an RPG? What would it be?

 

[Jamie]

So by your definition Zelda 2 is an RPG right? As it has XP and levelling up.

yes lol it is an action rpg by definition

 

[the8thark]

What? There are plenty of indy RPGs without much of a storyline at all. If you took say, FF7, and removed all aspects of complex dialogue or story development, would it suddenly not be an RPG? What would it be?

Then you would have an RPG with a terrible non inspiring story line. If you removed all story from it and all character development totally, then it'd be a turned based game. That's it. You have to play a role of something or in something (ie some shred of a story even a terrible one suffices) for it to be an RPG.

FPS = First person shooter. Without the first person perspective or the shooting it's not an FPS.
RTS = Real time Strategy Without the real time action or the strategy it's not an RTS.
TBS Turn based stratwgy. Without the real time action or the strategy it's not an RTS.

And on the same principle:
RPG = Role Playing Game. With out the role playing, it's not an RPG.

yes lol it is an action rpg by definition

Very borderline. Nothing to do with the numbers of cause. You could call it an action/Adventure game or an RPG and either side would be correct based on how you argue it. This is the same for most LoZ games though.

 

[the8thark]

Delete this post please.

 

[Akuhime-sama]

How many hits it takes to kill a boss? That's a number. Doesn't matter is each hit is worth 30 damage or an unknown amount of damage (like in most Zelda games), it's the same end result.

No- I think we're talking about two different things here.
What I'm talking about, is a certain set of criteria (whatever term there may be for it), and what happens in Zelda games, doesn't fit the criteria I'm talking about. Now, I'm going to refrain from saying "RPG" because we already agreed to disagree on what the term refers to, and we already agreed there needs to be two different terms, separating my concept from your concept. So, Maybe I'll use my own term.
Maybe- NBLG? (Number-based-leveling-game)? I really can't think of anything better at the moment.

But anyway- the concept I'm referring to, (NBLG), Is quite different than what you're talking about. I mean, I'm not sure how else to put it into words, but it's not something that happens in Zelda games.
Simply because, according to what my concept means, there has to be a level system. This is why Pokemon, although I never thought of it as an NBLG as a kid, is in fact an NBLG. Though the player doesn't level up, the party however, does. And again, it revolves around Numbers. Hell- even the catch-rate for each Pokeball throw uses a complex algorithm that looks like something from an advanced math class.

And three times to kill a boss isn't necessarily a number-based-stat system- I mean, it could just be scripted to die after you do certain things. Like- cracking the armor off of (oh what was that called?) Molgera? no- anyway, the boss in WW that was yanking on Valoo's tail. All you have to do is initialize the scripted response for the armor cracking off a few times, then attack it in the same way you did to break the armor off. Same with Argorok from TP. Yes, technically an "amount" of times is a number- but it's not an HP-count. Hell, it probably isn't a health count at all. It's just scripted actions- Like cut-scenes. But again- I don't actually know what goes on behind the "curtain" of data, so perhaps certain bosses in Zelda (and even regular enemies) have some sort of invisible HP-count. If so, then there might be some characteristics of NBLGs hiding within; but even if so, It can't be a full-fledged one without character leveling. And on top of that, there's nothing to verify if it even has that in its coding, unless you have access to the knowledge of the game data used in making it. So, the common person wouldn't even know if it in fact has those qualities, since they'd remain hidden.

Anyway- my point in all of this is that we're thinking about two different concepts. And, two different concepts of "numbers" and "number-based" systems.