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Spoiler Why The "Link Created Termina With His Mind" Is NOT True!

Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Thank you for reading this forum. My sister and I personally HATE the "Link created Termina with his mind" theory. We decided to come up with some reasons why Link DIDN'T create it with his mind.
1. Why would Link make a realm where the Moon would fall and kill everyone in it?
2. Why would Link break up a lovely couple, in the most of tragic ways? (Anju and Kafei)
3. Why would Link make a poor, innocent, Skull Kid into a monster?
4. Why would Link create the Demon Mask, Majora's Mask?
5. Why would Link turn himself into a Deku Scrub when he was getting tortured when he was?
6. Why would Link turn himself into a Goron?
7. Why would Link turn himself into a Zora?
8. Why would Link separate two loving siblings? (Tatl and Tael)
9. Why would Link make his own horse be stolen? (Epona)
10. Why would Link make lingering spirits, (Darmani) and a cursed father? (Pamela's Gibdo father)
We have many more, but we thought 10 would convince you that's it's not true.
<3 Thanks for Reading <3
 
Joined
Aug 4, 2012
I think the idea was that he created it subconsciously with his mind, which would mean he had little control over what was in it and what happened in it.
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
Joined
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Location
Akkala
Gender
Hylian Champion
If Link created the Termina subconsciously, like TCoZ is getting at, then Link wouldn't have complete and utter control over what transpires in that world. Also, one could suggest that due to the horrors he faced in Ocarina of Time, his mind may be ever so slightly warped. Warped enough to create Termina. Now, there is no solid evidence for this, but hey, that's typically how dreams work!
 

Satsy

~~SaturnStorm
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Somewhere small
Those aren't really 'reasons', as much as they are, well, questions. Some of which don't even relate to Termina, and some of which could be covered under the one question.

For instance, 8 and 9 aren't Termina-related, they happened before he entered Termina. The Skull kid, Tatl and Tael were all on the outside, thus physical, so would have entered the realm as physical entities, too. What happened to the fairies and Epona aren't things Link had any control over.

As for 5, 6 and 7, if one could be answered, the other 3 could as well. For instance I established in the previous paragraph that regardless of what you think of Termina, the Skull Kid is still 'real'. And he's the one who turned Link into a Deku Scrub. The Mask Seller, who (unlike other dreams in the series) is aware of the outside World of Hyrule, stands a strong chance of being real as well. If not real, he'd be like the Owl in Link's Awakening; an agent for one of the Dreamers to lead the other. Either way he gives you all that is necessary to deal with the masks, and the rest come from the constructs of the World.

Though I don't buy into the theory, I can see how it would work. If you consider the entire game to be the dream (beginning with his journey to find his friend), then it is harder to make sense of it. But that's not the theory anyway; the theory starts from chasing Skull Kid and falling to the surreal area before entering the Clock Tower. It's that point after the fall it could be considered a dream, not before. So Skull Kid, Tatl and Tael would still be real.
 

Cfrock

Keep it strong
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Location
Liverpool, England
Although your reasons are just questions and not definitive evidence, you are right that Termina being in Link's head is not true. There are numerous reasons to say this.

First and foremost, Hyrule Historia, the Majora's Mask manual and various developer interviews tell us very clearly that Termina is a parallel universe. They never even hint that it is a dream, nightmare or some other kind of sub-conscious realm. Neither do they even suggest that Termina is a forgein land, physically connected to Hyrule, but that's an entirely different but equally incorrect theory some people have.

Despite actually being told outright what Termina is, some people still argue that it was all in Link's head. Some people say that the trials Link faced in Ocarina of Time scarred him mentally and left him with a mind that was either "warped" (as VanitasXII put it) or in need of repair. If that was the case then, well, surely every adventure would scar Link mentally. If that was the case then every single Link who ever went on an adventure would be reduced to a loony by the events they lived through but we know that's not the case.

After The Wind Waker, we know that particular Link went on to be perfectly sane and experience Phantom Hourglass. After Legend of Zelda, we know that Link was sane and went on to experience Adventure of Link. A Link To The Past's Link didn't seem to have mental issues in Link's Awakening and there was never any reason to think Link had some kind of post-traumatic stress after Skyward Sword, Minish Cap, Twilight Princess or Spirit Tracks. Why then would the Hero of Time succumb to some kind of psychosis?

The claim he was mentally disturbed holds less weight when you consider what we know of Link's actions before Majora's Mask. In this particular timeline, Link has experienced all of Ocarina of Time, fought and defeated Ganon and been returned to childhood by Princess Zelda. At the end of Ocarina of Time we see Link, now a child again, approach a young Zelda. Cue curtain and the standing ovation. Hyrule Historia gives us more details on what Link was doing there.

Link went to go see Zelda to let her know that the dark premonitions she had been having were true and to warn her that something had to be done immediately. Link spent a few days at the castle, after which Zelda gave him the Ocarina of Time. Hyrule Historia tells us Link borrowed Epona from Lon Lon Ranch after a couple of months and then rode off to go find Navi.

Considering what Link has seen and experienced, these actions are incredibly sane, deliberate and sensible. He obviously understands the concept of time travel enough to seek out Zelda on his own initiative since no one old him he had to warn her of Ganondorf. Remember, Zelda sent him back in time as a reward, she was trying to give him his childhood back. It was Link who realised Ganondorf was still a threat and he took action to stop him. Getting Epona showed planning and preparation for his journey to find Navi. He didn't know where she was and instead of just running off blindly he took plenty of time to make sure he was ready for what could have been an incredibly long journey. If he was haunted by the horrors he had witnessed to the extent that he ended up imaging an entire world with arguably worse horrors it's very doubtful he was in any state to make such rational, well-thought out decisions. His entire mental focus would have been himself, instead of Hyrule as a whole and then Navi.

People who support the whole "in Link's mind" theory generally use the reappearance of familiar faces as evidence but that very logic makes characters like the beavers, Kafei, Kamaro, Mayour Dotour and his wife, the Indigo-Gos, Pamela and her father as well as Igos du Ikana and the Deku Royal Family make little sense. Where did Link imagine them from if most everyone else is just him remembering faces?
Either he imagined the entire world from scratch or the whole thing was based off of memories already there in his mind; a mixture of the two seems very unlikely.

Sorry for rambling on but I just find the idea that Termina was all in Link's head (and the idea that it was a forgeign land) something I have to speak against.
 

The Jade Fist

Kung Fu Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Have you considered it was skullkid who created it instead of Link?\

edit:

It can still be a real parallel world, but also created in part from skullkids mind. Remember the giants called him their friend from like the beginning of time.
 

The Jade Fist

Kung Fu Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
How can it possibly be two completely different things at once?

Why would it have to be 2 different things? Not calling it a dream. But rather this his consciousness, helped create that world. He was there since the beginning of it.
 

Cfrock

Keep it strong
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Location
Liverpool, England
Why would it have to be 2 different things?

A parallel universe and someone's fantasy are different things. One is something which exists as a real place, the other isn't. If Termina was both, it would both exist and not exist at the same time.
To say Skull Kid's consciousness helped create it means he imagined it, meaning it's a fantasy, meaning it doesn't exist. Link can't go somewhere which doesn't exist, nor can he enter the Skull Kid's mind so if Termina was one of Skull Kid's imaginings, Majora's Mask wouldn't have been possible.

There's also the story of the Four Giants Anju's Grandmother tells us.

"This tale's from long ago when all the peole weren't seperated into four worlds like they are now. In those times all the people lived together, and the four giants lived among them.
On the day of the festival that celebrates the harvest, the giants spoke to the people...
'We have chosen to guard the people while we sleep...'
'100 steps north.'
'100 steps south.'
'100 steps east.'
'100 steps west.'
'If you have need, call us in a loud voice by declaring something such as, "The mountain blizzard has trapped us."'
'Or "The ocean is about to swallow us." Your cries shall carry to us...'
Now then... There was one who was shocked and saddened by all this.
A little imp.
The imp was a friend of the giants since before they had created the four worlds."

So we know from this that the giants themselves created Termina as we know it and that Skull Kid was there before they established four distinct worlds. So was everyone else. It never says Skull Kid was there from the beginning of time, just since before the giants left and Termina came to be in the state we see it. There were many, many other people there at the same time as Skull Kid because as the story tells us, the people all lived together and the giants lived among them.

It seems just as unlikely that Termina was in any way created from Skull Kid's mind as Link's.
 

The Jade Fist

Kung Fu Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Calling it a fantasy, is the same thing as calling it a dream.

It can still be another world, but in part created by the mind of some one from out side of it.
Alot of people want to think of majora's mask as such a place, but if you were to think of it that way, it'd make more sense being from the skull kid rather then Link.

I don't see why it can't be both a real place and formed in part or in whole from the mind of some one. In a place where the rules of time and space apparently have no rules.

Termania follows the alice in wonderland model. Now was wonderland a real place? Or was it a dream. Or was it a real place created from a dream?

I think you're trying to make a distinction that doesn't need to be made.
 

Cfrock

Keep it strong
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Location
Liverpool, England
I'm making a distinction between somewhere Link can go and somewhere he can't. If Termina was a fantasy then Link could not go there. Saying it is both parallel universe and dream is just strange. Since Nintendo have gone to so much trouble to single it out as a parallel universe and never even hinted that it was a dream, the idea that it is somehow both holds no weight.

We know that Skull Kid was present in Termina alongside the giants and the Terminians long ago. The giants are the ones who created the four separate worlds of Termina and are worshipped as the gods of Termina which means they have more power in Termina than anyone else. If Skull Kid was even partly responsible for the creation, he would have been there before the people (which he wasn't) and he would have had more power there than the giants (which he didn't).

There's just no compelling evidence whatsoever to support the claim that Termina was in any way a fabrication of one of the character's minds.
 

The Jade Fist

Kung Fu Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
I'm not saying skull kid created it, as we cant' know for sure one way or the other.

You're thinking just cause something can be considered a fantasy, that it cant' be traveled to, is also inconsistent with alot of fiction. Majora's Mask is clearly a parallel to Alice in Wonderland, like i said above, alice went there, and all. Phantom Hourglass, the entire game (although that was more of a spirit world journey).

It doesn't have to be fantasy to have been created from their mind. In alot of fiction, it holds true that conscious thought has power over reality to some extent. In a place such as the lost woods where time and space bend in on itself and apparently follows its own set of rules, is it so abstract to think that a pocket dimension could be created? Even if not intentionally but sub-consciously?

Even the goddess willed the normal world into existence. Why can't in a place such as the lost woods another pocket world been willed into existence, consciously or sub-consciously.

Its not as strange as you make out to be. In comparison to other events in the series and other works of fiction.
 

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