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Why a New 'Darker' LoZ Would Do Well

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Dec 16, 2011
There are lots of other people who, like me, wish for a NEW 'Dark' Legend of Zelda game. Majora's Mask is, arguably, considered to be the darkest Legend of Zelda. Many might disagree but I'm going to go ahead and say that Majora's Mask didn't do as well as OoT, why? Because it wasn't in line with that generation, the generation of OoT wasn't in the dark period of today.
So, with all the recent games that are out, like: Skyrim, Assasins Creed and all of those samey, generic RPG games. They seem to do insanely well, why? Well, we don't really know. But I made an obvious link to say that it's because they are Mature games.
I'm not going to jump right in there and say that for a game to do 'insanely' well in this generation, is to be Mature. And I'm definetely not saying that Legend of Zelda is immature.
I'm simply saying, in this generation, why not (as a tester), make a 'Dark' LoZ game. If the producers of Zelda go ahead and do this, then it will be interesting to see whether this theory is correct. It would also stop the well known flaw of LoZ (sarcasm) being that the graphics and story line is too immature... Man, I dislike some reviewers.
So, do you guys agree?
 
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Well, I sort of agree, in the way that I too would like to see another dark Zelda game.
I liked MM and I loved TP, both dark games.
But what do you see as dark? Do you see it as main characters dying? More blood? More mature themes?

I think that LoZ should still contain the classic 'fairytale' formula (saving the princess e.g), but that it could still have a more darker atmosphere (like TP)
 

Deeds

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I think that LoZ should still contain the classic 'fairytale' formula (saving the princess e.g), but that it could still have a more darker atmosphere (like TP)
I agree but to be honest, I dislike the classic 'saving he princess' quest, it just gets old. Also, I wouldn't really like blood and gore just a phsychological darkness, or like you said, a dark atmosphere.
 
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I think that Zelda WiiU should be an industrial zelda. I want it to look exactly like The Valley of The Flood!
Valleyoftheflood.jpg

I loved the darkness in Majoras Mask making it a very creepy and mysterious game, but the new one needs to be industrial, deserty, dark.
 

Deeds

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the new one needs to be industrial, deserty
Industrial and deserty, that's asking for a lot ;)
But yes, they should definetely mix things up in the WiiU Zelda. Dark plot and 1080p graphics would be insane. Just hope they keep that adventureous/mysterious feel.
 

D-Lo G

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I love Twilight Princess because it's so different. It's darker. Skyward Sword is a little too...bright..for me. So another dark game would be great.
 

Dio

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TP is the best selling Zelda game so far and recently outsold OOT. That was one of the darker titles and it did appeal to the more mainstream crowd. OOT did well back in the day because it appealed to everyone.
 

Shadsie

Sage of Tales
I agree but to be honest, I dislike the classic 'saving he princess' quest, it just gets old. Also, I wouldn't really like blood and gore just a phsychological darkness, or like you said, a dark atmosphere.

If you don't like the saving the princess plot, why are you playing Zelda? (Okay, so MM had a different kind of plot - it would be nice to see Link save the world from an impending, immediate apocalypse again).

Someone mentioned "deserty" and I like that. So far, my favorite area in Skyward Sword is the Lanayru Desert (because I am fond of deserts. I grew up in one). I also have a thing for "desert punk" as a genre... but, again, if they can play with atmosphere without darking it up into some generic thing that *isn't Zelda.*

Dark can be done with atmopshere rather than a lot of pointless gore. I find Shadow of the Colossus and Ico good for that. Zelda has already done that well and in some ways, with juxtaposition (one of the reasons Majora's Mask creeps me out more than Twilight Princess does is because of the "colorful" and childlike parts of it set against a storyline that has the Hero impersonating the dead and the impending lunar apocalypse).

What is Zelda? Why do we play it even though it has the same story elements again and again? It's puzzle-solving, whimsy, a bit of darkness, an epic Hero's Journey involving magic and mysterious gods. It's exploration. It's fun escapism. You don't want to change that, even just to favor one element over another. Too many proposals to change elements of the Zelda games to "darken" them come across as *changing the games I like to play. Why don't you play another game?* Maybe I'm a little touchy as I've just come off reading an article on this site and seeing commentary by someone who wanted to do a world-upheaval just to put in some kind of thing that they would like that I think is tired, has unfortunate implications and is overdone in way too much sci-fi that's not Zelda. It made me think "why not play another game or read another story, there are games and stories with that."

I'm saying this as a person who writes some world-changing and VERY dark fan fiction. I don't want my fanworks to be canon (at least as long as I'm *not* being paid for my ideas). For me, the fun of "darkening" a world with fanwork is in that - fan junk that's free from the bounds of canon / something other than canon.

Weird that a "play with the dark, but don't overdarken Zelda" sentiment comes from a writer of a fanfiction in which Wolf Link was killed and skinned by his mentor (!) I do write that dark. Don't want to see it in an actual game.

Edit: Ah! I found it! This is an article I wrote about the darker elements of the Zelda games. http://www.zeldadungeon.net/2011/05/broken-worlds-the-melancholy-settings-of-the-legend-of-zelda/ As you can see, I *do* believe there is a fine line between grimdark and meloncholy. I like the games' meloncholy, not sure I'd like utter grimdark.
 
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Joined
Dec 23, 2011
Interesting idea! I was always surprised that people labeled Majora's Mask as the darkest game... I mean, I agree, but when I'm playing it, I don't think it's dark at all! Then when I think back about what enemy I just fought, or what the storyline just was, I realize how dark it was. I think that's the fascinating thing about Majora's Mask... when I'm not playing it, I'm scared to play it, but when I am playing it, I'm always wanting to play just five minutes more.

I think it would be interesting to see how a darker LoZ game does now... there certainly are a lot of darker games nowadays! I think that may be one of the reasons the recent "lighter" Zelda games are liked so much-- since they're probably some of the only light, yet challenging games today, but it would be really neat to see what Nintendo could do with the darker tones with today's audience!
 

Ventus

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A dark Zelda would work. By dark, I mean by catastrophic events, people screaming, things like that. The villain has to be menacing and has to show it. The lighthearted titles, meaning SS, TWW and so on...they have hints at a darker theme but they don't expand upon them. I don't want backstory to tell us the events, I want ingame cutscenes. We got the brunt of the insanity that Majora's Mask had to offer us all in ingame cutscenes. We saw the moon destroy Termina. We witnessed Majora go completely insane. We could literally kill Sakon if we chose to. We could let Romani get kidnapped by THEM.

Basically, I'm just tired of the same story we've been getting for the past Zelda releases. I just really want a new LoZ release to be as dark or even darker than MM – from what I've seen, we get the BEST character development from the darker games. Things feel tense, there's a sense of urgency and believe it or not, the villains of that particular game are outright willing to destroy you; never are they cocky or willing to blow you off as nothing more than a gadfly.

On the topics of villains, I'd love to have the types of villains like these:
  • Caius Ballad (Final Fantasy XIII-2) – *minor spoilers* we get to see him kill Serah and Noel in two cutscenes, it was absolutely amazing [though sad]. He's the best villain Final Fantasy has ever seen. He's ACTUALLY EVIL.
  • Majora (Zelda:Majora's Mask) – Insanity at its finest.
  • Albert Wesker (Resident Evil series) – he didn't think twice about eliminating obstacles in his path to power. Be it his fellow S.T.A.R.S members or even Excella Gione, Wesker was absolutely ruthless. He even abused Jill Valentine, doing things that I won't say because of spoilers.

I do NOT want villains like these in future Zelda releases:
  • Demise (Zelda Skyward Sword) – He's cocky. He's a joke. He's pointless, because he's nothing more than a plot device.
  • Ganondorf (Zelda Twilight Princess) – See Demise.
  • Zant/Ghirahim (TP & SS respectively) – Cool concepts, pawns to the very end.

The Zelda series needs amazing villains that do something ingame rather than through backstory. We need to see devastating events happen to our hero. Things of that sort would delight me. And none of them have to feature blood, gore, nudity or even language. The word "inferno" can replace that of "hell", "damnation" can be replaced by "sealing" and so on. Heck, if I sealed Ganondorf in the sacred realm, I'm technically damning him to the sacred realm as well, ain't I?
 

JuicieJ

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A dark Zelda would work. By dark, I mean by catastrophic events, people screaming, things like that. The villain has to be menacing and has to show it. The lighthearted titles, meaning SS, TWW and so on...they have hints at a darker theme but they don't expand upon them. I don't want backstory to tell us the events, I want ingame cutscenes. We got the brunt of the insanity that Majora's Mask had to offer us all in ingame cutscenes. We saw the moon destroy Termina. We witnessed Majora go completely insane. We could literally kill Sakon if we chose to. We could let Romani get kidnapped by THEM.

Basically, I'm just tired of the same story we've been getting for the past Zelda releases. I just really want a new LoZ release to be as dark or even darker than MM – from what I've seen, we get the BEST character development from the darker games. Things feel tense, there's a sense of urgency and believe it or not, the villains of that particular game are outright willing to destroy you; never are they cocky or willing to blow you off as nothing more than a gadfly.

While I agree that a Zelda game like you're describing could work, there doesn't need to be everything you're saying. Entire scenes that show the killing of thousands of people and destruction of towns and villages isn't for the kind of series like Zelda. Like it or not, Zelda is a family-friendly series, and focusing a game around things like that would make it a stereotypical modern-day game. Little children play this series, too, and having that stuff in them wouldn't be that pleasing. Zelda benefits from having dark aspects in them, but not an all-out onslaught of dark and horrendous events.

On the topics of villains, I'd love to have the types of villains like these:
  • Caius Ballad (Final Fantasy XIII-2) – *minor spoilers* we get to see him kill Serah and Noel in two cutscenes, it was absolutely amazing [though sad]. He's the best villain Final Fantasy has ever seen. He's ACTUALLY EVIL.
  • Majora (Zelda:Majora's Mask) – Insanity at its finest.
  • Albert Wesker (Resident Evil series) – he didn't think twice about eliminating obstacles in his path to power. Be it his fellow S.T.A.R.S members or even Excella Gione, Wesker was absolutely ruthless. He even abused Jill Valentine, doing things that I won't say because of spoilers.

I do NOT want villains like these in future Zelda releases:
  • Demise (Zelda Skyward Sword) – He's cocky. He's a joke. He's pointless, because he's nothing more than a plot device.
  • Ganondorf (Zelda Twilight Princess) – See Demise.
  • Zant/Ghirahim (TP & SS respectively) – Cool concepts, pawns to the very end.

With the exception of Ghirahim, who had legit reasons for not doing this, every Zelda villain has not hesitated to destroy anything in his/her path to obtain power. Ganondorf pretty much destroyed Castle Town in Ocarina of Time and was ready to kill Link to obtain the Triforce. Demise relentlessly murdered countless people in with his ambitions and rightfully treated Link like nothing. I mean, Link is a teenager. Demise had every reason to think Link stood no chance. I wouldn't think a teenager stood a chance if I were an eternal being with limitless powers. That'd be like going up against an ant. You have to look at things like that through the villain's eyes, not ours. We know Link can win. Demise didn't. It's totally fair for him to underestimate Link.

Again, going up against a teenager. However, he was less cocky than Demise was. He knew Link wouldn't be a gimme victory, but he definitely didn't expect to lose. But, honestly, did we? We knew we could beat Ganondorf without question. Sure, we probably weren't as cocky as Ganondorf, but we in no way thought we would lose to him. Again, it's all about perspective, and you're viewing this from the outside looking in rather than viewing it from the eyes of the villain in-game.

Ghirahim was also not a pawn. He was the main villain in Skyward Sword and was the reason for Demise's revival. Without Ghirahim, Demise had no chance of coming back. He would have never returned to the world to threaten it again. Zant, on the other hand, was used as a tool. Ghirahim worked on his own, making him more than useful to his master. Demise owes everything to Ghirahim for returning.

The Zelda series needs amazing villains that do something ingame rather than through backstory. We need to see devastating events happen to our hero. Things of that sort would delight me. And none of them have to feature blood, gore, nudity or even language. The word "inferno" can replace that of "hell", "damnation" can be replaced by "sealing" and so on. Heck, if I sealed Ganondorf in the sacred realm, I'm technically damning him to the sacred realm as well, ain't I?

Skyward Sword was a good example of what you want. Ghirahim had plenty of events that caused Link trouble, and even caused quite an event to happen: the resurrection of the world's greatest threat, Demise. You expect a little too much maturity from Zelda, and that's where your logic is somewhat faulty. Once again, Zelda is family-friendly, and the closest to the things you are suggesting should be small events like that in Majora's Mask. Zelda isn't The Elder Scrolls or Halo, nor should it be. Not anything close to it. (And, FYI, Zelda already has amazing villains. Ganon, Majora, Veran, Onox, Vaati, and Ghirahim.)
 

Ventus

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1) While I agree that a Zelda game like you're describing could work, there doesn't need to be everything you're saying. Entire scenes that show the killing of thousands of people and destruction of towns and villages isn't for the kind of series like Zelda. Like it or not, Zelda is a family-friendly series, and focusing a game around things like that would make it a stereotypical modern-day game. Little children play this series, too, and having that stuff in them wouldn't be that pleasing. Zelda benefits from having dark aspects in them, but not an all-out onslaught of dark and horrendous events.



2) With the exception of Ghirahim, who had legit reasons for not doing this, every Zelda villain has not hesitated to destroy anything in his/her path to obtain power. Ganondorf pretty much destroyed Castle Town in Ocarina of Time and was ready to kill Link to obtain the Triforce. Demise relentlessly murdered countless people in with his ambitions and rightfully treated Link like nothing. I mean, Link is a teenager. Demise had every reason to think Link stood no chance. I wouldn't think a teenager stood a chance if I were an eternal being with limitless powers. That'd be like going up against an ant. You have to look at things like that through the villain's eyes, not ours. We know Link can win. Demise didn't. It's totally fair for him to underestimate Link.Again, going up against a teenager. However, he was less cocky than Demise was. He knew Link wouldn't be a gimme victory, but he definitely didn't expect to lose. But, honestly, did we? We knew we could beat Ganondorf without question. Sure, we probably weren't as cocky as Ganondorf, but we in no way thought we would lose to him. Again, it's all about perspective, and you're viewing this from the outside looking in rather than viewing it from the eyes of the villain in-game.

3)Ghirahim was also not a pawn. He was the main villain in Skyward Sword and was the reason for Demise's revival. Without Ghirahim, Demise had no chance of coming back. He would have never returned to the world to threaten it again. Zant, on the other hand, was used as a tool. Ghirahim worked on his own, making him more than useful to his master. Demise owes everything to Ghirahim for returning.



4) Skyward Sword was a good example of what you want. Ghirahim had plenty of events that caused Link trouble, and even caused quite an event to happen: the resurrection of the world's greatest threat, Demise. You expect a little too much maturity from Zelda, and that's where your logic is somewhat faulty. Once again, Zelda is family-friendly, and the closest to the things you are suggesting should be small events like that in Majora's Mask. Zelda isn't The Elder Scrolls or Halo, nor should it be. Not anything close to it. (And, FYI, Zelda already has amazing villains. Ganon, Majora, Veran, Onox, Vaati, and Ghirahim.)
1) I know, I was going overboard. I just mean that Zelda needs to touch upon darker themes. Twilight Princess, I felt, was totally undeserving of that T rating. Sure, it looked dark, but it didn't feel dark. The violence featured in the game never felt...violent, as the ESRB rating tried to brand it. Maybe it's just the way I am looking at it, I don't know. TP didn't feel dark, however MM definitely did.

2) 'cept Demise isn't eternal, nor does he have limitless power. We mortally wounded him, something impossible were he as strong as people make him out to be. He had to take a knee because of the damage we dealt to him, a god could never be so much as subdued by a human. Even with a blade of evil's bane, it wouldn't be possible in the hands of a human. This is really just me looking at it from an outside perspective, you hit it on the head, but even then...Demise was lacking as a villain. He has all the reason to doubt and scoff at Link's seemingly futile attempts at victory, but why didn't he just go on and rid himself of the gadfly? Achieve your goal that is but steps away, rather than allow even the most unlikely of people to defeat you. That's common sense, as a villain. Do anything and everything you can to achieve your goal, that's what a powerhungry fool villain would and SHOULD do. Demise and Ganondorf? Nope, they all but failed at their goal, which makes them look like sorry excuses for villains in my eyes. Ghirahim, as you noted, had actual reasons (and quite comical ones at that) for not destroying Link. Without Link, Ghirahim likely wouldn't have known about the second Door of TIme, and therefore wouldn't achieve his own goal of resurrecting his master. However, we all know that Ghirahim *could have* beaten Link. We know that he showed the scamp a little bit of mercy. I can see Ghirahim's reasoning, however Demise and Ganondorf were jokes.

3) Ghirahim was a pawn though, he outright told us "I need the girl to revive my master!". That's his purpose – work to revive your master, or in otherwords, serve as the pawn that he rightfully is. The difference between Ghirahim and Zant though, is that while Ghirahim knew and accepted that he was lower in the hierarchy of power than Demise, Zant tried to show himself as the true bigshot when it was Ganondorf all along.

4)Yes, again it's just me going a bit overboard with my wants and 'needs'. Still, the Zelda series is a bit too lighthearted. Sure, we don't need ongoing wars and people being killed outright, however I do feel that the hero shouldn't always be on top. The hero should have to feel pain and suffering. Not temporary pain, as was the case with Zelda's kidnapping in SS, but permanent pain, such as how Termina was destroyed and the people nowhere to be found. What I'm saying is, Link needs to lose. Just one more time; MM showed us what Nintendo could do with dark themes and overall insanity, now take that a step further.
 
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I disagree with that. I think today's generation does like more ark themes, like the dark knight; batman didn't get as popular until dark knight came out in the movie they complicated the characters who really in their origins weren't all that complicated. that is what is appealing to people now a days. I would say the legend of zelda is almost completely the opposite and that appeals to me greatly. now my point is that by going along a more dark path (like the dark knight) I believe the legend of zelda would loose most of its current fans. Plus, isn't it nice to have a game where your sure you can be sure you wont see anything inappropriate. Legend of Zelda is a feel good epic game that should remain the same without selling out to the lame fads of idiot hipsters.
 

Ventus

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I disagree with that. I think today's generation does like more ark themes, like the dark knight; batman didn't get as popular until dark knight came out [...] 1) I believe the legend of zelda would loose most of its current fans. 2) Plus, isn't it nice to have a game where your sure you can be sure you wont see anything inappropriate. Legend of Zelda is a feel good epic game that should remain the same without selling out to the 3) lame fads of idiot hipsters.

Uno - Majora's Mask released and the series didn't lose any of the fans; the game just went unnoticed because it was released at the end of the N64's lifespan. With something new like the Wii U coming out, a darker Zelda would definitely be noticed and appeal to nearly everyone if done correctly. If it flops like Twilight Princess did with a couple of fans, then of course people will be turned off.

Dos - No, not really. I'm a child, yes, but I see reality for what it is. People will cuss up a storm. Blood does in fact exist, and it comes out of cuts and sometimes even burns. There are people who do not wear any clothes – that's the reality of things. The hero winning against all odds, that is mostly in lala land, it's make believe (though it can and definitely HAS happened in real life). Rather than trying to escape reality, people tend to embrace it. No, I'm not saying Zelda or Nintendo has to adopt those Mature themes, but a darker game overall would suit Zelda nicely. Darker doesn't mean naked people or cursing or insane realistic viruses with blood and gore. It just means not all fairy tale like how Skyward Sword or The Wind Waker generally were perceived to be.

Tres - I'm offended, I'm not a hipster and I'm definitely not lame. :/
 

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