I also want to reevaluate Minish somewhat. She was the first to vote for Rag after 2 RVS votes and ultimately the one who swayed SMS to vote that direction (getting SMS off her radar, something she is good at doing as scum). She spearheaded that lynch as a whole and I need to rethink my townread on her a bit.
You keep saying I swayed SMS, but I never once told him or anyone to vote Rag and had no intentions to. My back and forth with SMS was because he was suspicious of me so all of that was about defending my thought process and not swaying. I wasn't super confident in my Rag read but it was what I felt best voting at the time. And it's funny I'm considered spearheading the lynch because I was purposefully trying not to be a town leader or anything because I didn't want to die n1 in a game I really wanted to play in. So my actions weren't extremely townie d1 and you can say this is to cover my ass, but it was actually because I just wanted to survive past n1.
Bundling these together because they touch on the same point. I don't particularly care about SMS's meta in this instance since people change their metas all the time. SMS was one of the first people in the game to give actual reads and was making some nice attempts to keep the game moving, which I think is a really silly thing to scumread someone for meta or not. He was acting in a pro-town manner, hence the town read.
Anyway, knowing now that SMS was town, I have to ask Minish, does my early read of him still ping you in the same way?
Early town lean on SMS. This is way different from Pen Mafia X in which he wasn't super present and made incredibly lazy reads.
This is quite funny considering the post I just quoted. Your read of SMS was literally based on meta. That's the first thing you mention. That's why I thought it was bs because I knew he's acted differently as scum than what you were saying and the fact you seem so against meta but used that to justify your read.
Knowing SMS was town, it does ping me the same way because it originally pinged me because I thought you were possibly scum giving an easy read on someone town.
What bs? You know how I feel about meta, so if I see someone say/do something that gives off town vibes I'm going to townread them for it. That's how this game should always be played and I will never ever change that opinion.
Answered this in the above quote, but for someone so against meta you've brought up meta a couple of times already. I'm not gonna townread someone just for giving reads on people early, because I find that way easier to do as scum and I do it as scum a lot.
Do you still feel this way about Pen going into today?
Yes and no. His vote doesn't look good because he kept it for no reason. His is probably my least favorite vote on Rag. But I also don't know if scum Pen draws that attention to himself as scum if he knows Rag will flip town.
You said again later that I was acting scummy but to this point you have yet to actually explain why.
Part of it is just a vibe. Your tone of posts feels like they're coming from maybe a more informed mind set. Also the meta stuff I mentioned earlier. There was one post I read after eod that I remember starting out agreeing with you and then the more the post went the less I liked it. I'll try to remember to find it later.
The lack of confidence regarding Minish's SMS read sticks out to me a bit. Saying you're not confident with a read covers your butt when that person later flips since you can simply refer back to it and say "look I never actually scumread him". And I genuinely do feel like SMS was acting pretty townie at this point.
Your read of SMS seemed to hinge on my alignment so I'm curious if the inverse is also true?
I mean yeah. But I'm also notoriously always unconfident in my SMS read and bring it up often.
The inverse was not true.
Was your entire read of Rag based on one niche game that less than half the players in this game were involved with?
Also reads list as a whole is OK, I already mentioned how half of them are null reads which is meh.
No, that was my basis for explaining the read. I read people based off of when I played scum with them a bit. So I was using that game, but it explained the scummy actions I was seeing. Which was asking questions (possibly to try to trip someone up to push them), but not going anywhere with them. Asking questions is easy because it makes it look like you're proactive without actually being proactive, so that people will townread you. But those questions never led to anything more.
Also, my reads lists when I'm scum are way more decisive, and has less nulls.
Like I said above, I feel like the entire reasoning for this vote on Rag was based on a game in which she wasn't even technically mafia, and a game that most of us have no clue about. It just seems, idk, convenient? to me that the one game you consistently referenced in your read is one most of us can't really refer to.
Was there any reason for your vote beyond meta? Because Rag is someone who I feel changes her meta fairly often so it's not a great source of a read.
Already mostly answered this above. But it's not really convenient that I referenced the closest game I have to being scum with Rag. The game was a bit complicated but we did think we were scum to begin with.
I disliked that from Rag too, but this is rather flimsy.
How is me calling someone out for things that they do as scum and then that person saying "yeah I do do that as scum" flimsy? Like that should be the most solid proof that my read was at least genuine even if wrong.
If you weren't technically scum in that game, and it was unusual in many respects, then is it really a good game to use as the basis for your scumread?
Yes. It's too complicated to explain, but we still thought we were scum at the beginning and once we realized we weren't exactly we still had to keep hidden because there was a faction that was more like "town" to our "scum".
This is where Minish successfully swayed SMS into voting for Rag (or, at the very least, prompted him to check her ISO). I still think Min's scum read on Rag was a bit flimsy so I'm surprised that SMS was swayed so easily. Either way, the important thing here is that Minish was essentially the main person behind the wheel of Rag's lynch. Mikey planted seeds for it earlier, but Minish got SMS to look in that direction which in turn was the cause for Chevy's vote, which had made Rag's wagon the central occurrence of EoD leading to Kirino's vote. Pen and Rubik kept their RVS votes on Rag in spite of the rapid acceleration of said wagon but neither really played a role in driving it.
I also addressed this earlier, but I think it's a bit much to act like I was really pushing for Rag's lynch. I was going with what I thought best at the time. Despite my read on you and SMS I was more unsure of those. If I were scum I'd probably just push you tbh. All of my posts were defending my read and vote of Rag and not pushing anyone else to vote her. If my reasoning for voting someone sways someone else that's not my fault because I can't just not give my reasons for voting someone.
The main thing I got from Min's ISO is a reminder as to why I dislike relying on meta so much lol. The bases of all her reads, including on 2 people who flipped town, are meta-related, with Rag's being based on a game that should barely even count. She drove the Rag lynch and swayed a townie to join it, so as a whole I don't think that's a great look.
I mean, you're not using meta here to read me and you're wrong. So both things have their places and I do get decent lynches and town reads from meta.