Wind Waker 2

[thePlinko]

The only reason why I’d want to get rid of the touch controls in a PH remake is because it would be a pain to get them to work on a modern console. At that point you might as well redesign the entire game while keeping the core concepts.

I think I’ve said this before, but I’d want a potential remake to double down on the Temple of the Ocean King, not try to “fix” it. It’s already one of the best gimmicks in the entire series, it just needs a little more.

There’s a point in the game, a little after the halfway point, where the game tells you “hey, if you want a challenge, we’ll you get the next map quadrant a little early. It’s not going to be easy though.”

They weren’t kidding either, it’s not easy. You don’t have any of the items that let you take shortcuts, you don’t even have the extra time you’d get from killing the next dungeon boss. My first few times trying it I failed, and my first time actually accomplishing it I ran out of time and was only able to finish it while my health slowly ticked down and I drained my potions. I did it though, and my reward was that I got to skip the next visit.

The Temple of the Ocean King takes the tedium of repeated visits and turns it into motivation to get better and challenge yourself, sorta like Majora’s Mask’s 3 day cycle motivating you to plan your day out better by making you wait longer if you don’t. The biggest thing that I’d want out of a remake is the opportunity to do that even more.

 

[Dizzi]

The only reason why I’d want to get rid of the touch controls in a PH remake is because it would be a pain to get them to work on a modern console. At that point you might as well redesign the entire game while keeping the core concepts.

I think I’ve said this before, but I’d want a potential remake to double down on the Temple of the Ocean King, not try to “fix” it. It’s already one of the best gimmicks in the entire series, it just needs a little more.

There’s a point in the game, a little after the halfway point, where the game tells you “hey, if you want a challenge, we’ll you get the next map quadrant a little early. It’s not going to be easy though.”

They weren’t kidding either, it’s not easy. You don’t have any of the items that let you take shortcuts, you don’t even have the extra time you’d get from killing the next dungeon boss. My first few times trying it I failed, and my first time actually accomplishing it I ran out of time and was only able to finish it while my health slowly ticked down and I drained my potions. I did it though, and my reward was that I got to skip the next visit.

The Temple of the Ocean King takes the tedium of repeated visits and turns it into motivation to get better and challenge yourself, sorta like Majora’s Mask’s 3 day cycle motivating you to plan your day out better by making you wait longer if you don’t. The biggest thing that I’d want out of a remake is the opportunity to do that even more.

Yea you could find lil shortcuts and work arounds...

 

[Mima_sama]

The only reason why I’d want to get rid of the touch controls in a PH remake is because it would be a pain to get them to work on a modern console. At that point you might as well redesign the entire game while keeping the core concepts.

I think I’ve said this before, but I’d want a potential remake to double down on the Temple of the Ocean King, not try to “fix” it. It’s already one of the best gimmicks in the entire series, it just needs a little more.

There’s a point in the game, a little after the halfway point, where the game tells you “hey, if you want a challenge, we’ll you get the next map quadrant a little early. It’s not going to be easy though.”

They weren’t kidding either, it’s not easy. You don’t have any of the items that let you take shortcuts, you don’t even have the extra time you’d get from killing the next dungeon boss. My first few times trying it I failed, and my first time actually accomplishing it I ran out of time and was only able to finish it while my health slowly ticked down and I drained my potions. I did it though, and my reward was that I got to skip the next visit.

The Temple of the Ocean King takes the tedium of repeated visits and turns it into motivation to get better and challenge yourself, sorta like Majora’s Mask’s 3 day cycle motivating you to plan your day out better by making you wait longer if you don’t. The biggest thing that I’d want out of a remake is the opportunity to do that even more.

Opinion time: I disagree with this-- the TotOK felt like padding to me, and I really didn't enjoy repeating any part of it with a timer looming over my head. I just wanted to be done with it, and after I was, I realized that I never wanted to do it again. I've never replayed PH because of this, even though the rest of the game is great.
It's frustrating to lose progress and have to start all over from the beginning again once the timer runs out. That may be my ADHD manifesting itself, though.[/opinion]

Well, to each their own, I guess?
Maybe they could do two modes for a PH remake-- an easy mode where the TotOK is without the timer and has more accessible shortcuts, and a normal mode that keeps everything pretty much the same as the original. And if you play the game on normal, maybe it could unlock a bonus game mode where you go through a harder version of the temple and see either how fast you can beat it or how far you can go.

 

[thePlinko]

Well, to each their own, I guess?
Maybe they could do two modes for a PH remake-- an easy mode where the TotOK is without the timer and has more accessible shortcuts, and a normal mode that keeps everything pretty much the same as the original. And if you play the game on normal, maybe it could unlock a bonus game mode where you go through a harder version of the temple and see either how fast you can beat it or how far you can go.

The problem is that the way I would personally want it to be designed is completely incompatible with this.

If I were to redesign the dungeon, I would turn it into a roguelike-metroidvania hybrid. Make it technically possible to beat on your very first visit, only with a time limit so strict that it requires borderline TAS-level precision. Each visit you can unlock new locations in the overworld to search for new items, abilities, and extra time for the hourglass, with the biggest difference now being that there’s no limit to how many new locations you can unlock during each visit to the temple. You can get further and further into the dungeon on repeated attempts based on a combination of your own knowledge and the things you’ve obtained. Basically it’s the “you can go straight to the final boss if you want to” gimmick from BotW/TotK only this time actually well designed.

Do you see the issue here? Without the time limit the entire game goes from a central challenge surrounded by practically required side quests to a single mediocre dungeon surrounded by optional fluff. Now instead of being a game that requires downright mastery in order to beat it in 1/16 of the casual time like Super Metroid, it’s a game that requires some slight past experience to beat in 1/16 of the normal time, like BotW.


The time limit is so ingrained with what makes the TotOK such a brilliant mechanic (and PH as a whole brilliant as well) that taking it out even optionally would shift the game at its absolute core to point where it’s unrecognizable. It would be like if a remake of Majora’s Mask took out the 3 day system entirely (or in MM3Ds case let you warp to any specific time you want, effectively removing the 3 day system as a part of the challenge).

I mean sure, you could probably just let the player start the dungeon from specific segments and remove the timer entirely, but at that point it’s no longer Phantom Hourglass, it’s Spirit Tracks. Remakes shouldn’t cater to people who disliked the original, if that were the case then games would never be allowed to do anything unique or special. Remakes (and also a series in general) should strive to build off of what makes their predecessors so great instead of just making it more accessible.

 

[Fierce Deity Link]

I imagine Windwaker II would be like BOTW with a greatly expanded worlds to sail and visit way more islands. That has potential, but doubt it will happen. Nintendo tends stick with a trend for a while, like New Super Mario Bros. So until they exhaust the BOTW / TOTK style of game, we will get mode like them.