Timeline Impossibilities

[MrMosley]

There are many facts that go against the possibility that Zelda has an actual timeline. There are those that also greatly influence a timeline. I believe that there is a timeline, somehow, but the games we have been given so far do not do a timeline justice, and therefore a definite timeline cannot be thought up.


Here are my points.

Ocarina of Time
This game must come first, as some might say...Or must it? Think about this. Twinrova are alive and well during the events of Oracle of Ages/Seasons. In Ocarina, they were killed off by Link. And weren't they nice witches in Termina? Being that Termina has a lot of the same races/characters as Ocarina, I believe that the Twin Rova in Ocarina and the ones in Majora were different, or parallel. The ones in the Oracles must be the same as Ocarina, as their ties with Ganon and their evil ways are too similar for these games.


Twilight Princess
The geography for Hyrule in this game is way too similar to that of Ocarina to be a "new Hyrule". My point being that in Wind Waker, Link and Zelda set off to discover a "new Hyrule", which would be almost impossible to find with the same geographical makeup of the original. So Twilight must have taken place after Ocarina and before Wind Waker, right? Wrong... If Twilight took place after Ocarina, then the Wind Waker story wouldn't have been the same. In it, it tells of Ganon returning to Hyrule, with no Link around to save it. When Ganon returned to Hyrule from the Twilight Realm in Twilight Princess, there was a Link there or we would have no game to play.


A Link to the Past
The Imprisoning War...What I believe to be an exhagerated story of Ocarina, and others believe to be something totally different... Either way, it tells of Ganon being imprisoned by six sages. To me, this is too similar to Ocarina to not be influenced by, or be the same story told different, as Ocarina. So, a Link to the Past must take place long after Ocarina. Long enough for the story to be twisted in a way that a simple battle is believed now to have been a full blown war. So Ganon was put in the Sacred Realm, which became the dark realm. Link went and whooped him, so there he was, defeated. This would mean that he remained within the Dark World, only to regain power some time later and be able to return at a time when Link wasn't around, as told in Wind Waker's opening. So when must have this happend? It would have had to be when Link either stayed in Termina, or stayed in Holodrum/Labrynna, which brings me to the Oracle series.


Oracle of Ages/Seasons
I made a point earlier in the Ocarina section of how this game has a good chance of taking place prior to the events of Ocarina. That point was the death of Twinrova. Now, as far as the Oracles, we see Twinrova trying to revive Ganon. These games would have been a good sequel to Majora's Mask, having the same Link from Ocarina saving these new lands, but who revived Twinrova for them to return in Oracle? So here we have Oracle maybe happening before Ocarina, in which case another game would have to have taken place before the Oracles in order for Ganon to be dead. But which game would that have been?


So, even though it may not be right, and I may even partly disagree with it myself, in thinking of a valid timeline, we must consider that when these games were made, there was no timeline. Nintendo didnt even know if there was going to be a third Zelda. Maybe they tried to link games like Alttp and Ocarina with the similar stories, and maybe even the Oracles with Oot...But they seem to only be reusing the same races and similar looking characters with similar storylines to tell the same legend in as many ways as they can. This isn't such a bad thing. A timeline would mean a structure to the series. It would also mean that the games must all fit somehow together. With a structure, it limits the creativity of what can be of the series.

[zeypherlink]

I don't feel like quoting you, so I'll disprove your points like this.

#1- Yes, Koume and Kotake were killed off by Link. In the Adult timeline. This explains why they're alive in MM, which is the Child timeline, and in the Oracles, which fit into the Child timeline.

#2- That would be true...but we have to think about the split timeline. TP has to place in the Child timeline to be accurate, because of what you said about TWW. It also explains why ALttP, FSA, and the Oracles all go in the Child timeline.

#3- I believe the events you speak of occur right before TP, when the sages capture Ganondorf and seal him into the Twilight Realm. You have to think split timeline for this...In the Adult timeline, Ganon/dorf was beaten by Link and sealed away. In the Child timeline, Ganondorf still hasn't been sealed...so there's somewhat of a "war" to get him in.

#4- Ok, so pretty much what I said before..."Yes, Koume and Kotake were killed off by Link. In the Adult timeline. This explains why they're alive in MM, which is the Child timeline, and in the Oracles, which fit into the Child timeline." ALttP places right before the Oracles, and if you remember correctly, Ganon/dorf was destroyed by Link in ALttP, so that would explain why Koume and Kotake were reviving him.

Anything I'm missing?

[MrMosley]

Ok, but heres one major problem with the Adult Timeline. How is it even existant? If Link, as a kid, travelled through time seven years to the point to where Ganon had risen to power, acquired the Triforce of Power, and defeated him, then travelled back to the exact point in which he left, that would render everything he done as an adult in the future, non existant.

I can try to structure it out like this:

Ocarina of Time
Kid Link---Pulls out Master Sword, travels through time seven years.
Adult Link---Defeats Ganon seven years in future, returns to point at which left as kid, 7 years before.
Kid Link---Resumes life from the point at which he left for the future, meaning he never officially left. Ganon is still alive at this point. Link goes off to find Navi.

Majora's Mask
Kid Link---Goes to Termina to find Navi. Defeates Majora's Mask. Returns to forest, however it is unknown and can only be assumed that Link returned to Hyrule.

***If Kid Link returned---He was summoned by the Triforce some time later to go to Holodrum and Labrynna to stop Koume and Kotake (never killed because the Adult Timeline hasn't happend) from reviving a dead Ganon (who also was never defeated yet because its still within the Child Timeline)

***If Kid Link didn't return---He remained in Termina for his life, Ganon somehow "returned" from the sacred realm he was sealed within, but could not have possibly happend yet because the Adult Timeline did not yet exist.


So the point about Koume and Kotake had been proven by you that I was wrong in assuming they were dead at the time of the Oracles. But it also brings up this other point about Ganon. Meaning that there would have had to be a story that took place prior to Ocarina where Ganon was sealed away within the realm, in order for him to ever return from it.

[zeypherlink]

Time travel hurts my head...
Uh...

No, because the events already happened, and it's only Link who goes back, it's not like the whole space time continueum goes back or something.

Kind of like in Back to the Future, when Marty gives Doc the letter telling him he's gonna die, and it changes what happens in the future when he goes back...to the future...If that makes any sense.

[MrMosley]

Right, and I had an idea that movie would come into effect here, lol. But the thing is that in the movie, the future was changed in the past. In Ocarina, the future is being changed in the future and not the past. There was no way for kid Link to stop Ganon in the past. Thats why he was sent seven years in the future in the first place. But if he returned, he would have erased anything that took place in the future by not staying there.


I did come up with a new theory though which may be something interesting towards a potential storyline.

It says in the opening of TWW that a Hero defeated Ganon and sealed him away within the realm, but left and never returned when Ganon escaped the realm. To me, this could mean what it meant literally, that Ganon was sealed away and came back later, or it could mean that my theory about the Adult Timeline not existing was correct.

If Link defeated Ganon in the future, he would have been praised for his efforts and reguarded as a hero. But if he returned to his kid time, those events would have never happend. So in TWW's opening it could mean, Link defeated Ganon, and Hyrule praisd him for a time. But upon returning to the past, rendering his efforts non existant, and leaving for Termina, when Ganon indeed escaped the Sacred Realm, Link was never there to defeat him.

Could be.....

[zeypherlink]

When Link is sent back into the past, it creates an alternate timeline, like in Back to the Future when the alternate timeline was created when Biff got Grey's Sports Almanac. It's kind of the same thing if you think about it...

[Leix]

When Link is sent back into the past, it creates an alternate timeline, like in Back to the Future when the alternate timeline was created when Biff got Grey's Sports Almanac. It's kind of the same thing if you think about it...

Only one problem.
Changing the future dosen't change the past.
In BTTF, they changed the past which alters the future.

For some reason, Ganon, Link, and presumabley Navi aren't affected by time travel and stayed where they were (otherwise Link wouldn't set out to find Navi in MM, because she'd be in the forest).
My guess is that Zelda sent him to an alternate dimension where everything is happy(would explain the lack of Navi). Or in the Sacred Realm, time dosen't move.
Ah this is the only problem i've ever seen with the split timeline. Changing the future dosen't affect the past. so what in hyrule really happened?

[El Bagu]

Right, and I had an idea that movie would come into effect here, lol. But the thing is that in the movie, the future was changed in the past. In Ocarina, the future is being changed in the future and not the past. There was no way for kid Link to stop Ganon in the past. Thats why he was sent seven years in the future in the first place. But if he returned, he would have erased anything that took place in the future by not staying there.


I did come up with a new theory though which may be something interesting towards a potential storyline.

It says in the opening of TWW that a Hero defeated Ganon and sealed him away within the realm, but left and never returned when Ganon escaped the realm. To me, this could mean what it meant literally, that Ganon was sealed away and came back later, or it could mean that my theory about the Adult Timeline not existing was correct.

If Link defeated Ganon in the future, he would have been praised for his efforts and reguarded as a hero. But if he returned to his kid time, those events would have never happend. So in TWW's opening it could mean, Link defeated Ganon, and Hyrule praisd him for a time. But upon returning to the past, rendering his efforts non existant, and leaving for Termina, when Ganon indeed escaped the Sacred Realm, Link was never there to defeat him.

Could be.....

Was he really sent to the future? Did not time pass by while his soul was resting or something (damn it does not feel good to not be able to express exactly what you want..............)

[Brandon]

First off, I think all of the problems listed in the first post are problems easily solved by the split timeline theory, so we have to accept a split timeline. Now, making sense of the split is a whole different issue, and I think it is a mistake to assume real world physics in the zelda universe. Since we know a split timeline is the only option, we have to accept that the physics works (within the zelda universe). It is working backwards to argue that the split timeline doesn't work because the physics don't fit. If zelda fans want to tease out the physics of the zelda universe, that's fine, but any acceptable theory about time in the world of Hyrule should take the split timeline as axiomatic.

I think the best explanation is that the nature of the time travel caused by zelda using the ocarina of time on Link is different from the time travel resulting from Link pulling the master sword the master sword. I also think it is significant that the door of time closes at the end (perhaps effectively closing off the possibility of affecting the future created by adult link). We also do not know whether Link travels back to the same point at the end as he had been traveling back to throughout the game.

Some of these explanations, like the door of time closing affecting the flow of events, may not fit the real world physics everyone has been assuming, but we have to remember we are talking about a world with magic, deities, and other fantastical elements that would alter the way time and space operate.

[MrMosley]

A split timeline still dosen't solve why Twin Rova are trying to revive a dead Ganon, when there was no place for Ganon to die. You can say well, the Oracle series had Twin Rova because they take place when they are still alive, within the Child timeline, whether it be after Majora's Mask or whatever, but if you say that, theres no point at which Ganon was actually killed.

[Brandon]

Actually, the split timeline can explain the fact that ganon is dead and that twinrova is alive. The oracles games take place after ALttP in which gannon was killed at the end, and all of this is on the child side of the timeline in which twinrova was never killed. In the child timeline, link goes of to Termina, and ganon is sent into the twilight realm by the sages (which are not gone at this point -- In the adult timeline, apparently these sages are killed because adult link has to awaken new sages.)

[MrMosley]

Actually, the split timeline can explain the fact that ganon is dead and that twinrova is alive. The oracles games take place after ALttP in which gannon was killed at the end, and all of this is on the child side of the timeline in which twinrova was never killed. In the child timeline, link goes of to Termina, and ganon is sent into the twilight realm by the sages (which are not gone at this point -- In the adult timeline, apparently these sages are killed because adult link has to awaken new sages.)

I'm talking about the Oracles taking place within the same timeline that Ocarina started though. A lof of people believe that Link returned to Hyrule from Termina because he is shown riding Epona, or some horse, there, when then he is called upon by the Triforce. In that case, Ganon would not have been killed off yet.

Theories like yours, saying that the Oracle games took place after ALttP, maybe that might be true...It makes good sense to me at least that its the answer to Ganon being dead...But the Oracle series, being made directly after Majora's Mask, and having Twin Rova in them, makes me believe that they were meant to connect to the timeline which Ocarina started.

[Brandon]

That's a good point. However, We find out in TP that Ganon is brought to trial and sent into the twilight realm on the child side of OoT. That means that when Link returns to Hyrule, Ganon is in the twilight realm. In that case Ganon was not dead, so the Oracles games cannot go here. I think that the inclusion of Twinrova in MM really does have to do with the fact that it was developed right after MM, but I think that the timeline still has to have the oracles games after ALttP to make sense. Also, We can be pretty sure that the Link in LA is the one from ALttP, and I have heard that the oracles games end with link sailing away on a boat much like the one in LA. (I have the oracles games, but haven't gotten to play throught them yet, so though I've heard how they end, I've not seen it yet. The boat might be in one of the individual endings rather than the joint ending)

[OCDays]

I dont see how Twilight Princess could be involved in any possible timeline, the layout of Hyrule is...different for sure but it does have similarities but besides that, Lon Lon Ranch doesnt appear in TP, and the Temple of Time is decrepit, the only time it might fit in would be way after OofT. Ganon was sealed in both OofT and before TP, but in different places and by different methods, I think that each game is pretty much separate, or so far apart timewise as not to bother.

That considered, we do know that Link, or some form of him, is reincarnated, so is Zelda, so why can't Ganon be brought back over time, it would help things out a whole lot, although if he was I can't see why he would need help to be revived, but it would explain why sages would want him sealed away, if he didn't die he wouldn't be able to be reincarnated.

Hmm... I don't think i really cleared anything up... but maybe some food for thought

[Skull_Kid]

I just hope when people will stop trying to figure out something that NINTENDO already stated that doesn't exist- a timeline for zelda!
maybe one day... but for now there's now concrete timeline?

[Brandon]

I just hope when people will stop trying to figure out something that NINTENDO already stated that doesn't exist- a timeline for zelda!
maybe one day... but for now there's now concrete timeline?

Maybe there is and maybe there isn't an official timeline. If there isn't we can still try to come up with the BEST fan created timeline possible, and the debate serves to move us toward that. On the other hand, considering some of the statements made about split timelines and the like by "official" Zelda staff and the definite connections between the last several games, I think that even if there is not a completely determined official timeline, it is still very likely that nintendo has some basic timeline structure in mind that currently serves as a guide for making new games.

[Bluelink6]

You're right. Doesn't the triforce of power stop ganon dying?

[Midna666]

Whenever time travel is involved nothing makes sense.

[kpllk]

When is Nintend going to realese a timeline? thet would help us out a lot in this conversation. I said pretty much the same think skullkid did. But I have been on nintendo's website before and there was a "contact us" part of the site. Someone should just E-mail them asking for the timeline.

[Midna666]

I doubt that Nintendo will ever give us a timeline.They just can't seem to care.

[MrMosley]

That's a good point. However, We find out in TP that Ganon is brought to trial and sent into the twilight realm on the child side of OoT. That means that when Link returns to Hyrule, Ganon is in the twilight realm. In that case Ganon was not dead, so the Oracles games cannot go here. I think that the inclusion of Twinrova in MM really does have to do with the fact that it was developed right after MM, but I think that the timeline still has to have the oracles games after ALttP to make sense. Also, We can be pretty sure that the Link in LA is the one from ALttP, and I have heard that the oracles games end with link sailing away on a boat much like the one in LA. (I have the oracles games, but haven't gotten to play throught them yet, so though I've heard how they end, I've not seen it yet. The boat might be in one of the individual endings rather than the joint ending)


I don't recall the TP story stating that Ganondorf's trial took place during the child timeline. That sounds more like speculation than an actual stating of what the game itself said. Its good though, whether its your idea of what happend or what actually was said to have happend, it makes perfect sense, since Ganondorf did turn his back on the King of Hyrule even before he entered the Sacred Realm in OoT, we know he would still be punished for his actions. If anything, TP didn't answer anything for me as far as a timeline goes. Its hard to place TP anywhere in a timeline in my book, other than the fact that it seems to take place before Hyrule was flooded, and apparently after OoT since everyone has their pieces of the Triforce.






I doubt that Nintendo will ever give us a timeline.They just can't seem to care.

Why would they not care about the people who is putting money in their bank accounts? That dosen't make sense, that they just don't care enough to state a timeline. There are only two options, either Nintendo has no yet came up with an official timeline, or they have and are building onto different parts of it which we can't seem to figure out, because we don't know what they know.

In a lot of ways, its better for them not to tell us what the timeline is. For one this part of the forum would be pretty much done with, no one would have their own views and oppinions and be pretty bored all the time, and the series wouldn't be half as fun because we would have no reason to pick out certain things that might just make one game come after the other.

[Midna666]

The reason why I said that is because Nintendo does not care about a game's story.I mean look at Mario,it's always the same thing.And he's there main character.

[Zemen]

there are games that come before OoS/OoA on the child timeline where Ganon is defeated. this would explain why Twinrova is trying to ressurect him. youre making this way more confusing than it has to be. in TP, Link defeats Ganon/dorf. thus, there are enemies trying to ressurect him, thus explaining your question.

[waldo12]

i have just thought of this in mc they say that the hold festivels ever 100 and there are kingstine pieces but none occur in oot plus in the begining there are monsters in the field and places even before ganon now in mc it says at some point the piccro make a four sword and the hero seals away all the montsers in this land which means there are no more monsters also i think mc takes place after WW because look at the land of hyrule in mc there are places not located in the oringinal hyrule like veil falls a swamp no zoros domain this is becuses this land is the place that toon link and tetra(zelda) found to be the new hyrule and if its after ww there would not be anymore zoras and few gorons like in mc and this land has the piccro plus the lands sacred sword is the four sword as the master sword was left back in hylrule

[Zemen]

i have just thought of this in mc they say that the hold festivels ever 100 and there are kingstine pieces but none occur in oot plus in the begining there are monsters in the field and places even before ganon now in mc it says at some point the piccro make a four sword and the hero seals away all the montsers in this land which means there are no more monsters also i think mc takes place after WW because look at the land of hyrule in mc there are places not located in the oringinal hyrule like veil falls a swamp no zoros domain this is becuses this land is the place that toon link and tetra(zelda) found to be the new hyrule and if its after ww there would not be anymore zoras and few gorons like in mc and this land has the piccro plus the lands sacred sword is the four sword as the master sword was left back in hylrule

the sword in WW is the master sword... and at the before you get the master sword, youre just given some random sword by the swordmaster. there is absolutely not mention of the picori in any game but MC so i dont know where you got that from..

Link and Tetra find the originial Hyrule so i dont understand why you think they are looking for a new Hyrule.

the fish in the game that give you advice could be zoras that were somehow evolved to meet the needs of living in a big ocean.

im not understanding your explanation in the first part.

for all you know, OoT comes WAY after MC and many things could change between the two games.

MC is the first game in the timeline because of obvious reasons. the story told at the beginning of the game is a legend that has nothing to do wtih any other game and is about a warrior other than Link. you start the game with no hat, which by the end of the game ends up becoming a permanent part of Links attire which explains why he wears a hat in every other game (because each warrior wants to dress like the original hero).

[waldo12]

the sword in WW is the master sword... and at the before you get the master sword, youre just given some random sword by the swordmaster. there is absolutely not mention of the picori in any game but MC so i dont know where you got that from..

Link and Tetra find the originial Hyrule so i dont understand why you think they are looking for a new Hyrule.

the fish in the game that give you advice could be zoras that were somehow evolved to meet the needs of living in a big ocean.

im not understanding your explanation in the first part.

for all you know, OoT comes WAY after MC and many things could change between the two games.

MC is the first game in the timeline because of obvious reasons. the story told at the beginning of the game is a legend that has nothing to do wtih any other game and is about a warrior other than Link. you start the game with no hat, which by the end of the game ends up becoming a permanent part of Links attire which explains why he wears a hat in every other game (because each warrior wants to dress like the original hero).
firrst i all i never said the sword wasnt the master sword im saying that because at the end of ww the master sword has been left behind in the depths of hyrule well in minish cap it has a whole new sacred sword which is the four sword so in this new land of hyrule that tetra and toon link find the name it hyrule as well and at some point monster come in which the the four sword is made and really i swear u didnt even read what i said the rito are the ones who evolved from the zoras its says that in ww and at the end of ww the king tells them that they must find a new land which they set out to do at the end of the game. i dont think u have even played WW

[Zemen]

firrst i all i never said the sword wasnt the master sword im saying that because at the end of ww the master sword has been left behind in the depths of hyrule well in minish cap it has a whole new sacred sword which is the four sword so in this new land of hyrule that tetra and toon link find the name it hyrule as well and at some point monster come in which the the four sword is made and really i swear u didnt even read what i said the rito are the ones who evolved from the zoras its says that in ww and at the end of ww the king tells them that they must find a new land which they set out to do at the end of the game. i dont think u have even played WW

hahahaha ive definitely played the game. just because i didnt remember a part from a game made 4 years ago doesnt mean i didnt play it. MC is definitely the first game in the timeline and DOES NOT come after WW. also i dont remember anything about Link and Tetra setting out to find new land for Hyrule. and im pretty sure the on the timeline, the Legend of Zelda original game is set on an ocean shoreline (and is the only game that does so) so either Link and Tetra found their new land there (and not in MC) or the oceans somehow receeded resulting in Hyrule coming back to the surface.

[waldo12]

hahahaha ive definitely played the game. just because i didnt remember a part from a game made 4 years ago doesnt mean i didnt play it. MC is definitely the first game in the timeline and DOES NOT come after WW. also i dont remember anything about Link and Tetra setting out to find new land for Hyrule. and im pretty sure the on the timeline, the Legend of Zelda original game is set on an ocean shoreline (and is the only game that does so) so either Link and Tetra found their new land there (and not in MC) or the oceans somehow receeded resulting in Hyrule coming back to the surface.

play the ending again u will see that they set out to find a new land and i just have this feeling that oot is first

[Zemen]

play the ending again u will see that they set out to find a new land and i just have this feeling that oot is first

a feeling doesnt mean youre right and im not saying im right but it makes the most sense for MC to be first for SOOOOOOOO many reasons. its the only game (besides links awakening) that has absolutely nothing to do with Ganon/dorf. my explanation for that is because Ganon/dorf had not been introduced in the series yet (he is introduced in OoT which would mean that if he is not introduced into the series yet then MC would come before OoT). and as i said before, in the original LoZ, Hyrule is set next to an ocean (and, besides for WW and PH, is the only game with an ocean). that could be the new Hyrule that Link and Tetra find which would put LoZ after WW and not MC.

[Chris]

Man, I am just getting into Timelines and it is way too hard, it all is so confusing...I think I need a tutor to help me with Timelines.

[Zemen]

i have just thought of this in mc they say that the hold festivels ever 100 and there are kingstine pieces but none occur in oot plus in the begining there are monsters in the field and places even before ganon now in mc it says at some point the piccro make a four sword and the hero seals away all the montsers in this land which means there are no more monsters also i think mc takes place after WW because look at the land of hyrule in mc there are places not located in the oringinal hyrule like veil falls a swamp no zoros domain this is becuses this land is the place that toon link and tetra(zelda) found to be the new hyrule and if its after ww there would not be anymore zoras and few gorons like in mc and this land has the piccro plus the lands sacred sword is the four sword as the master sword was left back in hylrule


nice try but your problem with that is Vaati releases the monsters from the chest that the four sword was protecting and Vaati is the one sealed in it at the end, not the monsters, so there could very well have been monsters still roaming the world. and you said that it has land that is not in OoT, but if you pay attention to the actualy way the geography is set, it is quite similar to OoT with one difference. there is a volcanic mountain in MC (just like death mountain in OoT), there is a river/lake in MC (just like lake hylia in OoT), and there are woods in MC (just like the kokiri forest in OoT). the only difference is a swamp, and for all we know, the swamp could have dried out and turned into a desert that becomes the desert in OoT. the river and woods are in just about the same locations relative to the castle as they are in OoT, and the mountain is behind right next to the castle just like in OoT.

another reason i would not put this game after WW is because there is no ocean coast to the map. if this is the new land that link and tetra find, then there must be an ocean coast somewhere. and yes, there are few gorons and no zora in the game, maybe this game takes place before those races really flourished. also in the game, there are still river zora which are the evil zora that shoot things at you from the water. if there are river zora, then there are regular zora too, just not in the game.

[MrMosley]

A lot of things could have happend to Hyrule's geography. The fact is it takes a lot longer for mountains to move around and lakes to dry up and forests to completely grow than the time periods we have between these Zelda games. Geography means little when it comes to a timeline. In fact, if you look at every Zelda title, there is some sort of mountains, some sort of forest, and some sort of lake. That dosen't mean they all take place within the same Hyrule.

[Zemen]

true, and you saying that also means that it is not evidence towards the game going after WW as well. also, just because there are certain races that exist and dont exist in a certain game does not help when placing in it in a timeline, because, like darklink said, there could be a LOT of time inbetween the games that would have explanations for why a race is or isnt there.

take WW for example, the only gorons in the game are the merchants, but them being there means that somewhere in the world there are more gorons, same thing with the Zora. waldo said that they are not in MC, which isnt true. there are river zora in MC which means that regular zora have to be somewhere in the world.

[gerudo goyo]

Twinrova are alive and well during the events of Oracle of Ages/Seasons. In Ocarina, they were killed off by Link.

Twinrova was NOT killed by Link in Ocarina of Time. I just played it like last week. At the end of the battle they fly off alive and well. I'm sure of it.

[Josh]

Nuuuuuuuuu. They had halos over their heads, which of course means they died. They were even fighting about it. :)

[gerudo goyo]

They were even fighting about it. :)

Which means they were alive:)

[Josh]

Them fighting about doesn't have to mean that they're alive, they could have simply been there for about a minute before they went to some place like heaven or hell. They simply stayed there for a while, complained, and then went to some afterlife.

[Midna666]

Here are some things that we do know about the timeline.
Zelda 1&2 both have the same Link.
OOT and MM have the same Link.
WW and PH have the same Link.
MM and TP both take place in the child timeline.
And WW and PH take place in the adult timeline.

[Karashimu]

“
For every Zelda game we tell a new story, but we actually have an enormous document that explains how the game relates to the others, and bind them together. But to be honest, they are not that important to us. We care more about developing the game system... give the player new challenges for every chapter that is born.
„


—Shigeru Miyamoto, 2003

[MrMosley]

Here are some things that we do know about the timeline.
Zelda 1&2 both have the same Link.
OOT and MM have the same Link.
WW and PH have the same Link.
MM and TP both take place in the child timeline.
And WW and PH take place in the adult timeline.

We also know that the Oracle games would have taken place during the Chlid Timeline as well, seeing as how Twinrova are killed in the Adult Timeline in OoT.

[Zemen]

A lot of things could have happend to Hyrule's geography. The fact is it takes a lot longer for mountains to move around and lakes to dry up and forests to completely grow than the time periods we have between these Zelda games. Geography means little when it comes to a timeline. In fact, if you look at every Zelda title, there is some sort of mountains, some sort of forest, and some sort of lake. That dosen't mean they all take place within the same Hyrule.

i just noticed you said it would take a supreme amount of time for mountains to move, but have you taken into account that maybe the castle moved? maybe natural disaster occured and the place was destroyed or they thought it was a safer location by demolishing and rebuilding over the years. in every zelda game, the castle is never in a same spot as it was in a previous game, obviously the castle positions have moved over the years and that would make more sense than the earth moving around it.

[MrMosley]

i just noticed you said it would take a supreme amount of time for mountains to move, but have you taken into account that maybe the castle moved? maybe natural disaster occured and the place was destroyed or they thought it was a safer location by demolishing and rebuilding over the years. in every zelda game, the castle is never in a same spot as it was in a previous game, obviously the castle positions have moved over the years and that would make more sense than the earth moving around it.


This is true. I did take a look at the ALttP map once and tried to position the castle in different ways to see if that was the case. Here are my conclusions in comparison to turning the castle in all directions:

Because of image restraints, I will only explain some of the maps below rather than offering an image of them.


Original ALttP Map

Mountains to the North/Northeast
Lake to the Southeast
Desert to the Southwest
Forest to the Northwest


Flipped Version 1
http://i42.tinypic.com/hstiqo.png

Mountains to the East/Southeast
Lake to the Southwest
Desert to the Northwest
Forest to the Northeast


Flipped Version 2
http://i44.tinypic.com/25k75o2.png

Mountains to the South
Lake to the Northwest
Desert to the Notheast
Forest to the Southeast


Flipped Version 3
http://i41.tinypic.com/wiamg2.png

Mountains to the West/Northwest
Lake to the Northeast
Desert to the Southeast
Forest to the Southwest


Now lets take a look at some of the other Hyrule world maps:

Ocarina of Time

Mountains to the East
Lake to the South/Southwest
Desert to the West
Forest to the Southeast

The closest you can come to any of the ALttP maps compared with the OoT map would be the Flipped Version 1. In that instance, mountains, lake, and even desert would match up, but not the forest. So that one is questionable. We also know that Twilight Princess has pretty much everything in coordination with this map, so we will consider both here.


Legend of Zelda/Adventure of Link
http://www.northcastle.co.uk/archive/history/map_h2.jpg

This is a pretty large map, as the Legend of Zelda played on the southern Hyrule portion, while Adventure of Link played in the North. It also does not have an official Hyrule Castle. Therefore, we will say that the map is in relation to the North Palace and/or the Great Palace, as the layout is the same no matter which is used.

Mountains in the South
Lake (could be anywhere almost)
Desert in the North/Northeast
Forest in the South

This map is similar to the setup of Flipped Version 2. However, in the map, Death Mountain is the point which the mountains are considered, and the forest can be left to the Lost Woods all the way to almost the other side of South Hyrule. The one problem with this is that the lake location is not really specified. In the FV2 map, the lake is in the Northwest section of Hyrule. But seeing as how it is questionable, the lake could be somewhere off the map.


Finall, lets take a look at the map for Minish Cap

Mountains in the West/Southwest
Lake in the Southeast
Desert is not specified, could be the Swamp (southwest)
Forest in the Southeast, south of Lake

This Map has similarities with the original and flipped version of the ALttP map, but so does all the rest of them. The fact is, this map has no more than one thing in the same location as the ALttP maps, so it basically is ruled out.



Because of all this, we can conclude that some of the maps have similarities, but mountains moving locations takes thousands, if not millions of years. It also would take a long time for a desert to flood or a lake to dry out, or a forest to grow. Therefore, my theory is that geography does not play a very promising role in justifying an accurate timeline yet.

[Moosh_is_cool]

I see the point you and zemen have made, dark link, but something niether of you took into account is, this is a video game, and magic exists within the game. So wouldn't it be possible for dieties such as Din to make some of these geographic changes faster than nature could by itself? For example, the 3 godesses floded the world to stop Ganon (in the backstory of WW). Do you expect them to have done this quickly, or slowly? I would think they completed this task quickly, to stop ganon. I doubt 3 inches of water a minute would keep Ganon away :).

[MrMosley]

I see the point you and zemen have made, dark link, but something niether of you took into account is, this is a video game, and magic exists within the game. So wouldn't it be possible for dieties such as Din to make some of these geographic changes faster than nature could by itself?

That 'could' happen Moosh, but that again is something that is an unproven event. It also raises questions like, "Why would they do that?" And why would they? What would possess the goddesses to switch around the lakes, mountains, and forests of Hyrule for no reason? There certainly isn't any significance for it judging by the events within the games. Plus, the goddesses created Hyrule and left. They wouldn't return just to switch around the scenery. The only proven time that the goddesses interfeared with the events taking place in Hyrule was when they had to flood it because the Hero of Time was not around whenever Ganon escaped the Sacred Realm.