Rating: Proof of It's Darkness?

[Master Kokiri 9]

Okay so earlier I was at a Gamestop and I discovered something that kinda caught me off guard. I looked at all the displays and a big box with Link and Phantom Zelda (my unofficial name for Zelda in Phantom form) and noticed the rating: E-10. Now this struck me as odd because to my knowledge no other Zelda to date has been given that rating (granted TP got a T rating but that's another story). And even to my knowledge MM was rated E. This might just be proof that ST is darker than MM. So what do you think?

[elliotstriforce]

that is proof that st has hidden dark secrets that nintendo is not telling us.

[Raven]

nope i dont think so, the rating was only used because they "could." It is a new rating but i believe that if E-10 did not exist E would have sufficed for the games rating. E-10 simply means that the game has themes that are easier for 10+ year olds to understand and comprehend (ex that Zelda was turned into a spirit, this is a difficult concept for most kids under the age of 10). But that doesn't mean that a kid under 10 couldnt play the game and understand what it's about that is why E would have been ok. Im just saying that ST is not darker than MM if E-10 as a rating had existed when MM came out im sure it would have received that rating too.

I know lots of people want ST to be dark like a few of the past games but if anything I think ST will be a "brighter" MM.
that was quite profound... you can quote me on that lol.

[NorthApple]

Nah... the rating just means the "dark" themes are more obvious/can be spotted by children under 10 (e.g. Zelda being a Spirit... flying Demonic Trains etc)... a lot of what makes MM as dark as it is are various undertones that I know I didn't fully pick up on as a kid. Also, PH is rated 7+ here in the UK, and apparently ST is only a 7.... o_O

But yeah, I agree with Raven above me, ST's not going to be as dark as people are making out... but a brighter MM sounds awesome C:

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

Let us not forget OoT's E rating, along with Ganon coughing up blood and the walls of the Shadow Temple being painted with the red stuff as well.

No, this is just the rating system getting more strict. Can we honestly say that OoT and MM would be given the same E ranking if they were released today? I don't think so. I think both of those games would've warranted at least a E10 rating, perhaps even a T.

[Kitsu]

Ver-go makes a good point here. If Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask were released today, they'd probably hold the E 10+ rating as well. Hell, there's sections in Ocarina of Time where you can clearly see blood stains (which I think would count as 'realistic blood' under the ESRB system), such as under the well, and as previously mentioned, Ganondorf coughs up blood.

Also, with the addition of ratings like the 'E 10+', the rating system has gotten stricter, so I don't think its rating is really a valid thing to go by.

[Gohma]

Also, ratings can sometimes be assigned because of a single scene, dungeon or idea...
It doesn't necessarily mean that the whole game will be dark.

[Master Kokiri 9]

Yeah I guess you guys are right. It's just that I don't know anything about how the ESRB rating system changed. I don't worry about the ratings. And also now that I do know, I agree that OoT and MM would've also been in (or past) the E-10 rating.

[elliotstriforce]

Let us not forget OoT's E rating, along with Ganon coughing up blood and the walls of the Shadow Temple being painted with the red stuff as well.

No, this is just the rating system getting more strict. Can we honestly say that OoT and MM would be given the same E ranking if they were released today? I don't think so. I think both of those games would've warranted at least a E10 rating, perhaps even a T.

ganondorf pukes afteryou beat him. the same substance that barinade turns into. puke of defeat.

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

ganondorf pukes afteryou beat him. the same substance that barinade turns into. puke of defeat.

No, I'm quite sure he's coughing up blood once you beat him. It may have been changed in later versions (Collectors Edition, Virtual Console etc.), but in the original 1.0 version, it was blood. In fact, quite a bit was edited from the original version when it was re-released in other ways. The Fire Temple Music and Mirror Shield design are two examples. Anyhow, even without the blood, I think the Shadow Temple alone is enough to warrant at least an E10 rating by today's standards, same as ST is right now. Heck, it would probably be higher.

[Kitsu]

In the original version of Ocarina of Time Ganondorf does cough up blood:

http://www.platypuscomix.net/interactive2/censorship1.JPG

Whereas later it was changed to this:

http://www.platypuscomix.net/interactive2/censorship2.JPG

The 1.0 version also had this:

http://www.platypuscomix.net/interactive2/censorship3.JPG

There is also blood in other sections of the game, for example:

http://www.platypuscomix.net/interactive2/floormaster5.JPG

[Axle the Beast]

The E10+ rating didn't EXIST when Majora's Mask came out. I will say this definitely means Spirit Tracks will be more mature than Phantom Hourglass. But more mature, not necessarily darker. The rating system indicates the recommended age for people who play the game, not how dark the tone is. Keep it mind it only implies it's more mature than PH, NOT Wind Waker or Minish Cap, as I'm almost 100% certain both of them came out before the E10+ rating was implemented. I know WW did, MC is the only one I have vague doubts about.

Based on what we know about the game, I find it next to impossible for ST to be darker than MM. Especially considering that Zelda is not exactly dead, and that the game seems to keep the tone light even during plot elements surrounding Zelda's "death". I'm actually betting that the tone of WW will be darker (if you think about it, WW had some dark or at least sad moments during the second half of the game). But of course, this is just my opinion, and is a little beside the point of the thread. ;)



No, I'm quite sure he's coughing up blood once you beat him. It may have been changed in later versions (Collectors Edition, Virtual Console etc.), but in the original 1.0 version, it was blood. In fact, quite a bit was edited from the original version when it was re-released in other ways. The Fire Temple Music and Mirror Shield design are two examples. Anyhow, even without the blood, I think the Shadow Temple alone is enough to warrant at least an E10 rating by today's standards, same as ST is right now. Heck, it would probably be higher.
I agree. There are many other aspects of the Shadow Temple that warranted a higher rating as well, such as the prevalence of torture devices, the Dead Hand's bloodstained body and disturbing appearance, Bongo Bongo's macabre design with his severed hands and head, and finally the weird, cryptic and disturbing lines spoken by voices in the Shadow Temple and Bottom of the Well.

[Master Kokiri 9]

Okay so we all know that OoT and MM also would've warrented an E-10 rating should it have existed when they were released. Moving on we also know that ST is rated E-10. And ladies and gentlemen, it's a TOON Zelda! This to me, proves 150% that ST is at the very least as dark as MM. With toon graphics, there can be no possibility of blood (and toon blood would immediately create an E-10 rating) or other such things that would instantly make a game E-10 material.

[Kitsu]

Okay so we all know that OoT and MM also would've warrented an E-10 rating should it have existed when they were released. Moving on we also know that ST is rated E-10. And ladies and gentlemen, it's a TOON Zelda! This to me, proves 150% that ST is at the very least as dark as MM. With toon graphics, there can be no possibility of blood (and toon blood would immediately create an E-10 rating) or other such things that would instantly make a game E-10 material.

Just because it got an E-10 rating doesn't make it automatically "as dark" as Majora's Mask. Blood isn't the only thing that factors into making something darker, although it can undoubtedly play a big part.

Majora's Mask had a lot of psychological aspects that made it darker, i.e the fact that the moon was going to fall, yet there were some people who thought they could be saved by going to the ranch ( Anju and her family, etc.). There was also the fact that when Link reset the time, no one else remembered him, so, even if he helped someone, they would not remember it, adding a sense of isolation and loneliness.

Also, there can be blood in games like these, there's a rating called "animated blood", which is essentially what Twilight Princess had (the blood looks less realistic, unlike the blood in Ocarina of Time).

[Master Kokiri 9]

Just because it got an E-10 rating doesn't make it automatically "as dark" as Majora's Mask. Blood isn't the only thing that factors into making something darker, although it can undoubtedly play a big part.

Majora's Mask had a lot of psychological aspects that made it darker, i.e the fact that the moon was going to fall, yet there were some people who thought they could be saved by going to the ranch ( Anju and her family, etc.). There was also the fact that when Link reset the time, no one else remembered him, so, even if he helped someone, they would not remember it, adding a sense of isolation and loneliness.

Also, there can be blood in games like these, there's a rating called "animated blood", which is essentially what Twilight Princess had (the blood looks less realistic, unlike the blood in Ocarina of Time).

Okay I don't think I made myself very clear. What I meant was that yes indeed blood plays a big part in a game's rating but like you said it isn't everything. My thought was that if MM was released today as it is in it's most recent version (Virtual Console) it would have at least an E-10 rating.

ST however doesn't stand much chance of having blood or gore or anything like that so if it was rated E-10 don't you think it would be pretty damn dark and depressing in the league of Twilight Princess and Majora's Mask? I would and do.

[0o0oAdamo0o0]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't ESRB re-rate games when they come out on the VC? MM just came out on the VC this year, and it still got the E rating. Or do they not change the ratings for N64 games? I know the only reason they go over SNES, NES, Turbo-grafx, Genesis, etc. games is because they never had ratings, but wouldn't it make sense for them to go back over the N64 games too?

[Twili Kid]

Well I wouldn't think ST is dark because of its rating E-10 games are rated that on the idea of the game instead of the darkness, blood, gore. (e.g. Scribblenauts E-10 rating was most likely for many children under 10 wouldn't have as an extensive vocabulay that some one in 4th or 5th grade would to solve the games puzzles.) So maybe Spirit tracks has something children under 10 could understand. Hopefully it's not the reason "Zelda games are so hard we have to move up the rating because a mother complained that her 7 year old boy couldn't beat *Insert game here* " . Another reason might be because ERSB is getting stricter with its ratings.

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

Well I wouldn't think ST is dark because of its rating E-10 games are rated that on the idea of the game instead of the darkness, blood, gore. (e.g. Scribblenauts E-10 rating was most likely for many children under 10 wouldn't have as an extensive vocabulay that some one in 4th or 5th grade would to solve the games puzzles.) So maybe Spirit tracks has something children under 10 could understand. Hopefully it's not the reason "Zelda games are so hard we have to move up the rating because a mother complained that her 7 year old boy couldn't beat *Insert game here* " . Another reason might be because ERSB is getting stricter with its ratings.

This is true. A game isn't always rated higher just because it holds content that's inappropriate for certain people. Sometimes it's just because it might be too hard for those people. You mention Scribblenauts, whihc is an excellent example, and since Zelda has always had a puzzle solving aspect to it, it would make sense that if the game is indeed harder, five year olds wouldn't be able to solve a vast majority of what the game had too offer. It could just be rated E10 for "difficulty" you could say. But eh, I saw that Spirit Tracks isn't all that hard, so maybe we're both wrong.