Dungeons V.S. Temples

[Axle the Beast]

Technically, the correct term is "dungeon", although the first and second games referred to them as labyrinths and palaces, respectively. But I'm still pretty sure they were referred to as dungeons in those games.

Anyway, with the advent of Ocarina of Time, there seem to be more and more "temples". OoT had a lot of them because of it's story involving the Sages, but since then we still keep seeing them. I suppose this is because the series has been having a lot of dungeons that weren't innately evil places, they were corrupted by whatever villain or evil was present in the game in question.

Anyway, as the sheer amount of temples increases, we're starting to see games where most of the dungeons are temples, and we're beginning to get a confusion over the two terms. Now I see people calling all the dungeons "temples" even though the correct term is dungeon.

It personally drives be a bit crazy. Not that we have the temples in the games, I don't mind that so much (although a little more variety would be nice). I'm referring to the confusion over the terms. The proper term is "dungeon". Some dungeons are temples, but the terms don't mean the same thing.

Thoughts?

[DesertDweller]

Personally, it makes no difference to me. While it would sound odd to hear someone say dungeon when it should be temple or the other way around, it's usually obvious what they're referring to. Not a big deal imo.

However, I just realized that I can't think of a single dungeon usually expressed that way. Usually I think of it as, say, OoT has X dungeons, some of which include the Forest Temple, Water Temple, and Fire Temple.

Makes no difference to me if someone uses the terms correctly or not.

[Josh]

Dungeons and Temples HAVE always seemed to be a different for me, if only in my mind.

Dungeons are kind of the.....dirty, cave places that are really very well made, kind of out in the middle of nowhere, nothing important, like the spot was just dug out of a rock or something. Like, the Forest....Temple in TP, or the Great Deku Tree. Great examples.

Temples, are places of more elegance, places that have taken time to construct, have some importance, like the Spirit Temple or Fire Temple in OoT, those places took some time, and held great importance.

It seems more or less now just Nintendo's fault, for not really caring anymore, and just calling one one or the other randomly. It always bugs me in TP when play through the Forest....Temple to have to call it the Forest Temple, because it looks nothing like a Temple.

[basement24]

It's odd to use dungeon as an all encompassing term when it, along with temple, palace and labyrinth are specifically describing how a location is laid out or what kind of 'building' that location is in.

There are some places that are just random, just as Inside Jabu-Jabu's belly. That really doesn't deserve the title of temple, or dungeon. If anything, it should probably be described as a labyrinth since it's maze like, but I think most default to dungeon because it's a video game term. People will state that games with these types of level locations are dungeon crawlers, so I think that's why most call the levels in Zelda games by that term.

Really though, none of them are correct terms to describe each and every one of the levels in Zelda. Dungeon seems like a good default as a video game term, but it's still technically wrong. The definition is a room to confine prisoners, and only a few of the levels are actually places that are used (or were used) in this manner. Temple is wrong for some because they are not all palces of worship or of meetings. Palace is wrong for some because they are not large residences or places of royalty and the like.

So really, labyrinth is the best term since they are all interconnecting passages that it can be difficult to find one's way through. But really, since you're given a map about 1/4 of the way through, is it really that hard?

So overall, I wouldn' say there's any correct definition to cover each and every level. Even level is wrong in terms of video game definition as such because of the open nature of Zelda games. I think dungeon just seems to be the term of choice for many because of it's video game roots, and temples the choice of some because of it's Zelda roots. Neither are completely right though, and neither are completely wrong.

[Axle the Beast]

Dungeons and Temples HAVE always seemed to be a different for me, if only in my mind.

Dungeons are kind of the.....dirty, cave places that are really very well made, kind of out in the middle of nowhere, nothing important, like the spot was just dug out of a rock or something. Like, the Forest....Temple in TP, or the Great Deku Tree. Great examples.

Temples, are places of more elegance, places that have taken time to construct, have some importance, like the Spirit Temple or Fire Temple in OoT, those places took some time, and held great importance.

It seems more or less now just Nintendo's fault, for not really caring anymore, and just calling one one or the other randomly. It always bugs me in TP when play through the Forest....Temple to have to call it the Forest Temple, because it looks nothing like a Temple.
I see your point. Regardless of the correct term, both terms really have different meanings. The same could be said for palaces, other recurring areas in the games. Caves and caverns too, actually.

I still kind of see how the Forest Temple in Twilight Princess works, though. A temple is a place of worship, generally, so whatever the place was it was sacred to the people of the forest (or just the monkeys :P ) and was built to fit the forest. It is still strange, though, and I see your point. :sweat:



It's odd to use dungeon as an all encompassing term when it, along with temple, palace and labyrinth are specifically describing how a location is laid out or what kind of 'building' that location is in.

There are some places that are just random, just as Inside Jabu-Jabu's belly. That really doesn't deserve the title of temple, or dungeon. If anything, it should probably be described as a labyrinth since it's maze like, but I think most default to dungeon because it's a video game term. People will state that games with these types of level locations are dungeon crawlers, so I think that's why most call the levels in Zelda games by that term.

Really though, none of them are correct terms to describe each and every one of the levels in Zelda. Dungeon seems like a good default as a video game term, but it's still technically wrong. The definition is a room to confine prisoners, and only a few of the levels are actually places that are used (or were used) in this manner. Temple is wrong for some because they are not all palces of worship or of meetings. Palace is wrong for some because they are not large residences or places of royalty and the like.

So really, labyrinth is the best term since they are all interconnecting passages that it can be difficult to find one's way through. But really, since you're given a map about 1/4 of the way through, is it really that hard?

So overall, I wouldn' say there's any correct definition to cover each and every level. Even level is wrong in terms of video game definition as such because of the open nature of Zelda games. I think dungeon just seems to be the term of choice for many because of it's video game roots, and temples the choice of some because of it's Zelda roots. Neither are completely right though, and neither are completely wrong.
"Dungeon" is and to my knowledge has always been the correct term for the levels in a Zelda game. And I'm not just saying that because it's popular. The word dungeon has been used in the games themselves, even in reference to temples.

There's the Dungeon Map items. Then there's keys which the game states "Can only be used in the dungeon you found them in" and the description for Farore's Wind says it only works in a "Dungeon with a Dungeon Map inside it". Big Keys also state that they "Open the lair of the dungeon's boss".

And that's all in Ocarina of Time, the game with the most temples, and it also contains not one dungeon that actually feels like a dungeon. OoT isn't the only game in the series to use the term dungeon in-game; they pretty much all do, even the recent ones.

While it's not correct in the literal sense, it is the official term, and most likely stems from the video game meanings you were referring to. It also probably comes from the fact that in the first game, the dungeons were essentially true dungeons.

[basement24]

"Dungeon" is and to my knowledge has always been the correct term for the levels in a Zelda game. And I'm not just saying that because it's popular. The word dungeon has been used in the games themselves, even in reference to temples.

But that's just it, they are referring to the term dungeon in instruction manual type phrases such as "You found the Dungeon Map!" even in places called "Temple". No one's actually saying this. It's the narration of the actions by the developer. So, in these cases, it's being using as a video game term, and not a in-world Hyrule term to describe the level.

I know what you're getting at though, and I agree in a way, but I would still say the use of it most commonly within the games tends to be as a video game description word.

[Axle the Beast]

But that's just it, they are referring to the term dungeon in instruction manual type phrases such as "You found the Dungeon Map!" even in places called "Temple". No one's actually saying this. It's the narration of the actions by the developer. So, in these cases, it's being using as a video game term, and not a in-world Hyrule term to describe the level.

I know what you're getting at though, and I agree in a way, but I would still say the use of it most commonly within the games tends to be as a video game description word.
Ahh, I get what you're saying now. Yes, that is true, within the game world these areas have no single term.

Which makes sense, actually, as they are all kinds of different locations. Temples, literal dungeons, castles, caves, etc. Even barring these distinctions they wouldn't have a common term in the world because they're not related by any other aspect other than they're where Link has to journey to. With the exception, of course, with some of the temples.

So the only common term we're going to get is a video game term, probably.

[Durion]

I guess that I'm quite guilty of using the wrong terms when talking about a certain area, this isn't because I think both the same but it's because since I've only really played games from OoT onwards that I've always refered to them as Temple's without giving it any thought.

I guess a Dungeon is just something like a cave that is cut into a large rocky area or hilly/mountainous area whereas a Temple is a more elegent building or structure. I guess I'd call places like The Forest Temple, Goron Mines and Cave of Ordeals in TP Dugeons (although the latter is more a small dungeon, but a dungeon, nonetheless.) while I'd call the rest of the places like the Arbiter's Grounds and the City in the Sky Temples.

I just guess that Temple's are something that usually has to be built from scratch for them to be classed as Temple's and not Dungeon's. I suppose though it doesn't really matter for me that I call each of these places a Temple by default because from OoT onwards most places are considered Temples anyway but it's still something that I get wrong from time to time. I suppose though that nothing actually defines which are Temple's, Dungeons or what other categories fall in this area, I don't really think Nintendo have made it clear on all of the Dungeon's/Temple's which are which. I believe that it doesn't really matter much either...

[Kotake]

Well, really, if anything...

the only 'Temple' that deserves to be called a 'Dungeon' Is the Arbiter's Grounds, since it actually was a prison of sorts.

The other places, I could see being temples. Especially in OoT. All of those places are a resting place for something that can be considered 'holy' in a sense, as these are the resting places of the Sages, the same with WW. And if you consider TP to be on the same storyline as OoT, that makes those temples as well, other than the aforementioned Arbiter's Grounds.

[zc16-rmeppelink]

Technically, the correct term is "dungeon", although the first and second games referred to them as labyrinths and palaces, respectively. But I'm still pretty sure they were referred to as dungeons in those games.

Anyway, with the advent of Ocarina of Time, there seem to be more and more "temples". OoT had a lot of them because of it's story involving the Sages, but since then we still keep seeing them. I suppose this is because the series has been having a lot of dungeons that weren't innately evil places, they were corrupted by whatever villain or evil was present in the game in question.

Anyway, as the sheer amount of temples increases, we're starting to see games where most of the dungeons are temples, and we're beginning to get a confusion over the two terms. Now I see people calling all the dungeons "temples" even though the correct term is dungeon.

It personally drives be a bit crazy. Not that we have the temples in the games, I don't mind that so much (although a little more variety would be nice). I'm referring to the confusion over the terms. The proper term is "dungeon". Some dungeons are temples, but the terms don't mean the same thing.

Thoughts?

I think that ( I am new here ) dungeons are worse that temples
:)