Should Ganondorf Have Been in TP?

[Midna666]

It seems that a lot of people felt that Ganondorf should not have been in Twilight Princess.
They feel that it hurt Zant's character.

I personally think that Ganondorf added more to the story.
And I think that it added more depth to Zant.
I liked how when you got down to you saw that Zant was just a childlike person who thought that he was better then he really was.

[basement24]

I agree, Ganondorf was a good addition. It really gave a chilling angle to Zant and how he was so desperate to become a ruler that he would do anything, even selling his soul to the devil of sorts. It also accentuated the fact that while other villains may come and go, it all boils down to who has the Triforce of Power.

I know many would disagree to Ganondorf's addtion for the exact same reason that I liked it, and that's fine, but it really did make Zant into a little something more for me. I really did like that in the end he was just a snivelling man who'd been driven mad by the power of his false god.

[Durion]

I can't really answer that poll for one reason, I neither think he should or shouldn't have been in TP, Of course with him being in TP using Zant like a Pawn added to Zant and showed us how much of a child like power hungry being he was, This added a lot to the plot which is the number 1 thing that made me love this game. One bad thing about Ganondorf being in TP though is that it cut off a major option (in my eyes this is enough to level out Ganondorf adding ot Zant), If Ganondorf was never there Nintendo could have made such a deeper back story about Zant, How he gained his true power (unlike his false power in TP) and his origins. That area could have opened a hell of a lot in terms of adding to the plot.

So as you can see, I am neither in favour or against Ganondorf being in TP, He added a lot and gave us an great 1-on-1 Sword fight but he also cut a lot of potential out for Zant.

[Cobalt]

Ganondorf will always be a staple of the Zelda franchise, having been the enemy in the (assumed) first game of the series, wielder of the Triforce of Power (BIG part of the games), and becoming the villain we all know and love as Ganon. So, I felt it natural that he made an appearance in the game that closed out the Gamecube and opened up the Wii. He had to be there, even if it was only cool symbolically.

Now, I too miss the fact that Zant was not elaborated on, and is abruptly revealed to be a pawn rather than the main villain. But it's basically the same thing that happened with Aganhim in ALTTP. Bad guy for most of the game, then BOOM, Ganon. What's sad about Zant is he's not just a power hungry evil doer. He was the classic case of a villain believing he was doing good. What he did, he did for his "people." He usurped Midna's power to protect his "people." He brought Twilight upon Hyrule as revenge for his "people." He believed he was King, and his deeds were admirable. And that's the best kind of villain, because there is no swaying them to do right. They already believe they are. Sadly, Ganondorf lacks this trait, and can be viewed simply as "evil incarnate".

So yes, I miss that Zant was not granted more time. Perhaps whoever does a comic or manga will do it right and flesh that aspect out.

[Zeruda]

Ganondorf is indeed a very important character to the series, being the mail villain and all, but I think his lack of screentime in Twilight Princess was fine- almost required. Really, it all makes a lot of sense. We see "flashbacks" of him being executed and banished to the Twilight Realm, and that really tied up loose ends with the CT side of OoT. Afterall, we left off with Link being sent back to his own time, and then he just ventured away. I remember back when those games were released, the big question was, "Well, what about Ganondorf now? What happens if Link doesn't go on that time-traveling quest?" So seeing him banished really tied that up.

And, because he was banished, it doesn't really leave a lot of room for him to have screentime in TP. It just wouldn't have been very imaginative if he randomly busted out of his prison. No, posing as a god and using a character who was weak at heart made much more sense. Really, I think it added even more depth to his character. It showed how sly he was- how he could plot and wreak havoc even from a different realm. It showed how merciless and greedy he was- Zant was his toy. Zant may have had good intentions, but he was still immature and greedy. So, Ganondorf played upon Zant's weaknesses in order to finally free himself from the Twilight Realm and ultimately have another stab at obtaining absolute power.

Really, Ganondorf was there. We just didn't see him. It's very interesting to see him pulling strings through another character. In ALttP, Agahnim was like a puppet/alter ego... think Naraku from Inu Yasha, if you're familiar with that series. Perfect example. But in TP, Zant wasn't an alter ego, he was another person with his own desires, and he was easily manipulated. I think that lack of actual screentime only emphasized how wicked Ganondorf really is.

So... TP without Ganondorf? No... it just wouldn't have clicked. Zant was interesting, but far too weak of a villain. His intentions weren't necessarily evil, so I don't think he'd have made a good overall main villain. I think Ganondorf needed to be there. They both emphasized each other's strengths and weaknesses.

[Master Kokiri 9]

I personally agree with Midna. Ganondorf being in tp was a good thing. It added to Zant's character, it added more to the story, and it was fun to see Zant all crazy (he was all mysterious at the beginning of the game but when you get to the palace of twilight he's insane i just love seeing him in the cutscene find Ganondorf and go all 'Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh').

[Werewolfy]

No, Ganondorf's being there was bad, and only hurt the game, as well as Zant, in my opinion. We didn't even know the story had anything to do with Ganondorf until the very end! This made him feel very tacked-on, and I felt that he was there for the sole purpose of making an appearance. That was a bad idea on Nintendo's part, considering that sticking anything into a game only for it to be there is a lousy idea itself. Look at the Slingshot in TP! How did that turn out? Badly done, that's how. It got replaced by the Boomerang, and later the Fairy Bow, way too quickly into the game.

Ganondorf enhanced Zant's personality? Sorry, but I don't see it. Zant was made out to be a very cool, very powerful, usurper until he revealed he followed Ganondorf. Then his character went downhill. He went from a cool, shady character, to a whiny, pathetic brat before you could say "Oh shoot!" Zant revealed that he depended solely on this "god" of his, and then threw a temper-tantrum of a battle. He wasn't even that powerful, as it turns out, since his fight was easy. It was so easy, it was mocking. Of course, this isn't saying much about the game itself, considering all the bosses were total push-overs, Ganondorf included, but I was still majorly disappointed in the fight, as well as Zant's character.

I really think Ganondorf would have fit into the game a lot better, if one of two things were done:
1.) He was said, or implied, from the start to be in the game. Rather than be shocked at his "appearance" later in the game, this way we'd have seen it coming, and would have known that Zant wasn't all he was made out to be. This could have worked for TP, but the next idea would fit in better.

2.) Ganondorf was made out to be the main bad guy from the start. No Zant. At all. Then Nintendo could have given Zant his own game, and made him out to be a much cooler, much more powerful bad guy than he really was in the end. I, personally, think this would have worked, if Nintendo decided to do it. Because, in a way, Ganondorf did belong in TP, but at the same time, due to bad planning and such, he wasn't.

So really, he was a good idea, and he wasn't. In the scenario given in the game itself, he was a bad idea, considering he destroyed Zant's potential, and felt really tacked-on. It was likely just a case of extremely bad planning, lots of ideas floating around, and so on, and it should have been edited and cleaned up at the end, for the end product.

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

To be honest, without Ganondorf in TP, the game would have been so much shallower. A great plot element of secret control was added in with him, and it was worked out to perfection. Zant WAS NOT major villain material. I really don't care if some of think he was, because it you take the time to really go in depth with his character, and his motivation, it's easy to come to the conclusion that he would have made a shallow final boss, and a very bad story would come along with him.

So no, Ganondorf saved the game. Without him, we would have had a lame plot and plot twists like WW.

[Werewolfy]

To be honest, without Ganondorf in TP, the game would have been so much shallower. A great plot element of secret control was added in with him, and it was worked out to perfection. Zant WAS NOT major villain material. I really don't care if some of think he was, because it you take the time to really go in depth with his character, and his motivation, it's easy to come to the conclusion that he would have made a shallow final boss, and a very bad story would come along with him.

So no, Ganondorf saved the game. Without him, we would have had a lame plot and plot twists like WW.
Now this is debatable. I mean, we didn't even get to know what Zant was really like, thanks to Ganondorf's introduction into the series. He came up every now and again, and most of those times was him being mentioned. So, my thoughts on this, is that it's hard to really jump to a conclusion about Zant's villain material, without more information about him. Midna made him out to be powerful, and he seemed to demonstrate that when he sucked the life out of her. This seems like villain material to me.

What we do have is that he was an over-dependent character, who relied on Ganondorf for everything. However, how do we know what he would have been like if Nintendo decided to make him the main villain, rather than Ganondorf? Do we have any idea how his character at the end might have changed, for better or for worse? Please do cite sources if you have information regarding this, even if it's the game, since I haven't played it in ages.

[Cobalt]

I have no sources, this is clearly speculation.

Zant seemed to be gravitating toward the villain who believes what he does is for the greater good. I think I went into this in my last post. Had Ganondorf not been revealed to be behind his actions, I think Zant would have proved to be a formidable opponent. A man who is evil, like Ganondorf, simply does evil for evil's sake. Zant, on the other hand, would have been doing what he viewed was right, and that would have made his confrontation with Link all the richer, with Link being viewed as the villain. In Zant's eyes, it would have been Hero vs. Hero, not Hero vs. Villain. And I must admit I think that would have been something worth playing towards.

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

Now this is debatable. I mean, we didn't even get to know what Zant was really like, thanks to Ganondorf's introduction into the series. He came up every now and again, and most of those times was him being mentioned. So, my thoughts on this, is that it's hard to really jump to a conclusion about Zant's villain material, without more information about him. Midna made him out to be powerful, and he seemed to demonstrate that when he sucked the life out of her. This seems like villain material to me.

What we do have is that he was an over-dependent character, who relied on Ganondorf for everything. However, how do we know what he would have been like if Nintendo decided to make him the main villain, rather than Ganondorf? Do we have any idea how his character at the end might have changed, for better or for worse? Please do cite sources if you have information regarding this, even if it's the game, since I haven't played it in ages.

What you have to do is think: Would this have a mad a bigger impact on the story. To have another villain, clear out of the blue, never seen before, and have him as the major antagonist of what was hyped to be the best Zelda of all time. This isn't to say other villains are bad. Majora kicked ***, but MM wasn't a highly anticipated sequel that was going to try and break Zelda records like OoT. Majora also canceled out many plot elements as well, and this is my main point. Ganondorf is in fact a staple of the series. You cannot convince me that for a game of TP's magnitude, it could have had a better plot without him. For those of us who try to follow a slim timeline, Ganondorf's inclusion was a VITAL part in the story of the Legend of Zelda. Having no one but Zant would have proved for a huge huh factor when it came to this. My main point? Plot elements. Plot elemets, plot elements, plot elements. Nothing that the Zant character could have been could compare with the deception and puppet playing element that was added, along with, as I mentioned above, the timeline. Seeing where the Triforce of Power went, what happened to him after OoT, and the fate of the sages could not be matched with just an improvement to Zant. NOTHING. He allowed the story to go deeper in a broad perspective, and it goes back to my original post. Shallowness. Ganondorf prevented a shallow game compared to others when it came to plot and story, and helped us truly recognize TP's place as a distant sequel to OoT. A tale of revenge follows with Ganondorf, as he seeks the destruction of those responsible for his defeat and imprisonment in OoT. Once again, no improved Zant could have made better plot elements than a story of revenge through deceit and manipulation of another power hungry fool. With Zant as a stand along, we had a guy who was poweful and wanted to take over the world of light. Compared to the above elements, bland and boring in my opinion.

Debatable of course. That's what a forum is all about. But I see plot elements as a HUGE advantage to Ganondorf, and plot is really all that matters on this subject.

[Werewolfy]

I have no sources, this is clearly speculation.

Zant seemed to be gravitating toward the villain who believes what he does is for the greater good. I think I went into this in my last post. Had Ganondorf not been revealed to be behind his actions, I think Zant would have proved to be a formidable opponent. A man who is evil, like Ganondorf, simply does evil for evil's sake. Zant, on the other hand, would have been doing what he viewed was right, and that would have made his confrontation with Link all the richer, with Link being viewed as the villain. In Zant's eyes, it would have been Hero vs. Hero, not Hero vs. Villain. And I must admit I think that would have been something worth playing towards.
Yeah, I really think Zant had villain potential, as I've said previously. Ganondorf seemed to steal his thunder at the end there, which I found disappointing. I was hoping to at least see him go out with a bang, but instead, he turned out to be a dud. It wouldn't have been half as bad, if Zant at least kept his cool, and was revealed to be Ganondorf's right-hand man, instead of his puppet.


What you have to do is think: Would this have a mad a bigger impact on the story. To have another villain, clear out of the blue, never seen before, and have him as the major antagonist of what was hyped to be the best Zelda of all time. This isn't to say other villains are bad. Majora kicked ***, but MM wasn't a highly anticipated sequel that was going to try and break Zelda records like OoT. Majora also canceled out many plot elements as well, and this is my main point. Ganondorf is in fact a staple of the series. You cannot convince me that for a game of TP's magnitude, it could have had a better plot without him. For those of us who try to follow a slim timeline, Ganondorf's inclusion was a VITAL part in the story of the Legend of Zelda. Having no one but Zant would have proved for a huge huh factor when it came to this. My main point? Plot elements. Plot elemets, plot elements, plot elements. Nothing that the Zant character could have been could compare with the deception and puppet playing element that was added, along with, as I mentioned above, the timeline. Seeing where the Triforce of Power went, what happened to him after OoT, and the fate of the sages could not be matched with just an improvement to Zant. NOTHING. He allowed the story to go deeper in a broad perspective, and it goes back to my original post. Shallowness. Ganondorf prevented a shallow game compared to others when it came to plot and story, and helped us truly recognize TP's place as a distant sequel to OoT. A tale of revenge follows with Ganondorf, as he seeks the destruction of those responsible for his defeat and imprisonment in OoT. Once again, no improved Zant could have made better plot elements than a story of revenge through deceit and manipulation of another power hungry fool. With Zant as a stand along, we had a guy who was poweful and wanted to take over the world of light. Compared to the above elements, bland and boring in my opinion.

Debatable of course. That's what a forum is all about. But I see plot elements as a HUGE advantage to Ganondorf, and plot is really all that matters on this subject.
And this contains truth as well, and goes back to what I've said: Ganondorf would have fit into the game much better, if one of two things were done.

1.) He was said, or implied, from the start to be in the game. Rather than be shocked at his "appearance" later in the game, this way we'd have seen it coming, and would have known that Zant wasn't all he was made out to be. This could have worked for TP, but the next idea would fit in better.

2.) Ganondorf was made out to be the main bad guy from the start. No Zant. At all. Then Nintendo could have given Zant his own game, and made him out to be a much cooler, much more powerful bad guy than he really was in the end. I, personally, think this would have worked, if Nintendo decided to do it. Because, in a way, Ganondorf did belong in TP, but at the same time, due to bad planning and such, he wasn't.
One of these things being done would have increased the quality of the game, in my opinion. And with the second one, we open up another door: another Zelda game, only with Zant instead of Ganondorf. This way, TP could have kept Ganondorf, and I would be fine with that if he at least didn't feel tacked-on like he did, and Zant could get a game to himself. Whether it be some kind of sequel to TP, or a game all by itself, does not matter. Another game would have suited Zant, since he'd finally get to be his own villain. I would have liked to see this, and he might still be able to be redeemed, if Nintendo let it happen.

So let's just say Zant does come back later, after having gone through a complicated change of character. It's in a new game, some kind of TP sequel of course, and he's ditched Ganondorf all together. He plots evil, Link destroys him, and the final confrontation reveals everything, as it always does. Or maybe there's another game, not directly related to TP, that has a main villain much like Zant was first made out to be, but isn't "ruined" at the end by someone else.

These, of course, are just ideas. Ideas I got because I was so disappointed with how Zant turned out, since I had such high expectations for him the entire time. They don't need to happen, but I wouldn't mind seeing one of them happening, preferably the second one, since the first one would be a little hard to implement properly, given the scenario.

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

t into the game much better, if one of two things were done.

One of these things being done would have increased the quality of the game, in my opinion. And with the second one, we open up another door: another Zelda game, only with Zant instead of Ganondorf. This way, TP could have kept Ganondorf, and I would be fine with that if he at least didn't feel tacked-on like he did, and Zant could get a game to himself. Whether it be some kind of sequel to TP, or a game all by itself, does not matter. Another game would have suited Zant, since he'd finally get to be his own villain. I would have liked to see this, and he might still be able to be redeemed, if Nintendo let it happen.

So let's just say Zant does come back later, after having gone through a complicated change of character. It's in a new game, some kind of TP sequel of course, and he's ditched Ganondorf all together. He plots evil, Link destroys him, and the final confrontation reveals everything, as it always does. Or maybe there's another game, not directly related to TP, that has a main villain much like Zant was first made out to be, but isn't "ruined" at the end by someone else.

No, I don't think "introducing" Ganondorf either later or sooner would be better. In fact, you don't truly know Ganondorf is the main villain until after Zant's defeat. He's introduced later in the game, roughly half way, and with this, brings more plot elements. Is he going to play a big part here? Is he truly dead in the Twilight Realm? Could, perhaps behind Zant's mask, be Ganondorf? These questions and plot elements only work with the way Ganondorf was first introduced in that mysterious cut scene after Lakebed Temple. If you wanted to give us suspense that it brought, then that's fine. But I, and many others, do find suspense about one or multiple characters to be a big part in enjoying a game's plot. I also disagree with the "tacked on" point you make, but I've already addressed his utter importance on so many issues on my earlier post, and I don't wish to repeat myself.

You also mention a sequel in which Zant is a main villain. If I'm getting your point, you're assuming the events of TP occur, only with Zant as a main villain in this sequel and that he survived the events of TP. Yeah, I could like that, but it's off topic. I'm all for a TP sequel where Zant might somehow return, but this is seriously non-topical. What's in the future has nothing to do with the current discussion.

[Werewolfy]

No, I don't think "introducing" Ganondorf either later or sooner would be better. In fact, you don't truly know Ganondorf is the main villain until after Zant's defeat. He's introduced later in the game, roughly half way, and with this, brings more plot elements. Is he going to play a big part here? Is he truly dead in the Twilight Realm? Could, perhaps behind Zant's mask, be Ganondorf? These questions and plot elements only work with the way Ganondorf was first introduced in that mysterious cut scene after Lakebed Temple. If you wanted to give us suspense that it brought, then that's fine. But I, and many others, do find suspense about one or multiple characters to be a big part in enjoying a game's plot. I also disagree with the "tacked on" point you make, but I've already addressed his utter importance on so many issues on my earlier post, and I don't wish to repeat myself.
I had seriously forgotten about the cutscenes which display Ganondorf with the Mirror of Twilight. Your post reminded me of this. Okay, so now that I have a better handle on the situation, I can understand where you're coming from more. He did kinda feel tacked-on, though, in a sense. So we kinda knew he was in the game, but we weren't sure about his role. Unconciously we, or at least I, assume that he and Zant don't have much to do with each other. At least, not in the sense that Zant worshipped Ganondorf.

We do, however, have an idea that Ganondorf has something to do with the Mirror. What, we don't know yet, but the sages seem to dislike him. And we know Zant to be an usurper of sorts, from what Midna had been saying, who wanted to ultimately rule the Twilight Realm. So how do Zant and Ganondorf connect? Bigger than we could imagine, right?

Now, to me, Zant in the beginning seemed like a cool, independent kinda guy. He seemed to have power, motivation, and potential to be a good villain. However, we soon find out he's none of those things, when we find out that Zant worships Ganondorf. For me, this completely ruined his image, and in that sense, Ganondorf was "tacked-on" to Zant, if that makes sense. Nintendo threw him in the mix of Zant there, making him a worthless character for the most part, and truly pathetic when it came to power. He had none, and certainly none of his moves were impressive, at least to me.

So Ganondorf ruined Zant, in the sense that Zant would have been better off not woshiping anyone. He would have been cooler. In fact, if Ganondorf did have to be in TP, I wouldn't have minded seeing them be contrasting forces. What if they didn't like each other at all? One got in the other's way, making them hate each other. This would have made Zant out to be a lot cooler, in my opinion, and could have easily worked, if Nintendo chose to make it work. They don't necessarily have to go head-to-head, just bad-mouth each other.

This is also a rough idea, so try not to take it at face value, but rather, imagine a TP where Zant doesn't rely completely on Ganondorf.


You also mention a sequel in which Zant is a main villain. If I'm getting your point, you're assuming the events of TP occur, only with Zant as a main villain in this sequel and that he survived the events of TP. Yeah, I could like that, but it's off topic. I'm all for a TP sequel where Zant might somehow return, but this is seriously non-topical. What's in the future has nothing to do with the current discussion.
Another very rough idea I had. It is kinda off-topic, but I figured I might as well explain it, so that some of the things I said made sense. It doesn't have to be a direct sequel to TP, either. Or TP could have two direct sequels, one involving Ganondorf, the other involving Zant, thus further complicating the series. It might work, in the sense that OoT worked with the time-split.

[Clucluclu]

I relt like it hurt the story a bit, but it added four of the greatest final boss fights ever for me. Ganondorf belonged.

[Badwolf47]

Saddly, I cannot say... I personally don't know you all seem to know a lot about this stuff and well... I just don't know! it seemed like a mistake... but... he is one of the bad guys... so my answer is long and confusing!

[Josh]

Ganondorf is beginning to become a problem. He's adding to the list of what is dividing Zelda fans into two different groups. Some feel he's out grown his use, and that he's not really all that special anymore, and just becoming an overused villain. Then the others that feel he's still good, and we can make a lot more out of him in future games.

That's half of the problem to me. Some people think, great, Ganondorf is in it, that ruins this game. Okay. A little extreme. But it's almost to that point.

The other problem, is Zant. Zant was turning out to be the one of the greatest villains in the series ever, it seemed like he was the ultimate person. Later in the game, you see he was just a pawn of Ganondorf. Then Zant goes crazy so on and so forth. There's this group, that hates Ganondorf being in there, because he ruined Zant.

I guess it really just depends what group you're in. :\

[Shnappy]

Ganondorf is beginning to become a problem. He's adding to the list of what is dividing Zelda fans into two different groups. Some feel he's out grown his use, and that he's not really all that special anymore, and just becoming an overused villain. Then the others that feel he's still good, and we can make a lot more out of him in future games.

That's half of the problem to me. Some people think, great, Ganondorf is in it, that ruins this game. Okay. A little extreme. But it's almost to that point.

The other problem, is Zant. Zant was turning out to be the one of the greatest villains in the series ever, it seemed like he was the ultimate person. Later in the game, you see he was just a pawn of Ganondorf. Then Zant goes crazy so on and so forth. There's this group, that hates Ganondorf being in there, because he ruined Zant.

I guess it really just depends what group you're in. :\

And I'm in that "I hate Ganondorf being in there, because he ruined Zant" group. Dude, I was real disappointed. Sure, the final boss fights were pretty sweet in this game, but think about it if there was no Ganondorf, and it was just Zant. That would be the most epic fight ever. Even though Ganondorf ruined him, Zant is still pretty much my favorite Zelda villain ever. I love how he has this split personality, where he is so calm and sinister for most of the game, and then he explodes in the Palace of Twilight and becomes this crazy madman. He was the ultimate Zelda villain, and admittedly, I'm getting really tired of Ganondorf. Sure, he's the main villain of the series, but that doesn't mean we keep on having to bring him back. Can't he just die somewhere in the timeline (I don't pay attention to the timeline a lot, so don't try and debate his death and where it happens/has happened), and then we could have another villain take over for awhile? I think that that would be a great turn in Zelda games, as there are numerous villains in Zelda that I like more than Ganondorf.

[basement24]

I'm a bit intrigued with the people who say Zant was ruined by Ganondorf. I know everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I have a feeling that if Ganondorf wasn't included, the same people would be complaining that Zant was too shallow. Once you get to him, he really wouldn't have much to say other than "Haha, you got here, now let's fight!" followed by a fight and his defeat. Game over, no additional Hyrule Castle level and the like.

Now, I know it wouldn't have been as lame as what I described above, but really it would have been A) a shorter game and B) a different ending. There wouldn't have been any big reveals as such, other than what he looked like under that gnarly helmet. No real twists to speak of, or threat still to come. He would have been a more run-of-the-mill stock badguy who just wanted power, got power, used that power, and got killed for having it.

I suppose in the end that's what he was anyway with Ganon, but really, he would have been no less without him.

[Midna666]

Ganondorf is beginning to become a problem. He's adding to the list of what is dividing Zelda fans into two different groups. Some feel he's out grown his use, and that he's not really all that special anymore, and just becoming an overused villain. Then the others that feel he's still good, and we can make a lot more out of him in future games.

That's half of the problem to me. Some people think, great, Ganondorf is in it, that ruins this game. Okay. A little extreme. But it's almost to that point.

The other problem, is Zant. Zant was turning out to be the one of the greatest villains in the series ever, it seemed like he was the ultimate person. Later in the game, you see he was just a pawn of Ganondorf. Then Zant goes crazy so on and so forth. There's this group, that hates Ganondorf being in there, because he ruined Zant.

I guess it really just depends what group you're in. :\

You do make a good point about Ganondorf.
I also agree that he's starting to become overused.
I think that the reason that Nintendo is using Ganondorf a lot is because they don't how to create another villain.
The only other villains that really made an impact on the Zelda series are Majora and Vaati.
Other then those two, the Zelda series does not really have interesting villains.
And the ones that are interesting(like Majora)get killed off after one game(I'm surprised that Vaati ever survived the first game that he was in).

[Werewolfy]

Ganondorf is beginning to become a problem. He's adding to the list of what is dividing Zelda fans into two different groups. Some feel he's out grown his use, and that he's not really all that special anymore, and just becoming an overused villain. Then the others that feel he's still good, and we can make a lot more out of him in future games.

That's half of the problem to me. Some people think, great, Ganondorf is in it, that ruins this game. Okay. A little extreme. But it's almost to that point.

The other problem, is Zant. Zant was turning out to be the one of the greatest villains in the series ever, it seemed like he was the ultimate person. Later in the game, you see he was just a pawn of Ganondorf. Then Zant goes crazy so on and so forth. There's this group, that hates Ganondorf being in there, because he ruined Zant.

I guess it really just depends what group you're in. :\
I wouldn't say Ganondorf is "overused," though I know some people do indeed complain about that. The thing is, though, that he's only in roughly 50% of Zelda games. I wouldn't call that overused. If anything, he's underused, considering he's the main villain of the Zelda series. But I can't complain about that, since it gives players a broader range of villains to fight anyway. Now, I haven't played every Zelda game, sadly enough, but there is Vaati, Bellum, Dark Link, and probably other villains, not including Ganondorf. I personally like how Nintendo don't stick Ganondorf into every Zelda game, and think TP could have done a lot better.

Okay, so my opinion has changed a little, and this is what I now think: Ganondorf did belong in TP. But at the same time, he ruined Zant. I think there should have been a compromise somewhere in there. Maybe Zant and Ganondorf were working together temporarily to get something done. Maybe Zant and Ganondorf didn't even know each other. But the fact is that Zant being Ganondorf's pawn didn't work out so well for him, as a character. Maybe Zant wasn't even in TP, which would have been a lot harder to work around.


I'm a bit intrigued with the people who say Zant was ruined by Ganondorf. I know everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I have a feeling that if Ganondorf wasn't included, the same people would be complaining that Zant was too shallow. Once you get to him, he really wouldn't have much to say other than "Haha, you got here, now let's fight!" followed by a fight and his defeat. Game over, no additional Hyrule Castle level and the like.
Not necessarily. How do we know what Zant would have been like if he wasn't Ganondorf's pawn all along? He seemed very cool, very powerful, and shady in the beginning of the game. He was later revealed to be Ganondorf's pawn, which turned him out to be a whiny, over-dependent brat. He was revealed to be doing whatever his "God" wanted.

However, what if he wasn't? What if he was doing all this for his own gain, rather than Ganondorf's? My bet is that it would have changed his character, for better or for worse. He wouldn't seem as "shallow" I'd bet, considering that he'd be striving for something for himself, rather than for someone else. Not much I can say on this issue other than that, but we really don't have much on his character. Very little was revealed about him until the end.


Now, I know it wouldn't have been as lame as what I described above, but really it would have been A) a shorter game and B) a different ending. There wouldn't have been any big reveals as such, other than what he looked like under that gnarly helmet. No real twists to speak of, or threat still to come. He would have been a more run-of-the-mill stock badguy who just wanted power, got power, used that power, and got killed for having it.
It wouldn't have been too much of a shorter game. Especially if it was changed up. Now, I do also happen to agree that Ganondorf should have been in the game, just that Zant needed another role. Given this, it could have been a longer game, perhaps, but not necessarily, and the ending wouldn't have been too terribly different. Zant would have been, but not the actual ending. This is all supposing Link went against Zant first, then Ganondorf like he did in TP how it originally was, but that Zant wasn't Ganondorf's pawn.


I suppose in the end that's what he was anyway with Ganon, but really, he would have been no less without him.
Again I must say, not necessarily. Not much was revealed about Zant's character before the revelation, which would have changed drastically if he wasn't Ganondorf's pawn. Another thing to consider is that Nintendo pull all the strings, and they certainly would have made Zant a lot different if his relationship with Ganondorf changed.

[Niko Bellic 817]

Since a lot of TP's aspects are like OoT, then yes. Shiek, for example was in OoT which gave it that element of surprise. Same with Wind Waker involving Tetra.

TP also is the only 3-D zelda besides Majora's Mask where Zelda isn't in disguise. So it would make sense for them to make the player think that Zant is the main villain when it is Ganondorf yet again.

Also, if you get the master sword in a zelda game, then Ganon always appears in it. Zant wouldn't have made a good villain anyway.

Seeing the way he acted in the boss fight against him. Having Zant as the final boss would make the storyline of TP feel the same as in the other Zeldas. Zelda gets kidnapped, get items to reach the boss, kill the boss, the world is saved. It would be kind of pointless to have Zant as the final boss.

If he appears in the beginning of the game, you assume you fight him at the very end. The plot twist with Ganon being the final boss was very cool and is something that I would not want to be changed.

[basement24]

Again I must say, not necessarily. Not much was revealed about Zant's character before the revelation, which would have changed drastically if he wasn't Ganondorf's pawn. Another thing to consider is that Nintendo pull all the strings, and they certainly would have made Zant a lot different if his relationship with Ganondorf changed.

First I just want to say that was all really well thought out! :)

It's true, we didn't know much about him to begin with, but what I'm wondering is if the revelation wasn't about him being a pawn of Ganon, if you just remove that aspect all together, then he'd be very shallow.

There would have to be some kind of different clincher to his character at the end of the game to give him some kind of hook. If the game ended with him welcoming you to his palace, you fight him, he dies, then people would be left saying "Soo... that's it?"

In the end, I think most people who dislike Ganon's inclusion are willing to say that the removal of Ganon would have made Zant better, but then there's no offering to just how it would have worked. The simple removal without any addition would actually have made Zant shallow and ineffective. In the end he would have just been some kind of stereotypical villain.

So, the new question would have to be: If the Ganon aspect is removed, then what is put in place to make Zant not be a cliche creepy villain we know nothing about.

[Axle the Beast]

I'm afraid I have to say no.

When I first read about Twilight Princess, it seemed to me that Ganondorf was thrown in haphazardly. Then I actually played it, and it seemed alright until the end. Something was wrong. I couldn't figure out exactly what it was at the time, but something was just off with Ganondorf and the game's climax.

But I've been thinking about it, and I have a few points...

The game set up Zant as the villain. His story had a lot of buildup, including his assault on the world of light, him usurping power and transforming the Twili into Shadow Beasts, his relationship with Midna, etc. It was quite cool, and incredibly dramatic, and then it was all flushed down the toilet. Boom, Zant was a puppet and Ganondorf is the real evil. It was... weird and rushed. Not done very well at all. They could have pulled it off if they set up the story a little differently, but they didn't. It was especially weird, because it really felt to me that they intended Zant to be the villain, and then reworked the plot a little to fit Ganondorf in. Likely in an attempt to be more like Ocarina of Time. If they spent more time on it, it could have really worked, but it seems like they rushed it. (You know, in general, it seems like the game just needed more time.)

Then Ganondorf appeared. Despite him being mentioned a few times prior in the game, his inclusion was still more along the lines of a "final boss switch" in which the game randomly throws a new villain at you at the end of the game. It's typically a weak plot device.

But there was another thing. Ganondorf's inclusion wasn't just a downplay on Zant. All the game's drama and buildup was centered on Zant and Midna. Not Ganondorf. What this means is that when he did finally show up as the big bad-***, well, it was like "who?" Obviously it wasn't quite like that, as we all know who he is, but you get my point. Suddenly this new villain is thrown in. He's stated to be this big bad villain, worse than the guy you thought was the real villain, but in essence, he's just a shallow plot trick. Because there's no buildup. No stage setting. Nothing. Just "Oh, Zant wasn't the real villain. Go fight Ganon."

It sucks, because it makes both Zant and Ganondorf less that what they could have been, and in a way it's a disrespect to both characters.

They should have spent more time on it, or kept Zant as the main villain. Because, I'm serious. The Palace of Twilight was the games climax. In both plot and feel... to me at least. Hyrule Castle was more like... a bonus stage.

[Nepolink]

For me it didn't hurt Zant character... well in the beginning he was a very interesting someone, also my first thoughts was he would be the new villain of the Zelda series. After Midna told me that Zant's power was false i had already other thoughts. Also i didn't really like Zant that much in the beginning, since i miss Ganondorf in any Zelda game. Ganondorf is the TRUE villain of Hyrule and let it be. Well besides him we had Vaati, Majora, Onox, Veran and plenty others, i'll be happy they didn't put Ganondorf in every Zelda game, but i don't like to see always another villains comes in the games.

It was really suprising that Zant's power was just Ganondorf's, i don't think he ruined him. Zant has nothing to do in this game than play as Ganondorf's minions. But ALL the bosses in any Zelda games are just Ganondorf's minions. So it didn't hurt me that Zant was also one. Well he had a complete different story than all the normal bosses, that didn't make him a special one. One thing i have to say that Zant's battle was more epic than Ganondorf's, i liked the way he was in the boss rooms from some Dungeons.

I liked the way that ganondorf was revealed after Stallords battle. Normally Ganondorf shows up in the beginning of any Zelda game, so it was a real original idea to show him in the middle of the game. But i really feel for the ''Ganondorf hurt Zant'' people. I really wanted to see how he turned out if Ganondorf didn't use him. maybe he wasn't so crazy or just wacky. I really laughed at him anyway, i loved his priceless expressions, but really it didn't hurt me.

I was just happy to see Ganondorf back, his final battle was as usual epic, the best Ganondorf fight i have ever seen, specially the horse-back fight. It would be very nice if we had to shoot the Light Arrows instead of Zelda. And i wish the last battle was more difficult than waiting for Ganondorf's jump attack and pressing the A button repeatly. Ganondorf was real a part of this game, i didn't like this game if Zant was the true villain though, that's just my opinion. After Zant i really wanted to see more about Vaati or Majora, they were some interesting than Zant, specially Majora. I really wanted to know more about him/her, i'm sick of reading Fanfictions about Majora and Oni Link.

Ganondorf was a nice start for the first Wii game. He was really neccesary for me. Like every Zelda game. First we have to deal with Ganondorf after him we get a brand new villain. Actually i don't hope for a new villain in the next Zelda, i really want to see a older villain from the older Zelda games back.

[Werewolfy]

First I just want to say that was all really well thought out! :)

It's true, we didn't know much about him to begin with, but what I'm wondering is if the revelation wasn't about him being a pawn of Ganon, if you just remove that aspect all together, then he'd be very shallow.

There would have to be some kind of different clincher to his character at the end of the game to give him some kind of hook. If the game ended with him welcoming you to his palace, you fight him, he dies, then people would be left saying "Soo... that's it?"

In the end, I think most people who dislike Ganon's inclusion are willing to say that the removal of Ganon would have made Zant better, but then there's no offering to just how it would have worked. The simple removal without any addition would actually have made Zant shallow and ineffective. In the end he would have just been some kind of stereotypical villain.

So, the new question would have to be: If the Ganon aspect is removed, then what is put in place to make Zant not be a cliche creepy villain we know nothing about.
Yes, and these are all very good points. Not much was given away about Zant's character until that revelation, in which he turned out to be a whiny, pathetic brat. That being said, having Ganondorf taken out and having no remedy to Zant's situation, he would be really shallow, and a really bad villain. The feeling of there needing to be something more would override all other emotions about him, because he wouldn't be suited for the role. He'd be a solo bad guy who needs someone else to guide him.

Yet, again, if Ganondorf were taken out, or at the very least, his relationship with Zant changed, Zant's character would also have to change. Nintendo made him out to be powerful, shady, and evil, to say the least, throughout the game. He seemed like he would have been a very good and interesting bad guy to have thrown into the mix. Then he became psychotic. This is where Nintendo would have to change things. Rather than have him end up as that Zant, have him end up as he was made out to be in the first place: bad, powerful, driven by the need for more power. Of course, in the final encounter, more would have to be revealed about him, as is always the case, and this depends on what Nintendo want. But they could have changed him, and it could have been for the better, which would have added a lot to Zant, in my opinion, at least. Because, at the end, he really was "tacked-on" to Zant, which didn't work so well.


I'm afraid I have to say no.

When I first read about Twilight Princess, it seemed to me that Ganondorf was thrown in haphazardly. Then I actually played it, and it seemed alright until the end. Something was wrong. I couldn't figure out exactly what it was at the time, but something was just off with Ganondorf and the game's climax.

But I've been thinking about it, and I have a few points...

The game set up Zant as the villain. His story had a lot of buildup, including his assault on the world of light, him usurping power and transforming the Twili into Shadow Beasts, his relationship with Midna, etc. It was quite cool, and incredibly dramatic, and then it was all flushed down the toilet. Boom, Zant was a puppet and Ganondorf is the real evil. It was... weird and rushed. Not done very well at all. They could have pulled it off if they set up the story a little differently, but they didn't. It was especially weird, because it really felt to me that they intended Zant to be the villain, and then reworked the plot a little to fit Ganondorf in. Likely in an attempt to be more like Ocarina of Time. If they spent more time on it, it could have really worked, but it seems like they rushed it. (You know, in general, it seems like the game just needed more time.)

Then Ganondorf appeared. Despite him being mentioned a few times prior in the game, his inclusion was still more along the lines of a "final boss switch" in which the game randomly throws a new villain at you at the end of the game. It's typically a weak plot device.

But there was another thing. Ganondorf's inclusion wasn't just a downplay on Zant. All the game's drama and buildup was centered on Zant and Midna. Not Ganondorf. What this means is that when he did finally show up as the big bad-***, well, it was like "who?" Obviously it wasn't quite like that, as we all know who he is, but you get my point. Suddenly this new villain is thrown in. He's stated to be this big bad villain, worse than the guy you thought was the real villain, but in essence, he's just a shallow plot trick. Because there's no buildup. No stage setting. Nothing. Just "Oh, Zant wasn't the real villain. Go fight Ganon."

It sucks, because it makes both Zant and Ganondorf less that what they could have been, and in a way it's a disrespect to both characters.

They should have spent more time on it, or kept Zant as the main villain. Because, I'm serious. The Palace of Twilight was the games climax. In both plot and feel... to me at least. Hyrule Castle was more like... a bonus stage.

Yes, and this is exactly what I meant about Ganondorf being "tacked-on" to Zant. Nintendo did a good job of introducing what was thought to be a new villain. He seemed interesting and powerful, and had a lot of good villain potential. But then we find out that he's Ganondorf's minion, and it leaves something to be desired.

Again, I do think Ganondorf and Zant being in the same game could have worked a lot better if Zant wasn't Ganondorf's wimpy follower. Done right, it could have done wonders for the game. But it wasn't done right: it was done poorly, and really felt like Nintendo didn't actually care about Zant at all in the end. Rather, he was a filler character, used to introduce Ganondorf later in the game.

This is what I felt, at least.

[Midna666]

As I said before, I found Zant to be a boring character, until it was reveiled that he was just a puppet.
Once the connecting between Zant, and Ganondorf was made, his actions made more sense.

Before his connecting to Ganondorf was revelied, he seemed to be a boring power hungry character.

Also if Ganondorf was not in TP, then Zant could have not gotten his powers.

[Werewolfy]

As I said before, I found Zant to be a boring character, until it was reveiled that he was just a puppet.
Once the connecting between Zant, and Ganondorf was made, his actions made more sense.

Before his connecting to Ganondorf was revelied, he seemed to be a boring power hungry character.

Also if Ganondorf was not in TP, then Zant could have not gotten his powers.
Again, I say that not much was revealed about Zant's character until the final encounter. He seemed shady, mysterious, and powerful before he was made out to be Ganondorf's puppet, and not much beyond that was known. This is clearly the intention, which built drama for the final encounter, in which more was sure to be revealed.

Then he turned out to be even worse than I imagined, as he had no self-control at that point, no real drive for power, and was just made out to be pathetic. This was disappointing, and only made him a really bad character. If his relationship with Ganondorf were changed, however, I do believe he could have been a lot better. Zant would have (likely) changed a lot, for better or for worse, if Ganondorf were either taken out of the game or taken out of Zant's life. Then Zant, being a solo villain which is much more suiting for him, in my opinion, would be revealed to be something else.

So could have Zant gotten his own powers without Ganondorf? I see no reason for him not to! It was assumed he had done so before he was revealed to work for Ganondorf, so a simple change of the plot could have easily made it so. He would be a different person, therefore would have different capabilities. You also have to keep in mind that Nintendo pull all the strings, and they could have easily made all this so, without damaging any plot elements or characters, had they wanted to.

[Nepolink]

So could have Zant gotten his own powers without Ganondorf? I see no reason for him not to! It was assumed he had done so before he was revealed to work for Ganondorf, so a simple change of the plot could have easily made it so. He would be a different person, therefore would have different capabilities. You also have to keep in mind that Nintendo pull all the strings, and they could have easily made all this so, without damaging any plot elements or characters, had they wanted to.
It wasn't a real pain though. All the time you've seen Zant was with the Power from Ganondorf, and Midna told already that Zant's power was false. So something was shooting in my head about another villain. But i have to say Zant was quite interesting at first, maybe something like a blood thirsty Vampire or something. I think Zant will be even pathetic without Ganondorfs power, since i think that IS the real Zant at the end, and Zant told us already he was nothing until he found his ''God'', Ganondorf. he changed from nothing to a powerfull villain. Zant is made to be crazy, nothing disappointing about it, don't get me wrong Zant was really interesting but it's not something i can be really mad about.

But i think Zant can easily handle his own power. Remember that Midna also has some power, don't know it there's a difference between the normal Twili and the Twili ruler. I don't have enough experience about Twilight to reveal the real power out of Zant. I only think he was weak, just because of the story he told you at the end. Maybe he has some transformation power like Midna does, but cover the world into Twilight was out of his power.
It would also be interesting if Zant and Ganondorf were appart villains. I liked Zant's character at the end though. Unfortunately the Twili was good as a unknow force. Again, if Zant has his own power he would be better than his pathetic character at the end. But Zant has never got his own power, just because what he told to us at the end. Zant is foolish power hungry character jes, although i love his outfit and all.

Zant didn't show up on Hyrule if he got his own power i think, it was mostly like Ganondorf's order to cover Hyrule into Twilight and make a lot of other mess. Like changing Midna into a sort of Imp. He wanted to be King of Twilight, but he failed all the time because the lack of power or some other reasons. But if we have to look at the point that Ganondorf never showed up before until Zant told it, it hurts maybe a little bit, but it's not something i can call disappointment. Hmm, everyone has just his or her own opinion. For me it was pretty cool that Ganondorf was in the game, with a real new awesome outfit too.

[Gohma]

I agree that Ganondorf tends to be the final boss of too many LoZ games.
But look, in TP he HAD to be the villain.
The final fight against him is just so epic! =3

The problem with his TP appearance was that he was introduced as the main villain too late in the game.
When you think you saved the world by beating Zant, Ganon just come out of nowhere, saying that he was the real bad guy since the beggining...
It would have been ok if we knew a bit more about his past, etc...
That's what disappointed most players in my opinion.

[Alex_Da_Great]

Ganondorf was a big surprise to first-time TP players as they all thought that the main villain was Zant and then BOOF! They know about Ganondorf. It might of taken the eye off Zant but without Ganondorf in TP, the story wouldn't make much sense.

[Werewolfy]

It wasn't a real pain though. All the time you've seen Zant was with the Power from Ganondorf, and Midna told already that Zant's power was false. So something was shooting in my head about another villain. But i have to say Zant was quite interesting at first, maybe something like a blood thirsty Vampire or something. I think Zant will be even pathetic without Ganondorfs power, since i think that IS the real Zant at the end, and Zant told us already he was nothing until he found his ''God'', Ganondorf. he changed from nothing to a powerfull villain. Zant is made to be crazy, nothing disappointing about it, don't get me wrong Zant was really interesting but it's not something i can be really mad about.
There was hardly anything revealed about Zant's character until the final encounter, in which he turned out to be a dud. What I've been saying all along is that if Ganondorf and Zant's relationship were changed, Zant would have turned out to be different. Why? Because the situation would call for it. In fact, I think it would have been better this way, since Zant was made out to be this really bad, powerful guy who was plotting to take over the Twili's realm. It turned out to be Ganondorf all along, which ruined Zant's character for me, since he had such good potential in the beginning.


But i think Zant can easily handle his own power. Remember that Midna also has some power, don't know it there's a difference between the normal Twili and the Twili ruler. I don't have enough experience about Twilight to reveal the real power out of Zant. I only think he was weak, just because of the story he told you at the end. Maybe he has some transformation power like Midna does, but cover the world into Twilight was out of his power.
And again, his revelation at the end would have changed drastically if his and Ganondorf's relationship was different. Done right, Zant could have easily had his own power without relying on Ganondorf. It would have been more fitting for him, at least in my opinion, since he was made out to be so powerful from the start.


It would also be interesting if Zant and Ganondorf were appart villains. I liked Zant's character at the end though. Unfortunately the Twili was good as a unknow force. Again, if Zant has his own power he would be better than his pathetic character at the end. But Zant has never got his own power, just because what he told to us at the end. Zant is foolish power hungry character jes, although i love his outfit and all.
What you say here is true. Zant had a lot of villain potential until the bitter end. I didn't like how he turned out, since it was so unfitting for how he was made out to be. He could have been a lot better, had Nintendo played their cards right.


Zant didn't show up on Hyrule if he got his own power i think, it was mostly like Ganondorf's order to cover Hyrule into Twilight and make a lot of other mess. Like changing Midna into a sort of Imp. He wanted to be King of Twilight, but he failed all the time because the lack of power or some other reasons. But if we have to look at the point that Ganondorf never showed up before until Zant told it, it hurts maybe a little bit, but it's not something i can call disappointment. Hmm, everyone has just his or her own opinion. For me it was pretty cool that Ganondorf was in the game, with a real new awesome outfit too.
I think Ganondorf belonged in the game too, just that he was introduced poorly. He was tacked-on to Zant in the sense that Zant seemed to be his own villain until he revealed differently. I think Zant would have been a lot better working solo, rather than depending on Ganondorf. I think it could have worked having them both in the same game, only with a different relationship. Maybe they were partners for a time, or enemies, or something. I just don't think the whole Ganondorf being Zant's god thing worked.

But it does also depend on each's own opinion, like you said.

[Zemen]

Why wouldn't Ganondorf have been in it? Here is what I think about the subject.

Zant was an awesome villain. I honestly believe that Zant should have been a standalone villain in a Zelda game, but not this one. Ganon/dorf definitely stole the light from Zant. I thought Zant was awesome up until Ganon/dorf was mentioned. Right when Ganon/dorf was mentioned, I lost all respect for Zant. He was just a puppet. I think that Zant should have had his own title to be villain in but in this particular game we NEEDED Ganon/dorf.

Why did we need Ganon/dorf? Because the AT had it's version of what happened to Ganon/dorf after OoT. The CT needed the same story of what happened to Ganon/dorf after OoT.

OoT left Ganon/dorf alive on both sides of the timeline at the end, so we needed a game on both sides of the timeline that told us what happened to him after the respective endings. Yes, TP needed Ganon/dorf. Poor Zant, though.

[JammerJaw]

To be completely honest, I would've welcomed a new 3D Zelda villain. When Zant first appeared, it was like a breath of fresh air. He was a new type of Zelda villain, a stoic, menacing, mysterious and powerful creature. But when I fought him, I couldn't help but think that Ganondorf is probably the only sane 3D Zelda villain that is ever meant to be.

I was also a bit disappointed with the whole "Twilight taking over Hyrule" plot device; I felt they could've gone a lot farther with that.

[Twilight Prince]

It's hard for me to answer this one, if I say Yes, then it comes to the point that it's getting old, fighting the same person over, and over again. Even though he changes every game, it still gets tiring fighting him every game. However if I say No, then it comes out and is like I miss the old evil, Ganon was a great boss, and it seems to keep the game alive, now before I get called something. I want to make it a bit more clear, When I say I will miss him, I mean he like Link and Zelda have just become a normal thing in Zelda, removing him to me will change the game, but still at the same time be a good thing, so this just bugs me.

[Kybyrian]

I think that Ganondorf was a really good addition to Twilight Princess. It made you think that Zant was the evil one and then all of the sudden it twists and you find out Ganondorf is the one behind all of this evil plotting and Zant is simply his puppet, basically his card to control the Twilight Realm and use it to take over Hyrule. For first time players this can be a really fun plot twist in the game. It's kind of like Final Fantasy where things happen at almost every turn and you never really know what comes next.

[Link Master]

I think Ganondorf should be in this game because you only know it is Ganondorf when you defeat Zant so I think it gives you a surprise . Through the entire game a lot of people think Zant is the enemy.

[Linksmyfavorite]

It was totally bettter that Ganondorf was in the game because Ganon/Ganondorf has always been the main bad guy in the games, besides it makes Twilight Princess more epic.

[98pika]

I think it is a good idea to but ganondorf in that game :)

[Zora Link]

Nah, Ganondorf stole Zant's spotlight, creating an unnecessary plot twist. Also, they made him fat. :(

[zack125]

I'm afraid I have to say no.

When I first read about Twilight Princess, it seemed to me that Ganondorf was thrown in haphazardly. Then I actually played it, and it seemed alright until the end. Something was wrong. I couldn't figure out exactly what it was at the time, but something was just off with Ganondorf and the game's climax.

But I've been thinking about it, and I have a few points...

The game set up Zant as the villain. His story had a lot of buildup, including his assault on the world of light, him usurping power and transforming the Twili into Shadow Beasts, his relationship with Midna, etc. It was quite cool, and incredibly dramatic, and then it was all flushed down the toilet. Boom, Zant was a puppet and Ganondorf is the real evil. It was... weird and rushed. Not done very well at all. They could have pulled it off if they set up the story a little differently, but they didn't. It was especially weird, because it really felt to me that they intended Zant to be the villain, and then reworked the plot a little to fit Ganondorf in. Likely in an attempt to be more like Ocarina of Time. If they spent more time on it, it could have really worked, but it seems like they rushed it. (You know, in general, it seems like the game just needed more time.)

Then Ganondorf appeared. Despite him being mentioned a few times prior in the game, his inclusion was still more along the lines of a "final boss switch" in which the game randomly throws a new villain at you at the end of the game. It's typically a weak plot device.

But there was another thing. Ganondorf's inclusion wasn't just a downplay on Zant. All the game's drama and buildup was centered on Zant and Midna. Not Ganondorf. What this means is that when he did finally show up as the big bad-***, well, it was like "who?" Obviously it wasn't quite like that, as we all know who he is, but you get my point. Suddenly this new villain is thrown in. He's stated to be this big bad villain, worse than the guy you thought was the real villain, but in essence, he's just a shallow plot trick. Because there's no buildup. No stage setting. Nothing. Just "Oh, Zant wasn't the real villain. Go fight Ganon."

It sucks, because it makes both Zant and Ganondorf less that what they could have been, and in a way it's a disrespect to both characters.

They should have spent more time on it, or kept Zant as the main villain. Because, I'm serious. The Palace of Twilight was the games climax. In both plot and feel... to me at least. Hyrule Castle was more like... a bonus stage.

I just have to say that without Ganondorf, there wouldn't have a plot in TP.

[Ninten*]

Well I liked how the game did it where he was unknown until the middle or end of the game. It's just like in ALttP where you don't know about Ganon until you get to the Dark World.

[ChargewithSword]

Ganondorf to me was a rushed addition to Twilight Princess. It is not that he shouldn't or should've been included, it is that he was horribly inputed. He is rushed into the story after the near end of the game after you think Zant is the main villain. It was a plot twist that did not work in this case. We have been hanging out with Ganon as the main villain for almost ever console Zelda in existence (or being a major threat in AoL's case.) When we think we are going to get something new, Ganon just shows up.

Another reason this was badly prepared was because we were not shown this in the information about the game. From 2004-2006 we, the players, were alluded to Zant as the main villain. It wasn't until late in the period that we were shown who the big bad was, and that was a bad move. It gave players a bad taste in their mouths and it took them a while to get used to it.

Ganondorf could've been implemented better, but the point of him was to be a twist. He is the one thing that shows us that Twilight Princess was meant to be the game for new players. Nintendo wanted them to feel the big element of surprise, not us.

Maybe a few years later when Twilight Princess is played by new players they will be more forgiving than us because they didn't experience Ganon being in every game before. It won't seem super stale to them at least (unless they were to play the other Zeldas before TP.)

Well, there's my two cents- Wrath.

[ThatOneGriffin]

Zant could have been the main villain. Ganondorf's presence just feels forced.

[Bigelover88]

Yes, Ganondorf definitely deserves to be in the game. Ganon is the main Villain. He added an important part to the story. Ganondorf possesses the triforce of power. If ganondorf wasn't in the game it would never made any sense to me if Zant would have covered Hyrule Castle after Zelda healed Midna. Even though Zant was full of hatred he had no business with the world of light. His hatred was against Midna and his own world. Ganon controlled him to gain access to the world of light. And to be more honest after fighting against Zant who was all hyper and extremely insane it was good to fight against someone who was absolutely the opposite in his behavior than Zant. At least I experienced it this way. Everytime I fight Zant I get insane myself by his crazy moves and hyper screaming. So after defeating him it's more a relief to fight Ganondorf who doesn't scream and act that hysterious.

[Link-182]

Ganondorf's final fights were awesome! But I think Twilight Princess wasn't vey unique to begin with, especially since it was the same locations and music as OoT. So making Zant look all super awesome and wicked then making him a clown right before you fought him, hurt him as a villain a lot, and hurt the uniqueness of the game.
Either if they got rid of Ganondorf, or made Zant act tough the enitre game, it probably would have saved him. But Zant being a silly clown after being portrayed as a BA mother trucker the whole game really hurt him as a boss and the effect he had on me when I fought him.

I was actually scared to fight him until the scene right before I fought him, then I was like, oh, nevermind, he's silly, he'll be a piece of cake.

[Ralis]

The game would have much less of a point if Ganondorf had been taken out. It also adds a surprise to the story. At first, you think Zant is going to going to be the main enemy.

[predsfan88]

I don't think Ganon should have been in TP. I have read many articles on how it's getting really repetitive that he's in most of the games and he gets beat every time. Zant should have been the main bad guy and then they could have had a sequel if they wanted to and have Ganon and Zant team up against Link.

[DARK MASTER]

I like ganondorf in tp but he should not be the main bad guy dark link should

[zack125]

But I think Twilight Princess wasn't vey unique to begin with, especially since it was the same locations and music as OoT.

I also think that OoT had the same locations as ALttP.

[Almo SSBB]

ganondorf belonged, the story would have been a lot different without ganondorf, plus he added great fights n the end, i didnt like fighting zant a lot.

[ChargewithSword]

The thing I notice most people saying is that Ganondorf had a major impact on the story. You really could've replaced him with anything though. Zant could've gotten his power from some supreme item that bestowed great darkness to Zant. Zant could've been the final boss after you got the final piece of the mirror, then he pulls and Alttp Ganon and runs away to take over Zelda's body and give you a final boss. Or he could've just held Zelda captive in the Palace of Twilight. Ganondorf could've easily been written out of the game because, though he may have influenced events, you don't really feel his name being written in a lot of the cut scenes. You don't feel his presence, you only hear his name in three cut scenes until the end.

[Link V]

I felt like Ganondorf had been slapped on there at the last minute. A fail. it really put a damper on things.

[Jetter]

If Ganondorf wasn't it would be hard to create another ending. Zant might have not been destroyed or they're might have been a new villain to take Ganondorf's place. I'm neutral for this.

[VanitasXII]

I think adding Ganondorf to TP was pretty nice. It made Zant have the ability to make Twilight everywhere, driving the story on. Sure, the whole "The REAL enemy is the guy that was dead along time ago!!" arc of the story was kinda messed up at first, but going over the story made the game a lot more enjoyable. 'Sides, Dark Lord was the best boss battle.

[goronslikefire]

I don't think that it hurt the story at all, if anything it made the story. It helped us find out what happened after OOT and bridged the gap between OOT and TP and had one of the greatest plot twists of all time. It also showed us that Ganondorf would use people as pawns in his plans, which he's done before, but this time he used most of the Twili as his pawns, although I would like to see a prequel showing Zant.

[CUCCOMASTER]

yes he was a good boss and so was zant. the more bosses, the more of a plot the longer of a game

[Aelic7]

No, I don't think Ganondorf should have been in TP. It kind of ruined the storyline. So for the first half of the game, you think Zant is the primary antagonist, right? But then the game switches gears and tells you that Ganondorf is the bad guy. Right when you're about to fight Ganondorf, Midna says, "So you're...Ganondorf." Wait, what? We just met Ganondorf, and now we're about to fight him? in WW and OoT, Ganondorf appears throughout the entire storyline, and you can actually see that he's evil. But in TP, the only reason you know he's evil is because the Sages told you. I think it ruined the story and if Zant had been the final boss, the game would have been perfect.

[disturbed42]

Noooo. Ganondorf should NOT have been in this game. They just randomly threw him in there, and to me, it seriously messed up the story. The fight with Zant was lame because they made him go all psycho on us. However, had Ganondorf not been in the game, Zant would have been waaayy more epic as a boss and it would have tied in the whole Twilight story for me.

And, to be honest, I don't give a damn about the stupid timeline. Nintendo can go crazy and screw around with it all they want, and I wouldn't care. The timeline just doesn't matter to me. At all. You can still have awesome games without trying to put them together (and even when you think you have a good timeline going, you learn something new and it just screws everything up anyways!)

Ganondorf hurt Twilight Princess, in my personal opinion. Yes, it brought out the idea of deception and desperation for power, but that was it. Nothing else came about from Ganondorf randomly finding his way in the game, so he shouldn't have even been there in the first place. Zant was a total beast of a villain, but then Nintendo just ruined his power by making him go crazy and deciding to replace him with the repititive enemy of Link. *Sigh* And it really pissed me off too. Maybe if Ganon had been mentioned once or twice earlier in the game, I wouldn't have been so mad, but there was no way to make it fit early on, so why would he fit later in the story? Oh yeah, that's right, he doesn't! Ganon was a big mistake in TP and it just made the game seem even more stale than it already was. Plus the boss battle with Ganon was lame (yes, it was interesting when he possessed Zelda, but the style of fighting was something that we had already seen before!)

So, in short, I would give my answer as a big fat NO!

[PhantomTriforce]

Yes, I think he should be there. It gave an epic feel to fight the guy who is in charge of the main villain, and the "God" of evil.

[SavageWizzrobe]

I don't like seeing Ganondorf in the game. Sure, his fights are great, but he seems like he was just lazily thrown in, and the story suffers because of that. Ganondorf is also really stale in TP, unlike Zant. It would've been much better to fight Zant as the final boss.

[Goro-Link]

It seems that a lot of people felt that Ganondorf should not have been in Twilight Princess.
They feel that it hurt Zant's character.

I personally think that Ganondorf added more to the story.
And I think that it added more depth to Zant.
I liked how when you got down to you saw that Zant was just a childlike person who thought that he was better then he really was.

Two things.

1. Ganondorf saved the game. Zant was a lost cause as soon as he took off Mr.helm. Which is a shame really. I liked him until then.

2. Zant didn't need elaboration. he was cooler as a cool guy with a dark helmet. if they had taken the background story on zant, and the stupid warping thing out of his battle (EDIT: i loved the sword part), then we'd have a perfect game.

but those are just my opinions. feel free to ridicule me.