Did the Style Remove Some of the Mood?

[basement24]

I'll admit it, sometimes I get creeped out by moments in Zelda. Yes, I'm 28 years old, but sometimes there's moments that will make me look over my shoulder as I'm playing.

Back when TWW was released, and I was playing it through for the first time, I found this to happen less. I don't think there's any less frightening creatures, or creepy locales than any other Zelda game though. What I'm wondering is, did the cel-shaded cartoon style remove a bit of the fear and dark mood of some of the locations?

For example, places like the Bottom of the Well in OoT, or the Arbiter's Grounds in TP are really quite creepy. Is it because they are more detailed and realistic?

Also, Redeads make an appearance in a few titles. In TWW though, Link's reaction to them shrieking is almost one that you'd find in a Warner Brothers cartoon. It's more slapstick. Because of this, does it relieve a bit of the tension of an otherwise frightening scene? Redeads in OoT are downright frightening to me, but the more vicious attack in TWW that they bring on seemed less frightening.

So, is this due to the style? Do you find that TWW is less frightening due to the graphics and general tone?

[Kitsu]

Yeah, I'd definitely say that it was less 'creepy' than parts of Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, and of course Majora's Mask.

However, I wouldn't say this relies entirely on the graphical aspect. Whilst the cel-shading was undoubtedly contributory to the lighter mood, I'd say that the atmosphere of the game overall was a tad 'happier', for lack of a better word, than the aforementioned games.

As you said, the expressions and reactions and such were a lot more slapstick than the other titles, which definitely sets the tone for a more comical and lighter game. And the graphics seemed to aid this.
By the same token, I don't think it was the cel-shading altogether that removed some of the mood, but more the colour palette (much brighter than Twilight Princess et al) and the overall way things were presented.

The way 'mosters', redeads and what not were designed and portrayed seemed to be less realistic and seemed to lack that 'chilling' factor that they had in Ocarina of Time.
I'd say it's more or less a combination of the tone that was set by the design and presentation of the game in general, as well as the cel-shading.

[arkvoodle]

Yes, I agree that The Wind Waker was less creepy than other Zelda titles, The cartoonish design removed most of the creepiness.

In Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time, locations and enemies where much more detailed, E.g. The Re-dead, In OoT and TP, it was much more realistic and detailed, it looked repulsive and freakish, unlike in Wind Waker, where the Re-dead looked cartoonish, and posed no creepy factor.

The emotions and expressions, as previously stated, where more slapstick which makes the game comical and more appealing to younger audiences.

In conclusion, I belive that the Cel-shaded style of WW removed most aspects of creepyness from the Game.

[Len]

none of the monsters/enemies/enviorments did not give "SCARE" feelings "sigh" (away from the original feeling but... nice game!)

[Immortal_One]

I think the style did take away from the sometimes ominous classic Zelda games, but I think that was the intent. The game was obviously aimed to a younger demographic, but it was something that everyone could enjoy. I liked the style of it, and I liked the fact that it wasn't as creepy at times as a few other Zelda games were. The parts that were any bit creepy turned out to be comical, actually. The ReDeads and Red/Blue/White/Green Bubbles were your classic bumbling villian, rather than in other Zelda titles where they made you jump out of your seat. The fact that the game steered away from creepy parts is what made it was supposed to be, a fun Zelda game for all ages.

[Josh]

Of course it did. Probably for a few reasons. Was there anything really that bad that it would make you scared? The only thing I ever had a problem with was the ReDead's, and that's only because they jumped on you.....and did things. But, going from a complete graphics aspect, yes. I think it was made to be a fun game, aside from all the other ones, with big booms and clouds of smoke whenever you set off a bomb, or Link's priceless expressions, you couldn't possibly have been scared at all in that game, or any game with it.

[Master Kokiri 9]

While it was generally less scary the redeads in the game scare the crap out of me more than any redead from any other game. but it retained most of the mood that it would have if it had oot or tp like graphics.

[Nepolink]

Agreed, WW is not creepy because of the cell-shading. OOT, MM and TP have realistic graphics, in this case realistic textures looks more creepy then something cartoonish. Also in the beginning i didn't like this styl, now it's my fav. xD

But the redeads in WW looks scary enough, the enviorments are not creepy.

[El Bagu]

I don´t think it did remove anything regarding mood. The most exciting things in Zeldas are normally the dungeons and I felt they were as exciting in Wind Waker as in any other Zelda. My opinion is not mainstream this time but it´s how I feel about things :)

(Mood is mostly about music/tunes if you ask me......)

[Durion]

I would have to say yes, I do think that the style of Wind Waker doesw take out the mood for me...Don't get me wrong, I know Wind Waker is a great game but I am a person who likes the darker games, Hence the reason I love Zant and TP overall along with MM, Even dark games from other series usually are my favourite inside of that specific series.

Although this does add some mood to Zelda so not much is lost really, It does allow the younger audience to interact (if that is the word I am looking for) with the game easily.

[Rheks]

I would say it wasn't creepy at all. I think the graphics take a big role in it as well.
Though to be honest even if the graphics were different in TWW, there isn't many creepy parts at all. The only thing that was slightly creepy were the Zombies and those hands, they'd only make me feel anxious because they're sort of difficult to kill.
I didn't care if it wasn't creepy, the game itself was great. It didn't remove any of the "mood" just because it didn't have any creepy parts. I liked it for different reasons, I don't say to people, oh I like TP because of that creepy area, Arbiter's Ground.

[Waker of winds]

Yes, OoT and MM had a creepier feeling, something that I could not sense in WW, maybe because I'm amused that it's possible to sense such feelings in those virtual puppets. But there is something that I do feel in it WW. I tend to feel very lonely and solitary when I'm sailing.

When night falls, I always have this feeling that something bad will hapen. I feel afraid and when it rains the feeling is even worse. I never felt that way in OoT or in MM, so, no. I think that some things were taken, and others were added in WW.

[Bob Majinki]

In my opinion, no. I credit Wind Waker with having the most emotional scenes of any Zelda game, personally. While it's true that it didn't arouse fear, the game did succeed with many other emotions, notably sadness and depression, especially with your grandmother. If you are looking for fear though, I still think the Dead Hands in Ocarina of Time are incredibly creepy, and don't get me started on Majora's Mask.

[Zarom]

In my opinion, no. I credit Wind Waker with having the most emotional scenes of any Zelda game, personally. While it's true that it didn't arouse fear, the game did succeed with many other emotions, notably sadness and depression, especially with your grandmother. If you are looking for fear though, I still think the Dead Hands in Ocarina of Time are incredibly creepy, and don't get me started on Majora's Mask.


I definitely agree with that. And in MM, the whole world of Ikana was creepy, that was the main theme after all. Like the graveyard, the well and the shadow temple in OOT. And there are lots of people who don't like those: :wallmaster:

[Chrono]

At first I wasn't fond of it at all, too cartoony for Zelda. But it did eventually grow on me and I realized that the style gave it more of a retro feel than any of the 3D Zelda games.

[Axle the Beast]

I did like the style a lot, but I suppose the game subtracted from the creepy aspects that the series has always had.

I wouldn't lend it quite as much to the style alone, but rather to the execution of the style. As you said, what made the ReDeads less scary was primarily Link's reaction. If they cut that out and made the situation more tense, it would be a different story I think.

On a side not, I've always felt the Wind Waker variation of the ReDead is by far the most terrifying, if you factor in their appearance, design and behavior alone.

[Link Master]

Yes this is true because it was shooting for the younger ages and also a lot of people probably said some parts in the games were scary. To me when I was younger I was scared of Majora's Mask. In a way they made Wind Waker a little scary for things like dark places with redeads that you can not see. Wind Waker was one of the less scary games and is my favorite Zelda game.

[Hanyou]

Back when TWW was released, and I was playing it through for the first time, I found this to happen less. I don't think there's any less frightening creatures, or creepy locales than any other Zelda game though. What I'm wondering is, did the cel-shaded cartoon style remove a bit of the fear and dark mood of some of the locations?

I agree with you; it certainly happened less in The Wind Waker. However, the game wasn't defying convention, but instead simply crafting a unique identity for itself. Each Zelda game in succession had done this. Arguably, Link's Awakening was less creepy in a lot of ways than The Wind Waker, due to its even more lighthearted nature. But it's hard to establish any sort of continuous "mood" for Zelda, expect a consistently adventurous tone that could be called childlike. The Wind Waker has that.


For example, places like the Bottom of the Well in OoT, or the Arbiter's Grounds in TP are really quite creepy. Is it because they are more detailed and realistic?

I found the design of Twilight Princess, with its constant shades of brown, low-key music, and vague fogginess, to be not creepy but boring. In fact, there were several moments in The Wind Waker that creeped me out more, such as the appearance of the ReDeads. Nothing quite frightened me in either game the way moments of Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask did, but The Wind Waker actually boasted character, in part due to its style.


Also, Redeads make an appearance in a few titles. In TWW though, Link's reaction to them shrieking is almost one that you'd find in a Warner Brothers cartoon. It's more slapstick. Because of this, does it relieve a bit of the tension of an otherwise frightening scene? Redeads in OoT are downright frightening to me, but the more vicious attack in TWW that they bring on seemed less frightening.

That's one of the things that's actually a staple of the Zelda series. Again, look at A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening. In A Link to the Past, enemies run in place as they hover over pits. In Link's Awakening, they're cast in a chibi enemy style--and the bosses often act like spoiled children.

But again, those games don't feel exactly like The Wind Waker. And Link's reaction hardly makes the encounters with ReDeads humorous--immersed as I was in the game, I was able to take his reactions and expressions seriously in what were for him moments of terror.


So, is this due to the style? Do you find that TWW is less frightening due to the graphics and general tone?

Less frightening than what? Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask? Yes, I do. But I find Ocarina itself to be the most atmospheric Zelda title of them all, so that's a difficult comparison--and I wouldn't sacrifice The Wind Waker's adventurous atmosphere just so I could have a few scares. Even assuming it wouldn't require a sacrifice, I didn't miss those moments, like the Bottom of the Well.

And Twilight Princess didn't help me relive them. Not at all.

Also, I wonder why so many people found Ocarina of Time to be in any way "realistic." In my view, it had as much of a style (an anime one) as The Wind Waker, and was the better for it. By comparison, its textures might have been a bit more detailed and three-dimensional, and the environments were probably more believable (which I appreciate), but none of the characters looked more believable.

[quillmert]

Also, I wonder why so many people found Ocarina of Time to be in any way "realistic." In my view, it had as much of a style (an anime one) as The Wind Waker, and was the better for it. By comparison, its textures might have been a bit more detailed and three-dimensional, and the environments were probably more believable (which I appreciate), but none of the characters looked more believable.
However, you're forgetting the time setting. OoT came out when 3-D was the cutting edge of video game realism, and although it's certainly not the case anymore, I'm still blown away by nostalgia everytime I enter Hyrule Field. Not that it looks realistic anymore, but I always remember seeing it as a seven year old child and being blown away by the "realism".

People can remember it as looking realistic back when they first played it, but wind waker is an entirely different story. It has a completely different style (cel-shading definitely does make it look more cartoony than OoT) and not only that, but from a realistic standpoint, it was almost a step backwards graphically. It was smoother and looked amazing, but cel shading stripped away any remnants of realism that OoT and MM had begun to cultivate. Taken in context, it's understandable why people look at OoT to be more "realistic" than WW, I look at it the same way myself.

[Hanyou]

However, you're forgetting the time setting. OoT came out when 3-D was the cutting edge of video game realism, and although it's certainly not the case anymore, I'm still blown away by nostalgia everytime I enter Hyrule Field. Not that it looks realistic anymore, but I always remember seeing it as a seven year old child and being blown away by the "realism".

Maybe my experience is distinct, but I never thought Ocarina looked realistic. I will give it this much; there is probably more realism in its graphical design than that of TWW (though no less stylization), due to the way the environments are structured and textured; but it has always, always looked highly stylized in so many ways. That the stylization was perhaps less pervasive in OoT than in TWW does not mean that OoT was "realistic." I would call a game like, say, Turok or Goldeneye (both also for the N64, and both released before Ocarina of Time) or even Resident Evil or Final Fantasy VIII realistic because they aimed for--and, given when they were released, achieved--realism. Compare either one to the Nintendo releases, like Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time, and I think it becomes evident that both are highly stylized.

There are unrealistic elements in both games by design.


People can remember it as looking realistic back when they first played it, but wind waker is an entirely different story. It has a completely different style (cel-shading definitely does make it look more cartoony than OoT) and not only that, but from a realistic standpoint, it was almost a step backwards graphically. It was smoother and looked amazing, but cel shading stripped away any remnants of realism that OoT and MM had begun to cultivate. Taken in context, it's understandable why people look at OoT to be more "realistic" than WW, I look at it the same way myself.

Again, I concede that The Wind Waker is more obviously stylized than Ocarina when it comes to the environments. I would not call it a step backwards because it is less "realistic" (even supposing that it is), although I do think more could have been done with the cel-shading (see Okami).

It may have been unreasonable of me to say Ocarina of Time was no more realistic than The Wind Waker, but I still think the realism was marginal at best. Again, compare Ocarina to its contemporaries on the major platforms and it no longer looks "realistic." It stands with Banjo-Kazooie, Mario 64, Crash Bandicoot, and other games that may have had some convincing environments, but were not realistic. Ocarina just took itself a bit more seriously than those games, and it showed up in the graphics--but a realistic style would look patently different.

[Keyshe]

While the cell shaded style is more disarming and innocent then the other 3D games. I think most of it was the choice of the layout of the dungeons, and music, and execution of the game that set the mood. OOT had more of a horror feel in some of the dungeons, and things were presented more dire. But in WW it was more adventurous and mystery, it wasn't just the cell shaded style. Like when when you go to save Tetra in the forest, the music isn't really setting things up to be that intense or creepy. Just a cartoony-mystery feel.

Though I find the cartoony Redeads more creepy and ominous then the OOT or TP's. While they had the realistic look-ish. The execution of the animation and red eyes and scream, really startled and freaked me out. If done right, WW could have been really creepy and dark even with the cartoony art style. To me WW was suppose to be an adventurous game like the old classics. Not a epic dark and dramatic game like TP.

[Petman1325]

I honestly think while it took away some of the mood, it also added on to the mood.

When you really think about it, it actually made it express more emotion than Twilight Princess due to the ability to easily change emotions by having the faces "cartoonified". There's just that charm that one can feel from this game and the art style later on in the game. It can still tell a serious story with a silly face. It is just that the style added more instances of comic relief. I mean, I don't want a game that is serious nearly 24/7 like Twilight Princess. Even OoT had some humorous scenes in it's dark art style, as with MM.

Now, it doesn't matter upon which paper the story is written on, but how the penmanship and the story is told. Thus why WW was able to have a dark plot while maintaining a good cartoony look. I mean, the dark style reflected in the Earth-Temple was actually well done. The Re-Deads looked a bit creepy with their over-exaggerated things, like the eyes, bony body, and massive loop earrings. Not every game has to be dark, like some have said, in order to have a great story. Some games come along fine such as A Link to the Past (Well, I didn't perceive it as dark) and Link's Awakening, in which the story unfolds, yet not a lot of death is involved.

So, yeah, it removed some of the mood, but it rather replaced it with much more interesting moods such as creepy (not frightening-to-small-children creepy), happiness (something I didn't see much of in TP), etc.

[Y2K3]

I've never thought of Zelda as being all that 'creepy' before, so to me, there was nothing to remove with the implimenting of the cel-shaded graphics. Sure, the game was more happy-go-lucky, but I realy enjoyed that.
And like Pet (and maybe a few others) had said, it rather added to the mood when it comes to the emotions. Wind Waker actually got me 'caring' about the characters. Usually I'm more 'meh. whatever happens happens', but here, for example, I actually felt the grandmther grieve.

Perhaps that's just another reason why I like this game so much.

[Sparky]

Whilst I did feel it took away some of the creepiness factor, I don't think this was entirely intended in the long run.

To me, TWW wasn't as creepy because I didn't feel as alone. In OOT and MM I felt that even though I had a fairy companion, I was somewhat alone in the world, I've never felt as alone in a game as I have during the Adult section of OOT. Same in TP, you were around a whole lot of people, but as most of them didn't know you were the hero, or why you were the hero, you were still alone in a sense.

However, in TWW, it didn't feel like I was alone. It felt like they were people I was fighting for, for a reason more urgent than just the greater good. A good deal of people knew I was the hero and offered their support in their own special away. Therefore without the sense of aloneness, I felt less creeped out in general.

Tis my opinion anyways.

[Midna666]

I don't think that the style hurt the mood of the game at all. In fact I think that it bought more attention to the games mood.
In my opinion Wind Waker has a serious story, the style seemed(for me any way)to bring more attention to the games storyline, because you normally would not think that a game with graphics like WW would have a serious story too it.

[Hero0fTimeLink]

Yea it does. I've never been a big fan of the cartoon look of the zelda games even though i still some-what like them.Although the redeads are not frightening they scare the crap out of me with there scream!But other then that the enemys arent scary at all.But i do wish that Nintendo would stop making alot of these cartoon zelda's we already have like 4 of them now we're getting a 5th!

[Rensch]

It wasn't quite as creepy as some parts of the more realistic ones. It still was one of the most epic Zelda games though.

[Phlegm]

I think it actually increased my mood during the game! I always wanted to explore new places to see what they look like in a cell-shaded style. I loved it!

[Nye Pendragon]

I'm very fond the WW's style. :>

It's cartoony and childish, yes, but it's colorful, hilarious and takes away that, "Holy crap this is scary! D:" mood while playing. I feel that the cel-shaded graphics added a lot of 'ZING!' to The Wind Waker, and I wonder if I would love it as much if it were a more realistic style and not full of silly emotions and slapstick humor. But I agree, the cartoon-ish style took away from the 'moody' aspects of the game, but I'm not complaining. I believe this game was /meant/ to look lighthearted and childlike; just look at the character designs! Everything is stylized in a very colorful, light tone, and I believe that's what Nintendo was aiming for: a story with a childlike tone to it, to actually lighten a suprisingly dark story. It looks like a very cheerful and lighthearted game, but there is a dark, sad story to it... that didn't make any sense. XD;

But that's why I think it has this 'cartoon' style... to take away the dark mood and give a more whimsical appeal.

[ChargewithSword]

The style subtracted from some of the creepier aspects of the game but one thing I say is that it couldn't have if it was done right. Wind Waker has a cartoony style that could easily be deformed into something much more frightening. Take the redeads for example:

http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/3/31/Redeadww.gif

Given the proper lighting and stylization you could probably get a frightening atmosphere with the art style. The problem is that a lot of the enemies are too bubbly to be considered frightening. However if you got a different artist (say the TP one) working with cel shades, then you can push the bounties on imagination. I once remember seeing a Majora's Mask art piece (Deku Link) being transfered to cel-shade and the only difference was that his colors were bolder. He still had the overall darkness of his older style.

[Epona]

I completely agree about the style and mood. When I played Wind Waker recently, no matter how creepy the area was or dark or sad, it never really affected me the same as Ocarina of Time or Twilight Princess. Those two, especially Twilight Princess, always give me a dark creepy feeling when I play them, because of the graphics.