Hayzer's Timeline

[Hayzer]

I haven't done massive research, but I've done enough to compose what I believe is a decent timeline. Note: I don't want to hear any of the debates between LoZ/AoL, and ALttP. I already know both sides of the arguments, and I don't want to hear any more of it. I've got a headache from it.

...../--ST--TWW/PH
OoT
.....\--MM--OoS/OoA--TP--ZXV--LoZ/AoL--ALttP/LA--FSA--TMC

Reasoning for OoT:
--Obvious. Prequel to All Zeldas

Reasoning for ST thru PH:
--ST: We're still in Hyrule (Hyrule Castle can be seen in one of the screenshots). Hyrule was flooded in the BS of TWW. This game could be a prequel.
--TWW: The BS for this game describes only one hero, the Hero of Time, which echoes back to OoT
--PH: Sequel to TWW.

Reasoning for MM thru TMC:
--OoX: Sequels to each other, plus, it seems like they could be part of the same Link from MM's journey through other dimensions.
--TP: Seems like another fitting sequel to OoT, plus taking into consideration the enigma that is Hero's Shade, it could possibly be this Link's anscestor and/or father.
--ZXV: Placed here out of desire. I'm hoping that this new Zelda game (also called Zelda Wii) is a sequel to TP.
--LoZ/AoL thru ALttP: Don't care right now. Too much headache.
--FSA thru TMC: Seem like fitting sequels to the other. They both mention the Piccori sword, and both have Vaati within them. Plus they're the most recent of the main Zelda timeline, which is why they are placed at the end.

Fault me on anything other than the first three games.

[MrMosley]

Note: I don't want to hear any of the debates between LoZ/AoL, and ALttP. I already know both sides of the arguments, and I don't want to hear any more of it. I've got a headache from it.

All aspects of your timeline will be argued at some point. Yes there has been much discussion over this in another thread, but I have to mention all parts of your timeline when criticizing it. I'll not go into detail on the subject, just say that ALttP is set before LoZ/AoL

Aonuma stated that TP and WW were parallel on the Adult and Child Timelines. It would absolutely HAVE to look like this where the split is to even begin to be correct:

...../--WW
OoT
.....\MM--TP


Reasoning for ST thru PH:
--ST: We're still in Hyrule (Hyrule Castle can be seen in one of the screenshots). Hyrule was flooded in the BS of TWW. This game could be a prequel.

People keep saying this but it is impossible. Nintendo reps have already said this game takes place 100 years after PH. Nothing happened between OoT and WW. Just can't be a prequel.


--OoX: Sequels to each other, plus, it seems like they could be part of the same Link from MM's journey through other dimensions.

Not correct in the place you have it. On the Child Timeline, Ganon was never defeated. How could he be dead after MM if Link never actually killed him? The Oracle series would have to come after a time when Ganon died and was permanently in his pig form. When you break the series down and look at all the reasoning, this can only go after a few titles: ALttP, LA (which is my theory), or AoL.

Also, Zelda introduces herself in OoX. Can't be the same Link from MM because he already knows Zelda.


--FSA thru TMC: Seem like fitting sequels to the other. They both mention the Piccori sword, and both have Vaati within them. Plus they're the most recent of the main Zelda timeline, which is why they are placed at the end.

You left FS out of there. Also, another thing that is wrong about this theory is that even though all of the games address certain similar things, that doesn't mean that they have to come together on the timeline. In fact, FSA mentions many, many things, especially important information about Ganondorf becoming Ganon, that puts it directly behind ALttP on the timeline, as a distant sequel. That's another reason ALttP would come way before LoZ, because it tells how he became Ganon, and FSA tells it very shortly after it happened.


Reasoning for OoT:
--Obvious. Prequel to All Zeldas

Not believed to be by many anymore. MC is believed to be the oldest Zelda game. It makes no reference to Ganon or Ganondorf at all. People also use that stupid "hat thing", which isnt a very good excuse so I won't use it. The main important thing is that the game never mentions Ganon or Ganondorf. The reason it can't come in the New Hyrule that Spirit Tracks will be set in is because it is the first of the Four Swords games (we see the creation of the Four Sword in it). Remember how I said that FSA is an obvious distant prequel to ALttP? That means that FS and MC must be somewhere behind. FS is believed by many to be a direct prequel to FSA, while MC is believed to be a distant one. The only place that it makes sense to be then is before OoT.

[Erimgard]

In the beginning of the Oracle games, the Triforce is complete and resting in Hyrule Castle...how does that work after MM?

Then how does the Triforce end up all split up again for TP?

MC can't be after FSA...MC is a prequel to FSA.

[Hayzer]

Reworked:

............../--TWW/PH--ST
TMC--OoT
..............\--MM--TP--ZXV--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA--ALttP/LA--FSA

But...where would FS go. I didn't even know that that one was canon. I just thought it was a multiplayer add-on...

Btw, anyone know where I could play OoX online, if possible?

[MrMosley]

Reworked:

............../--TWW/PH--ST
TMC--OoT
..............\--MM--TP--ZXV--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA--ALttP/LA--FSA

All is well except for FSA still. Again, it details the story of Ganon going to the pyramid to obtain the Trident of Power. You fight Ganon at the end of FSA, and then when we come to ALttP, we see Ganon there with his Trident. FSA is a distant prequel to ALttP. Also, you have to take into consideration that FSA talks about Ganondorf as a man, meaning that he still was in the same form he assumed during OoT through TP. Apparently, he would have survived his "death" at the end of TP. At least that's my theory.


But...where would FS go. I didn't even know that that one was canon. I just thought it was a multiplayer add-on...

It is basically just a multiplayer add-on, but it is canon also. I know, it sucks, cause I never got the chance to play it, but ah well. FS would come before FSA, either as a direct or distant prequel. Some people put it as a direct sequel to MC, some put is as the prequel to FSA. I like to put it as the prequel to FSA because the intro to FSA talks about all the stories of the three games. It refers to the hero who sealed Vaati first as just a hero. This is obviously the Link from MC. But, it actually calls the second one to seal Vaati, Link. It gives him an identity, which is to relate him to a commonly known person. That person would obviously be the Link that you play as in FSA. That's why they didn't just refer to him as another hero, that's why I put FS as a direct prequel.


Btw, anyone know where I could play OoX online, if possible?

If you are requesting emulation info, don't. I don't mean to sound harsh or offensive or whatever, but emulators and roms are illegal if you don't own the actual copy of the game. If you want emulators or roms, you'll have to search around for them, but no one will be able to help you here.

[Erimgard]

All is well except for FSA still. Again, it details the story of Ganon going to the pyramid to obtain the Trident of Power. You fight Ganon at the end of FSA, and then when we come to ALttP, we see Ganon there with his Trident. FSA is a distant prequel to ALttP. Also, you have to take into consideration that FSA talks about Ganondorf as a man, meaning that he still was in the same form he assumed during OoT through TP. Apparently, he would have survived his "death" at the end of TP. At least that's my theory.

Well actually, if the Trident is the only thing that you believe connects FSA to aLttP as a prequel, then his timeline works.

In OoX, when Ganon is brought back from the dead, Twinrova summon the Trident as well. So he has it in OoX, and dies.

Then he comes back in aLttP, takes the Trident, blah blah blah. Dies.

FSA rolls around, and he's reincarnated, and claims the Trident again, becoming Ganon.

It requires one more resurrection/reincarnation than the other way around, but the Trident is fairly consistent. Now if we take into account Ganon's titles, then this timeline becomes questionable.

In OoX, he's known as the Great Demon King throughout the game. When he's resurrected, he announces that he has become The Demon King of Darkness.

In FSA, everyone thinks Vaati is the [Demon] King of Darkness, and no one suspects Ganon. However, the Trident specifically says that whoever picks it up will turn into the King of Darkness, and Ganon does, and thus becomes it. It's not till near the end of the game that the people of Hyrule realize Ganon's the King of Darkness.

Shift to aLttP, and he is again the [Demon] King of Darkness. This time, it's known from the start though.

So if you go with a progression of OoX-FSA-aLttP (only including trident games, I know there has to be games in between) you get:

Ganon, the Great Demon King, is transformed into the Demon King of Darkness by the power of a dark ritual that resurrected him. He is killed.

Ganondorf is reincarnated, and thus, is not known to anyone as the Demon King of Darkness. However, when he claims the prior Ganon's Trident, he becomes just that. He is sealed away.

aLttP Ganon still has the Trident, and is well known to be the Demon King of Darkness.

Whereas if we go with Hayzer's progression, we have:

Ganon, the Great Demon King, is transformed into the Demon King of Darkness by the power of a dark ritual that resurrected him. He is killed.

Through unknown means, he returns, Trident in hand, for aLttP as the Demon King of Darkness again, and everyone knows it's him. He dies.

Ganon is resurrected, and claims the Trident, again becoming the Demon King of Darkness for FSA. For some reason, this time, the people don't realize it's him, even though they did last time.

[MrMosley]

Well actually, if the Trident is the only thing that you believe connects FSA to aLttP as a prequel, then his timeline works.

In OoX, when Ganon is brought back from the dead, Twinrova summon the Trident as well. So he has it in OoX, and dies.

I actually don't like using the Trident as a good arguement in particular, but FSA made it such a key item that obviously they wanted to show how he got it in the beginning. Before FSA, it was just another weapon with no importance. I rely more on the fact that FSA talks about Ganondorf as a man seeking more power, which he learns he can attain with the Trident. To me, that says that placeing it after TP would indicate the he did not die at the end of that game, but lost the power of the Triforce. Much later on, he now cannot obtain the Triforce anymore, so he goes for the Trident.


In OoX, he's known as the Great Demon King throughout the game. When he's resurrected, he announces that he has become The Demon King of Darkness. However, I do not always consider his titles as a big thing. As Ganondorf, he was a King of Thieves. As Ganon, he is a King of Evil, or King of Darkness. Both and all of his titles as Ganon specify him as a King of some kind of dark magic.

In FSA, everyone thinks Vaati is the [Demon] King of Darkness, and no one suspects Ganon. However, the Trident specifically says that whoever picks it up will turn into the King of Darkness, and Ganon does, and thus becomes it. It's not till near the end of the game that the people of Hyrule realize Ganon's the King of Darkness.

This isn't a valid quote. When Ganon is resurrected, he groans a bit, then says "Destroy All...Kill All". After his defeat, he says, "I am the Evil King, Ganon". He does not specify the King of Darkness in that game.

My idea about the Trident is that in FSA, it was a powerful weapon. In ALttP, coming sometime after FSA, he still has it, and of course uses its power, but that is not noted. Only by playing FSA do we know that it is a source of power. However, we also know that Ganon is keeping the Triforce locked up, but we do not know if he is pulling any power from it either.

As far as OoX goes, I don't see the Trident as a source of power for Ganon in that game. The Trident is not a life, and it cannot physically die. Therefore, it cannot be physically resurrected. I see him having the Trident as more of a resurection of what he was previously, in ALttP. Its just like in LA, the Nightmare takes the form of Ganon, who has his Trident. Of course, this is just a figment of Link's memory of Ganon, just as him resurrected is more or less a memory of what he previously was.

[Erimgard]

I
This isn't a valid quote. When Ganon is resurrected, he groans a bit, then says "Destroy All...Kill All". After his defeat, he says, "I am the Evil King, Ganon". He does not specify the King of Darkness in that game.


グゴゴ。。。グガガガッ。。。！ワレハ　ガノン。。。ヤミノ　マオウナリ。。。。。。
Ggg…Gggg…! I am Ganon…The Maou of darkness……
Gwoh hoh hoh! I am Ganon... The Evil King...

Ganon calls himself the "Maou of Darkness", Maou means "Demon King"

[MrMosley]

Ganon calls himself the "Maou of Darkness", Maou means "Demon King"

Come on, your gonna bring Japanese game quotes to me now? :sick:

I usually don't go by what the Japanese games say unless its really important. I'll give you the fact that it is a different use of wording, and works well towards what you are arguing here. To me though, his titles aren't important as to defining where he's at in certain places. Sure, you could use that as an arguement, but its just not a very solid one for me. One of the Maidens in ALttP even calls him Ganondorf, the King of Thieves, in present terms. I believe its the last one you save. She then calls him Ganon, the Evil King of Darkness, but it seems that this means he can have either title because he is a man of many. Whether its King of Darkness, Evil, or a combination, I see it as all one in the same. Just different people are calling him roughly the same thing.

[Erimgard]

Well, the Japanese is the original so...

Well I personally believe that the resurrection in OoX is the reason why "of darkness" was added to his title. All of OoX deals with the spreading of darkness across the land.

Now fast forward to FSA, and the Trident specifically says that the one who picks it up will be given the powers of darkness and will become the King of Darkness. Coincidence?

There's only three games where Ganon ever has the King of Darkness title, and they are all the games where he has the Trident. If the Trident was summoned/created during OoX, then it explains perfectly why Ganon+Trident=King of Darkness.

[Hayzer]

This is what I'm rolling with right now (after I did many of my own studies):

---------/--WW/PH--ST
MC--OoT
---------\--MM--TP--LoZ/AoL--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--OoX

UPDATE:

-------------/--WW/PH--ST
MC--OoT
-------------\MM--TP--LoZ/AoL--OoX--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA

[MrMosley]

UPDATE:

-------------/--WW/PH--ST
MC--OoT
-------------\MM--TP--LoZ/AoL--OoX--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA

This doesn't explain how Ganon becomes stuck in his beast form. FSA and ALttP both give backstory of how Ganon came to be transformed into his beast form permanently. Those are the only two that give reason for him being a pig-man, so one has to come after TP as of right now. Seeing as how you don't like to place ALttP as a prequel to LoZ/AoL, your choice is basically:

TP--FS/FSA--LoZ/AoL--OoX (etc.)

Ganon needs a reason to be in his beast form for the games that he is in that form. This gives reason for that, and keeps your own personal belief that LoZ/AoL come before ALttP. However, it creates more problems, such as:

* How did Ganon escape the Four Sword after FSA? LoZ never gives any backstory at all to Ganon escaping.

Whereas if you were to put ALttP after FSA, as a distant sequel (like me), you would have reason for this answer, which would simply be the Palace of the Four Sword in the GBA remake. In it, people argue that the Four Sword is broken, which obviously shows that Ganon escaped at some point. It isn't physically broken, but it is in four separate parts, so that could classify as broken and can be used to explain how Ganon escaped after FSA. It would also resolve statements made in FSA about the Pyramid, the Trident, and the presence of the Dark World.

[Hayzer]

This doesn't explain how Ganon becomes stuck in his beast form. FSA and ALttP both give backstory of how Ganon came to be transformed into his beast form permanently. Those are the only two that give reason for him being a pig-man, so one has to come after TP as of right now. Seeing as how you don't like to place ALttP as a prequel to LoZ/AoL, your choice is basically:

TP--FS/FSA--LoZ/AoL--OoX (etc.)

Ganon needs a reason to be in his beast form for the games that he is in that form. This gives reason for that, and keeps your own personal belief that LoZ/AoL come before ALttP. However, it creates more problems, such as:

* How did Ganon escape the Four Sword after FSA? LoZ never gives any backstory at all to Ganon escaping.

Whereas if you were to put ALttP after FSA, as a distant sequel (like me), you would have reason for this answer, which would simply be the Palace of the Four Sword in the GBA remake. In it, people argue that the Four Sword is broken, which obviously shows that Ganon escaped at some point. It isn't physically broken, but it is in four separate parts, so that could classify as broken and can be used to explain how Ganon escaped after FSA. It would also resolve statements made in FSA about the Pyramid, the Trident, and the presence of the Dark World.

This is how I see it. The Ganon in LoZ could be the same Ganon from OoT and TP, the one in which Ganondorf is allowed to transform back and forth between human and beast, but just doesn't use his human form at all. It's speculation, but not on a grand scale.

However, yes I feel much safer about a timeline using the ALttP--LoZ/AoL, but I can't bring myself to discredit Miyamoto for saying otherwise. It's basically like this:

God vs. his creation, or Nintendo vs. the box

They both have greater authority over what they created and have rights to change it.

For instance, the timeline:

---------/--WW/PH--ST
MC--OoT
---------\MM--TP--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoX

Makes a crapload of sense, but it contradicts the words of the creator.

It's basically creation vs. evolution to paint another analogy. Even though evolution makes sense, it contradicts the words of the Creator, thus cannot be taken as fact. (Note: this is just an example. I don't want to start a thread about C v. E).

But, that's how I see it.

UPDATE: Dispite my previous statement, I have rearranged my timeline to where it looks thusly:

---------------/--GF--WW/PH--ST
CoH--MC--OoT
---------------\MM--GE--TP--FSA--SW--ALttP/LA--GR--LoZ/AoL--OoX

CoH--Creation of Hyrule (BSoOoT)
GF--Great Flood (BSoWW)
GE--Ganondorf's Execution (BSoTP)
GR--Ganon's Raid (BSoLoZ)
Tell me if I missed any other events.

*FS could go anywhere between MC and FSA

There are still some things that don't make sense, and I'm doing my best to work them out.