Fool-Proof(?) Timeline

[Caleb, Of Asui]

This is the timeline that I generally accept:

The Minish Cap
Four Swords
Ocarina of Time / Majora's Mask
Twilight Princess (The Wind Waker / Phantom Hourglass in Adult Timeline)
The Legend of Zelda / The Adventure of Link
Four Swords Adventures
A Link to the Past / Link's Awakening
Oracle of Seasons / Oracle of Ages

Here's my figuring:
- Miyamoto said in an interview before MM's release that the order was OoT, LoZ, AoL, LttP, with LA anywhere.
- Oracle games go after LttP because it works with the games' release order, and it makes sense that Ganon is dead and the Triforce is in Hyule Castle.
- Miyamoto (was it him?) said in another interview before FSA and TMC that FS goes first.
- We know the whole deal with the split and TP and TWW being in their own timelines.
- In FSA, Ganon is revived and trapped in the Four Sword for LttP to follow accordingly.
- LoZ is before FSA and LttP because it only works before - the triforce is still split after the events of TP and it's reasonable for Ganon to still be alive, even though Ganondorf (as in his human form) was killed in TP.
- Pretty much everything else is obvious and shouldn't be questioned.

All evidence points toward this timeline, so it seems to me like this is pretty close to Nintendo's official timeline that they won't tell us. Is there anyone that I've persuaded already? Or anyone that's willing to contradict some small detail with legitimate proof?

[Matt]

LoZ/AoL can't go there. Here's why:

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/bigboxshots/6/588436_40267_back.jpg


Please note that it says it is the predecessors to the Link and Zelda from the original game. Meaning that this game takes place before that.

Other than this glaring fact the timeline your have there is pretty common. Widely accepted

[ChargewithSword]

LoZ/AoL can't go there. Here's why:

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/bigboxshots/6/588436_40267_back.jpg


Please note that it says it is the predecessors to the Link and Zelda from the original game. Meaning that this game takes place before that.

Other than this glaring fact the timeline your have there is pretty common. Widely accepted

Should you really trust an American made box? They made a lot of changes to the manual too. How do we know that Alttp is the predecessor? Of course Miyamoto said that it was before LOZ and Aol but we can't say it's a predecessor Link.

[Caleb, Of Asui]

Exactly, ChargeWithSword. Most of the text on the boxes and manuals are not canon at all. I assume that the case with A Link to the Past's box was that Nintendo of America was just trying to figure it out and didn't know exactly what Miyamoto and Nintendo had in mind.

They could just be making a note that Link and Zelda are different people in A Link to the Past from the characters we had in the first two games. They might not have realized they were labeling A Link to the Past as a prequel.

I think most people who put LttP before LoZ haven't actually played those games. People tend to be missing the fact that Ganon DIES at the end of LttP.

[Matt]

I think most people who put LttP before LoZ haven't actually played those games. People tend to be missing the fact that Ganon DIES at the end of LttP.

I've played them all. And Ganon dies at the end of LoZ too. And in TP and TWW. (You try to survive getting a sword rammed through your brain.) So Ganon deaths have no bearing on timeline placement. Just face it, the guy has a tendency to die and then come back somehow. AoL shows that there are ways to bring him back. As does OoX.

[basement24]

They might not have realized they were labeling A Link to the Past as a prequel.

I think they did realize this at the time, because it was in all of the pre-hype surrounding the game. What I think they actually didn't realize was they were creating the beginning of a major headache for people like us more than 10 years down the road. :)

[MrMosley]

What I can't seem to figure out is how everybody thinks that every text given to the American versions of the games is wrong. I doubt they just threw anything up there on that box. If it says the predecessors of Link and Zelda, then thats what it means. Plain and simple. 98% of the people who play Zelda aren't going to say, "Hmm. Well I think I might go translate this Japanese box here and this entire manual to make sure this is right."

I don't want to sound so much like I'm ranting, but the thing is that what we get here in America is what we get. What they get in Japan is what they get. From what I've seen, the translation differences are not that great. We shouldn't have to go translate Japanese games to get a story when we have a perfectly find one here. So if thats what my box said that I paid $40 for, then thats the story I'm gonna go with.

As for the information presented here, Ganon dies at the end of LoZ. So much so, that they even made a sequel to it (AoL), where he was still dead. In any other Zelda game, he would have been revived somehow. LoZ is the only Zelda game so far that shows an apparent permanent death of Ganon. So it makes sense for it to come last in my opinion. Not to mention the fact that they named the game "A Link to the Past". So, they named the Japanese version "Triforce of the Gods". I doubt, very very much, that Nintendo would be so careless to not pay one bit of attention to the back of the box information, the manual, and the entire title of the game. I doubt that all of those things would imply that ALttP was a prequel, and it not be a prequel.

[sign of table]

The Japanese box implies that LttP is before LoZ/AoL (by implies I mean that as long as you don't way over-analyze a marketing tool it only means one thing), but it's from like 18 years ago and is waaaaaay outdated (along with the Miyamoto timeline), imo.

You can't really use the Miyamoto timeline without disregarding every other important developer quote from the time as well. Such as OoT being the SW. All those quotes are clearly outdated since TWW came out.

It's close to my timeline:
----TWW/PH
OoT
----MM-TP-FS/FSA-LttP-LoZ/AoL-OoX

TMC either goes before OoT or after TP/before FS (leaning towards before OoT, but not completely positive). LA can go after either LttP or OoX (I'm completely neutral on this).

what we get here in America is what we get What we get here in America is crap from Bill Trinen and Dan Owsen. If we use the American translations then we're going against the intent of Aonuma.
In any other Zelda game, he would have been revived somehow. He's only been revived in OoX ;)
LoZ is the only Zelda game so far that shows an apparent permanent death of Ganon. Other than OoX, LttP, TWW, and TP, of course, right?
Not to mention the fact that they named the game "A Link to the Past". So, they named the Japanese version "Triforce of the Gods". You do know that the Japanese version came first, right? The Japanese version is more canon than the crappy American version. Therefore the canon name is Triforce of the Gods.

Regardless, LttP was definitely a prequel to LoZ/AoL when it first came out.
Exactly, ChargeWithSword. Most of the text on the boxes and manuals Boxes, sure. But back then the manuals were the only source of story for the games and the games were made to go along with the manuals.

LttP was made to go along with the Seal War story. Thus, manuals are clearly canon.
They could just be making a note that Link and Zelda are different people in A Link to the Past from the characters we had in the first two games. They might not have realized they were labeling A Link to the Past as a prequel. Possibly. But the entire game of LttP and the story heavily implied that it would have been before LoZ. There's no reason to assume it wasn't.
I think most people who put LttP before LoZ haven't actually played those games. People tend to be missing the fact that Ganon DIES at the end of LttP. You must be missing the fact that Ganon dies in 5 games total...

i have a official box. YOU HAVE NOTHING!

[Caleb, Of Asui]

You can't ever just say, "Oh, let's just disregard whenever Ganon dies," because then you have almost nothing to go off in timeline theorizing. (Ganon is also revived in FSA, by the way.)

The main thing aside from Ganon is the Triforce, so LoZ should still go before LttP in that case. There's nothing at the end of TP rejoining the Triforce, so it's logical that it should still be seperated. It's put together at the end of AoL, so it has to be whole anytime after that. It won't just randomly be whole somewhere along the line.

By the way, I remember some important Nintendo person (not sure who, probably Miyamoto) saying that they're trying to fix the timeline a little with the newer games. That means TP, with the triforce being split and Ganondorf dying and everything.

Speaking of Ganondorf dying - LoZ can easily follow up after TP in the case of Ganon, since TP has Ganondorf dying in his human form, but his pig/beast form doesn't explicitly die, so Ganon (beast form) probably seperates itself somehow from Ganondrf (gerudo form) over time in order to be alive in LoZ. I know it sounds a bit farfetched, but Hyrule is a fantasy world after all. There's not anything as logical explaining his appearance in LoZ if it's after LttP.


But the entire game of LttP and the story heavily implied that it would have been before LoZ. What are you talking about? LttP's story gives no evidence of being before LoZ whatsoever. If you could provide a few examples, I would appreciate it. I'm still not really sure what makes so many people say LttP is before LoZ.

[MrMosley]

Regarding Sword's post, cause I'm not gonna quote all that, what I'm saying is that very few people actually care about what happens in other countries as far as the games go. Its not an important enough difference to translate Japanese information. We aren't in Japan, so we aren't going to argue Japanese text. What we will do is go with what we've been given. And that is not stuff that's going to be radically different from the Japanese versions. They don't change things and make it completely opposite of what it originally was without Miyamoto or Aonuma caring, at least in my opinion.

And no, Ganon was not proven permanently dead in those games. OoX dosen't show the death of Ganon at all. For all anyone knows, those games could come after LoZ/AoL, in which we know Ganon was killed. We do not know that he was killed in TP, it only seems that he was, but I can agree that he probably died in WW. And in the Oracles, he wasn't revived completely. Twinrova sacrificed their own body to bring him back to life, so that was not Ganon.

Also, we were given the name A Link to the Past. The word "past" is key here. Its not some random title they decided to throw up there for nothing. According to the last text of the game about the Master Sword, for all we know they could have planned on it being the last Zelda game.

[Steve]

And no, Ganon was not proven permanently dead in those games. OoX dosen't show the death of Ganon at all. For all anyone knows, those games could come after LoZ/AoL, in which we know Ganon was killed. We do not know that he was killed in TP, it only seems that he was, but I can agree that he probably died in WW. And in the Oracles, he wasn't revived completely. Twinrova sacrificed their own body to bring him back to life, so that was not Ganon.



And no, Ganon was not proven permanently dead in those games. OoX dosen't show the death of Ganon at all.

After he's defeated, he fades a way like smoke, so in which case he is just as dead as The Legend of Zelda Ganon.


We do not know that he was killed in TP, it only seems that he was

He was stabbed through the heart, if that didn't kill him then even basic physics don't apply to video games. Don't forget the Triforce of Power faded from him and so his immortality was no more.


but I can agree that he probably died in WW.

How can you think he's definitly dead in The Wind Waker and not Twilight Princess, if anything it's vice versa? The Master Sword only sealed him in stone, all it would take is for someone or something to remove it, and he'd be free. Whereas you remove it from Twilight Princess Ganon, and he'd still be dead.


Also, we were given the name A Link to the Past. The word "past" is key here. Its not some random title they decided to throw up there for nothing. According to the last text of the game about the Master Sword, for all we know they could have planned on it being the last Zelda game.

You're right, the word "Past" is key, because the game is a prequel to the other two.

[Erimgard]

The Minish Cap
Four Swords
Ocarina of Time / Majora's Mask
Twilight Princess (The Wind Waker / Phantom Hourglass in Adult Timeline)
The Legend of Zelda / The Adventure of Link
Four Swords Adventures
A Link to the Past / Link's Awakening
Oracle of Seasons / Oracle of Ages

Okay, if I'm reading right, you believe:

Adult-------WW-PH
MC-FS-OoT<
Child--------MM-TP-LoZ-AoL-FSA-aLttP-LA-OoX

Okay...here we go:

Why are FS and FSA so far apart? The FSA backstory makes it clear that FS and FSA are in close proximity and feature the same Link. As you currently have them, FS and FSA are hundreds of years part.

And before you tell me "FS has to be before OoT because the directors said so", consider the context of the quote:


The GBA Four Swords Zelda is what we’re thinking as the oldest tale in the Zelda timeline

Wanna know what he said RIGHT before that?



To me storyline is important, and as producer, I am going to be going through, and trying to bring all of these stories together, and kind of make them a little bit more clear. Unfortunately, we just haven’t done that yet.

So if you wanna structure a timeline around a quote about a game that he clearly is unsure of...well....doesn't seem too logical. In-game evidence says FS and FSA are right next to each other.

Okay... TP-LoZ
TP ends with Zelda holding one Triforce piece, Link holding one, and we don't know about the ToP. The AoL backstory (which takes place before LoZ and AoL) requires all three Triforce pieces to be in possession of the King of Hyrule. How does this happen?

Finally, when/where/how does the Seal/Imprisoning War play out in your timeline? The Seal War is the story of how the Sacred Realm became evil and was sealed away by the Seven Sages, setting the stage for aLttP. The requirements for when it happens are:

-It happens very soon after a battle arises in Hyrule for control of the Sacred Realm
-It happens at a time when no one has succeeded in finding the Sacred Realm and returning
-There have to be Seven Sages to cast a Seal
-The completed Triforce must be resting in the Sacred Realm

[sign of table]

Why are FS and FSA so far apart? The FSA backstory makes it clear that FS and FSA are in close proximity and feature the same Link. As you currently have them, FS and FSA are hundreds of years part. Just as clear that the MS in the SW is the same as in LttP? Or that Ganon is the same (wait, no, that's clearer)? Or that Ganon never left the SR between the SW and LttP?
Okay... TP-LoZ
TP ends with Zelda holding one Triforce piece, Link holding one, and we don't know about the ToP. The AoL backstory (which takes place before LoZ and AoL) requires all three Triforce pieces to be in possession of the King of Hyrule. How does this happen? The same could be said for LoZ/AoL as the first game on the AT.
Finally, when/where/how does the Seal/Imprisoning War play out in your timeline? The Seal War is the story of how the Sacred Realm became evil and was sealed away by the Seven Sages, setting the stage for aLttP. The requirements for when it happens are:

-It happens very soon after a battle arises in Hyrule for control of the Sacred Realm
-It happens at a time when no one has succeeded in finding the Sacred Realm and returning
-There have to be Seven Sages to cast a Seal
-The completed Triforce must be resting in the Sacred Realm

-A battle? There WAS NO BATTLE BEFORE THE SW. All it said was that it was not uncommon for blood to be spilled for certain information. Blood spilled =/= a battle.
-True.
-Heavily, heavily implied and intended to be human/Hylian sages.
-Yeah.
-Also remember that the SNES manual is clear that there was no gap for Ganon to leave the SR between the SW and LttP.

[MrMosley]

After he's defeated, he fades a way like smoke, so in which case he is just as dead as The Legend of Zelda Ganon.

You must not have understood what I said. I said that OoX could come after LoZ and AoL. Meaning that LoZ would be THE DEATH of Ganon. OoX does not show a new Ganon dying. LoZ is where he dies, AoL he is still dead, and without clear information showing where OoX goes, those are the only two games that back up his death. AoL shows that he is still dead, and is the only game that does so.



He was stabbed through the heart, if that didn't kill him then even basic physics don't apply to video games. Don't forget the Triforce of Power faded from him and so his immortality was no more.

No, he was not stabbed through the heart. He was stabbed in the abdomen. Yeah I saw the Triforce fade away, but we don't know that he died. He should have died, but we do not know that it happened.



How can you think he's definitly dead in The Wind Waker and not Twilight Princess, if anything it's vice versa? The Master Sword only sealed him in stone, all it would take is for someone or something to remove it, and he'd be free. Whereas you remove it from Twilight Princess Ganon, and he'd still be dead.

Not really. I doubt having your brain split in two would make it possible for you to function, even after your entire body was somehow released from a wall of stone. My timeline shows that ALttP comes sometime after TP, therefore it is likely that Ganondorf (the man) survived, or maybe was resurrected at some point, seeing as how the manual of ALttP talks about Ganondorf as a man gaining access to the Sacred Realm, and acquiring the Triforce. And no, this event is not Ocarina of Time. ALttP's manual says he wished to rule the Sacred Realm and was sealed there, where he transformed into Ganon. None of those events happen in OoT, so no matter how many times anyone says it, ALttP's backstory does not show enough evidence to be OoT.



You're right, the word "Past" is key, because the game is a prequel to the other two.

Which is exactly the point I was getting at.

[Steve]

You must not have understood what I said. I said that OoX could come after LoZ and AoL. Meaning that LoZ would be THE DEATH of Ganon. OoX does not show a new Ganon dying. LoZ is where he dies, AoL he is still dead, and without clear information showing where OoX goes, those are the only two games that back up his death. AoL shows that he is still dead, and is the only game that does so.




No, he was not stabbed through the heart. He was stabbed in the abdomen. Yeah I saw the Triforce fade away, but we don't know that he died. He should have died, but we do not know that it happened.




Not really. I doubt having your brain split in two would make it possible for you to function, even after your entire body was somehow released from a wall of stone. My timeline shows that ALttP comes sometime after TP, therefore it is likely that Ganondorf (the man) survived, or maybe was resurrected at some point, seeing as how the manual of ALttP talks about Ganondorf as a man gaining access to the Sacred Realm, and acquiring the Triforce. And no, this event is not Ocarina of Time. ALttP's manual says he wished to rule the Sacred Realm and was sealed there, where he transformed into Ganon. None of those events happen in OoT, so no matter how many times anyone says it, ALttP's backstory does not show enough evidence to be OoT.




Which is exactly the point I was getting at.

I've always believed the Oracle games occurred after LoZ, but I was recalling that you said Ganon didn't die. As for LttP, I was agreeing with you, and I seriously have to facepalm if someone thinks it is OoT. Ocarina was based off it, but certainly not the same game.

[Matt]

This might be nothing. But assuming that Twilight Princess has many games after it, it seems like it is ones only with Ganon in it. So maybe he did die in Twilight Princess and was revived some how after it. But not completely so he was only able to exist as Ganon and not Ganondorf.
Also, I'm likely stating the obvious and I didn't bother to check if it was already mentioned, Twinrova was killed in the Adult Timeline, she still lives in the Child Timeline. Meaning the Oracles must be in the Child line somewhere.

[Zemen]

This might be nothing. But assuming that Twilight Princess has many games after it, it seems like it is ones only with Ganon in it. So maybe he did die in Twilight Princess and was revived some how after it. But not completely so he was only able to exist as Ganon and not Ganondorf.

The basic idea is that any game that goes after WW and TP on the timeline will ONLY feature Ganon and not Ganondorf.


Also, I'm likely stating the obvious and I didn't bother to check if it was already mentioned, Twinrova was killed in the Adult Timeline, she still lives in the Child Timeline. Meaning the Oracles must be in the Child line somewhere.

This is something that I too have been looking into. Many people suggest that it must go on the AT because of the games it's connected to (or supposedly connected to). Many people put the ALTTP and LA games on the AT and apparently OoX is connected because of exclusive monsters in those games which means if those games go on the AT so does the OoX games, however, Twinrova is killed by adult Link which means she (they) can only live on in the CT (as we see them in MM).

Many people say "they could have been resurrected" but the problem with that is that there is absolutely no evidence for that, except or their existence which is much more evidence for it to be on the CT and not on the AT.

I still question what timeline I put the OoX games on, but I am more leaning towards the CT because of their appearance.

[sign of table]

The basic idea is that any game that goes after WW and TP on the timeline will ONLY feature Ganon and not Ganondorf.
FSA says "Hi"

[Zemen]

FSA says "Hi"

Does it actually SHOW Ganondorf or only talk about him? From what I've played from that game (and I've gotten to the last level), they never once SHOWED Ganondorf's face. You only see Ganon.

[MrMosley]

This might be nothing. But assuming that Twilight Princess has many games after it, it seems like it is ones only with Ganon in it. So maybe he did die in Twilight Princess and was revived some how after it. But not completely so he was only able to exist as Ganon and not Ganondorf.
Also, I'm likely stating the obvious and I didn't bother to check if it was already mentioned, Twinrova was killed in the Adult Timeline, she still lives in the Child Timeline. Meaning the Oracles must be in the Child line somewhere.

This is actually what I believe, Matt. My timeline is more or less an understanding of simple, basic ideas that the games portray. WW and TP seems to be the death of Ganondorf's human form. Plus, the other games that have been created can really only go after those two games, one way or the next, since they are pretty much the next games to take place after OoT, which is at the beginning.

The only thing that I can think of that would cause Ganondorf to be in another game would be after TP, if he somehow survived, and detail the events that are talked about in the BS of ALttP. Since I don't believe that the BS of ALttP talks about OoT, and since the ALttP manual talks about Ganondorf (the man), gaining access to the Sacred Realm and all that, I think that there should be a game after TP that goes through these events, and shows Ganondorf wishing to rule the SR and becoming Ganon. So in order for the timeline to make sense in my opinion, there can only be one more game with Ganondorf.

[sign of table]

Does it actually SHOW Ganondorf or only talk about him? From what I've played from that game (and I've gotten to the last level), they never once SHOWED Ganondorf's face. You only see Ganon. Well. sure, but it doesn't change the fact that Ganondorf appears again on the timeline.

[Zemen]

The only thing that I can think of that would cause Ganondorf to be in another game would be after TP, if he somehow survived

Why can't he survive after WW? TP shows him on the ground dead with the ToP seemingly leaving his body, whereas WW shows him Turned to stone by the Master Sword. I'm guessing that if the Master Sword is removed, he will no longer be stone. It seems much more likely that the Master Sword would be removed from his stone body than him just coming back to life somehow.

[MrMosley]

Why can't he survive after WW? TP shows him on the ground dead with the ToP seemingly leaving his body, whereas WW shows him Turned to stone by the Master Sword. I'm guessing that if the Master Sword is removed, he will no longer be stone. It seems much more likely that the Master Sword would be removed from his stone body than him just coming back to life somehow.

Well like I said, he does seem to die in TP, but my theory about the timeline is the biggest reason I think he could somehow have survived. He wasn't lying on the ground at the end of TP, he was still standing the entire time.

Seeing as how I don't put ALttP on the AT like I do Wind Waker, there aren't really any games on the AT that give me any reason Ganondorf could have survived his death in that game. To me, all we have to go on is the fact that he was stabbed through the brain with the Master Sword. He did not have the Triforce of Power at the time, therefore nothing could have helped him to survive something like that.

[Zemen]

Well like I said, he does seem to die in TP, but my theory about the timeline is the biggest reason I think he could somehow have survived. He wasn't lying on the ground at the end of TP, he was still standing the entire time.

Seeing as how I don't put ALttP on the AT like I do Wind Waker, there aren't really any games on the AT that give me any reason Ganondorf could have survived his death in that game. To me, all we have to go on is the fact that he was stabbed through the brain with the Master Sword. He did not have the Triforce of Power at the time, therefore nothing could have helped him to survive something like that.

He also doesn't have the ToP when he gets stabbed in TP.......I still fail to see how it's any different. Also, the King of red Lions made a wish before Ganondorf did. Wouldn't the triforce break apart again after the wish was made? And if it does break apart again then wouldn't Ganondorf have the ToP back? With that in mind, maybe he did have the ToP when he turned to stone. If he didn't, why would some normal mortal turn to stone instead of just die when getting stabbed in the head?

[MrMosley]

He also doesn't have the ToP when he gets stabbed in TP.......I still fail to see how it's any different. Also, the King of red Lions made a wish before Ganondorf did. Wouldn't the triforce break apart again after the wish was made? And if it does break apart again then wouldn't Ganondorf have the ToP back? With that in mind, maybe he did have the ToP when he turned to stone. If he didn't, why would some normal mortal turn to stone instead of just die when getting stabbed in the head?

Your still not getting what I am saying. ALttP's backstory has yet to be played through or shown to anyone, other in that game. The manual talks about Ganondorf as a man gaining access to the Sacred Realm and obtaining the Triforce. According to my timeline, this event should come sometime after OoT (since it can't be OoT) and sometime before ALttP. Seeing as how TP takes place between those games, and does not show this event, it gives a place open for Ganondorf to still be alive somehow.

The Triforce obviously leaves Ganondorf, or loses its power it is giving him at least at the end of TP. In WW, it floats off. If it went back into Link, Ganondorf, and Zelda, it would have shown that, but it didn't. It obviously went elsewhere to be discovered again at a later time.

If the ALttP backstory was something other than what it is, then I could see Ganondorf completely dying at the end of TP. But they still have that one story left to tell. According to my timeline, there is no backstory telling events that should come after WW, unless you wanted to put ALttP on that side of the timeline or something. Either way, Ganondorf should have one game left.

[Zemen]

Doesn't FSA talk about Ganondorf entering the SR but they call it the Dark World (which is the tainted SR)?

[Erimgard]

@SoJ

This thread isn't about whether or not my timeline is perfect. I know it's not. This about whether the person who made this thread has a (and I quote) "Fool-Proof" timeline. If you wanna talk about my timeline, PM me ;)

The only point you had that I feel I need to address is the topic of a war over the Triforce. Is there really much difference between "shedding of blood" and "war" ?

If you want to be literal to the most extreme sense, no, aLttP doesn't say there was a war. aLttP says that when people started looking for the Sacred Realm, there was bloodshed. However, Twilight Princess says when people started looking for the Sacred Realm, a great battle ensued. If you want to say these are separate events, then I think you're being highly stubborn. Even so, the concept is identical. Search for Sacred Realm. Violence.

[Alter]

I like this theory. It seems to be relatively close to my Trident Theory, which derived from none of the reasons that you mentioned. You can check it out here: http://www.zeldawiki.org/Timeline_Theories#Alter.27s_Trident_Timeline_Theor y

Anyway, I think that this is a very good theory. Good job!

[Zemen]

I think he meant to say "full-proof" instead of "fool-proof"

[MrMosley]

Doesn't FSA talk about Ganondorf entering the SR but they call it the Dark World (which is the tainted SR)?

If the event actually took place in FSA. That much I'm not sure about, as I've only played bits and pieces of FSA, and seen videos of most of it. But if FSA takes place during the time that Ganondorf entered the SR (which would be the BS of ALttP), then it would be during this time that I'm saying a new game could take place. But of course, if it is that game, then there would be no need for a game here. However, if it talks about the event like it took place before, then that would mean the same thing as ALttP's backstory, which is that Ganondorf has to enter the SR again, sometime after TP and before FSA.

[Erimgard]

Doesn't FSA talk about Ganondorf entering the SR but they call it the Dark World (which is the tainted SR)?

I'm fairly certain FSA never indicates whether or not Ganon entered the Dark World, but that's not particularly relevant. Ganon didn't touch the Triforce in FSA, and no Seal was cast...those are the two biggest timeline placements problems for the Seal War.

And yes, there is a "Dark World" in FSA, but whether or not it is the tainted Sacred Realm is highly debateable. Since the Japanese word used (makai) simply means any place taken over by a Demon, not all Dark Worlds have to be the tainted Sacred Realm.

There are a lot of key differences between the corrupted Sacred Realm of aLttP and the Dark World of FSA.

[Zemen]

I'm fairly certain FSA never indicates whether or not Ganon entered the Dark World, but that's not particularly relevant. Ganon didn't touch the Triforce in FSA, and no Seal was cast...those are the two biggest timeline placements problems for the Seal War.

I think the fact that the Dark World is used in FSA is a good indication that Ganon was probably there. Also, at the end of FSA, he is SEALED in the Four Sword (or the chest that it's held in)... that doesn't sound like "no Seal was cast" to me. By the way, that's not supposed to sound rude :P


And yes, there is a "Dark World" in FSA, but whether or not it is the tainted Sacred Realm is highly debateable. Since the Japanese word used (makai) simply means any place taken over by a Demon, not all Dark Worlds have to be the tainted Sacred Realm.

There are a lot of key differences between the corrupted Sacred Realm of aLttP and the Dark World of FSA.

In ALTTP, the Dark World is a near exact opposite of Hyrule with some differences. The Dark World in FSA is exactly the same. It is nearly exactly the same from wherever you enter with some differences.

[Erimgard]

Also, at the end of FSA, he is SEALED in the Four Sword (or the chest that it's held in)... that doesn't sound like "no Seal was cast" to me. By the way, that's not supposed to sound rude :P
Yes but the "Seal" has to be on the Sacred Realm, not the Four Sword. If the Sacred Realm isn't sealed, then what's the point of aLttP? Why is Ganon trying so hard to break a seal that doesn't exist :P




In ALTTP, the Dark World is a near exact opposite of Hyrule with some differences. The Dark World in FSA is exactly the same. It is nearly exactly the same from wherever you enter with some differences.

In aLttP the Dark World is only accessible by one-way portals that lead into the Dark World, but not out.
In FSA, it can be accssed and exited by things called "Moon Gates"

In aLttP the Dark World can only be exited with the use of a Magic Mirror. As said above, it can be exited by Moon Gates in FSA.

In aLttP the "Moon Pearl" is a single item that is used to protect the Hero from transforming. In FSA:
A: The Dark World doesn't even have transforming powers like it does in aLttP
B: Moon Pearls serve a completely different purpose

In aLttP, the Dark World is strictly parallel to Hyrule, and even when the Seal is broken, it remains as such. In FSA, the Dark World is not strictly parallel, and it spreads into Hyrule and corrupts it. The entire 5th Level of FSA is "The Dark World", even though its in Hyrule proper, and not the parallel Dark World.

..so yeah. Some pretty important differences.

[Zemen]

The Sacred Realm is a magical place. Why can't its properties change over time? Maybe the Dark World changes over time to make it's presence that much more mysterious.

According to OoT, the only entrance to the Sacred Realm is the Temple of Time. In ALTTP there are portals that take you to the Dark World (which is the Sacred Realm). Obviously means of transportation to the SR/DW have changed so why can't the SR/DW, itself, change?

[basement24]

The Sacred Realm is a magical place. Why can't its properties change over time?

I would have to agree with this. Hyrule itself changes over time, so I don't see why the Sacred Realm can't. It's also stated that Ganon changed the Sacred Realm to make it the Dark World once he gained control of the Triforce of Power, so it's possible that over time it could be warped into something else, either because Ganon wills it, or perhaps because it's adapting or evolving to being changed in the past.

[Erimgard]

The Sacred Realm is a magical place. Why can't its properties change over time? Maybe the Dark World changes over time to make it's presence that much more mysterious.

According to OoT, the only entrance to the Sacred Realm is the Temple of Time. In ALTTP there are portals that take you to the Dark World (which is the Sacred Realm). Obviously means of transportation to the SR/DW have changed so why can't the SR/DW, itself, change?

I can understand its entrances potentially changing, but its very nature (being able to reflect the hearts of those who enter and transform them) is absent in FSA.

If the Triforce is in the Sacred/Dark World during FSA, then it should reflect people. That's a fact stated in aLttP.

If the Triforce is not in the Sacred/Dark world during FSA, then how can FSA be the Seal War? How can Ganon enter into the Sacred Realm and grab a non-existent Triforce?

[Zemen]

If the Triforce is in the Sacred/Dark World during FSA, then it should reflect people. That's a fact stated in aLttP.

And a fact stated, in a game made more recently than ALTTP, says that there is only one entrance to the Sacred Realm. There are so many things when considering the timeline that don't make sense because some games completely contradict others.


If the Triforce is not in the Sacred/Dark world during FSA, then how can FSA be the Seal War? How can Ganon enter into the Sacred Realm and grab a non-existent Triforce?

You got me there, I guess.

The fact is, ALTTP does not fit nicely anywhere on the timeline because of it's BS.

[Steve]

And a fact stated, in a game made more recently than ALTTP, says that there is only one entrance to the Sacred Realm. There are so many things when considering the timeline that don't make sense because some games completely contradict others.



You got me there, I guess.

The fact is, ALTTP does not fit nicely anywhere on the timeline because of it's BS.
It especially doesn't help that they threw in Four Sword Adventures into the mix, to further complicate things. Which as you've stated, FSA contradicts with A Link to the Past as it basically rewrites the whole backstory.

[Erimgard]

And a fact stated, in a game made more recently than ALTTP, says that there is only one entrance to the Sacred Realm. There are so many things when considering the timeline that don't make sense because some games completely contradict others.

New entrances could be opened up. We know the magic mirror can do that.

It's also possible that the portals are a result of Ganon's wish corrupting the Sacred Realm and turning it into a mirror-world of Hyrule.

[Zemen]

New entrances could be opened up. We know the magic mirror can do that.

It's also possible that the portals are a result of Ganon's wish corrupting the Sacred Realm and turning it into a mirror-world of Hyrule.

So why can't some other item or some magical being change the Dark World around, if there are tiny mirrors that can make entrances to it? If such a small item can open up portals to a realm that once only had one entrance, then why can't a super villain with a massive amount of power change the nature of that realm?

[Caleb, Of Asui]

I'll clear up a few things here:

I'll admit it HAS been a long time since I played LttP (and I've played a whole lot of games since then), but I DO remember that the mirror only goes from the Dark World back to the Light World. To go the other way, you need to find a portal that's already in existence or go back to the portal created when you leave the Dark World. So, it's not THAT easy for any other powerful being to enter the sacred realm. They could never influence it like Ganon did, either, because Ganon turned it into the dark world by using the Triforce, which is never easily acessible.

About the FSA->LttP thing:
Ganon does get sealed in the Four Sword and does NOT get sealed in the sacred realm - at least, not automatically. LttP (only in the GBA version) shows us that the Four Sword and it's shrine were somehow moved to the sacred realm.

I know there's some four Dark Links or something (I'm not sure; I haven't played it) in the Four Sword Shrine in the GBA LttP, so it's possible that they released Ganon. After all, the Four Sword is (I'm pretty sure) split into four pieces at that point. As for how they got there... we know that Dark Link is in FSA. According to Zelda Wiki, when you finally defeat the Dark Links in that game, "Zelda undoes the seal on the Dark Mirror and takes it into her possession, dispelling them." At the end of the game, we see Zelda go through a doorway, quite possibly into the Four Sword shrine to leave the mirror with the sword. After the shrine is taken into the Sacred Realm, the seal on the mirror (not the same mirror as LttP's mirror) is obviously broken somehow, possibly by a monster. The fact that there are four Dark Links in the Four Sword Shrine can be attributed to the fact that there are so many of him in FSA, and because there are four Links right up until they put the Four Sword back. It makes sense that Dark Link has the motives to release Ganon - he'd had such motives since the very beginning of FSA, where he forces Link to draw the Four Sword and release Vaati.

[Halo siera 117]

Wait a minute, wasn't ganon in tp and oot blackish grayish and in alttp and loz he was purple.Hmmm......... I wonder what this means?

[MrMosley]

Wait a minute, wasn't ganon in tp and oot blackish grayish and in alttp and loz he was purple.Hmmm......... I wonder what this means?

That really doesn't mean a whole lot. Ganon was originally blue in color, but this was also during a time when the character was more cartoon-like, or basically non-realistic looking. When OoT rolled around, they made beast-form Ganon more realistic, so his colors changed. If you look at beast Ganon in TP, his only odd color is his mane, which is red like his hair. His body is the color of a normal boar.