Is Wind Waker the End of Ganon?

[DvSag]

I've been doing a bit of thinking on this, and I have put my foot firmly down and say that Ganon is absolutely done for by the end of Wind Waker, and ultimately can never come back in the OoT Adult Timeline.

Think about it:
1) King Daphnese Nohansen Hyrule wished for the three who bear the Triforce pieces to have their destinies fulfilled. Since Ganon is static in every Zelda game, I'm pretty sure he can't ever get the Triforce of Power back without conflicting with the King's wishes.

2) Link plunges the sword into Ganon's skull. Now this may not warrant his death, but the way he acts and his final words seem to imply that he is slipping into death. At this point in the game, without the ToP he is nothing more than a mortal man, and he just got a sword forced into his brain. And even if that didn't kill him, he's still concreted in stone with the Master Sword locked directly into him. It isn't like past cases where the Master Sword is locking whatever is keeping Ganon contained, it's actually locking Ganon himself.

3) He's a rock at the bottom of the ocean. I... I just really don't see how anyone will ever find Ganon or the Master Sword again...

Now, I'm obviously not saying that the timeline is done. The timeline not only can continue, but it already has with Phantom Hourglass. I just don't see Ganon ever showing up again in that particular timeline. Stick a fork in him. He's done.

[Zemen]

I've been doing a bit of thinking on this, and I have put my foot firmly down and say that Ganon is absolutely done for by the end of Wind Waker, and ultimately can never come back in the OoT Adult Timeline.

Think about it:
1) King Daphnese Nohansen Hyrule wished for the three who bear the Triforce pieces to have their destinies fulfilled. Since Ganon is static in every Zelda game, I'm pretty sure he can't ever get the Triforce of Power back without conflicting with the King's wishes.

2) Link plunges the sword into Ganon's skull. Now this may not warrant his death, but the way he acts and his final words seem to imply that he is slipping into death. At this point in the game, without the ToP he is nothing more than a mortal man, and he just got a sword forced into his brain. And even if that didn't kill him, he's still concreted in stone with the Master Sword locked directly into him. It isn't like past cases where the Master Sword is locking whatever is keeping Ganon contained, it's actually locking Ganon himself.

3) He's a rock at the bottom of the ocean. I... I just really don't see how anyone will ever find Ganon or the Master Sword again...

Now, I'm obviously not saying that the timeline is done. The timeline not only can continue, but it already has with Phantom Hourglass. I just don't see Ganon ever showing up again in that particular timeline. Stick a fork in him. He's done.

so are you saying that the adult timeline only consists of WW and PH?

also, after the king makes the wish on the triforce, the three pieces will break apart and go back to their respective holders. the king wished for them to fulfill their destinies. Link and Zelda's destiny is to stop Ganondorf. Ganondorf's destiny is to always be after the triforce which means that he cant die. his destiny is to protect the ToP and if the king wished for him to fulfill his destiny then he can never die, IMO.

im pretty sure that after the wish is made, they all get their triforce pieces back because doesnt Link have the symbol on his hand in the final scene of the game? if so then that means Zelda and Ganondorf would have their pieces too.

also, just to point something out, you are calling him Ganon but Ganon is technically not in the game. Ganon is the demon form and Ganondorf is the Gerudo form. Ganondorf never becomes Ganon in WW. for all we know, the demon part of him could somehow be ressurected (and that is probably the case).

[DvSag]

Well, I just always call Ganondorf "Ganon". Sort of like a nickname, but at the same time it's not like like I'm mixing up two completely different characters. They techincally are one-in-the-same.

And no, I'm pretty sure the Triforce leaves all three of the characters. I lost a serious debate about this a while ago. Lol. Have 'Charge with Sword' tell you about it.

And I don't think a fulfilled destiny can end with an ellipses. What I mean is that even though Ganon strives for the Triforce, he is ultimately destined to fail or succeed. Since he is pwnd in the end, I think that means he was never destined to have it.

[Zemen]

Well, I just always call Ganondorf "Ganon". Sort of like a nickname, but at the same time it's not like like I'm mixing up two completely different characters. They techincally are one-in-the-same.

And no, I'm pretty sure the Triforce leaves all three of the characters. I lost a serious debate about this a while ago. Lol. Have 'Charge with Sword' tell you about it.

And I don't think a fulfilled destiny can end with an ellipses. What I mean is that even though Ganon strives for the Triforce, he is ultimately destined to fail or succeed. Since he is pwnd in the end, I think that means he was never destined to have it.

so then do you think PH is the last game on the AT?

[DvSag]

Well, as of now I think it is, but I'm not saying it has to be. There can be future games in that timeline. They may even be able to revive Vaati or put Majora into both forks of the timeline, but I just don't think Ganon can ever return after what happened to him.

[Zemen]

Well, as of now I think it is, but I'm not saying it has to be. There can be future games in that timeline. They may even be able to revive Vaati or put Majora into both forks of the timeline, but I just don't think Ganon can ever return after what happened to him.

so then any game with Ganon cant go on the AT after PH?

im sorry but that doesnt make much sense especially when you have TP in mind. in TP, you kill Ganondorf just like you do in WW which, by your theory, would mean that he cant come back in future games but the games have to go somewhere.

[Midna666]

So far it seems like Wind Waker is the end of Ganondorf well at least on the Adult Timeline.
But only time will tell.

[Zemen]

So far it seems like Wind Waker is the end of Ganondorf well at least on the Adult Timeline.
But only time will tell.

not sure if you saw my last post cus i think we posted at the same time, but Ganondorf also dies in TP and the rest of the games have to go after one or the other. we cant just throw out all of the games from the timeline because Ganondorf died. resurrection is always a possibility as it has happened with Ganon before.

[Midna666]

not sure if you saw my last post cus i think we posted at the same time, but Ganondorf also dies in TP and the rest of the games have to go after one or the other. we cant just throw out all of the games from the timeline because Ganondorf died. resurrection is always a possibility as it has happened with Ganon before.

I said that Wind Waker is the last game for Ganondorf in the Adult Timeline.
Twilight Princess is the last game for Ganondorf in the Child Timeline.

And I believe there's at least two different Ganons in the Zelda Timeline,Ganondorf and Trident Ganon.

[DvSag]

The end of TP was different, though.

1) The Triforce was never wished upon by someone with goodness in their heart. No one ever made the wish to have any of the Triforce Pieces removed from Link, Zelda, and/or Ganondorf. Even though Ganondorf was smote by the Master Sword, he still should have the ToP. He also doesn't appear to be sealed in any way, just subdued. In WW he becomes a statue. In TP he just sort of stops moving.

2) Ganondorf is standing in the middle of Hyrule Field. It's not like WW where he's trapped at the bottom of the ocean, concreted to his tower in a forgotten realm unreachable by human means. In TP he's become more of a landmark than a corpse. If Link ever needed to get the Master Sword back, he'll know where to find it.

[Bokbok567]

Well Ganon or Ganondorf, which ever one you mean was probably resurected by the witch sisters in both timelines, but I'm not really sure. Its an awesome game and it should have the main character bosses like Ganon in it, but thats my opinion.

[DvSag]

The Witch Sisters (aka: Koume and Koutake; aka: Twinrova) only appear in OoT, MM, and OoS and OoA. I'm not sure where either of the Oracle games fit on the timeline, but I think they're all before WW and TP. At least I know for certain that OoT and MM are. They're the first two games chronologically.

[ChargewithSword]

Thank you for the reference to our lovely debate DvSag. However you must know that it's been proven possible to revive Ganon.

Aol said that Ganon's minions would have to spill his killer's blood, until WW Link dies, Ganon's surviving minions can make pursute.
In OOX Koume and Kotake attempted to revive Ganon by using a ritual that required Destruction, Chaos, and Despair.

It is possible that he will be revived.

However perhaps he could still be existing in "Ganon." I for one am a person who believe that Ganon and Ganondorf are two different people. The Triforce of Power seems to be the embodiment of Ganon since he was technically born from it mixed with Ganondorf's malice. This would lead to an LOZ-Aol com after LOZ theory.

[Zemen]

i believe they are one person. Ganondorf didnt have the ToP at the beginning of OoT. he acquired it and before he got it, he knew that he wanted to take over Hyrule and achieve ultimate power. regardless of if he had the ToP i think he would have pursued his goal of taking over Hyrule or trying to get the Triforce anyway. it was just kind of a bonus that he got the ToP out of his lust for power. whether he is Ganondorf or Ganon, he still is after the same thing which implies they are the same person with the same goal. if they werent, that would mean every time Ganondorf turns to Ganon he completely loses his Gerudo mind and his thoughts and becomes a completely different being. i find it impossible that without any evidence or quotes to support this it could be true. i believe it is one being with one goal and he just wont die until he achieves it or until the series ends.

[Shnappy]

Well, it's hard to say. Every Zelda game with Ganon being the ultimate, final boss, it seems like he dies. The End. The Wind Waker, with the sword being thrust into the skull and Ganon subsequently being turned into stone, I think, is just another way for him to die, but some may argue that Nintendo had made it more "dramatic", so to speak.

[Zemen]

Well, it's hard to say. Every Zelda game with Ganon being the ultimate, final boss, it seems like he dies. The End. The Wind Waker, with the sword being thrust into the skull and Ganon subsequently being turned into stone, I think, is just another way for him to die, but some may argue that Nintendo had made it more "dramatic", so to speak.

both TP and WW show Ganondorf actually dying. if you notice, every game that goes after those games on a timeline only has Ganon, not Ganondorf. its safe to say that TP and WW is the end of Ganondorf but its also possible for Ganon to be revived and that seems pretty obvious that that is what happens.

[DvSag]

It was a wicked awesome debate, CwS. I knew right from the start nothing but good would come from it.

And though I do respect your awesomeness in the area of argument, I must rebuttal once again. If what you say is true, and it probably is, then the only hope for Ganon (and/or Ganondorf) would be Ganon's minions or Koume and Kotake (or a being of equal power) to come along to revive Ganon.

Well, I think all hope is lost when it comes to Ganon's minions. None seem to have survived in the downfall of Ganondorf at the end of WW. The only acception being the Miniblin. They're the only enemies of Ganon's army to make a reappearance in PH; however, they may be working strictly for Bellum now. However however, if they can survive the downfall of Ganon where the Moblins and Bokoblins have petered out, then maybe they really are the one hope for him yet.

I don't have much to say about Koume and Kotake, there's absolutely no mention of them in either game. I guess the next best thing would have to be Vaati coming into the picture and resurrecting Ganon somehow.

[Zemen]

It was a wicked awesome debate, CwS. I knew right from the start nothing but good would come from it.

And though I do respect your awesomeness in the area of argument, I must rebuttal once again. If what you say is true, and it probably is, then the only hope for Ganon (and/or Ganondorf) would be Ganon's minions or Koume and Kotake (or a being of equal power) to come along to revive Ganon.

Well, I think all hope is lost when it comes to Ganon's minions. None seem to have survived in the downfall of Ganondorf at the end of WW. The only acception being the Miniblin. They're the only enemies of Ganon's army to make a reappearance in PH; however, they may be working strictly for Bellum now. However however, if they can survive the downfall of Ganon where the Moblins and Bokoblins have petered out, then maybe they really are the one hope for him yet.

I don't have much to say about Koume and Kotake, there's absolutely no mention of them in either game. I guess the next best thing would have to be Vaati coming into the picture and resurrecting Ganon somehow.

it has only been discussed in a few games how Ganon returns but i think its just supposed to be implied that he is reborn or finds a way to return. until recently, i have never heard anyone argue that there is more than one Ganon. what are the chances of multiple demons with the same name being born? Ganondorf is the original monster with the original lust for power. this lust along with the ToP created is alter ego, Ganon. the ToP could be how he constantly returns.

[DvSag]

it has only been discussed in a few games how Ganon returns but i think its just supposed to be implied that he is reborn or finds a way to return. until recently, i have never heard anyone argue that there is more than one Ganon. what are the chances of multiple demons with the same name being born? Ganondorf is the original monster with the original lust for power. this lust along with the ToP created is alter ego, Ganon. the ToP could be how he constantly returns.
Yea, I don't like the idea of Ganon and Ganondorf being two different beings. It just doesn't make sense. One is the alter ego of the other, and that's just the way it has to be. There's just too much coincidence that a demon named Ganon manifests into a man of pure evil intent who just so happens to be named Ganondorf.

The suffix "-dorf", to me, always always suggested that it was a "dwarf" version; a more reserved, compact version, of the larger, more powerful thing.
(i.e.- a dwarf star or a dwarf rabbit)

And yes, I know Ganon returns in many a questionable fashion, but I find it would be difficult to place anything where Ganon is revived past WW, because no mention is ever made of retrieving the Master Sword from the bottom of a sea; and the only game to ever make mention of the Master Sword being the seal on Ganon's true power is WW so... paradox, much?

[Zemen]

Yea, I don't like the idea of Ganon and Ganondorf being two different beings. It just doesn't make sense. One is the alter ego of the other, and that's just the way it has to be. There's just too much coincidence that a demon named Ganon manifests into a man of pure evil intent who just so happens to be named Ganondorf.

The suffix "-dorf", to me, always always suggested that it was a "dwarf" version; a more reserved, compact version, of the larger, more powerful thing.
(i.e.- a dwarf star or a dwarf rabbit)

And yes, I know Ganon returns in many a questionable fashion, but I find it would be difficult to place anything where Ganon is revived past WW, because no mention is ever made of retrieving the Master Sword from the bottom of a sea; and the only game to ever make mention of the Master Sword being the seal on Ganon's true power is WW so... paradox, much?

well if games do come after WW, then somehow Hyrule was either flooded or a new Hyrule was found. if Hyrule was flooded thats one way that the :mastersword: could have been retrieved. if a new Hyrule was found then maybe when people were searching the great sea for treasure someone found it and took it with them back home to the new Hyrule where it would rest. it could just be destiny that the :mastersword: is to be in Hyrule so some random events occured bringing it back to the surface.

[DvSag]

well if games do come after WW, then somehow Hyrule was either flooded or a new Hyrule was found. if Hyrule was flooded thats one way that the :mastersword: could have been retrieved. if a new Hyrule was found then maybe when people were searching the great sea for treasure someone found it and took it with them back home to the new Hyrule where it would rest. it could just be destiny that the :mastersword: is to be in Hyrule so some random events occured bringing it back to the surface.
Huh? When you say "Hyrule was flooded", do you mean "the Great Sea was drained"?

Also, isn't Link the only one who can pull the Master Sword from wherever it lies? Also, the power of the Master Sword is tied far more tightly to the fate of Ganon than the history of Hyrule. The only time Link is needed to pull the Master Sword is when Ganon rises to power.

Every villain requires their own sword to be defeated, with the only exception being Majora who can be slain with any sword.
- Vaati needs to be defeated with the Four Sword.
- Bellum needs to be defeated with the Phantom Sword.
- Ganon needs to be defeated with the Master Sword.

[Zemen]

Huh? When you say "Hyrule was flooded", do you mean "the Great Sea was drained"?

Also, isn't Link the only one who can pull the Master Sword from wherever it lies? Also, the power of the Master Sword is tied far more tightly to the fate of Ganon than the history of Hyrule. The only time Link is needed to pull the Master Sword is when Ganon rises to power.

Every villain requires their own sword to be defeated, with the only exception being Majora who can be slain with any sword.
- Vaati needs to be defeated with the Four Sword.
- Bellum needs to be defeated with the Phantom Sword.
- Ganon needs to be defeated with the Master Sword.

yes i meant it drained. i meant to type deflooded.

not sure what your post had to do with the placement of the master sword. i was just suggesting that the master sword with the pedestal could have been taken from the sea.

[ChargewithSword]

Huh? When you say "Hyrule was flooded", do you mean "the Great Sea was drained"?

Also, isn't Link the only one who can pull the Master Sword from wherever it lies? Also, the power of the Master Sword is tied far more tightly to the fate of Ganon than the history of Hyrule. The only time Link is needed to pull the Master Sword is when Ganon rises to power.

Every villain requires their own sword to be defeated, with the only exception being Majora who can be slain with any sword.
- Vaati needs to be defeated with the Four Sword.
- Bellum needs to be defeated with the Phantom Sword.
- Ganon needs to be defeated with the Master Sword.

I'd say that anyone with a pure heart or a person who is able to become the Hero. Even though Link has been seen as the only hero of Hyrule this doesn't mean there haven't been others.

Also Ganon didn't need to be beaten by the Master Sword. In truth the only weapons, that can defeat him are the Silver Arrows. (They are the only weapons able to kill him. The Master Sword is one of the few weapons that can mar him.)

[DvSag]

Dude, we're paradoxing.

The sword need only, and is only pulled when Ganon is around. If someone pulled the sword, then that must make them the new Hero, who would probably be a Link.

If the Master Sword can only be pulled by Link, who only ever realizes who they are when Ganon is around, and Ganon can only be released now when the Master Sword is pulled, then what are the odds of Link being the archaeologist who discovers the Master Sword in Ganon's skull and tries to pull the sword from the stone for no reason other than scientific discovery?

[Zemen]

Dude, we're paradoxing.

The sword need only, and is only pulled when Ganon is around. If someone pulled the sword, then that must make them the new Hero, who would probably be a Link.

If the Master Sword can only be pulled by Link, who only ever realizes who they are when Ganon is around, and Ganon can only be released now when the Master Sword is pulled, then what are the odds of Link being the archaeologist who discovers the Master Sword in Ganon's skull and tries to pull the sword from the stone for no reason other than scientific discovery?

no one said the sword has to be pulled to be moved. maybe whoever found it couldnt pull it out so they took it along with the pedestal (ganondorfs stone body) with them. after so long of being under water the pedestal could have eroded over time and been smaller and not looked like ganondorf at all.

[DvSag]

Right, but you guys are missing the point.

Even if the whole Ganon Stone was moved with the Master Sword, then that doesn't explain how or why the Master Sword was removed.

And, no offense, but "erosion" is a pretty weak story element for Ganon's revival. Lmao :P

[Zemen]

Right, but you guys are missing the point.

Even if the whole Ganon Stone was moved with the Master Sword, then that doesn't explain how or why the Master Sword was removed.

And, no offense, but "erosion" is a pretty weak story element for Ganon's revival. Lmao :P

who said that Ganon has to be revived from Ganondorfs body? as far as im concerned, when he was revived in the past they didnt find Ganondorfs dead remains to revive him. they dont need his gerudo body to ressurect the demon, that has been made pretty clear. its more of a soul that they are resurrecting into material. and i dont get what youre missing. if the master sword was brought, pedestal and all, to the surface then they could put it somewhere til its needed.

[DvSag]

who said that Ganon has to be revived from Ganondorfs body? as far as im concerned, when he was revived in the past they didnt find Ganondorfs dead remains to revive him. they dont need his gerudo body to ressurect the demon, that has been made pretty clear. its more of a soul that they are resurrecting into material. and i dont get what youre missing. if the master sword was brought, pedestal and all, to the surface then they could put it somewhere til its needed.
O.o
Which one of the Omen movies did you just get finished watching!?

[El Bagu]

A bit out of topic. Who says the ocean is gonna be there forever. Maybe as the climate becomes drier he will eventually be found again? Bad idea yes, but a possibility. I do not believe we have seen the end of Ganon. It is not always about reviving but also about being reborn I believe. And I believe that the spirit of Ganon can always come back somehow.

[Zemen]

O.o
Which one of the Omen movies did you just get finished watching!?

what does that have to do with anything? your theory is based on the idea that they need Ganondorfs body to revive the demon Ganon, but that has never been proven and keeping in mind that in OoX (which most likely takes place hundreds and hundreds of years after Ganondorfs dies no matter what timeline its on) Ganon is attempted to be resurrected, they most likely dont use his body as it would be long disintegrated by then.


A bit out of topic. Who says the ocean is gonna be there forever. Maybe as the climate becomes drier he will eventually be found again? Bad idea yes, but a possibility. I do not believe we have seen the end of Ganon. It is not always about reviving but also about being reborn I believe. And I believe that the spirit of Ganon can always come back somehow.

not so sure how i feel about a reborn idea. we never see Gerudos except for in OoT, TP(ganondorf only) and WW (ganondorf only) and in MM but they are pirates in MM with no male leader. other than that, in order for him to be reborn that would mean there are Gerudo in the world that we never see or hear about. i think its safe to assume that hes always ressurected or the ToP brings him back somehow.

[DvSag]

You're excusing the fact that the Master Sword is IN GANONDORF'S SKULL.

Maybe Ganondorf can never come back, but I'd be hard pressed to find Ganon coming back as well, especially if they are one in the same.

[Zemen]

You're excusing the fact that the Master Sword is IN GANONDORF'S SKULL.

Maybe Ganondorf can never come back, but I'd be hard pressed to find Ganon coming back as well, especially if they are one in the same.

lol no matter how you look at it, he comes back. you cant disprove that he comes back because he dies in both TP and in WW yet there are games after with Ganon in them which means he comes back. youre arguing an impossible idea because the fact that he is in games later on in the timeline is proof that he returns. there is absolutely no ingame evidence in any game to say that its a new Ganon. Ganondorf dies in TP and WW but afterwards Ganon comes back. they are the same person in a way. Ganondorf is a human who can die. when Ganondorfs body is destroyed, the ToP keeps Ganon alive because Ganon is not human. the body is destroyed, not the soul inside of it.

[DvSag]

You can't really prove that there are already games with Ganon after WW, either.

[ChargewithSword]

You can't disprove the fact that we stuck an arrow in Ganon's gut in Alttp and he ended up coming back in OOX.
Let me tell you something else, Ganondorf may be without a body DvSag but he has a spirit to use.

[Josh]

So on the happier, non hurting feelings side of things, I'd like to think he would come back. I mean you brought up all of what AoL is, they could just pick him up out of the water, crack the rock open, and he's alive, if he can stay alive for that long. And I doubt Nintendo would kill him anyway. In either side of the timeline for a very long time.

[Zemen]

You can't really prove that there are already games with Ganon after WW, either.

again, you miss the point. regardless of what timeline the games with Ganon go on, they take place after a game where Ganondorf dies.

if they go on the adult timeline then they go after WW. Ganondorf is stabbed in the head and turned to stone in WW.

if they go on the child timeline then they go after TP. Ganondorf is stabbed in/through the chest and seemingly dies in TP.

this means that no matter what timeline they go on, each game with Ganon in it takes place after a game where Ganondorf seemingly has died.

there is your proof that no matter what, the games take place after Ganondorfs supposed death.

[DvSag]

OoX isn't a sequel to ALttP.
LA is the sequel to ALttP.

Also, I don't know how much the Silver Arrows have really proved themself. They 'say' they can kill Ganon indefinitely, but they're used in both LoZ and ALttP. It's possible for Ganon to return in AoL, the sequel to LoZ.

And all I'm saying is:
The one thing known to stop Ganon every time is the Master Sword.
The Master Sword is now firmly rooted into Ganon's brain. The only reason the Master Sword is ever removed from its pedestal is when it's needed to destory Ganon. If Ganon IS the pedestal, why would Link remove it?

[Zemen]

OoX isn't a sequel to ALttP.
LA is the sequel to ALttP.

Also, I don't know how much the Silver Arrows have really proved themself. They 'say' they can kill Ganon indefinitely, but they're used in both LoZ and ALttP. It's possible for Ganon to return in AoL, the sequel to LoZ.

And all I'm saying is:
The one thing known to stop Ganon every time is the Master Sword.
The Master Sword is now firmly rooted into Ganon's brain. The only reason the Master Sword is ever removed from its pedestal is when it's needed to destory Ganon. If Ganon IS the pedestal, why would Link remove it?

because Ganon is not the pedestal, Ganondorf is. and its not necessarily Ganondorf, its just his body. youre thinking of it way too literally. he obviously can turn into a demon and he has been resurrected without his dead remains used (yes im going back to this). when youre talking about the Gerudo form can you please call him Ganondorf and Ganon when its the demon? because youre confusing the topic by referring to both of them as one name. there have been other games where Ganon/dorf is defeated by the master sword but he always comes back. no one ever said the master sword can for sure kill him. the only item ever spoken of like that is the silver arrows. thats the only item ever said to be able to actually kill him. just because he can be beaten with the master sword doesnt mean it can kill him. when hes turned to stone that could just represent that hes beaten for now until someone comes along and does something that allows him to escape or his sould escaped his body and since he is the bearer of the ToP he can revive himself as Ganon.

[DvSag]

Ok, I'll start referring to each respective character by their true name.

But am I wrong to assume that Ganon and Ganondorf are one in the same, anyway? If Ganondorf is locked, then why wouldn't Ganon? Ganondorf seems to be the predominant villain of the two these days, with Ganon only getting bit roles like "Beast Ganon" and "Puppet Ganon". If Ganondorf can't free himself, how can Ganon?

[Zemen]

Ok, I'll start referring to each respective character by their true name.

But am I wrong to assume that Ganon and Ganondorf are one in the same, anyway? If Ganondorf is locked, then why wouldn't Ganon? Ganondorf seems to be the predominant villain of the two these days, with Ganon only getting bit roles like "Beast Ganon" and "Puppet Ganon". If Ganondorf can't free himself, how can Ganon?

they are generally the same person its just confusing when you say ganon and youre referring to ganondorf.

just because ganondorf, a mere human/gerudo, gets captured/killed/sealed doesnt mean that ganon, the demon, does. i get what youre saying but you also have to look at it in terms of power. ganon is more powerful than ganondorf. ganon is a demon beast while ganondorf is just a human/gerudo who is mortal. ganon is kind of like his immortal counterpart. my beleif is that in WW and in TP its ganondorf who dies. because ganon is a powerful demon and did not show his true demon form, he remains and the ToP remains with his essence. this means that the Gerudo ganondorf is gone, but the demon Ganon is still around. just hid Gerudo body is destroyed but not him, himself.

[Smertios]

You're excusing the fact that the Master Sword is IN GANONDORF'S SKULL.

Ganon becomes solid stone in the ending of TWW, so the MS is just set in rock, exactly like it is in LttP...

[Chris]

I believe that Ganondorf may have died, but his immortal form Ganon or his spirit escaped and is being reborn somewhere. How do you think Ganondorf came back in TP, which I believe is one hundred years after OoT...I think. So if Ganondorf came back after he was killed by the master sword, it is obvious that some part of him got away and was reborn.

But if you feel I am incorrect, then tell me what is wrong.

[Vincent]

I believe that Ganondorf may have died, but his immortal form Ganon or his spirit escaped and is being reborn somewhere. How do you think Ganondorf came back in TP, which I believe is one hundred years after OoT...I think. So if Ganondorf came back after he was killed by the master sword, it is obvious that some part of him got away and was reborn.

He didn't exactly come back, and he was never killed. He was sealed away in the "Evil Realm" which is believed to be the Sacred Realm corrupted by darkness, because of Ganondorf taking the Triforce. It's become the Dark World, if you will. He said in the end of OoT "One day when this seal is broken, I will exterminate your descendants!" or something like that. Needless to say, the seal was broken on both sides of the timeline, at the same time.

[Chris]

He didn't exactly come back, and he was never killed. He was sealed away in the "Evil Realm" which is believed to be the Sacred Realm corrupted by darkness, because of Ganondorf taking the Triforce. It's become the Dark World, if you will. He said in the end of OoT "One day when this seal is broken, I will exterminate your descendants!" or something like that. Needless to say, the seal was broken on both sides of the timeline, at the same time.

If he never died, then what was that thing at the bottom of the ocean with a master sword in it's head. Also, how did Ganondorf get locked in the seal if he was dead. He had to comeback somehow. I am sure he just created another form of him and used that. Another very unlikely theroy is that the Ganon that Link killed wasn't the real Ganondorf, but a fake or a duplicate incase he lost.

[Vincent]

If he never died, then what was that thing at the bottom of the ocean with a master sword in it's head. Also, how did Ganondorf get locked in the seal if he was dead.

I was referring to Ocarina of Time in that post. He never died in that game.

[Smertios]

I believe that Ganondorf may have died, but his immortal form Ganon or his spirit escaped and is being reborn somewhere. How do you think Ganondorf came back in TP, which I believe is one hundred years after OoT...I think. So if Ganondorf came back after he was killed by the master sword, it is obvious that some part of him got away and was reborn.

But if you feel I am incorrect, then tell me what is wrong.

I think there is an interview in which Aonuma confirmed that Ganondorf died in TWW. I'll look for it...

[Gildragon]

if there is one thing I've learned about the continuity of Ganon Being trapped, dead, etc.

He finds some way to escape. or come back to life. and really considering this is a highly fantasy based game they could come up with just about anything

[zeypherlink]

He isn't dead. He's just turned to stone by the Master Sword. It's like a key. Something tells me that in some future Zelda game that takes place after TWW/PH, Link is gonna have to pull out the Master Sword to beat some evil guy, but at the same time he'll be reviving Ganon/dorf. Just like earlier in TWW Ganon/dorf says that when Link pulled the Master Sword out of it's pedistal, all his dark magic came back. The Master Sword is always a key...

[MrMosley]

I don't distincly remember the king wishing for them to fulfill their destinies. The only two things I remember him wishing on specifically was for the ancient land of Hyrule to be washed away, and for Link and Tetra to be given a future. So I don't believe Ganon is completely gone. In fact, the end of WW sets up a good reason for him to be resurected as his pig form Ganon, if you were to place the FS saga in the Adult Timeline, which is actually a point I once tried to argue and still may hold true.

The only two things I am certain of, is that the old Hyrule is gone in that timeline, and obviously Link and Tetra had a future which probably made a big impact on the world, seeing as how the Triforce's wishes come true specifically. They probably went on to find a new Hyrule, which we will most likely see in a later game. My original theory was that the Hyrule present in FS, FSA, and MC were all this new Hyrule which was discovered, but many disagree with this theory.

[Megamannt125]

If someone pulled the sword from his head he'd probably come back. *hint hint nintendo*

[DvSag]

Yea, that's what I'm getting at.

The thing is: who other than Link can pull the Master Sword from Ganon's head, and how can he even get to him in the first place?

[Johnny Boy]

Knowing the Legend of Zelda series, he will probably come back to life somehow.
In LttP, Agahim the wizard revived Ganon.
Soon enough, some other evil person will swim down to the stone that is Ganon and pull out the sword dislodged into hit head.
Kind of like the whole sword in the stone deal.
Once the Master Sword is removed, he will be able to reign again.
Nintendo will most likely have him revived again in a future Zelda game.

[Gildragon]

Knowing the Legend of Zelda series, he will probably come back to life somehow.
In LttP, Agahim the wizard revived Ganon.
Soon enough, some other evil person will swim down to the stone that is Ganon and pull out the sword dislodged into hit head.
Kind of like the whole sword in the stone deal.
Once the Master Sword is removed, he will be able to reign again.
Nintendo will most likely have him revived again in a future Zelda game.

But that leaves us with the problem of having an evil person holding on to the master sword

[Mike Pothier]

Look, this isn't rocket science.

Yes, Ganon died at the end of WW.

No, he won't stay dead. Like Dracula from Castlevania, you just can't keep a good villain dead. Villains come back like the proverbial cat.

[DvSag]

Look, this isn't rocket science.

Yes, Ganon died at the end of WW.

No, he won't stay dead. Like Dracula from Castlevania, you just can't keep a good villain dead. Villains come back like the proverbial cat.
I've accepted that he will probably come back, but I just feel that if he does and it's clearly after WW on the timeline, then Nintendo is going to have a lot of e'splaining to do.

[Zemen]

I've accepted that he will probably come back, but I just feel that if he does and it's clearly after WW on the timeline, then Nintendo is going to have a lot of e'splaining to do.

it wouldnt be hard to explain. first of all, the only real reason people see this as a problem is beacuse its underwater. its not that hard to come up with a story as to how it came to the surface. maybe some evil being comes around and the only way to stop him is with the master sword. this forces Link to pull the sword out, reviving ganondorf, but he doesnt have to worry about ganondorf for the moment because hes too weak to do anything. while Link is off fighting this other entity ganondorf regains power and now another battle with him must commence. it really wouldnt be that hard.

[Brandikins]

We think that, but since the Chronilogical of zelda isn't official yet, we can't be completly sure...

[Caleb, Of Asui]

I've always taken the fact that Ganon is stuck at the bottom of the ocean with the Master Sword in his head as evidence that the Master Sword can be in no later parts of that timeline. I haven't thought about that keeping Ganon there, although it makes sense that it would be rather difficult for him to get out of that.

We do see Ganon revived in a lot of games, which I think most of us are considering to be in the child timeline. He and his human/gerudo body die in Twilight Princess, so he can only later be revived in his beast form.

The same thing could potentially happen in the adult timeline. He died in his gerudo body, but he can still return in beast form should he ever be revived in that timeline. That would cause a dilema since the Master Sword is still stuck at the bottom of the ocean, where Hyrule was. The main thing used to defeat him in the older games aside from the master sword was the silver arrow. It would be cool to see that item return and such a situation might be perfect for that.

So, we might see Ganon being revived in Spirit Tracks. I'm not saying it's going to be a second sequal to The Wind Waker - it could be a new Link and Zelda in the same timeline - and I know that a lot of Zelda fans now would like to see Nintendo take a break from Ganon.

[Zemen]

Isn't there a game where you receive the Master Sword from some water creature who says he got it from the bottom of the ocean?

[Master Kokiri 9]

actually ganon/ganondorf has died many times and has also come back many times so no i think it's unlikely that ganon/ganondorf is gone for good in fact i somewhat suspect that in the 100 between phantom hourglass and spirit tracks that he may have aquired enough energy to free himself from his watery grave

[Len]

actually ganon/ganondorf has died many times and has also come back many times so no i think it's unlikely that ganon/ganondorf is gone for good in fact i somewhat suspect that in the 100 between phantom hourglass and spirit tracks that he may have aquired enough energy to free himself from his watery grave

well...that maybe true, since i don,t know how can ganondorf come to life again being a rock at the bottom of the ocean (ganondorf awakens?) link sure did end (for a long time) with him, i doubt about that he is going to comeback in other game... who knows, nintendo makes wharever they got in mind, maybe an awakening, maybe the solid rock breaks,... who knows.:thinking:

[startimer]

Ganondorf isn't dead. You cant 'revive' Ganondorf when he's not dead. His body has bee turned to stone, and his spirit sealed inside the stone by the MS

HOWEVER

You see in TP and WW that ganon can have a half-existance in the real world after he's been sealed. Who's to say he won't try to trick Link into pulling the MS and freeing him, like he did in WW?

[fiercedeity619]

If Link ever needed to get the Master Sword back, he'll know where to find it.

if you notice at the end credits of TP link already has the master sword:P

[Master Kokiri 9]

Well maybe his spirit escapes his petrified body and found a host to revive himself like he did in tp. and then link has to go to the ruins of hyrule which are now beneath new hyrule and pull the master sword from the souless stone body so he can slay ganondorf for like the billionth time.

[Zarom]

Me I think Ganondorf is really dead in WW. But that doesn't mean he can't come back in other games. Ganondorf is dead, but his soul still is there, so he could be resurrected after that like in the oracles games. :ganondorf:

[Hayzer]

In other words, you can say that WW Ganondorf has been Sealed by the MS. However, in TP, all we really know is that he lost the ToP. It also looked like Zant killed him too, but that doesn't mean he's done. TP would set us up for LoZ (where he gets the ToP again), or FS/FSA (where Ganon gets the Trident, plausibly because he lost the ToP).

Like Zemen, I believe that they are one person, but it's possible that throughout the timeline they become two. With the canon timeline (OoT/MM--TP, and OoT--WW/PH) we see and know one thing: TP and WW mark the end of GanonDORF. Does this mean Ganon's dead? No. These games could be where his personality splits into Ganondorf the man, and Ganon the beast.