Enemies AI

[Alter]

How about advanced AI for your enemies? Perhaps some of them hunt in packs or stalk you. Maybe even attempt to corner you.

I like the idea of enemies only "respawning" every now and then, and possibly keeping damage for a while. If severely injured, they attempt to flee. If they escape, they will either heal or die.

It's almost like they were sent to destroy you, rather than just stumble around until they spot you. They also wish to preserver their own lives.

[Josh]

Yeah I'd like that. It's always been they just kind of appear, walk in like a straight line towards you, and then try to kill you. They don't really defend themselves, or do anything else. If they tried to defend themselves, kind of like in AoL where they moved the sword and shields they had themselves, it might be a little better.

[El Bagu]

I really like your idea of some more "intelligent" enemies. It would make the games a bit harder and add to the excitment factor. But not all enemies, that would freak me out D:.

I would like to be hunted by enemies, in a way PH is actually a role model here if we think about the ocean king temple. Well they didn´t exactly hunt you the enemies but they were rather alert, and if spotted....

[DvSag]

One thing that needs to change is how enemies are susceptible to attack. In TP (and basically every other 3D Zelda title, but mainly in TP) the "tougher" enemies all have one major opening. Try as you might, there's really only a few tactics you can use to best these foes; try otherwise, and you'll be on your arse in no time flat. However, the downside to this is that once you find that enemy's particular weakness you can exploit it consistantly and that takes all the tactical work out instantly.

What would make the enemy AI seem more intelligent would be if they changed up their strategies once their weaknesses were found out. Take, for example, the Darknut in TP. Quite possibly one of the few challenging enemies in the game, especially with his armor destroyed. Well, all he really needs to be bested is a side-step attack to stun him, and then you can just go to town with sword swings. You can keep doing this over and over, and he won't even have time to attack, let alone counter attack. Perhaps, however, if after you had found out that all you needed to do was side-step attack and you hit him with it, he'd change his stance randomly. This new stance would not tolerate your side-step attack any longer, and you'd have to figure out which technique you need to use to get through his new defense. Now imagine not just one Darknut, but a small platoon of Lizalfos constantly changing up how they fight you. Wouldn't that make the game more of a challenge? It would definitely make Lizalfos more threatening, that's for sure.

[Amelie]

I think that is a great idea. I find the IA in newer Zelda games to be very... lacking. I think them stalking you or traveling in groups or even cornering you would be a great improvement. I dont know why Nintendo has not done that already.

[Alter]

On a side note, I should ask if anyone has ever played one of the "Carnivores" games. Bassically like dear hunter, except you hunt dinosaurs. The raptors cleverly stalk you. And it's a Windows 95 game! If they could do that then, think about now!

I'm just so surprised that they haven't thought of this yet. I hope someone from Nintendo is reading this.... *yeah, right*

[lonely_moon]

I would like to see more intelligent AI. The enemies would seem like they actually had minds of their own. They could all employ different attack tactics, even differing between members of the same species, so that way, no two would ever be truly alike. And, like Alter said, they would know when they were seriously injured, and would attempt to flee.

It would definitely add some difficulty to the game. But please don't add that extra AI to Darknuts/Iron Knuckles. They're hard enough. Same with ReDeads, except they're more scary than hard, and also, I don't think they'd even have a brain.

[Zeanith]

Eh. I don't really know. I like the dumb ones. They make me laugh.

[Zemen]

im not so sure about advanced AI but i think it would be nice to have difficulty settings because some of the Zelda games seem too easy (WW comes to mind right away). i beat WW without dying at all both times i played through.

[Caleb, Of Asui]

It would be cool to have intelligent AI. It would certainly be more realistic. I'm going to agree with lonely_moon and say that some of them should stay stupid, like redeads that aren't supposed to think very much / at all, and darknuts who, besides being hard, are kind of just supposed to stand there as guardians sometimes. Some weak enemies are probably supposed to have little intelligence, and thus low AI.

Though, it is always fun to have Darknuts kill each other in The Wind Waker, then look around like, "What the heck was that?" ;)

[Vincent]

All the AI in Zelda needs to be tweaked. They're not very advanced with the AI, Nintendo. I would like to see an enemy actually dodge my attack, and outsmart me. A perfect example of bad AI is Ganondorf in Twilight Princess. If you stand behind his cape, he'll just stand there and kick the air, forever. Also, if you hold the fishing rod over him, he'll just stand there and stare at it like a cat with yarn.

[linkman8]

On a side note, I should ask if anyone has ever played one of the "Carnivores" games. Bassically like dear hunter, except you hunt dinosaurs. The raptors cleverly stalk you. And it's a Windows 95 game! If they could do that then, think about now!

I'm just so surprised that they haven't thought of this yet. I hope someone from Nintendo is reading this.... *yeah, right*
Oh yeah, I used to play that game back in the day. Heck, it's still fun. But yeah, out of nowhere, you'd have a raptor or an Allosaurus hit you from behind.
Now that would be cool if they were to apply it to the next Zelda game. If enemies could hunt you, that would add a nice looming, surprise factor to the game. Also, it'd be nice if the enemies could initiate tactics against you, like if you're trying to escape, they could tell their allies to cut you off at a certain point. Stuff like that.

[Y2K3]

I think it's a great idea, but I also agree with lonley_moon and Caleb about how not all all enemies should be smarter. Sure, adding more AI would make the game seem more realistic, but at the same time, making everything smart would take away.
Such as: Like Likes or even those Redeads should have pretty low AI. They don't think. They're just there.
However, most/all of the -fos would be expected to have a higher AI.
Well, that's really just my opinion anyway. :P

[Zemen]

i like all of your ideas on the AI. it should be changed but leave the obviously dumb monsters dumb and make the tougher monsters smart. the only time in Zelda that enemies are hard to fight is when there is more than 3 or 4 of them attacking you. other than that its usually carelessness that gets you killed as opposed to lack of skill.

[DvSag]

If the monsters didn't hesitate and there were more of them attacking you at once, the game would be so much harder.

Back in the ALttP days, as soon as enemies saw you they charged at you. Now-a-days we have enemies who stalk you, but have no defenses. They carry shields, but they do NOT know how to use them.

[linkman8]

If the monsters didn't hesitate and there were more of them attacking you at once, the game would be so much harder.

Back in the ALttP days, as soon as enemies saw you they charged at you. Now-a-days we have enemies who stalk you, but have no defenses. They carry shields, but they do NOT know how to use them.
That's a good point. How the enemies use what's given to them. I mean, they all use their swords, but do they ever really use their shields? Some do, some don't. Also, I think it would be cool if the enemies had inventories that could include maybe a bomb or something, along with arrows, a bow, etc. That way they can adapt to different situations. Again, that would take some pretty AI though.

[DvSag]

That's a good point. How the enemies use what's given to them. I mean, they all use their swords, but do they ever really use their shields? Some do, some don't. Also, I think it would be cool if the enemies had inventories that could include maybe a bomb or something, along with arrows, a bow, etc. That way they can adapt to different situations. Again, that would take some pretty AI though.
That would be AWESOME.

You know how in Metroid Prime 2 & 3, Dark Samus would continually stalk you, provoking the occasional battle? What if Dark Link stalked you in the next Zelda, but he would be given every weapon you have to fight against you.

Bombs, arrows, hookshot, deku nuts, etc etc etc

I would love it, and that would make for one really awesome 1v1 multiplayer game.

[Amelie]

The dark link idea actually sounds very fun. I cant help but wonder if it might get annoying after a while though... I mean... I guess as long as he was not TO hard to battle it would be OK. I just dont want it to end up like FF 2 where you get attacked all the time by some monsters and they kill off your party.. leading to major frustration ><

[Petman1325]

Well, Nintendo games have been using pretty much primitive AI. In the 3D systems, it was much easier, for there was no elevation changes or advanced AI to use. All it was composed was of the following "unit ENEMY: if USER on Plane (If a specific ray that starts from the enemy's to the end of the screen hits Link), unit ENEMY goto USER. if contact USER, then subtract DAMAGE (Take the life points away from Link)".

Now, in the 3D world of gaming, we need a more complex and realistic system. For this one, I'll use enemies that use both a sword and shield, such as Stalfos from Ocarina of Time. The code is not even similar to the above code. The coding styles is more of a random generator, in which the AI randomises if it wants to attack, take down it's shield for a second, or just stand in a shielding position. "ENEMY STALFO *GENERATE UNIT*. if UNIT=1, then ORBIT USER. if UNIT=2, then STOP ORBIT. if UNIT=3, then REMOVE SHIELD. if UNIT=4, then ACTIVATE SHIELD. if UNIT=5, then ATTACK." Units five and up are various attacks. However, the Dark Link battle is much different. Dark Link is always a second behind. That is why it is easy to kill Dark Link by holding your shield, then quickly doing a jump attack. Dark Link would take down his shield to try to counter it, but it would be too late, thus causing either a compliment in programming or a missed bug. Now, adding weapons and such would only add on as to how many UNIT attacks there would be, thus randomising the game much more. However, there is now newer AI, as found in Twilight Princess, in which if harm to a comrade happens, they see you, or if they "hear" you, they would try to attack you. Then, the AI would think either faster or slower, sort of like Super Smash Bros, in which the AI was not simply difficulty, but delaying the thinking process of the console. I honestly don't know about these, but I do know that this is quite similar.

[basement24]

I think the AI is definitey in need of some upgrading. There should still be stupid enemies, but as it was stated above, the smarter ones shouldn't be a "figure it out once and you've got them all" type situation.

Just wondering if anyone else noticed this in TP, that the chus were probably some of the smarter enemies in the game? While they weren't tough to beat, they actually would group together to form a large chu before attacking. If you cut it apart, they would actively search out more chus to reform into a large chu again before attacking again. This only seemed to happen when there were a lot of chus already in the area, but I thought that was kind of impressive AI considering they were just a low level character.

[the walrus cat]

That would be AWESOME.

You know how in Metroid Prime 2 & 3, Dark Samus would continually stalk you, provoking the occasional battle? What if Dark Link stalked you in the next Zelda, but he would be given every weapon you have to fight against you.

Bombs, arrows, hookshot, deku nuts, etc etc etc

I would love it, and that would make for one really awesome 1v1 multiplayer game.
That's a great idea, they could make him have a respawn point, and he'll randomly wander around. If he see's you, he'll start following you and attack you when he's closer.

As for other enemies..

Since undead enemies wouldn't really use strategy as they don't have minds of their own, they should just do one thing: Attack link.

Weaker enemies who would travel in hordes would start to flee when most of their allies are getting killed.

Yes, the mosters in zelda aren't very smart.

[Axle the Beast]

I personally would not like normal enemies to behave this way. I mean, powerful AI for battles would be great, but enemies keeping their damage, retreating and respawning occasionally... I don't think it would really work for Zelda. But that's just me.

However, for special characters like Dark Link, or bosses, etc., I think it could be an interesting idea.

And if they were to improve the AI of enemies in actual battles, then that would be something I'd be into.


That would be AWESOME.

You know how in Metroid Prime 2 & 3, Dark Samus would continually stalk you, provoking the occasional battle? What if Dark Link stalked you in the next Zelda, but he would be given every weapon you have to fight against you.

Bombs, arrows, hookshot, deku nuts, etc etc etc

I would love it, and that would make for one really awesome 1v1 multiplayer game.
I don't know about Prime 3, as I haven't played it, but in Prime 2 Dark Samus does not actually stalk you. It gives you the idea of it, but Dark Samus really only shows up at preset points, only three of which result in a battle. I still think that would be interesting for Dark Link, either way, and agree with you.

[ChargewithSword]

For enemies that work in Tribes, they should have some sort of team moves to work together. Let us use our friendly Bublins as examples and let's use the Aribiter Grounds as an example area.

The enemies work together to kill you and think smarter in their natural enviroment. The Bublins would hide behind small walls then jump over them when you get close to them.
They would also have an alarm system like MGS, however when you activate the alarm, the guard stays on guard fully with formations.

My own example: When you approach a large group of 5 bublins, 2 shall try to get into arrow aiming spots. If you give chase, one bublin will move fast and hit you with a tripping stick so the others can get away. Etc for more.

In environments that the Bublins have yet to explore they would be less crafty and use the surroundings in a more obvious fashion.

--------
For stand alone enemies, they would try to work together or fight each other as a form of competition.

Chu-chus for example could attempt to form larger chu-chus by combining with each other.
Poes could eat each other and use the other as ammunition or energy.
Wizzrobes could attack in groups and attempt to fool you using a spell on each other but casting a sort of reflect that would allow them to hold out unless enough pressure is applied.
Darknuts can use everything on the ground to attack you and would even use other enemies to try and kill you.

The possiblities for higher enemy AI is endless.

[Master Kokiri 9]

Ya know i would actually love enhanced ai for enemies. It would definetly add to the challenge. Like fighting off a pack of lizolfos. or maybe fighting off a pack of darknuts...>.< on second thought that would be too hard.

[Twili Kid]

I would enjoy a more intelingent AI. And here is when I bring up one of the smartest enemies which is sadly the the little spiders in the Temple of time. They come in giant packs and basicly one at a time they would come at you while you weren't looking and attack, but before you could recover they ran away.

I feel bosses or tough ememies like darknuts could fight as fast as you can. It would be like fighting another player except he/she is bigger and your whole battle would haved to be changing how you attacked the weak point. It would be a 1 on 1 sword duel with basicly another player fighting against you, woudnt that be great

[knowlee]

I would like to have smarter enemies in Zelda. It would add to the difficulty of the game which means that it would make you work harder to beat it. :)

Although at the same time, I don't want the enemies so hard that it makes you want to throw the controller at the screen in frustration because you've tried everything at your disposal to destroy the little fiends and nothing worked. I would just like for the enemies to be hard enough that it wouldn't make them seem so weak and that it would give your encounters with them the feeling that they're actually worth fighting. :)

[Alter]

The idea wasn't simply to make the game harder, but different. I think it would be so much more fun if every battle was a little different. I would like to see the monsters tag team it at times, and have certain ones run away if they sustain a high amount damage.

Here's a "for instance" scenario: As you walk into in Hyrule Field (TP), some Bokoblin archers would shoot at you from a hill in the distance to draw your attention, while a Lizalfos sneaks up behind you. You have a relatively exciting battle with it, and you injure it. He starts howling, and a few more Lizalfos appear from a nearby cave. Depending on the situation, they may all charge and attack you, or the wounded one might limp off back home. However, the next time you are in the area, the wounded one will return, and attack in an even more vicious way, and with several friends.

At this point, I'm just rambling on, but that's just one possibility. Think about it- several of these creatures could stalk you, and you wouldn't even know it until they were upon you. If you pay attention, though, you could see signs/hints around. Perhaps tracks, lack of peaceful wildlife, etc.

I'm not saying what they should or shouldn't have, but think about the possibilities here!

[Kitsu]

Here's a "for instance" scenario: As you walk into in Hyrule Field (TP), some Bokoblin archers would shoot at you from a hill in the distance to draw your attention, while a Lizalfos sneaks up behind you. You have a relatively exciting battle with it, and you injure it. He starts howling, and a few more Lizalfos appear from a nearby cave. Depending on the situation, they may all charge and attack you, or the wounded one might limp off back home. However, the next time you are in the area, the wounded one will return, and attack in an even more vicious way, and with several friends.

I rather like that idea, I think it would make the game much more interesting, add a tad of personality and character to the enemies, so to speak.

I think doing something of this nature also allows for a whole new realm of possibilities. Adding larger caves with more intelligent enemies and animal tracks (as you mentioned) and so forth, just to name a few things. I think things like this would really add to the game and make it more interesting and fun to play.

[madslayer333]

/They should only increase the AI of the bosses and a few enimies. It would be a little too hard forsome people or children and they would lose some money that they can use to make better games.

[Clucluclu]

Sounds good, but I think that if they ran away after being severely damaged, I think I would get seriously pissed.

[Master Kokiri 9]

If the monsters didn't hesitate and there were more of them attacking you at once, the game would be so much harder.

Back in the ALttP days, as soon as enemies saw you they charged at you. Now-a-days we have enemies who stalk you, but have no defenses. They carry shields, but they do NOT know how to use them.

Yeah it would be harder but it would be better harder. And second you forgot the dinalfos of Tp. They are covered from head to toe in armor and have a shield which they use if you try to slash at them.

[octorok74]

Whoa, a Darknut or Iron Knuckle with artificial intelligence, good bye Link. It sounds like a great idea. Although if you give a Redead AI, Link would probably run in fear.

[Alter]

Whoa, a Darknut or Iron Knuckle with artificial intelligence, good bye Link. It sounds like a great idea. Although if you give a Redead AI, Link would probably run in fear.

Well, of course he'd run... I'd run. I mean, perhaps his fear would slow him down at times, like when progressing through a dungeon.

There could also be an adrenaline factor. During boss fights and such.

But the point about the redead is an interesting one. They'd be enemies which are relatively mindless, but they like to attack in groups. I think that they should give all enemies and characters a bit more personality and habits.

[ottobot]

i think they should give enemies better AI. not all enimies though. as others have said, just the -fos and darknuts. it would be awesomely hard :devil:.

[Ignis]

One thing I'd like to see are enemy corpses remaining in the area for at least some time. The smoke animation doesn't do it. If the corpses remain there, the player may do stuff like throwing it at the river for a certain cause, etc. Fun stuff. :)

[Durion]

I'd really love to see this in a future Zelda, AI that actually strategy, More realistic healing and hunting strategies.

There is already small amounts of this, Examples being Keese usually hang around in groups ready to attack but that isn't really good enough. I really want to see hard to beat enemies using real life strategies in the games. The current enemies die to easily, don't heal at all (I would like to see a system like CoD 4 introduced for them) and just move around aimlessly trying to hurt you.

It would be good to see them more realistically injured, so if you hit them in a certain place it becomes limp and weak. So if you hit them in the arm they'd be unable to use it for fighting effectively for a small period of time (that mixing in with the health regen over time).

I would like to see more of this incorperated into future Zeldas, it would make it more interesting as well =D

[Alex_Da_Great]

Yeah, I would like a bit of a challenge with the monsters instead of the dumb ones where you can kill in a few sword slashes. It would be cool if a whole pack start chasing after you but sometimes it's crap if you are low in health...

[Mike Pothier]

Well, Link was always portrayed as several tiers above your average mook. It makes sense he can sleepwalk his way through Hyrule field and not get scratched by moblin/bublins/whatever is currently haunting the landscape.

But for enemies like Darknuts, I would certainly embrace a more in depth fighting system, especially when you bring consider the idea of fighting off whole groups of them.

Still, its a slippery slope. Zelda is not an action series, and I don't want to suddenly see Devil May Cry or God of War type fighting, as fun as they are. Its not the right series.

[Alter]

Well, Link was always portrayed as several tiers above your average mook. It makes sense he can sleepwalk his way through Hyrule field and not get scratched by moblin/bublins/whatever is currently haunting the landscape.

But for enemies like Darknuts, I would certainly embrace a more in depth fighting system, especially when you bring consider the idea of fighting off whole groups of them.

Still, its a slippery slope. Zelda is not an action series, and I don't want to suddenly see Devil May Cry or God of War type fighting, as fun as they are. Its not the right series.

I agree with that, but I want to see realism.

What I think would be a great idea is having Hylian Knights get in on the action. Maybe even a small battle where Link comes to their rescue. Have fighting NPCs which can die or be saved, etc.

I want more open ended-ness and options which change outcomes.

[Quazaar]

If the monsters didn't hesitate and there were more of them attacking you at once, the game would be so much harder.

Back in the ALttP days, as soon as enemies saw you they charged at you. Now-a-days we have enemies who stalk you, but have no defenses. They carry shields, but they do NOT know how to use them.
I was playing Twilight Princess and I noticed that when you attack a stalfos they raise their sheild up to defend them selfs

[athenian200]

I'd like some advanced A.I. for dungeon enemies (especially bosses and mini-bosses), but it would be just a little too much to deal with on the overworld.

After all, dungeons are supposed to be the places where anyone but Link would die in seconds. I want to be able to reach the dungeons without much hassle, but then be challenged upon entry.

[Xinnamin]

I just want enemies who aren't blatantly idiotic. I mean, I distinctly remember a room in TP's City in the Sky where there were two Lizardfoes standing on seperate platforms surrounded by an abyss. I snipe one with a bomb arrow and the other commits suicide by walking off the edge of the platform while going over to investigate the noise my bomb arrow made. Is it too much to make the enemies realize that they're not supposed to walk where there's no ground?

Also, somewhere earlier in this thread someone mentioned wanting enemies that change their tactics once their weak spot has been found. I definitely agree that bosses and minibosses need to be able to do that. It makes me think of Malladus (stop reading now if you don't want to be spoiled on how to beat him) during the final phase where you have to distract him so Zelda can shoot him with a Light Arrow. You'd think that after the first shot he'd realize he needs to focus more on Zelda, but it never got any harder to distract him. I think at the very least bosses and minibosses need to be given proper fighting abilities since at this point, their huge size, terrifying roar, or frightfully epic appearance only serve to make them all the more pathetic when most players can kill them in five minutes on their first try.

[Tom]

Do you know that game called "Fable: The Lost Chapters"?
Well, besides being an awesome title for the PC, this game had great AI in it, it really did.
This is, to my eyes, something that would only bring good stuff to the Zelda series, the AI increasement.
It turns every boring Deku Baba battle into really well planned strategy war that will make each enemy look like a mini-boss.

[yann]

Haha, all these ideas are awesome!
Maybe something else could be that the enemies set sophisticated traps for you. I don't mean pitfall's that would one hit KO you, just something that could stun you or send you into an overwhelming scenario.

Maybe, also enemies that can change items/weapons to best what Link wants to try fight them with, such as they use their shield if Link uses his bow, or they use a projectile if Link uses some sort of heavy melee weapon. This would certainly mean that you would have to win with more skill or use of reflexes rather than just using the right weapon at the right time.

Didn't they say that in the new Zelda Wii they're going to incorporate sword duels and what have you? Advanced AI for those enemies would certainly present a new challenge!

[Tony]

I Like the Idea of having intelligant enimies but you also need the balance of stupid ones, so it could be scary, exciting, humorous all at the same time.