Races Limitations+Missing Sage

[MOS3]

In OoT we're told that the Zoras can only leave the water for a short period of time, and that the Kokiris can not leave the forest, yet in ending sequence they're both partying at Lon Lon Ranch...what's going on there. Shouldn't the Kokiris have died the moment they left the forest? same with the Zoras.

Also, anyone knows why Rauru is not with the rest of the sages in that same sequence?:hmm:

[zeldafreak]

I don't know for the first part. Maybe they had to stay at home all because of evil.
So maybe evil was gone when Ganondorf was sealed! (Sucks, I know)

But I guess Raaru is at the Sacred Realm, watching over Ganondorf.

[Shawnogohma]

I think everyone else left the sacred realm was because they were relieved of their duty as sages, because Ganondorf was sealed away. They went on to live their lives like normal. (That might explain why the sages in TP are different. Or wait, aren't those sages protecting something different?)

Zeldafreak might be right on why Rauru stayed, though.

[Pinecove]

1. The kokiri might die from monsters if they leave the forest, not some magical force. Kokiri's can leave the forest.
2. Quote about the Zoras?
3. Rauru is either as people in this thread have said, watching Ganondorf, or he is Kaypora Gaybora in the ending.

[Shawnogohma]

Kaypora Gaybora
lol

And maybe the Kokori would die after a certain period of time of being away from the forest, same with the Zora. They probably partied for a couple of hours then went home before they died.

[Amelie]

Hmm. I never thought about this before. I just thought they were doing something cute for the ending ^^

But it might be like others said.. the Kokiri might have been safe because all the monsters were gone.. but it kind of makes it sound like they just cant leave the forest. I am really not sure. And I dont remember hearing about the Zoras not being able to leave water. Is there a link to something that explains that?

[MrMosley]

Its not really that the Kokiri "can't" leave, its just that they are protected if they stay there. Leaving makes them vulnerable to creatures which otherwise couldn't enter the Kokiri Forest. Thats the whole reason Link was taken there by his mother at a young age.

The Zora's, well, I don't really remember ever hearing they couldn't leave the water for too long. I guess being a fish would do that to ya, but this ending sequence wouldn't be the only time that theory has been contradicted. Zora's such as the shop owner in Zora's Domain never go anywhere. Then you gotta think about Majora's Mask. As Zora Link, you were never damaged for staying out of the water. And its not like they had forgotten or ignored weaknesses of the races in MM either, cause remember what happend when you went into water as Goron Link?

I always believed Rauru was Kaepora Gaebora. There is a spiritual stone that said something about him being a reincarnated sage, and seeing as how we know who all the other sages are, the good ole owl is the only one left. By the way, you can find this spiritual stone in the Sacred Forest Meadow.

[Shawnogohma]

Uh, they aren't Spiritual Stones. They're Gossip Stones.

And I doubt Kaepora Gaebora was Rauru. There isn't enough proof showing that he is. He might be one of the previous Sages before Rauru, or maybe he's the sage of something else.

[blackice_cc]

Well, my thoughts on the Kokiri not being able to leave the forest: I think that if they left, they'd just begin aging. Under the protection of the Deku tree, they do not age whatsoever, but if they left, he wouldn't be able to render them ageless. My guess is the Deku tree told them they could not leave the forest, because he was afraid they would grow old and leave forever.
And I don't remember anything about Zoras not being able to stay out of water for very long. There are several that don't go in water at all for the time that we see them, such as Lu Lu (I think) in MM (the singer of the Indigo-gos).
About Rauru... well... possibly he's protected from aging, like the Kokiri, when in the Temple of Light. It's a possibility.
And no, I highly doubt he's one and the same as Kaepora Gaebora. I mean, 'reincarnated' sage means that he'd have to have died and become an owl, which is not possible as he was present when Ganondorf was finally sealed away.

[MOS3]

mmm I was pretty sure that at some point in the game it was mentioned that Zoras couldn't leave for long periods of time. I might be mistaken though :(
And I don't think the sages went on living normal lives after all that....they do go to Death Mountain as ...how to say it......shooting stars......that doesn't look normal to me. I think they stay as sages for as long as they live....since they were sages before they knew it (they all "awaken" as a sage remember?)

[bellum]

check here (p://zeldawiki.org/kokiri) to find out , who knows it may answer your question. but I guess kokiris can only stay out of the forest for a certain amount of time and that they must return in that time period or they're toast.

[lonely_moon]

Well, the Kokiri thing is fairly easy to explain. It may not be a case of "If you go out, you will die because the magic in the forest keeps you alive.", it's probably just the fact that they're innocent children who don't know how to protect themselves.

I don't remember anything being said in OoT about the Zoras not surviving out of water for long periods of time. It's true in TP, though, which is rather odd, and something I can't explain. Did they evolve somehow? Any ideas?

And yeah, Rauru probably had some Sage of Light business to attend to.

[bellum]

I think that the kokiri couldn't leave the forest beacause Ganon put a curse on them,since link got rid of Ganondorf, the curse was lifted,therefore kokiriri's can now leave the forest, very simple, aye.

I guess Rauru's not a party animal like the rest of 'em;)

[Chris]

There has never been a quote from the game that says that the Zora cannot leave the water for a certain amount of time. Think about it this way, Zora Link could stay out of water for up to three days and probably even longer if the Menacing Moon wasn't a problem.

As for the Kokiri, they can leave, but they arn't protected from creatures any more (From Darklink01). So, they could leave the forest since all the evil was defeated and there was absolutely no danger. This would easily explain why there are Kokiri at the party.

I hope this helps you a bit with the thread.

[Axle the Beast]

There is little information telling us exactly how the Kokiri die if they leave the forest. As many people have already stated, it is likely that monsters will kill them. There is also another theory that they just start aging if they leave the forest.

Don't know about Zoras, never heard that in the game, as far as I can remember anyway. But even if it is true, it could simply be that they only left the water for a short time to party.

As for Rauru, he was always trapped in the Sacred Realm. He never left it once, except when he appeared in Ganon's Castle (and I believe that he wasn't actually there, I think it was just some image of him that he created.) As for him being Kaepora Gaebora... I highly doubt it. The Gossip Stone stated that the owl was a reincarnation of an ANCIENT sage. Rauru doesn't strike me as ancient.

[Zemen]

There is little information telling us exactly how the Kokiri die if they leave the forest. As many people have already stated, it is likely that monsters will kill them. There is also another theory that they just start aging if they leave the forest.

just because the kokiri never age doesnt mean they never die. i would assume that they still die after they reach a certain age (although they dont look that age), but you do have a good theory here. i believe that if they leave the forest its more likely that monsters kill them than it is likely that they just age to death really fast.


Don't know about Zoras, never heard that in the game, as far as I can remember anyway. But even if it is true, it could simply be that they only left the water for a short time to party.

the Zora can leave the water. in the Zora domain in OoT there are plenty of them that are not in the water but just standing around it. also, when Link turns into a Zora in MM he can walk around on land as long as he wants. i hope this answers questions on whether Zora can leave water or not.


As for Rauru, he was always trapped in the Sacred Realm. He never left it once, except when he appeared in Ganon's Castle (and I believe that he wasn't actually there, I think it was just some image of him that he created.) As for him being Kaepora Gaebora... I highly doubt it. The Gossip Stone stated that the owl was a reincarnation of an ANCIENT sage. Rauru doesn't strike me as ancient.

i also dont believe the owl is Rauru. that would have been explained in the game somehow. as for how ancient Rauru is, we dont know how old is he is or if he even ages as a sage so he could very well be ancient but i still dont believe he is the owl.

[DvSag]

Pulling the Master Sword, meeting Rauru (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC_QBnAUsjw&feature=related)

He says he IS an ancient sage, so since we have no other information on a single other ancient sage, I, for one, believe that Kaepora Gaebora is Rauru. It's hard to assume that old KG is someone we've never met before, but then again we can't really be sure.

That's what I love about Zelda, everything is hinted at and insinuated, but most things are never actually revealed. One of the few game series to date that actually makes you think.

[Axle the Beast]

just because the kokiri never age doesnt mean they never die. i would assume that they still die after they reach a certain age (although they dont look that age), but you do have a good theory here. i believe that if they leave the forest its more likely that monsters kill them than it is likely that they just age to death really fast.
Possibly. That's not generally how you see it done in fiction, though, and I don't personally find it too likely. I think they'd either stay young forever and be immortal, or age extremely slowly. That's just me though.


the Zora can leave the water. in the Zora domain in OoT there are plenty of them that are not in the water but just standing around it. also, when Link turns into a Zora in MM he can walk around on land as long as he wants. i hope this answers questions on whether Zora can leave water or not.
Yeah... I was skeptical of that being true or not, I was just offering possible explanations if it were true. But for the record, he was saying that Zora couldn't leave water for long. In Zora's Domain, they were standing out of water, but were very near it, so theoretically it could still be true (with Zora Link being because they had to make it that way for you to be able to play.) I don't believe it personally. I see little evidence suggesting that Zora can't leave water for very long.


He says he IS an ancient sage, so since we have no other information on a single other ancient sage, I, for one, believe that Kaepora Gaebora is Rauru. It's hard to assume that old KG is someone we've never met before, but then again we can't really be sure.

That's what I love about Zelda, everything is hinted at and insinuated, but most things are never actually revealed. One of the few game series to date that actually makes you think.
Hm, I guess you're right there. But the Gossip Stone indicates that the owl is a reincarnation of the sage. To me, it didn't seem that Rauru was dead. He didn't have a physical form, it seemed (it didn't seem like any of the Sages did,) but he wasn't dead. At least from what I could see.

I suppose it's possible, but I personally doubt it greatly.

Yeah, I do find that interesting myself. ^^ Because of that, I'm not usually one to believe too strongly in anything that isn't specifically stated.

[Zemen]

He says he IS an ancient sage, so since we have no other information on a single other ancient sage, I, for one, believe that Kaepora Gaebora is Rauru.

also remember that before the 6 (or 7) other sages were awakened there had to have been sages before them. if new sages needed to be awakened then that means there were old ones that died so the owl could easily be one of the ancient sages that get replaced by the new sages.

[DvSag]

Hmmm... I wasn't aware that the Gossip Stone used the term "reincarnation". Thanks for that tidbit AtB.

Unless KG is the physical form of Rauru, while the Rauru you meet in the Chamber of Sages is just his spirit then... then... uhhh... nah, nevermind. I'm convinced it's a sage we've never met before. It's odd that we don't know who he is, but do you think we have ever met him before in a previous game? Or that we'll ever meet him in future games?

[Zemen]

Hmmm... I wasn't aware that the Gossip Stone used the term "reincarnation". Thanks for that tidbit AtB.

Unless KG is the physical form of Rauru, while the Rauru you meet in the Chamber of Sages is just his spirit then... then... uhhh... nah, nevermind. I'm convinced it's a sage we've never met before. It's odd that we don't know who he is, but do you think we have ever met him before in a previous game? Or that we'll ever meet him in future games?

couldnt have met him in a previous game. OoT is supposedly the first game with the exception of some people putting MC first and even then no sages were in MC so unless they make a game that takes place before OoT and relates directly to OoT we may never meet the sage its supposed to be.

[UsayEldaZay]

THIS SHOULD'VE BEEN MARKED AS A SPOILER :X

ERRRRGGGG now I know what happens!! -Sheilds eyes-
:( :( :(

I just think that the sages can leave because they are some what immortal now to the little rules that applied to them before. They are sages, and sages can do anything!

[Zemen]

THIS SHOULD'VE BEEN MARKED AS A SPOILER :X

ERRRRGGGG now I know what happens!! -Sheilds eyes-
:( :( :(

I just think that the sages can leave because they are some what immortal now to the little rules that applied to them before. They are sages, and sages can do anything!

The fact that they have to rely on a teenager/kid to save the world and the fact that previous sages were killed by Ganondorf is a pretty good indicator that the sages CAN'T do whatever they want.

[Smertios]

Well, let's go by parts.

1. The kokiri can leave the forest, as we see in the end of OoT. Also there is a hidden gossip stone behind the GDT that says a kokiri has left the forest already and is still alive.

2. The zoras can live out of water. One stood in front of Death Mountain during most of TP after all.

3. IDK about Rauru. He never left the SR during OoT. I don's see why he would do it in the end...

[Neon]

I'd say Zoras can't stay out of water for too long... but it's not like they would stay out of water too long. Besides, you could always just pour a pale of water over them.

[UsayEldaZay]

This still should be marked as a spoiler!! Anyways, the sages can do anything within reason. No they can't save Hyrule because that's LINK'S job. He's the Hero! The sages are only immortal to those ''little rules'' like leaving the sacred realm or where ever. I don't have a full explanation but I think in Rauru's situation, he just waited until Link saved Hyrule and then had a little party :). But I think Smertio's reasoning is most accurate.

[Zemen]

I'd say Zoras can't stay out of water for too long... but it's not like they would stay out of water too long. Besides, you could always just pour a pale of water over them.

In MM, Link can walk around on land all he wants as a Zora. It has been said thats probably just for gameplay purposes but lets keep in mind that it has NEVER been stated anywhere that they can only leave water for a short while so with that in mind and the fact that Zora Link could walk around on land, I would say they can leave water all they want.


This still should be marked as a spoiler!! Anyways, the sages can do anything within reason. No they can't save Hyrule because that's LINK'S job. He's the Hero! The sages are only immortal to those ''little rules'' like leaving the sacred realm or where ever. I don't have a full explanation but I think in Rauru's situation, he just waited until Link saved Hyrule and then had a little party :). But I think Smertio's reasoning is most accurate.

I don't see how you can think that they can do whatever they want when they rely on a mortal to save the world. I understand you think that they dont do it because its Links job, but they do VERY little to help him out. They give him medallions that literally serve no purpose in the game.

[StalfosSlayer]

I think Rauru can not leave the temple, I also think the Kokirir just always thought they couldn't leave because those who do never return. Also as to MC being before OoT I dont see why not, as far as I know it was stated that OoT was first when it was released. No reason why they can't make an eariler one afterwards.

[Caleb, Of Asui]

In MM, Link can walk around on land all he wants as a Zora. It has been said thats probably just for gameplay purposes but lets keep in mind that it has NEVER been stated anywhere that they can only leave water for a short while so with that in mind and the fact that Zora Link could walk around on land, I would say they can leave water all they want.

You make a very good point. There isn't anywhere in the game that says Zoras can't be out of water for long. I've always thought they could be wherever they want, in or out of water. Maybe it's reasonable to say that being out of water for a very long period of time wouldn't be very good for a Zora, but it's not going to kill it for a long while.

As for Kokiris, I'm of the opinion (though haven't always been, like with the Zoras) that they don't immediately die when they leave the forest, but it makes it possible for them to be able to die and die eventually. I'm not going to say whether that makes them grow up or not. The Kokiris are seen at the big party thing during the Adult Link ending, but the Koroks in The Wind Waker don't seem to have any trace of having grown up.

[StalfosSlayer]

Maybe Zora area are like dolphins and whales, the can only be under water for a certain amount of time. granted a long time at that though.

[linebyline]

Didn't the Ocarina of Time manual say that Zora "are capable of venturing out of the water for short periods of time" or something very close to that? Anyway, I'd think the problem wouldn't be breathing so much as just drying out. Which may take a couple of days (or more, depending on the awesomeness and/or importance to the plot of a given zora).

And from the "I may be remembering this completely wrong" file: Wasn't Ralis in trouble in TP partially because he was far from the nearest water source, so they took him to Kakariko to be near the Goron hot springs and the watery Zora graveyard? (Of course, Renado the medicine man was a deciding factor, but you know what I mean.)

[Avia Rayne]

1. My brother and I developed this theory on the Kokiris back in 1998 when we first got OoT: They turn into the Stalchildren out in Hyrule field when they leave the forest. I don't know where we got that theory (it's been like, 11 years, and I was just a 4th grader then!!) but I think it partially came from the Kokiri girl during the trading quest that gives you the Poacher's Saw for the Odd Mushroom. She said that those that get lost, turn into Stalfos, or something like that. I know she was most likely talking about Hylians, but since the Kokiri are an enchanted race created by the Deku Tree, maybe when they leave the forest, they turn into monsters too because they are lost? Also, I think the red-haired Kokiri boy near the exit of Kokiri Forest says something about leaving the forest when Child Link leaves...I'll check it the next time I play OoT just to be sure.

2. The Zora Question: I really believe they can be away from water for how ever much they want. Even though you always see them in water, I think they work more like frogs instead of fish. I also believe that Ralis wasn't injured from being away from water, but because Zora's Domain was attacked by the Twilit Messengers in TP. I believe that was the same time his mother was killed. I'm pretty sure Telma said something like that, but it would help him out if he was near water. I could be wrong on that too, but that's what I remember.

3. Is KG really Rauru? I don't think so. To me, it seems like they are completely different sages. I mean, Rauru was all too happy to inform Link about his destiny and his place in this world. I would think that when Rauru was telling Link about his sagehood, he would have mentioned something like, "I knew you were the one when I saw you leave the forest" or something like that. Can't guarantee it, but it seems like that's a running theme with the Zelda games. Zelda revealed herself as Sheik in OoT, King of Red Lions revealed himself as Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule in WW, Midna revealed herself (sorta) at the end of TP that she was the Princess of the Twilight. Even if Rauru didn't mention it when Link first woke in the Sacred Realm, if he was KG, I really believe he would have said something in his last meeting with Link at the Desert Collossus after he claimed the Silver Gauntlets.

[Zemen]

1. My brother and I developed this theory on the Kokiris back in 1998 when we first got OoT: They turn into the Stalchildren out in Hyrule field when they leave the forest. I don't know where we got that theory (it's been like, 11 years, and I was just a 4th grader then!!) but I think it partially came from the Kokiri girl during the trading quest that gives you the Poacher's Saw for the Odd Mushroom. She said that those that get lost, turn into Stalfos, or something like that. I know she was most likely talking about Hylians, but since the Kokiri are an enchanted race created by the Deku Tree, maybe when they leave the forest, they turn into monsters too because they are lost? Also, I think the red-haired Kokiri boy near the exit of Kokiri Forest says something about leaving the forest when Child Link leaves...I'll check it the next time I play OoT just to be sure.

At the end of OoT, during the credits when everyone is celebrating, there are Kokiri people who are celebrating outside of the forest. They can travel outside of the forest.

The most obvious and simple of all theories is that when they leave the forest they age like any normal person. With that in mind, if they left the forest for a few hours or days then they wouldn't really be affected but if they were away from the forest for years then they would show obvious changes.


3. Is KG really Rauru? I don't think so. To me, it seems like they are completely different sages. I mean, Rauru was all too happy to inform Link about his destiny and his place in this world. I would think that when Rauru was telling Link about his sagehood, he would have mentioned something like, "I knew you were the one when I saw you leave the forest" or something like that. Can't guarantee it, but it seems like that's a running theme with the Zelda games. Zelda revealed herself as Sheik in OoT, King of Red Lions revealed himself as Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule in WW, Midna revealed herself (sorta) at the end of TP that she was the Princess of the Twilight. Even if Rauru didn't mention it when Link first woke in the Sacred Realm, if he was KG, I really believe he would have said something in his last meeting with Link at the Desert Collossus after he claimed the Silver Gauntlets.

One of the gossip stones tells you that KG is a reincarnation of an ancient sage. That means that he is a dead sage. Rauru is still alive, so he is not KG.

[Avia Rayne]

At the end of OoT, during the credits when everyone is celebrating, there are Kokiri people who are celebrating outside of the forest. They can travel outside of the forest.

The most obvious and simple of all theories is that when they leave the forest they age like any normal person. With that in mind, if they left the forest for a few hours or days then they wouldn't really be affected but if they were away from the forest for years then they would show obvious changes.


You could always say that the Deku Tree never wanted them to leave the forest, but since he died and was reborn as a completely different tree that the "leaving the forest" curse was lifted by him. This is why speculation is bad, because no one nows for sure.

[linebyline]

2. The Zora Question: I really believe they can be away from water for how ever much they want. Even though you always see them in water, I think they work more like frogs instead of fish. I also believe that Ralis wasn't injured from being away from water, but because Zora's Domain was attacked by the Twilit Messengers in TP. I believe that was the same time his mother was killed. I'm pretty sure Telma said something like that, but it would help him out if he was near water. I could be wrong on that too, but that's what I remember.

That's about how I remember it. Being away from water wasn't the cause of his injury/illness, but it was making it worse. One of these days I'll play through it again to be sure.


The most obvious and simple of all theories is that when [Kokiri]leave the forest they age like any normal person. With that in mind, if they left the forest for a few hours or days then they wouldn't really be affected but if they were away from the forest for years then they would show obvious changes.

Makes sense to me.

I did always wonder how they got to be ten-or-twelve-looking, though. Does the anti-aging thing just kick in at a certain age? If not, it should have been pretty obvious to them that Link wasn't one of them, since they watched him grow from a baby into a kid.

[Zemen]

I did always wonder how they got to be ten-or-twelve-looking, though. Does the anti-aging thing just kick in at a certain age? If not, it should have been pretty obvious to them that Link wasn't one of them, since they watched him grow from a baby into a kid.

I think they all assumed he wasn't a kokiri anyway because he never had a fairy. Even then, maybe they don't even know how they get way. The GDT could have told them he is a kokiri and not knowing how they were created they could just assume that Link's being a baby is how they were created.