Perhaps I'm crazy: A timeline theory from hell

[Pinecove]

Note to all: I come from ZU and am not a beginer theorist. Hold no arguments back against me. Period.

The first known thing about the timeline is:

......TWW/PH
...../
OoT
......\
........MM-TP

From there we can try to peice together some other games. Mainly:

TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA as an arc. Note that TMC can be first I agree, however I prefer to put it a bit later in the timeline for reasons which will probobly be debated in this thread.

From here we have the timeline of:


......TWW/PH(-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA)
...../
OoT
......\
........MM-TP(-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA)

Now the games we have to put in to this timeline are OoS/OoA and LoZ/AoL.

Now most people *looks over at Smertios* place OoS and OoA after ALttP, however I disagree with that.

I'm sure that all of you have played FSA. If not, I'll breif you in. In FSA there's a Trident which has a soul sealed inside of it.

In OoX (short for OoS/OoA) we see Ganon's soul being put into a Yoshiro or 'vessel' which is none other then the Trident.

......TWW/PH(-OoS/OoA-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA)
...../
OoT
......\
........MM-TP(-OoS/OoA-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA)

OoX does another thing for the timeline. FPTRRL (the tingle game) takes place in the adult timeline and explains the origins of the Subrosians hoods. Hence by proxy OoX is in the adult timeline and so is TMC FS FSA ALttP and LA.

......TWW/PH(-OoS/OoA-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA)
...../
OoT
......\
........MM-TP

The last (and perhaps hardest) games to place into the timeline are LoZ and AoL.

I won't go into details about those put there are two places for them. Either after PH and before OoX or after LoZ.

That being said, I'm sure all of you think I'm crazy at the moment, so let the debates begin.

[sign of table]

ALttP/LA) What have I told you, Pinecove? Don't wave LttP/LA around as if it is confirmed unless you want to start an LA debate.

Btw these guys think tMC and FS is first.
In OoX (short for OoS/OoA) we see Ganon's soul being put into a Yoshiro or 'vessel' which is none other then the Trident. Not it's not. Nothing even hints or implies to it being the trident.

This is the timeline I brought here about a month ago. Except I think I did a more thorough explanation.

(Note. If you couldn't tell already. This is SoM.)

Since I already agree with you on the timeline, though, I'll try and debate against you and actually see if I can find something wrong with the timeline.

There is no explanation for the MS.

Huh. I can't find anything else wrong lol.

[Smertios]

People please don't yell at me for another ZUer arrive here. It's not my fault :P

So, onto business.
SoJ/M, I thought the only reason for OoX to be before TMC was the trident, right?

[Linkmaster]

Pinecove, everyone is a little crazy around here, and just about everyone has the timeline figured out better than me, if there even is one, so ya... :)

[Karashimu]

Note to all: I come from ZU and am not a beginer theorist. Hold no arguments back against me. Period.

Honestly... you expect no one to refute your theory just because you've been doing this awhile, or because you're from ZU? Perhaps you're not crazy, just egotistical.

[sign of table]

SoJ/M, I thought the only reason for OoX to be before TMC was the trident, right? Sort of. The oracles in tMC don't say that it HAS to go before it but it is obviously an implication. And then there is TRR.

I don't place it after LttP because then the titles would make no sense what-so-ever.
People please don't yell at me for another ZUer arrive here. It's not my fault Another? There is only on other ZUer here and that is me. And I came here before you.

[Smertios]

Honestly... you expect no one to refute your theory just because you've been doing this awhile, or because you're from ZU? Perhaps you're not crazy, just egotistical.

He is both, just ignore the egoism/overselfconfidence and focus on the crazyness :P
And the ZD theorizing community has been around for longer than the ZU community.


Sort of. The oracles in tMC don't say that it HAS to go before it but it is obviously an implication. And then there is TRR.

I see. TRR doesn't hint anything though...


I don't place it after LttP because then the titles would make no sense what-so-ever. Another? There is only on other ZUer here and that is me. And I came here before you.

I know, but if they are to blame anyone, i'd rather it was you, not me :P

[Matthew_79]

Honestly... you expect no one to refute your theory just because you've been doing this awhile, or because you're from ZU? Perhaps you're not crazy, just egotistical.

He is saying dont hold back your arguments o.O. By no means does this make him egotistical. He is asking for CC in an original manner.

I doubt anyone here considers that tingle game to be cannon. It is a spin-off and nothing more.

How is LoZ and Aol hard to place? LoZ is the only game in where gannon dies, and Aol is a sequal. So it plain that they go at the end of the timeline

[Smertios]

How is LoZ and Aol hard to place? LoZ is the only game in where gannon dies, and Aol is a sequal. So it plain that they go at the end of the timeline

Ganon dies in LttP too. And Aonuma confirmed that he was dead after TWW. And he dies in TP too...

[sign of table]

^And he dies in OoX.

LoZ/AoL Ganon is a pure lost cause.

[Pinecove]

Btw these guys think tMC and FS is first.

That being the case I can make them believe that OoT is the SW screwing over their timelines.


Not it's not. Nothing even hints or implies to it being the trident.

Well it can't be Zelda.


There is no explanation for the MS.

What have I told you about OoX?


I see. TRR doesn't hint anything though...

Exept OoX coming in the AT.


I doubt anyone here considers that tingle game to be cannon. It is a spin-off and nothing more.

Then you're ignoring Developer intent, plain and simple.


How is LoZ and Aol hard to place? LoZ is the only game in where gannon dies, and Aol is a sequal. So it plain that they go at the end of the timeline

He dies in TP, TWW, OoX and ALttP aswell. The best place to explain Ganon in for LoZ ia after TWW.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a riot already over my timeline:P

[sign of table]

What have I told you about OoX? Actually it wasn't you who came up with the Zora theory first. It was Erimgard iIrc. If it was the zora explain why it says that he was given the MS from a previous hero.

Well it can't be Zelda. Of course not. Because Twinrova failed and couldn't make Zelda the yorishiro.
He dies in TP, TWW, OoX and ALttP aswell. The best place to explain Ganon in for LoZ ia after TWW. How so? Me/Skylark's split theory is fanfic. So Ganon for early LoZ is just as bad as late LoZ. But not as bad as after TP.
I'm surprised there hasn't been a riot already over my timeline Why would there be? I already posted this exact timeline a month ago. Except with it going OoX-LA.

[Pinecove]

Actually it wasn't you who came up with the Zora theory first. It was Erimgard iIrc. If it was the zora explain why it says that he was given the MS from a previous hero.

I was the one who articilized it.


Of course not. Because Twinrova failed and couldn't make Zelda the yorishiro.

Zelda and the Yoshiro are mentioned as two different things.


How so? Me/Skylark's split theory is fanfic. So Ganon for early LoZ is just as bad as late LoZ. But not as bad as after TP.

How did those translations turn out? I got "Daimoau Ganon escapes from the dark void to kidnap Princess Zelda"

but I'm not the best expert on Japanease...

[sign of table]

Zelda and the Yoshiro are mentioned as two different things. Yet the trident isn't even mentioned.

Look at the ending cutscene. It clearly shows a blueish flame turn into Ganon's body. That blueish flame represents his spirit, obviously. So Ganon would technically be the Yorishiro. But Zelda's body would have turned into Ganon's body. So it would kinda mean Zelda is the yorishiro.
I was the one who articilized it. You didn't answer me.
How did those translations turn out? I got "Daimoau Ganon escapes from the dark void to kidnap Princess Zelda"

but I'm not the best expert on Japanease... Go over to LA and find out for yourself. But it does NOT say that Ganon escaped the DW.


Something funny I noticed.

Remember in OoT right after you beat Ganondorf he says something like. "I am the king of evil beaten by this kid" Well it seems like almost the same context is used for OoX. Ganon is defeated and says "I am the Maou of Darkness. Urgh...." then he dies right there. So maybe he thinks of himself as the Yami no Maou but people refer to him as the Daimaou. Which could work for LttP-OoX-LoZ.

[Pinecove]

Yet the trident isn't even mentioned.

Why would they say "Zelda and the yoshiro which is the Trident"?

No. They just need to explain what the hell is going on, and Link doersn't need to know that much anyways...


You didn't answer me

Sorry, I didn't see that. Because there are two Zora you can get it from.

The King, and the ancient one.


Go over to LA and find out for yourself. But it does NOT say that Ganon escaped the DW.

I don't know how to navigate LA... :(


Something funny I noticed.

Remember in OoT right after you beat Ganondorf he says something like. "I am the king of evil beaten by this kid" Well it seems like almost the same context is used for OoX. Ganon is defeated and says "I am the Maou of Darkness. Urgh...." then he is killed. So maybe he thinks of himself as the Yami no Maou but people refer to him as the Daimaou. Which could work for LttP-OoX-LoZ.

No because Ganondorf actually IS the Daimao etc.

Your point makes no sence.

If I had to choose, I would go ALttP-LoZ-OoX not ALttP-OoX-LoZ. ALttP-OoX makes almost no sence.

[sign of table]

The King, and the ancient one.
Whoa, really? What does the king say?

If I had to choose, I would go ALttP-LoZ-OoX not ALttP-OoX-LoZ. ALttP-OoX makes almost no sence. LttP to OoX makes sense. OoX would actually be the only chance for the AoL BS to make perfect sense.
I don't know how to navigate LA... God, just go to the forums and go to the storyline forum. Then go to the last page of the "Translation of Japanese Texts" thread and look for Jacensolo's response.

[Pinecove]

Whoa, really? What does the king say?

That he found it underwater :rolleyes:

[sign of table]

Can you get me the exact quote? The word underwater isn't used once in OoA.

[Pinecove]

I would love to but I have to take shower right now then watch LotR.

[sign of table]

You have to watch LotR?

Can you atleast give me some key words so I can search it?

[Pinecove]

Um...try Mermaid.

That's what the king calls you...

[sign of table]

Oh! A secret from the Zora I sent to Holodrum to find us a new domain!
You have done well! Thank you. For your reward... Yes! Lend me your
Sword! I shall sharpen it! Sharpen it? Maybe the Noble sword is the MS. The japanese text for OoX calls the Noble Sword the White sword. Could the White Sword be the MS?

The white sword is in LoZ right? That could explain why the sword in that official artwork looks so much like the MS.

[Pinecove]

...Interesting. That's very interesting. Infact, with that I'm now 100% certain of my placement of OoX and LoZ.

[sign of table]

The White Sword in LoZ would make no sense though. You wouldn't be able to use OoX to get the MS.

This would work awesomely for the late LoZ placement.
*Goes off to develop another elaborate theory*

[Pinecove]

Not really.

The MS makes no sence after ALttP.

[sign of table]

It would make even less sense for LoZ-OoX--LttP.

[Pinecove]

Not really.

It either explains the forgery of a new MS or the finding of the old one.

Either way OoX works for the retreival of the MS.

[sign of table]

Now I realize it does. But LoZ-OoX at the beginning of the AT after tWW makes no sense if the white sword is the MS.

I can explain the MS for OoX after LttP.

[Pinecove]

Why ever not?

And only if you take two methods of the MS as Canon.

[sign of table]

Because then there is no way for the MS to ever get up out of the ocean. Actually I'm beginning to think that the LttP-OoX MS works better.

You travel in the lost woods of OoS and get the White Sword. In OoA you have Farore give you the noble sword from OoS then you go to the Zora king and he sharpens and upgrades white/noble sword into the Master Sword. Then that gets put some where and it depowers when LoZ Link gets it.

It makes perfect sense and uses evidence.

[Pinecove]

Not really.

You can use OoX to justify that the Ms WAS found after the flood.

If anything, what you've discovered proves LoZ-OoX.

[sign of table]

It doesn't prove it. It works for late LoZ too, btw.

[Zemen]

Sharpen it? Maybe the Noble sword is the MS. The japanese text for OoX calls the Noble Sword the White sword. Could the White Sword be the MS?

The white sword is in LoZ right? That could explain why the sword in that official artwork looks so much like the MS.

the white sword is what the sword in MC is called before it gets its power..

[Pinecove]

Precicly.

The "White sword" seems to simply be a mid level sword.

On this topic: If no-one responds then I'm going to be thinking that I've won...

[Zemen]

Precicly.

The "White sword" seems to simply be a mid level sword.

On this topic: If no-one responds then I'm going to be thinking that I've won...

its not necessarily a mid-level sword. in LoZ, the white sword is the second most powerful sword. that doesnt sound like a mid-level sword to me. in MC, we have no idea how powerful or not powerful it really is because there is no other sword to compare it to except the picori blade which is the same sword only with more power. its kind of like the MS in a way. the master sword isnt truly the master sword til you restore all power to it. the white sword is almost equivalent to the non powered up MS.

by the way, its really arrogant to say you "won" an argument. you could be wrong and you could be right but dont assume that just because no one will respond that youve won. you can think youre right all you want but then someone could come along and completely destroy your ideas like im about to try to.

im really only going to say one thing. the main reason i dont put OoX on the AT is because koume and kotake are alive in the game. they have a big role in that game and if everyone remembers correctly, they were killed by ADULT LINK which means they would NOT be alive on the adult timeline. seeing as how they are alive in OoX, i put that game in the child timeline because that is the only timeline they would still be alive in.

i had this argument before with someone who told me they could have been ressurected but i find that highly unlikely for one reason. the only character that we know of that has ever been ressurected/brought back from what seems to be death is Ganon/dorf. even Vaati wasnt ressurected, he was just sealed away and then unsealed, but the only character to defy death in any game is Ganon/dorf. koume and kotake are pretty insignificant characters except for in that game when they play a slightly larger role. the fact that they are trying to ressurect ganon leads me to believe that they had some previous connection with him. in OoT they are his serrogate mothers so obviously they care about him. it would make sense that later on in time they would try to bring him back but they cant do that if they, themselves, are dead.

i believe it was SoJ who said in another thread that after the creators make a zelda game, they DO pay attention to tiny details that would affect a timeline and they they go back and change things to correspond to a timeline. well this is not just some tiny detail. the fact that the two Gerudo witches are still alive leads me to believe that the creators didnt overlook the fact that in one timeline they are dead.

my theory has always been that you can put OoX last on either timeline, but the fact that koume and kotake are in the game makes me believe it goes last on the childtimeline. youre gonna argue why it cant go after TP (which is what i would put it after) but my rebuttal is that there could be games coming out that take place after TP and before OoX. i would say that OoX takes place a good 300-400 years after TP at least.

everything said about the theory of timelines is just that, theory. unless you make a completely and obviously impossible timeline, just about anything could be right. in the future i would strongly suggest that you dont say youve won if no one responds because then no one will respond just out of pure disrespect for you.

[Pinecove]

its not necessarily a mid-level sword. in LoZ, the white sword is the second most powerful sword. that doesnt sound like a mid-level sword to me. in MC, we have no idea how powerful or not powerful it really is because there is no other sword to compare it to except the picori blade which is the same sword only with more power. its kind of like the MS in a way. the master sword isnt truly the master sword til you restore all power to it. the white sword is almost equivalent to the non powered up MS.

You're missing the point.

All white swords are the second level swords in Zelda games. Period.


by the way, its really arrogant to say you "won" an argument. you could be wrong and you could be right but dont assume that just because no one will respond that youve won. you can think youre right all you want but then someone could come along and completely destroy your ideas like im about to try to.

Yeah...well noone was responding so I thought, that might get some attention...


im really only going to say one thing. the main reason i dont put OoX on the AT is because koume and kotake are alive in the game. they have a big role in that game and if everyone remembers correctly, they were killed by ADULT LINK which means they would NOT be alive on the adult timeline. seeing as how they are alive in OoX, i put that game in the child timeline because that is the only timeline they would still be alive in.

1. Ganondorf has been brought back about abajillion times why not Twinrova once?
2. Twinrova looks rather ghostlike in OoX?
2. If you'll recall Twinrava says that she'll be back to haunt you after you "kill" her in OoT.


even Vaati wasnt ressurected, he was just sealed away and then unsealed,

Vaati may or may not be deathl in LA.


my theory has always been that you can put OoX last on either timeline, but the fact that koume and kotake are in the game makes me believe it goes last on the childtimeline. youre gonna argue why it cant go after TP (which is what i would put it after) but my rebuttal is that there could be games coming out that take place after TP and before OoX. i would say that OoX takes place a good 300-400 years after TP at least.

Yeah that's a great way to ignore evidance. By not responding to it.


everything said about the theory of timelines is just that, theory. unless you make a completely and obviously impossible timeline, just about anything could be right. in the future i would strongly suggest that you dont say youve won if no one responds because then no one will respond just out of pure disrespect for you.

Excuse me? Look I didn't mean to come off rude when I said that statement but you're being quite rude right now. You ignored all my evidance, didn't reply to anything and then called my timeline impossible? And then you called me rude!?!?

Wtf dude. reply to the original post because so far you've proved nothing.

[Matthew_79]

Why would twinrova be reserected? No one cares about them except maby ganondorf beacuse they are his "mothers". And he is supposed to be evil.

Also ganon does not get reserected a bajilian times he gets traped and imprisoned alot though. he dies twice (once in adult and once in child), and the fact that in OoX they are trying to revive him makes it fit perfictly at the end of child timeline. LoZ is a known death and according to your timeline TP is the other.

[Linkmaster]

You're missing the point.

All white swords are the second level swords in Zelda games. Period.



Yeah...well noone was responding so I thought, that might get some attention...



1. Ganondorf has been brought back about abajillion times why not Twinrova once?
2. Twinrova looks rather ghostlike in OoX?
2. If you'll recall Twinrava says that she'll be back to haunt you after you "kill" her in OoT.



Vaati may or may not be deathl in LA.



Yeah that's a great way to ignore evidance. By not responding to it.



Excuse me? Look I didn't mean to come off rude when I said that statement but you're being quite rude right now. You ignored all my evidance, didn't reply to anything and then called my timeline impossible? And then you called me rude!?!?

Wtf dude. reply to the original post because so far you've proved nothing.

...I am sorry to but in, Pinecove, but...you are being kind of rude...if no one wants to post, they don't have to, and the fact that you are coming to this site, pushing theries on us, and expecting us not to argue about it a little and comment about it, then you are very sadly mistaken my friend. Also, you are just being a bit of a hothead... You are not always right you know.

[Smertios]

Why would twinrova be reserected? No one cares about them except maby ganondorf beacuse they are his "mothers". And he is supposed to be evil.

Well, they wouldn't be able to live that long after OoT. They would have to come back after TP too, so they would need to ressurect/reborn wherever you place OoX.


Also ganon does not get reserected a bajilian times he gets traped and imprisoned alot though. he dies twice (once in adult and once in child), and the fact that in OoX they are trying to revive him makes it fit perfictly at the end of child timeline. LoZ is a known death and according to your timeline TP is the other.

Let's see, ganon dies in TWW (aonuma confirmed that), in LttP, in LoZ, in TP and in OoX. There are only two timelines, so he would have to ressurect at some point (or be born again)...

[Matthew_79]

Twinrova was already 600 some years old in OoT. Whats to say they didnt live in the child timeline?

[Pinecove]

Why would twinrova be reserected? No one cares about them except maby ganondorf beacuse they are his "mothers". And he is supposed to be evil.

Great way to ignore: "We'll be back to haunt you"

Plus the FPTRRL references...


dies twice

That is false. He dies in TWW TP ALttP LoZ and OoX.


and the fact that in OoX they are trying to revive him makes it fit perfictly at the end of child timeline

Or after TWW. OoX works anytime after Ganon is called a Daimaou and is dead.


...I am sorry to but in, Pinecove, but...you are being kind of rude...if no one wants to post, they don't have to, and the fact that you are coming to this site, pushing theries on us, and expecting us not to argue about it a little and comment about it, then you are very sadly mistaken my friend. Also, you are just being a bit of a hothead... You are not always right you know.

I get that alot but people just ignoring evidance is what's getting on my nerves...

[Zemen]

as mentione before, it makes no sense for twinrova to be ressurected. you saying that ganondorf dies multiple times only strengthens my argument. koume and kotake were very old in OoT so why couldnt they live on through the childtimeline until the OoX series? ganondorf has died multiple times and is the only one to be ressurected from death as far as any game has shown us. also, in WW when the two witches die, they have halos over their heads. they definitely dont have halos over their heads in OoX so that is further evidence that they arent ghosts as you assumed they were. your logic is pretty flawed here.

also as stated before, ganon/dorf dies at the end of TP on the child timeline. koume and kotake are still alive in the child timeline. in OoX they try to ressurect ganon. it does fit perfectly after TP. it could take place quite a bit of time after TP seeing as how its obvious that the two witches can live for a long time.

[sign of table]

Sure, but remember, when OoX came out there wasn't a split timeline. So Twinrova had come back from the dead, anyway.

OoX almost fits after TP. My problems with that are: The TRR references, Ganon's title. Ganon did not claim the title of Daimaou until he touched the triforce in the IW/SW. In TP he is called... (damn I don't remember. I'm almost positive the japanese called him gerudo theif or something like that) which does not fit with OoX. The state of the triforce makes very little sense, and the fact that the land is shown growing from the past of OoA to the present. Just like the Deku Tree's plan.

[Zemen]

true there was no split timeline but as you stated before, they do go back and change details to make them fit in a timeline which very well could have happened with OoT. in other words they could have created koume and kotake in that game to correspond to past games that werent made with a timeline. they would make those characters fit with a different game. if they pay as close attention to detail as you say they do, then they would have had koume and kotake die when link was a kid and not an adult in OoT.

also, as i stated, i would say that OoX takes place LONG after TP which means things could have happened inbetween that we just dont know about yet.

[Smertios]

Different incarnations of Link appear in different games.
Different incarnations of Zelda appear in different games.
Different incarnations of Impa appear in different games.
Different incarnations of Tingle appear in different games.
Different incarnations of Malon appear in different games.
Different incarnations of Talon appear in different games.
Different incarnations of Ingo appear in different games.
Different incarnations of Koume and Kotake appear in different games

It's not proven that the twinrova from OoX is the same one from OoT. FSA shows that there was still a Gerudo tribe around by that time, so a new twinrova could have been born...

[Zemen]

Different incarnations of Link appear in different games.
Different incarnations of Zelda appear in different games.
Different incarnations of Impa appear in different games.
Different incarnations of Tingle appear in different games.
Different incarnations of Malon appear in different games.
Different incarnations of Talon appear in different games.
Different incarnations of Ingo appear in different games.
Different incarnations of Koume and Kotake appear in different games

It's not proven that the twinrova from OoX is the same one from OoT. FSA shows that there was still a Gerudo tribe around by that time, so a new twinrova could have been born...

see youre talking like its a fact. FSA would only show this IF OoX goes on the adult timeline. and FSA is a new game whereas the other games are old games and make no references to the Gerudo tribe. i dont beleive OoX comes after FSA because i dont have them on the same timeline so how is that argument supposed to sway me? its also not proven that twinrova in OoX ARE NOT the same one so nice argument. the character incarnations you spoke of are regular beings who die as a normal being would EXCEPT for twinrova. if they were still alive in the child timeline and there was no one around to kill them in the child timeline and they never mention being reincarnated or dying previously in OoX then IMO OoX goes on the child timeline. youre not gonna change my mind.

[Pinecove]

Alright.

Twinrova is mainly yours (though can be explained in my timeline by the "We'll be back to haunt you" reference"). However, you have no way to explain the TRR references.

Explain those to me now.

Edit: Zemen what is your timeline?

[sign of table]

@Zemen
Explain the state of Triforce. Explain Ganon's titles. He is neither a Daimaou nor Yami no Maou in TP. Explain the TRR references. Explain the tMC references.

[Zemen]

Alright.

Twinrova is mainly yours (though can be explained in my timeline by the "We'll be back to haunt you" reference"). However, you have no way to explain the TRR references.

Explain those to me now.

Edit: Zemen what is your timeline?

basically the same as yours except i put OoX on the child timeline and i put MC and FS before OoT.

[Smertios]

basically the same as yours except i put OoX on the child timeline and i put MC and FS before OoT.

so is it
................../-TWW/PH-FSA-LttP/LA-LoZ/AoL
TMC-FS-OoT
..................\MM-TP-OoX
??

I'll reply to the rest later, I'm short on time right now...

[Zemen]

so is it
................../-TWW/PH-FSA-LttP/LA-LoZ/AoL
TMC-FS-OoT
..................\MM-TP-OoX
??

I'll reply to the rest later, I'm short on time right now...

that is exactly what my timeline is. way to step up and actually put it on paper (or screen) for me, Smertios.

[Smertios]

see youre talking like its a fact.

Sorry for that. I was just trying to point out that Twinrova from OoX isn't necessarily the same one from OoT.


FSA would only show this IF OoX goes on the adult timeline.

But there are no signs of the Gerudo anywhere in TP, whereas in TWW apparently there is a fortress that was previously inhabited by Gerudo (people told me that, but i'm not really sure, considering I never really played TWW).

So I believe it would work better as OoT/MM-OoX-TP for you in the CT.


and FSA is a new game whereas the other games are old games and make no references to the Gerudo tribe.

The oracles came after OoT. I didn't really understand your point.


i dont beleive OoX comes after FSA because i dont have them on the same timeline so how is that argument supposed to sway me? its also not proven that twinrova in OoX ARE NOT the same one so nice argument. the character incarnations you spoke of are regular beings who die as a normal being would EXCEPT for twinrova. if they were still alive in the child timeline and there was no one around to kill them in the child timeline and they never mention being reincarnated or dying previously in OoX then IMO OoX goes on the child timeline. youre not gonna change my mind.

I understand your logics there, but my point was that the devs use previous characters in new games. Not necessarily to show any timeline connections, but just to make the new games more comfortable to old players/fans...


that is exactly what my timeline is. way to step up and actually put it on paper (or screen) for me, Smertios.

I know. I have no idea who invented that kind of notation, but it is the best I've ever seen. It makes theorizing a lot easier...

And pretty interesting your timeline. Would you say that the Great Deku Tree plan of growing land worked in the end?? Or you believe that Link and Tetra found a new land and started a new kingdom?

[Pinecove]

He is neither a Daimaou nor Yami no Maou in TP.

Actually TP-OoX works perfectly for Ganon's titles as he IS Daimaou in the ending fight.......


................../-TWW/PH-FSA-LttP/LA-LoZ/AoL
TMC-FS-OoT
..................\MM-TP-OoX

Alright I can connect with someone. I'm happy that ALttP is on your adlt timeline...now then.

Since I know you're not going to get rid of your MC-FS-OoT placement anytime soon I'll debate:


TP-OoX

While I do admit this is tempting at first it can't work. In OoX before the fight against Ganon Twinrova puts Ganon's soul into a "yoshiro" which can be translated as "Vessel". The Vessel can not be Zelda as they are mentioned as two seperate objects. This leaves us with one option on what the Yoshiro is-The Trident.

The Trident in FSA has a soul sealed inside of it..........ergo OoX-FSA-ALttP.

So Instead of

/TWW/PH-FSA-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL
TMC-FS-OoT
\MM-TP

I'd put

/TWW/PH-OoX-FSA-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL
TMC-FS-OOT
\MM-TP

[sign of table]

Actually TP-OoX works perfectly for Ganon's titles as he IS Daimaou in the ending fight....... In the final fight? The one where only Link fought him? How would anyone actually know the title, then? Also, why would Ganon have that he is a Yami no Maou?

While I do admit this is tempting at first it can't work. In OoX before the fight against Ganon Twinrova puts Ganon's soul into a "yoshiro" which can be translated as "Vessel". The Vessel can not be Zelda as they are mentioned as two seperate objects. This leaves us with one option on what the Yoshiro is-The Trident. Whoa, whoa whoa. Saying that there are only 2 possible things is just false. Zelda isn't the Yorishiro because they failed to sacrifice her. So if the trident is the Yorishiro what does that blue flame with eyes represent? Right before Twinrova becomes Ganon black shadows start coming around Twinrova. Then Twinrova turns into a blue flame with eyes. Which then turns into Ganon.

Tell me what it represents if it isn't Ganon's soul.

Btw now you don't have to search LA for the translations. I made a translations thread in mysteries of Zelda. I only have the OoX translations so far. But I figure they're the most important translations we ever got. Those and the FSA translations.
The Trident in FSA has a soul sealed inside of it..........ergo OoX-FSA-ALttP. Jumbie didn't translate it like that. Prime Blue did. I believe Jumbie just said it was a weapon.

[Pinecove]

In the final fight? The one where only Link fought him? How would anyone actually know the title, then? Also, why would Ganon have that he is a Yami no Maou?

Beats me. Why did they know he was Daimoau after OoT?


Whoa, whoa whoa. Saying that there are only 2 possible things is just false. Zelda isn't the Yorishiro because they failed to sacrifice her. So if the trident is the Yorishiro what does that blue flame with eyes represent? Right before Twinrova becomes Ganon black shadows start coming around Twinrova. Then Twinrova turns into a blue flame with eyes. Which then turns into Ganon.

Exaclty. The Sacrifice and the Yoshiro can NEVER be the same thing.


The Trident in FSA has a soul sealed inside of it..........ergo OoX-FSA-ALttP.

Jumbie says that it's a dark device.

My translations go to "Vessel of darkness" or "Soul container"

[sign of table]

Beats me. Why did they know he was Daimoau after OoT? Good point.
Exaclty. The Sacrifice and the Yoshiro can NEVER be the same thing. 1) Proof plz 2) Your point?

You never explained what the blue flame with eyes represented. Ganon's body is obviously the Yorishiro.

Yeah a dark device. Phantom Ganon's trident from OoT is a dark device.

[Zemen]

Sorry for that. I was just trying to point out that Twinrova from OoX isn't necessarily the same one from OoT.



But there are no signs of the Gerudo anywhere in TP, whereas in TWW apparently there is a fortress that was previously inhabited by Gerudo (people told me that, but i'm not really sure, considering I never really played TWW).

So I believe it would work better as OoT/MM-OoX-TP for you in the CT.



The oracles came after OoT. I didn't really understand your point.



I understand your logics there, but my point was that the devs use previous characters in new games. Not necessarily to show any timeline connections, but just to make the new games more comfortable to old players/fans...



I know. I have no idea who invented that kind of notation, but it is the best I've ever seen. It makes theorizing a lot easier...

And pretty interesting your timeline. Would you say that the Great Deku Tree plan of growing land worked in the end?? Or you believe that Link and Tetra found a new land and started a new kingdom?

let me set you straight here. the Gerudo were not the previous residents of the forsaken fortress. the exact in game quote by tetra states that it was a rival pirates crew hideout until monsters took it over.

as for the rest of the posts, ive never researched these strange names or titles of ganondorf so i do not have replies at this time.

[Pinecove]

1) Proof plz

The sacrifice forms the body.


2) Your point?

My point is that Zelda was never the intended Yoshiro.


You never explained what the blue flame with eyes represented. Ganon's body is obviously the Yorishiro.

The blue flame is obviosly Ganon being revived. It's Twinrova sacrificing herself to give Ganon a body.


Yeah a dark device. Phantom Ganon's trident from OoT is a dark device.

You're becoming more trollish by the day.....Phantom Ganon's trident isn't even shaped like the Trident from OoX and FSA, plus the fact that it disapered when he died...


as for the rest of the posts, ive never researched these strange names or titles of ganondorf so i do not have replies at this time.

It's quite simple really.....

In OoT, TWW, TP and LoZ Ganon is known as Daimoau. In OoX Twinrova revives him as a Daimoau but end up with him proclaiming himself a Yami no maou. In FSA and ALttP he is a Yami no maou.

Period.

[sign of table]

You're becoming more trollish by the day.....Phantom Ganon's trident isn't even shaped like the Trident from OoX and FSA, plus the fact that it disapered when he died... I was joking. And, yeah, I've been feeling a little off lately.
My point is that Zelda was never the intended Yoshiro. I'm not saying that Zelda was the intended Yorishiro. I'm saying that the Yorishiro was supposed to be the body created by sacrificing Zelda.
The blue flame is obviosly Ganon being revived. It's Twinrova sacrificing herself to give Ganon a body. The blue flame is also just like the flames of grief ruin and... (can't remember the third). It seems to obviously represent Ganon's soul to me.

[Pinecove]

I was joking. And, yeah, I've been feeling a little off lately.

...oh. Yeah don't worry about it dude. We'll get through this eventually.


I'm not saying that Zelda was the intended Yorishiro. I'm saying that the Yorishiro was supposed to be the body created by sacrificing Zelda.

.......that actually makes sence. I still say that it's the Trident now that FSA has been released however.


The blue flame is also just like the flames of grief ruin and... (can't remember the third). It seems to obviously represent Ganon's soul to me.

Sorrow?
Despair?
Darkness?

It might. Weather it does or not is a matter of personal interpretation.

[Smertios]

I'm glad i saw this thread.

You guys just helped me with the biggest "flaw" (not really a flaw, just a gap) my timeline had: the lack of the trident BS in any game. I can say that it is OoT with Phantom Ganon...

[sign of table]

^Oh gawd. I was joking, lol. I've actually almost proposed the Phantom Ganon trident as an origin. But it's just way too out-there.

[Smertios]

I know. But that at least will make Ollathir back off for some time...

[Pinecove]

........No. Just no. The Tridents look NOTHING alike. Hell in the game it's a staff not a Trident. Only in the art is PG's weapon portrayed as a Trident.

[Smertios]

Ganondorf is also different in OoT, TP and TWW. But we know that it is the same person...

[~Simple~]

Timelines... **** why don't the creators just tell us.

Anyways found this timeline on Smashboards, it's the most accurate timeline I ever saw.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn257/spirethree/SpireIIIZeldaTimeline-1.png

[sign of table]

^You found a timeline on Smashboards? That is horrible timeline, btw.
No explanation for the seal war
No FS games
The oracle games are apart? They have to take place on different timelines. Just a really bad timeline overall.

[Zemen]

^You found a timeline on Smashboards? That is horrible timeline, btw.
No explanation for the seal war
No FS games
The oracle games are apart? They have to take place on different timelines. Just a really bad timeline overall.

i think you mean they have to take place on the same timeline. i agree this is a terrible timeline. it was either created before FS series or the people who made it left them out because they couldnt figure out where they wanted it. in the future you should probably post YOUR timeline and not someone elses. :(

[Smertios]

Timelines... **** why don't the creators just tell us.

Anyways found this timeline on Smashboards, it's the most accurate timeline I ever saw.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn257/spirethree/SpireIIIZeldaTimeline-1.png

No offence, but this is not a good timeline theory. At least IMO.

First, because LttP needs to happen in the AT if OoT is really the Seal War.

And why do the Oracles come in the two timelines? That doesn't make much sense...

[sign of table]

i think you mean they have to take place on the same timeline. i agree this is a terrible timeline. it was either created before FS series or the people who made it left them out because they couldnt figure out where they wanted it. in the future you should probably post YOUR timeline and not someone elses. Hehe yeah. I meant they have to take place on the same timeline.

Omg I can't believe this. We agree on something!!

[Smertios]

I think that timeline supposes that OoX happens in both timelines. Not that OoA happens in one and OoS in the other...

[sign of table]

I'd assume it's more like the GT timeline. Where one Oracle game happens on one timeline and another Oracle game happens on the other.

[Zemen]

that wouldnt make sense though because when you beat a game and use the password for the second game its made obvious that the second game you play is taking place after the previous one so they have to go on the same timeline.

[sign of table]

Hey I'm not the retard who made the GT timeline. But GT screwed up a lot of theorizing. You get uber-noobs thinking that only Gustaf could be the HoM. That the only possible placement for tMC is at the beginning (I'm not saying that it can't start the series. But I've heard some noobs say in the past "well tMC starts the timeline. It's proven fact") It's really screwed us good theorists over when trying to convert someone who thinks every word from GT is true.