The Two Hyrules

[ChargewithSword]

(For this theory I shall use only the child timeline IMO.)I've been wondering, have we ever taken into consideration of both the Hyrules that we knew about? This is the two Hyrule's featured in Zelda 1 and 2. Should any game come after it, should we not take into consideration the places on this map and how perhaps they could [B]somehow[B] link to one another.

Take a look at this map from the first game.
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/hehehecool/z01-11-12%5B1%5D2.JPG


What catches my interest is the placement of Death mountain there it is to the north of the "older" Hyrule.
Take a look at these other maps from Zelda games made beyond.

http://www.zeldalegends.net/files/articles/article10/z3map.gif
http://coco.raceme.org/videogames/zelda/images/hyrule.jpg

In both these games, Death Mountain appears to be on the northern part of the map, this would normally indicate that both games took place around the bottom of Hyrule period if they have a link to these other games. But in other games, Death Mountain often appears in quite a few many other locations.

http://www.thedailyblitz.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/hyrule-map-2.jpg

Now I'm no expert on geography, but I am sure that mountains don't change in 100 years. What am I trying to get at here, is that Hyrule might have changed it's location and split into two kingdoms. The First Kingdom that still follows the old code is in TP and the second that broke off is in Zelda 2.

Another thing that helps supports this is our lovable violent rock eaters, the gorons. During both the events of Alttp (they may have wings but that doesn't change the resemblance) and TP our friends were actually quite violent and strong. They may have had those lovable old charms in TP but they were still somewhat suspicious of Hylians during the game. And in Alttp they were very violent towards you, perhaps Ganondorf left more of a scar than we thought in OOT.
Now let's look at it in this order. OOT > Alttp > LOZ > AOL > TP

OOT and Alttp the mountain was on one certain side of the map, both of them had Gorons. The only difference is that they had different thoughts of you during each one. Even in TP they had shaky relations with you even though you seem to be of the new kingdom made after OOT. As soon as you help them though, they grow nice to you once again.

Why is this relevant, because no Gorons appeared in LOZ or AOL. In TP the gorons are stationed on the Westward side of Death Mountain which also could mean that they moved there from the eastern side that is in OOT and Alttp. We explore the southern side of the mountain in LOZ= No gorons. We explore the north eastern side = Nothing. Yet in TP we explore the westward side and find them there.

Also if you look at the map in OOT you'll find Hyrule to be more south of Death Mountain (if you removed the clouds.) In Alttp we are still south to the mountain (this is still iffy because the forest blocks any other exploration northward.

This seems to give me an idea that perhaps there are two Hyrules during the TP era. Yet this is still a theory and theories can be disproved, so give it your best shot. The more we argue, the more answers we'll discover hopefully.

[Vincent]

CRAZY! THIS THREAD IS CRAZY! No but really, you should make those images thumbnails.

[Mases]

Okay, I really need to install that mod that auto-resizes large images to fit in the window.

[ChargewithSword]

I tried my best to fix them. They just wouldn't stay small though.

[illerkiller]

But a worldwide flood would change mountains wouldn't they (call a geologist) ? Also, isn't it possible, that after WW, everything got rebuilt after time, though in different places ?

[ChargewithSword]

But a worldwide flood would change mountains wouldn't they (call a geologist) ? Also, isn't it possible, that after WW, everything got rebuilt after time, though in different places ?

Like I said, I'm ignoring the Adult timeline for this theory.

[illerkiller]

Oopsie, new to the names of the timelines. Sorry.

[Welbanks]

It could also be that the creators figured that having the map be identical in each game would be dumb? just maybe

[ChargewithSword]

It could also be that the creators figured that having the map be identical in each game would be dumb? just maybe

If Miyamoto has a folder that links up all the games in some way then I'm sure geography has something to do with it. Beside's that's the dumbest disprovement I've heard yet. If that's true why connect the games at all.

[Welbanks]

If Miyamoto has a folder that links up all the games in some way then I'm sure geography has something to do with it. Beside's that's the dumbest disprovement I've heard yet. If that's true why connect the games at all.

What prove do we have of this so called magical 'folder on his computer that explains everything'? He most likely just wanted Zelda nerds to stop pestering him.

[lonely_moon]

I don't believe there were two Hyrules. I generally place LoZ/AoL in the Adult timeline because of all the water surrounding the kingdom.

The Gorons seemed to have died out by the time of the Wind Waker, due to them needing a large amount of land. And the reason the Gorons were hostile towards others during the events of TP is because their government was kind of collapsing, and the race had always prided themselves as the strong ones and didn't want people to see their weakness.

As for the geography of the various depictions of Hyrule, besides the LoZ/AoL map, I have no idea why it changes. The general location of Hyrule Castle in LttP, OoT and TP are the same, but Kakariko Village changes. In LttP it wasn't anywhere near Death Mountain, in OoT it was south of it and in TP (I'm referring to Old Kakariko here) it's north-north-west and further away. Maybe the Kakariko in OoT moved to where Old Kakariko is in TP before the events of said game. I'm not even going there with regards to all the other landmarks because I have no idea how to explain them (with the exception of Gerudo Valley, which is always on the west side of the map because of a rain shadow).

[ChargewithSword]

What prove do we have of this so called magical 'folder on his computer that explains everything'? He most likely just wanted Zelda nerds to stop pestering him.

Ok that's it I'm ignoring you after this comment.



I don't believe there were two Hyrules. I generally place LoZ/AoL in the Adult timeline because of all the water surrounding the kingdom.

The Gorons seemed to have died out by the time of the Wind Waker, due to them needing a large amount of land. And the reason the Gorons were hostile towards others during the events of TP is because their government was kind of collapsing, and the race had always prided themselves as the strong ones and didn't want people to see their weakness.

As for the geography of the various depictions of Hyrule, besides the LoZ/AoL map, I have no idea why it changes. The general location of Hyrule Castle in LttP, OoT and TP are the same, but Kakariko Village changes. In LttP it wasn't anywhere near Death Mountain, in OoT it was south of it and in TP (I'm referring to Old Kakariko here) it's north-north-west and further away. Maybe the Kakariko in OoT moved to where Old Kakariko is in TP before the events of said game. I'm not even going there with regards to all the other landmarks because I have no idea how to explain them (with the exception of Gerudo Valley, which is always on the west side of the map because of a rain shadow).

Just Because Water surrounds a large body of water doesn't mean much since every kingdom needs an ocean somewhere. Also let me point out the lack of technology present during LOZ/AOL time period. If it was during the WW period then the lack of technology is less acceptable. If LOZ and AOL came after both of the attacks on Hyrule and the final strike, most of the technology would diminish in the old kingdom and the new kingdom had to start from scratch. And by the time TP came, the "old" order kingdom had finally rebuilt itself.

Also towns tend to move at times, especially when your constantly in danger against monsters. I wouldn't be surprised if Kakarico was destroyed (hence the Kakarico ruins.)

Gerudo Valley is also a good example that the kingdom moved. Look how it's now to the southwest of the map in TP instead of the southeast like in OOT and Alttp.

[Bluelink6]

You're right. mountains don't change in 100 years. At least not in our world. So.....it's hyrule- anything could happen.

[ChargewithSword]

You're right. mountains don't change in 100 years. At least not in our world. So.....it's hyrule- anything could happen.

Most of it happens when someone causes those things, besides we can't survive jumping in lava or falling off the edge of the map. So that is out.

[lonely_moon]

Just Because Water surrounds a large body of water doesn't mean much since every kingdom needs an ocean somewhere. Also let me point out the lack of technology present during LOZ/AOL time period. If it was during the WW period then the lack of technology is less acceptable. If LOZ and AOL came after both of the attacks on Hyrule and the final strike, most of the technology would diminish in the old kingdom and the new kingdom had to start from scratch. And by the time TP came, the "old" order kingdom had finally rebuilt itself.

Also towns tend to move at times, especially when your constantly in danger against monsters. I wouldn't be surprised if Kakarico was destroyed (hence the Kakarico ruins.)

Gerudo Valley is also a good example that the kingdom moved. Look how it's now to the southwest of the map in TP instead of the southeast like in OOT and Alttp.

1. Why does every kingdom need an ocean? There wasn't one in OoT and TP anywhere that you could reach.
2. I wasn't quite sure what you were trying to say, but I'll attempt to answer anyway. If they had already developed the technology and were then attacked/relocated, it wouldn't have taken them that long to recreate it, since they would have already had the blueprints. Buildings are different.
3. This is the only point of yours I agree upon, but there could have been other reasons. Maybe it was too dangerous for Kakariko to be where it was in OoT due to volcanic eruptions.
4. I think you have your directions mixed up. In all the maps besides the Zelda 2 one, you can clearly see that the Gerudo Desert is on the west side.

[ChargewithSword]

1. Why does every kingdom need an ocean? There wasn't one in OoT and TP anywhere that you could reach.
2. I wasn't quite sure what you were trying to say, but I'll attempt to answer anyway. If they had already developed the technology and were then attacked/relocated, it wouldn't have taken them that long to recreate it, since they would have already had the blueprints. Buildings are different.
3. This is the only point of yours I agree upon, but there could have been other reasons. Maybe it was too dangerous for Kakariko to be where it was in OoT due to volcanic eruptions.
4. I think you have your directions mixed up. In all the maps besides the Zelda 2 one, you can clearly see that the Gerudo Desert is on the west side.


For 1. and 4. I was tired and wasn't thinking straight.

2. When a kingdom starts from scratch, they must first obtain the resources to make this technology. Also when a kingdom is destroyed, lack of profits make it difficult to rebuild again.

3. There are many problems with living near a live volcano.

[lonely_moon]

OK, I didn't think of that. You're right, they would have needed to find the resources first.

[ChargewithSword]

Continue with your discusssion from a new angle and tackle it there. There are holes around my theory that can only be filled with debate.

[Amelie]

It could also be that the creators figured that having the map be identical in each game would be dumb? just maybe

I think this is the case. If they left Hyrule the same every game it would be boreing. And after seeing the TP map on the foto.. I now know why that game seemed so "cramped" ><