Tasty Timeline Treats

[blackmoon]

TWW-PH -
/
TMC - FS - OoT
\
MM - TP -

Seems to be the most obvious timeline opening. Most of this is based on glaring logic (ie. TMC must come before FS) and quotes from Miyamoto. This also seems quite sensible.

So... err... where to go from here?

Well, I thought I'd show you my reasoning, as it's a little less... concrete than what seems to be universally accepted. We still need to place LoZ, AoL, ALttP, LA, OoX, FSA and Rosy Tingle Land whatever it's called. Since I haven't played Tingle, I'll personally leave it out for now.

Now, if memory serves, Ganon's trident only appears in FSA (also, it's first appearance), ALttP and LA. This means FSA comes before ALttP, and must also occur in the same timeline.

FSA - ALttP-LA

The only other hard evidence for anything I can find is that OoX must occur in the Child timeline, as Twinrova/Kotake and Koume are/is alive.

OoX can come after LoZ or ALttP, as they are the only games in which Ganon actually dies, AND the Triforce is complete at the end of both (I doubt that Ganon would be revived if he had last died as Ganondorf!) Therefore, either LoZ AND/OR ALttP must occur in the child timeline.

So, this is getting more into guesswork now, but if we follow the Triforce...

We know that Ganon has apparently "stolen" the Triforce of Power from in-game text (or was it the manual? I forget) at the start of LoZ, meaning that he did not have it at the end of whatever game comes before it. I assume that when he retrieves the Triforce of Power, Zelda must recieve the ToW as well. (I have absolutely no idea what could possibly cause the ToC to find it's way to Dark Link in AoL). Two games come to mind; ALttP, or TWW.

I'm going to admit it; I'm clutching at straws now. But if I assume the line "And the Master Sword sleeps again... Forever", at the and of ALttP is true...



TWW-PH - FSA - ALttP-LA
/
TMC - FS - OoT
\
MM - TP - LoZ-AoL - OoX

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS?

[Master94]

1. What ''oox'' means?
2. where are the oracle games
3. That shigeru m... said that Oot is first game
Please anver these.

[Skull_Kid]

1. What ''oox'' means?
2. where are the oracle games
3. That shigeru m... said that Oot is first game
Please anver these.

1-Oox are the Oracles

2-read above

3- after that Myiamoto said that FS came before OoT, and considering MC a prequel to FS, it's all explained

[Zemen]

this is the only timeline that i have found to totally agree with so far. good job and good explanations IMO

[Welbanks]

But Links awakening comes after the oracles.
But most of this makes sense

[Zemen]

But Links awakening comes after the oracles.
But most of this makes sense

rather than just making a statement maybe you should explain why you think that so it can further be discussed...

[Welbanks]

rather than just making a statement maybe you should explain why you think that so it can further be discussed...

*sigh*
At the end of the special ending of the oracles he gets into the boat that Link is in at the beginning of links awakening. Happy?

[blackmoon]

LA was intended as a sequel for ALttP. I think that makes it more likely for it to come after ALttP than OoX, regardless of whether they leave in the same boat.

Besides, I got the impression from the LA manual that Link was craving for adventure after he defeated Ganon. One does not crave for adventure the day the save the world. In OoX, however, Link hops in his boat almost immediately after he defeats Ganon, at least, that is the impression I got.

[Zemen]

i recall the official story being that Link set sail FROM HYRULE after ALTTP which leads into LA.

at the end of the OoX games Link is obviously NOT leaving Hyrule therefor LA cant take place after those games if LA has him leaving Hyrule.

[Welbanks]

If by 'official story' you mean the manual, you can never really count what they say because alot of what they say contradicts stuff once newer games come out, plus i really dont think Nintendo cared about the timeline before ocarina of time came out

[MrMosley]

If by 'official story' you mean the manual, you can never really count what they say because alot of what they say contradicts stuff once newer games come out, plus i really dont think Nintendo cared about the timeline before ocarina of time came out

LA is a sequel of ALttP, end of story. You can't set and say what is written BY THE PRODUCERS is not factual, even if its old. I do not agree with everything about the timeline, because I have my own, but once again, Link's Awakening is, and will never be, a sequel to the Oracle series.

The manuals are one of the main things we have that we can actually rely on as far as plot/timelines go. Read the information we have before continually posting random things like this based on a picture.

Back on topic, it seems that you have some good points, but I'm having trouble seeing how your continuation works in your timeline. As in, how the games are connecting exactly. So its not showing a clear timeline to me as it is to you. Could you possibly explain how they are connecting or post maybe a picture with the timeline laid out?

[Welbanks]

The manuals are one of the main things we have that we can actually rely on as far as plot/timelines go. Read the information we have before continually posting random things like this based on a picture


I have read the stuff, and im not just basing it on a picture,
http://www.zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1496
Thats the timeline i follow imo, and it personally convinced me that LA comes after Oox, no need to freak out on me, sheesh

[Zemen]

If by 'official story' you mean the manual, you can never really count what they say because alot of what they say contradicts stuff once newer games come out, plus i really dont think Nintendo cared about the timeline before ocarina of time came out

this reminds me of a commercial from long ago. remember those ketchups that were different colors? i remember them... based on your idea, you think that the picture outweighs the word of the creators. based on this thought process, if the creators of the green ketchup told you it was ketchup you would say no, its definitely spinach dip.

another example is MC and WW. many people say that the Hyrule in MC is the new Hyrule that Tetra and Link go off to find. one of the main reasons i hear for this idea is the artwork. the artwork for MC is toon link so they assume it has to be connected to WW just because of the artwork. chances are that the only reason the artwork is of toon link is beacuse both games were made relatively around the same time.

if the manual says that LA is a sequel to ALTTP, im gonna believe it more than i beleive a fan who thinks that a picture is more canon than a game manual.

[MrMosley]

*sigh*
At the end of the special ending of the oracles he gets into the boat that Link is in at the beginning of links awakening. Happy?

This is basing your theory from a picture. You have posted numerous threads and posts in different threads about this same subject when you apparently have not read the information or your mind would not still be set on the picture at the end of OoX. The only reason I tell you this is because you are posting short, numerous posts with no good evidence to back them up, and that can be considered spamming. Its good if you have a theory, but you need to have more information rather than, "Well there is a boat at the end." That dosen't help anyone at all. Its like I said in another thread, there is a boat at the end of Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass; that doesn't mean they are sequels/prequels to the Oracles. Many Zelda's start and end with similar scenes going on, but that dosen't overpower facts that are written in the manuals of the games.

[Welbanks]

this reminds me of a commercial from long ago. remember those ketchups that were different colors? i remember them... based on your idea, you think that the picture outweighs the word of the creators. based on this thought process, if the creators of the green ketchup told you it was ketchup you would say no, its definitely spinach dip.

another example is MC and WW. many people say that the Hyrule in MC is the new Hyrule that Tetra and Link go off to find. one of the main reasons i hear for this idea is the artwork. the artwork for MC is toon link so they assume it has to be connected to WW just because of the artwork. chances are that the only reason the artwork is of toon link is beacuse both games were made relatively around the same time.

if the manual says that LA is a sequel to ALTTP, im gonna believe it more than i beleive a fan who thinks that a picture is more canon than a game manual.


I wont lie, i remember those coloured ketchups, and i remember not wanting to eat it because it was funny colours and i figured it would taste gross :P but anyways..
I dont think MC is after WW because of the artwork, that wouldent make sense, i just personally believe that Link leaving on a sailboat that looks just like the one from LA seems like more than a coincidence, im not trying to start anything here.

[Zemen]

I wont lie, i remember those coloured ketchups, and i remember not wanting to eat it because it was funny colours and i figured it would taste gross :P but anyways..
I dont think MC is after WW because of the artwork, that wouldent make sense, i just personally believe that Link leaving on a sailboat that looks just like the one from LA seems like more than a coincidence, im not trying to start anything here.

OoX was made by Capcom, not by the same company that made all of the other Zelda games. Capcom is not nearly as involved in the Zelda series as is the companies who makes the other games. chances are that Capcom reused ideas. we see the same monsters, the same townsfolk and the same bosses being reused but that doesnt affect the timeline so much so why does the fact that one sail boat looks like another affect YOUR timeline?

the creators have told us, in print, that LA comes directly after ALTTP. i understand that you think they contradict themselves but if OoX came before LA like you said, then they would have told us, IMO. my advice is that rather than spending a lot of time trying to figure out something that the creators say is wrong, you should just go with what they say is right and drop it.

[Skull_Kid]

I don't agree with the fact that FSA and ALttP come in the adult timeline!
It is mostly known that the place where you get the Master Sword in ALttP looks a lot like the place where you get the Master Sword in TP, only without ruins...
Also, don't forget that the names of locations were forgotten, so how would they know that the Death Mountain was the name of it, and etc^?

[MrMosley]

I don't agree that ALttP comes in the Adult Timeline either, however my theory (first timeline) suggested that FSA could possibly come in the Adult Timeline. I know these two games seem connected, obviously, so that is the part that confuses me.

[Skull_Kid]

My opinion is that people see a game with Toon Link artwork and imediatly assume it is after PH... It is wrong, it is just a style guide

[MrMosley]

My opinion is that people see a game with Toon Link artwork and imediatly assume it is after PH... It is wrong, it is just a style guide

True, it can make people think this way. But that is not exactly what I consider when saying that I believe FSA to be after WW. Personally, whenever I think of FSA now in terms of "artwork", I think of the setting and scenery, and how it looks exactly like ALttP. My idea is that FSA leaves out a lot of the things we have in ALttP, as well as games that are "supposed" to come before it, like OoT and TP.

[blackmoon]

Back on topic, it seems that you have some good points, but I'm having trouble seeing how your continuation works in your timeline. As in, how the games are connecting exactly. So its not showing a clear timeline to me as it is to you. Could you possibly explain how they are connecting or post maybe a picture with the timeline laid out?
__________________

-------------------------------TWW-PH
Well, I assume that the MC-FS-OoT
-------------------------------MM-TP

part is clear enough. Alot of the rest of it was kind of guesswork based on the facts that I'd already laid out.

I was actually thinking about the location of the Master Sword, though, and realised I'd probably made an error. It would be more accurate to place FSA, and therefore ALttP, in the child timeline.

An updated timeline should probably go

----------------TWW-PH - LoZ-AoL
TMC - FS - OoT
----------------MM - TP - FSA - ALttP-LA - OoX

This does somewhat contradict the line at the end of ALttP (The Master Sword Sleeps again... forever...) but OoX MUST come after ALttP or LoZ (see my first post), and also MUST occur in the child timeline. However, this could be a different Master Sword (maybe...) as it wasn't found in Hyrule.

As for LoZ in the adult timeline, that's just personal choice.

Is there anything else that needs to be cleared up?

[Pinecove]

ALright Skull kid and Zemen.

1. That FS quote was "we are thinking..."
2. Later on Aonuma mentioned that he didn't even work on FS.
3. FSA is a direct sequal to FS meaning FS has to take place before ALttP.
4. If you take that Developer quote as Canon, then OoT has to be the SW which kindof destroys your theory.

[sign of table]

3. FSA is a direct sequal to FS meaning FS has to take place before ALttP. The people here don't think that the FSA manual implies that it goes FS/FSA.

[Pinecove]

Uh.......that's the weirdest reasoning I've ever heard.

FS and FSA Hyrule are exactly the same.
FS and FSA Link are both automaticly named Link.
FSA Link knows what's going to happen when he pulls the FS.

I could go on and on too...

[sign of table]

I'm not the one who believes that. Go look in some other threads to see their answers.

[Pinecove]

When did I ever say you were?

I'm listing examples fo when the Riot begins. :triforce:

[blackmoon]

...I don't see why we're arguing the placement of FS-FSA...

The opening to FSA states that there had been two prior heroes defeat Vaati prior to the game starting. At this point in time, this implies the order is TMC-FS-FSA. And I don't think the developers are planning to change this any time soon.

I don't see how FSA can be a direct sequel to FS. Link would have known not to draw the Four Sword if he had just sealed Vaati away in it...


As for FS coming before OoT, there's really no evidence for it outside of that old developers interview. On that note, there's no evidence against it. Therefore, the evidence for FS coming before OoT outweighs evidence for it coming after, therefore it is most likely that FS comes before OoT.

On that note, even IF FS should come after, I believe at the very least that TMC should come before OoT, if only to space the games out properly - although, without FS coming first, there's no evidence at all for it to come first.

[Zemen]

...I don't see why we're arguing the placement of FS-FSA...

The opening to FSA states that there had been two prior heroes defeat Vaati prior to the game starting. At this point in time, this implies the order is TMC-FS-FSA. And I don't think the developers are planning to change this any time soon.

I don't see how FSA can be a direct sequel to FS. Link would have known not to draw the Four Sword if he had just sealed Vaati away in it...


As for FS coming before OoT, there's really no evidence for it outside of that old developers interview. On that note, there's no evidence against it. Therefore, the evidence for FS coming before OoT outweighs evidence for it coming after, therefore it is most likely that FS comes before OoT.

On that note, even IF FS should come after, I believe at the very least that TMC should come before OoT, if only to space the games out properly - although, without FS coming first, there's no evidence at all for it to come first.

are you saying that if FS does not come first on the timeline then there is no evidence that MS comes first? if thats what youre saying then you obviously havent researched it much. there is a thread that i created that talks about the placement of FS. im not gonna post a link. it shouldnt be hard to find.

[Pinecove]

I don't see how FSA can be a direct sequel to FS. Link would have known not to draw the Four Sword if he had just sealed Vaati away in it...

Zelda even says that Link knows what's going to happen when he pulls the FS. Your logic fails.

As for earlier in the thread with OoX and LA, LA CAN come after OoX but it's unlikely. OoX also seems to be more of a prequal to FSA because of the Trident and the Yoshiro.

[sign of table]

As for earlier in the thread with OoX and LA, LA CAN come after OoX but it's unlikely How is it unlikely? How is having the most overall proof for any placement in the entire series make it unlikely?

[Zemen]

How is it unlikely? How is having the most overall proof for any placement in the entire series make it unlikely?

just because you have more evidence (not factual proof) does not make it correct. the manual for LA says it comes after ALTTP. the best piece of evidence you have is that the boats look the same...whoopty doo...

the back story for LA is that link leaves Hyrule...not labrynna or holodrum.

[sign of table]

^1) Link in OoX came from Hyrule originally 2) Actually the Japanese manual says that you are returning to Hyrule after training in foreign countries.

There are no contradictions for OoX-LA in the LA manual.

Actually there are no real contradictions for any placement of LA in the LA manual. Except tMC-LA because tMC Link didn't defeat Ganon.


Actually all evidence that LttP-LA has (Agahnim, ummm hmm nothing other than Agahnim, really) OoX-LA has way more (14 exclusive enemies. LA takes place in a dream so most of the things reflect things from Link's life. So whichever placement has the most similarities in theory has the most evidence)

Until someone proves me wrong I am going to continue to say that OoX-LA has more evidence than LttP-LA. Because it does.

[Zemen]

^1) Link in OoX came from Hyrule originally 2) Actually the Japanese manual says that you are returning to Hyrule after training in foreign countries.

There are no contradictions for OoX-LA in the LA manual.

Actually there are no real contradictions for any placement of LA in the LA manual. Except tMC-LA because tMC Link didn't defeat Ganon.


Actually all evidence that LttP-LA has (Agahnim, ummm hmm nothing other than Agahnim, really) OoX-LA has way more (14 exclusive enemies. LA takes place in a dream so most of the things reflect things from Link's life. So whichever placement has the most similarities in theory has the most evidence)

Until someone proves me wrong I am going to continue to say that OoX-LA has more evidence than LttP-LA. Because it does.

youre saying that the better placement is the one that has more similarities with the past reflections of his life. LA was made before OoX so the game was made with ALTTP in mind, not OoX in mind as the game was not created yet.

[sign of table]

^I'm not saying they had OoX in mind when they made LA. I'm saying they had LA in mind when they made OoX.

[Zemen]

^I'm not saying they had OoX in mind when they made LA. I'm saying they had LA in mind when they made OoX.

which would make no sense. "hey lets make a prequel to a game that already has a prequel!"

doesnt sound like a smart idea.

[sign of table]

Which is why it is a retcon. It replaces that.

The fact that it has more evidence to be the prequel than what was originally the prequel is something that you have to take seriously.

[Zemen]

Which is why it is a retcon. It replaces that.

The fact that it has more evidence to be the prequel than what was originally the prequel is something that you have to take seriously.

this is all your opinion as there is no direct quotes in game or from creators to say that its the prequel. so what if some of the enemies are exclusive to just those two games? maybe its because they reused ideas! OMG IF THEY USE THE SAME MONSTER IN THIS GAME AS IN THAT GAME THEY MUST GO TOGETHER!!!!!!!

who cares if its the same boat. all the swords in the old games look the same. all of the boomerangs in the old games look the same. a lot of the people look the same. why cant the boats look the same? OMG THE BOATS LOOK ALIKE IT HAS TO BE THE PREQUEL!!!!

in my mind, it makes no sense to make a prequel for a game that already has a prequel.

[sign of table]

^According to Miyamoto, which you seem to love director quotes, LA had no real place in the timeline.

Give me all of your proof for LttP-LA. Just so I can know why you believe LttP-LA.

[Zemen]

^According to Miyamoto, which you seem to love director quotes, LA had no real place in the timeline.

Give me all of your proof for LttP-LA. Just so I can know why you believe LttP-LA.

"Link, who had defeated the evil Ganon and regained peace in Hyrule, had not enjoyed the archived tranquility for long, and eventually becomes restless. Feeling in need of training or enlightenment, he embarks on a journey and sails across oceans in a small sail boat."

in OoX, Link fights Ganon in Labrynna/Holodrum, not in Hyrule. the BS for LA states that after defeating Ganon he brought peace back to Hyrule, which implies that Ganon was defeated in Hyrule, not in Labrynna/Holodrum.

also, it says after training in foreign countries, not after 2 massive adventures in foreign countries, he set sail back to Hyrule. he defeats Ganon at the end of ALTTP which would make sense to lead into him leaving Hyrule after saving it. now if you are correct and OoX is the prequel, that means that there is the same link in 4 different games...the most adventures any one link has gone on in the series is 2. i would think the creators would move on and give a new link a new adventure before they decided to make 2 more adventures for a link that already had 2 adventures.

based on your timeline theory of this, Link deafeated Ganon in ALTTP, then defeated Ganon in OoX (which means he defeated him twice) which means he defeated Ganon 3 times in one lifetime. then in LA he defeates a nightmare Ganon and Aghanim (who is ONLY in ALTTP). thats a lot for ONE link to do.

[sign of table]

Link... The three (Triforce) on your left hand symbolize power, wisdom
and courage-- these are the mark of the hero who is fated to appear
when peace crumbles in Hyrule. With the Essences of Nature and Time and
the courage you possess, you have fought back the powers of evil! The
guidance of the Triforce has made you into this legendary hero! Thank
you, Link. When peace in Hyrule crumbles. If he completed his task then peace would surely return to Hyrule. I have other quotes for this, if you'd like.


Wait I hadn't completely read the rest of your post. I DON'T believe in LttP/OoX/LA. I believe in OoX/LA.

Who's to say that OoX Link didn't go other places.

[Alter]

A bit of help- Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland comes before any other game with Tingle in it.

I should also add that Tingle cannot be a determining factor in the timeline, as there are several clashes with games which places have already been decided. The reason for this is that the developers never expected a backstory to be created for Tingle. If you compare TRR, MM, and WW you'll see immediate clashes. Not to mention that Tingle would have to live for 1000's of years...

[sign of table]

^TRR doesn't have to be the first tingle game.

There is more than one tingle. Anyone who works for Uncle Rupee becomes a tingle. So there could be many many many tingles at any time.

[Smertios]

A bit of help- Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland comes before any other game with Tingle in it.

I should also add that Tingle cannot be a determining factor in the timeline, as there are several clashes with games which places have already been decided. The reason for this is that the developers never expected a backstory to be created for Tingle. If you compare TRR, MM, and WW you'll see immediate clashes. Not to mention that Tingle would have to live for 1000's of years...

Uncle Rupee made at least 3 tingles through the game. There are more than one tingle.

Also notice that the world in TRR is incredibly similar to how it is in TWW: a large ocean with islands. But the islands are a little bit larger in TRR, implying that the GDT's plan worked.

TRR also has to precede OoS, considering the subrosians. So it is a good timeline indicator...

[blackmoon]

on that Tingle would have to live for 1000's of years...
Uncle Rupee made at least 3 tingles through the game. There are more than one tingle.

Also notice that the world in TRR is incredibly similar to how it is in TWW: a large ocean with islands. But the islands are a little bit larger in TRR, implying that the GDT's plan worked.

TRR also has to precede OoS, considering the subrosians. So it is a good timeline indicator... That helps me alot, considering I haven't played it. Finally, some reasoning for placement of TRR! Still, I won't place it until I play it.

As for where we were before, with you lot arguing about the placement of FS, before the FSA game tells you that you know what will happen if you draw the Four Sword, Zelda tells you she feels the seal on the FS is failing...

As for OoX being prequel to LA, the idea does make sense, however I think many of the enemies were just recycled enemies - the GBC sprites already existed, ready to be ripped. There's no reason for it not to be. On the other hand, OoX can come quite neatly after ALttP, what with the Triforce being in the castle and all...

However, I think the Aghanim connection still puts more emphasis on LA being a sequel to ALttP. But I won't say for certain.

[blackmoon]

on that Tingle would have to live for 1000's of years...
Uncle Rupee made at least 3 tingles through the game. There are more than one tingle.

Also notice that the world in TRR is incredibly similar to how it is in TWW: a large ocean with islands. But the islands are a little bit larger in TRR, implying that the GDT's plan worked.

TRR also has to precede OoS, considering the subrosians. So it is a good timeline indicator... That helps me alot, considering I haven't played it. Finally, some reasoning for placement of TRR! Still, I won't place it until I play it.

As for where we were before, with you lot arguing about the placement of FS, before the FSA game tells you that you know what will happen if you draw the Four Sword, Zelda tells you she feels the seal on the FS is failing...

As for OoX being prequel to LA, the idea does make sense, however I think many of the enemies were just recycled enemies - the GBC sprites already existed, ready to be ripped. There's no reason for it not to be. On the other hand, OoX can come quite neatly after ALttP, what with the Triforce being in the castle and all...

However, I think the Aghanim connection still puts more emphasis on LA being a sequel to ALttP. But I won't say for certain.

[Midna666]

A bit of help- Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland comes before any other game with Tingle in it.

I should also add that Tingle cannot be a determining factor in the timeline, as there are several clashes with games which places have already been decided. The reason for this is that the developers never expected a backstory to be created for Tingle. If you compare TRR, MM, and WW you'll see immediate clashes. Not to mention that Tingle would have to live for 1000's of years...

I believe that Tingle's game is not canon.
It was a spin-off like Link's Crossbow Training was.
It was not made to be part of the timeline.