Ocarina of Time Ocarina of time ending : a paradox ? [Archive]

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Bluelink6

01-16-2009, 03:20 PM

At the end of ocarina of time, zelda sends link back to his original timeline. When he was young.
But...if he was young, doesn't that mean there were 2 links there? The one who had just exited kokirir forest, and the link who had completed ocarina of time? Maybe, as well as the fact that her servitude to link was over, Navi maybe realised this and left, to prevent the 2 links meeting ? The effect to the tmeline would be catastrohic. And she couldn't send him to a split timeline becuase then there would be a link in that timeline 2. Link and a parallel version of himslef meeting is also bad. What do you think ?

Is this a time paradox that was resolved by link leaving and going to termina after navi? More over, what would happen if the 2 links met ?

timewarp

01-16-2009, 05:29 PM

There aren't two Links in the child timeline. When Zelda sends Link back to his time, it's the same result as when you return the Master Sword to the Pedestal of Time. Link just reappears in the Temple of Time as a child and goes about his way.

Petman1325

01-16-2009, 06:25 PM

I do not think this is a paradox. When Zelda sent Link back in time, she may have passed on the story about Link that may have become a legend. In the Child timeline, Link may have told Zelda, and the two may have spread the word about the events. And, there are not two Links, there is only one in Ocarina of Time. It is that during that during the two timelines, only one Link was there. That Link was sleeping for seven years.

And I think you got that title from my own topic about Phantom Hourglass being a paradox...:hmm:

EponaOwns

01-16-2009, 07:29 PM

This is not a paradix I beleive. Zelda goes back in time by the power of the Ocarina I beleive and Link goes back as a kid. There are not 2 links at a place. When Link gets turned back to a kid he wont go through that experience 7 years in the future. I'm not sure if that helped but that is the best I could do.

Bluelink6

01-18-2009, 07:20 AM

Midna666

01-18-2009, 07:33 AM

Time traveling never makes sense.

Master94

01-18-2009, 07:36 AM

This is so simple. There is no paradox. Zelda send him back in time and in the past link is in the future same time when link comes.

kpllk

01-18-2009, 07:39 AM

~thread moved~

This belongs in Mysteries of Zelda.

That just confused me a LOT, however, I do not think there are two Links. That would mean that there are two adult Links too, but you never know.

Master94

01-18-2009, 07:39 AM

Kpllk, stop acting like u vere mod.

kpllk

01-18-2009, 07:44 AM

Kpllk, stop acting like u vere mod.

I am just trying to say it so that the mods will see it and move it. And it doesn't matter. Soon, when I become a mod, that will REALLY be moved with posts like mine. I was just practising.

Bluelink6

01-18-2009, 09:18 AM

Practicing to be a mod is like asking. If you keep doing this you'll have a loooooong wait.

kpllk

01-18-2009, 09:55 AM

Well I was just poining out that it should be moved. Now a mod will see that and move it.

Alkarius

01-18-2009, 10:47 AM

Bluelink6

01-19-2009, 11:34 AM

I think I get it.....But if he was sent back, what about the Link that had only just have got the 3 gems? would he have gone to the future, therefore meaning that there was only 1 link there?

timewarp

01-19-2009, 04:04 PM

I think I get it.....But if he was sent back, what about the Link that had only just have got the 3 gems? would he have gone to the future, therefore meaning that there was only 1 link there?
Look at it this way: if you were standing in the Temple of Time watching Link pull the Master Sword, you see him go up in that blue light column, and disappear. Very shortly afterwards, you would see the blue light again, and Link would appear, letting go of the Master Sword, which is now in the pedestal again.

Zemen

01-20-2009, 02:28 AM

Look at it this way: if you were standing in the Temple of Time watching Link pull the Master Sword, you see him go up in that blue light column, and disappear. Very shortly afterwards, you would see the blue light again, and Link would appear, letting go of the Master Sword, which is now in the pedestal again.

this wouldnt happen. Link is sent back to a time before he went to the future and he is sent back by Zelda, not by the power of the master sword. we see him walking up to Zelda in the gardens of the castle where he first met her in the game and this all took place before he was sealed for 7 years, so no, you would not see him reappear putting the master sword in the pedastal.

also, there would not be two links at all. he was not just plain old sent back in time. he is sent back to his original time before anything happened. he is sent back to HIS childhood, not just back to the time of his childhood. it is literally as if nothing had happened and if nothing had happened yet, then there is no future link to go back in time which means there is only one link.

Midna666

01-25-2009, 06:20 AM

How about it's a video game,it does not have to make sense.

Ver-go-a-go-go

01-25-2009, 10:34 AM

How about it's a video game,it does not have to make sense.

That's no fun:P

Some people like to talk about it even if it's a video game.

Zemen

01-25-2009, 01:12 PM

Well, you really can't know for sure when you will become a mod. Anyways, I'm getting off topic.

It's not a paradox because like timewarp said, the Ocarina gave the smae effect as returning the Master Sword to the Pedestal of Time, Zelda went back in time as well.

Zelda doesnt go back in time. she stays in the future with ganondorf. thats why there is a timesplit. if she didnt stay in THAT future then there would be no royal family bloodline to continue on.

Amelie

01-27-2009, 05:22 AM

I dont think there is two links. When Link goes back in time its just one Link. But it does make you wonder why Ganon didnt get out of the sacred realm after Link goes back in time.

Like people say. Time travel doesnt make since ><

Bluelink6

01-30-2009, 12:45 PM

Like oging back and stopping someone dying. If they didnt die, you wouldnt have goneback to top it. But if you hadnt ogne back ot stop it, they would be dead and you would save them, but that would mean you hadnt done it, so they owuld die, etc. that what you mean? I call that a time loop.

Axle the Beast

01-31-2009, 12:20 AM

Link probably left for Termina after not very long, so I doubt he'd bump into himself.

zeldaocarina96

01-31-2009, 08:47 PM

what annoys me is that the game just ends and thats it, i thought it would be nice to at leat be able to run around in the newly saved Hyrule but instead all you can do is fight anondorf for the rest of your life, shooot!
well hey the game is a masterpiece tho..:)

Midna666

01-31-2009, 09:40 PM

Bluelink6

02-01-2009, 07:06 AM

Yeah. As much as I wish I could run around a newly saved hyrule, I'd Hae to only be able to battle Ganon once.

SethOmega

02-27-2009, 03:49 PM

STOP STOP!!!! This time paradox crap make mah head hurt. Its not a paradox because Zelda warped him back to just after he had entered picked up the Master Sword.

Kybyrian

02-27-2009, 03:53 PM

I don't think there is a paradox here. When she sends Link back it's basically just like whenever Link returns the Master Sword to the pedestal, as said before.

Myungster

03-05-2009, 01:05 AM

Okay, the two links theory is a nice thought, except you didn't desribe it well. Instead of moving through time, time moves through Link. That being said, the 2 links can never meet. Adult Link never goes into the past, Link just becomes Young Link.

As for the paradox...
The VERY ending, when Link is in the courtyard, Zelda seems shocked to see him, just like when they first met. So it's like the begining is the end...

Which is a paradox in a way.

basement24

03-29-2009, 06:52 PM

The VERY ending, when Link is in the courtyard, Zelda seems shocked to see him, just like when they first met. So it's like the begining is the end...

See, this is what always got me about the ending. I figured that the game was an endless loop. Link returned home and then went back to see Zelda again and the whole thing started again. He'd get to the end yet again, and then be sent back in time only to do it again, and again, and again.

I never thought this was a problem to have happened this way either, because the original working Japanese title of Majora's Mask supposedly translates into "Zelda Side Story". I thought the events of MM happened somewhere in the events of OoT, but we didn't hear about it until afterwards. I never thought it was a sequel.

I always thought this endless loop idea worked as well because Link had the Ocarina in the beginning of MM. If he'd been sent back to the past and then set out on his MM adventure, he shouldn't have the Ocarina because adult Zelda took it back from him in the future and sent him back in time to being a kid. So, future adult Zelda would still be in posession of the Ocarina.

I think I'm slightly getting off topic here, but esentially because of all this craziness I posted above, I just assumed the ending of Ocarina of Time created an endless loop.

I think I'm getting a headache now... :S

Midna666

03-30-2009, 01:09 AM

STOP STOP!!!! This time paradox crap make mah head hurt. Its not a paradox because Zelda warped him back to just after he had entered picked up the Master Sword.

Wrong Zelda sent Link back to before he ever met her,as we can tell by the fact that she's still living in the castle,when he goes to see her at the end of the game.

link to present

03-31-2009, 06:55 PM

Gildragon

04-01-2009, 03:46 PM

Well, you really can't know for sure when you will become a mod. Anyways, I'm getting off topic.

It's not a paradox because like timewarp said, the Ocarina gave the smae effect as returning the Master Sword to the Pedestal of Time, Zelda went back in time as well.

If this was true then wouldn't Ganondorf still be at large?

Twilight_Link10

04-22-2009, 06:04 AM

Well I htink that there is no paradox but why did sages remember that they where sages.........well I ges its the same as how link and zelda remember what went on even when it hasnt hapend yet.......whight Im confuzed

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Kaynil

04-24-2009, 02:04 PM

I think what we see about the sages in OoT is still happening in the Hyrule Link left to return as a child.

If you mean the men in twilight Princess, then I suppose it is up to each of us if we want to think of the sages as the 'not-awakened spirits' (since it is in the 'childhood split' or simply as a different way to portrait them.

zeldaoot4ever

12-16-2009, 01:59 PM

After I finished the game it was the first thing I thought. If Link was back to the time 7 years ago, he's just before when he got the Master Sword, so he had already the Ocarina of Time, the 3 gems and had already learned the Song of Time, wich means Zelda and Impa had already fled Ganondorf; the only thing that didnt happened is that Link didnt get the Master Sword yet (it's in the pedestal) and didnt open the Sacred Realm. So they still have hope that Ganondorf wont become the King of Evil, since he doesnt have the Triforce. But this is impossible, because Link meets Zelda in the castle, so she didnt fleet yet.
So Link is back somewhen before that day, but when? If he is at Hyrule (not in the forest), the Deku Tree is dead, but, how many gems does Link have? Maybe he has just gotten the Kokiri Emerald and is going to the castle as the Tree said. But then, how can be the Door of Time opened?
Zelda sent him back so he could regain the time lost. But time lost is the seven years only or could it be all the days he spent since the Deku Tree summoned him? If it's the first option, it is impossible as I explained in my first paragraph. If it is the second option, it is impossible too, as I explained in my secod paragraph. And it is impossible even if there are 2 Links, because if the Door of Time is oponed, Zelda had fled and the other Link, the one that is going to the castle as the Deku Tree said, he wont find Zelda.
Man, Link cant be back the same way we did in the game by placing the Master Sword in the pedestal, because when we do it, we are back after Zelda fled, but Link finds Zelda in the last scene.
It's just impossible. It seems the creator didnt think well about the ending...!
Oh... Headache

Deadlyknux

12-17-2009, 02:02 AM

Alright, I'm a new poster, but a Zelda addict so I hope I can help some with this confusion.

There are two parallel universes thanks to Ocarina of Time. The Child Time-line and the Adult Time-line. The child time-line starts, of course, when young Link sets the Master Sword back in the stone at the Temple of Time and goes to visit Zelda, she's surprised because he "tells" her everything that's going to happen. Therefore, Ganondorf is arrested and tried by the ancient sages. They try to execute him, but he overpowers them and then the Sages are forced to banish him to the Twilight realm. Which means that Twilight Princess is 100 years after OoT and MM.

While all of that is happening, there is still the adult time-line which is where Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass and Spriti Tracks take place.

Of course, this is not just my intelligence because I could just be pulling this out of no where and I would be a liar.

This is all confirmed by Eiji Aonuma, the director and designer of all the Zelda games, in a Nintendo Dream interview.

So yes, there are two Links, but since Link changed the past by getting Ganondorf arrested and adult Link killed Ganondorf, ther story goes on with both Links.

Confusing, I know.

Mikenike

12-17-2009, 10:15 AM

Your making a simple subject confusing. You know when you return the master sword? It is the same concept. The only thing that confuses me is how Link can complete something as an adult go back in time and it still be changed.. Weird but i have learned not to question Zelda. One way or another it will explain itself, or you will think about it more unti lyou realieze.

Mikenike

12-17-2009, 10:19 AM

If this was true then wouldn't Ganondorf still be at large?

No because he was killed. Everyone who was killed cannot be moved throughout time. The only reason that Zelda and Link were still able to move through time is because they were alive. It is basically them moving through time, so how would Gannondorf come back to life just by changing his surroundings.

This is simply a theory not logic.

Sorry for the double post.

Evil Space Fish

12-17-2009, 02:25 PM

Alright, I'm a new poster, but a Zelda addict so I hope I can help some with this confusion.

I too am a complete Zelda addict. If I could get drunk on these games, I would. I'd ride the dragon down the rabit hole buddy lol.

But seriously now, there is only one thing I am confused about. Zelda plays the Ocarina and sends Link back to his childhood. Just like pulling the Master Sword and putting it back, he appears with all the gear and stuff he got on his adventures as an adult. If he can keep his gear when you go back into the past to beat the Spirit Temple, than he kept it when Zelda sent him back. I'm confused because of this... if Zelda sent him right back to the Temple, than Zelda has already fled. Either Link knew where to look because of Impa or Zelda just sent him back to right before the door of time opened, which makes the most sense. That way, she wouldn't have fled just yet, but still suprised to see Link in her courtyard again with some equipment he got in the future and the story he tells her about the sages. This can lead to an early awakening of the sages and Ganon is stopped dead in his tracks before he even starts.

Death

12-27-2009, 08:22 AM

I always just figured that Zelda Sent Link back to before anything happened, but Ganondorf with sealed away to prevent him from taking over Hyrule again.
But the true paradox is "The song of Storms Paradox", i just can't wrap my head around that one.

NoRush

01-25-2010, 05:53 PM

Okay this is what I got from the ending speech between Zelda and Link and the very last picture that fades to light brown.

Zelda says that Link's spirit was trapped in the Realm ya? That means that the pulling of the MS from the Pedestal is like a catalyst that direct
his spirit to go either into the adult link or the child link. His spirit travels between bodies. So, at the end of the game, the picture is simply
Link living his life that is destined to be (which is this story: OoT.) So one would come to a time-loop conclusion. However, at the end, Zelda also
says to go back to Link's childhood and HIS time, to live HIS childhood how he should.

So what happened happened. And now Link can go back as a child and live all non-chalant....or go to Termina (:P) While Link is in Termina, it's not like
those events in Hyrule are just recycling themselves over and over, no one can be in the same place at the same time. Those events in the future
are now set in stone, they are GOING TO HAPPEN, but child Link is now in Termina.

Perhaps...seeing as how I completely just debated against myself, AFTER MM ends, and enough time goes by he is now the same age as adult link in OoT and
he completes those events, then he....gets transported....back...to a kid.....

you know what....i'm just gonna keep reading others' posts and maybe mine will have struck an idea in someone elses head.

CZG

01-26-2010, 10:03 AM

About the time travel the way I see it:

Mass IS. Although not a exact contant figure, it's not possible to travel trough time and run into yourself. You can only be at one place at a time, as you can only excist once at a time. If you would be made of some atoms (or polygons?) you'd be a part of creation. Whether it would be a a god that created everything, a big bang or a computercompany like Nintendo. The input never changes, nor do the consequeses of the that creation event, as they are related to each other.

The data is there and shall remain the same amount at all times. There may be events that drive the data or input in a different way, but the total always sums up to 100%.
Going back in time and have a duplicate of yourself would interfere with the whole world, universe or even some multiverse (parrallel worlds?) if excisting. Having to Link's would make another character to dissapear, or something similar.

Therefore, you can't go back in time, only forward (which is nothing new, we do it all the time, even now).
But, according to the story you ended up at the same time and place (about the same time and place at least, at the very end of the game) when you put the sword back in the pedestal, meaning you didn't travel back in time as this is not possible, but you travelled forward through time, which loops on itself at one place or time or event or another.
It has to, as we witnessed Link to (re)appear at the Temple of Time or the Courtyard of Hyrule Castle.

The loop is in the flow of time itself, not in some magical part of the story like the Ocarina of Time or the Master Sword.
The Ocarina lets you inluence how much time would be travelled, as seen in Majora's Mask. The Master Sword keeps you alive through this millions of light-years during journey. Or something. Maybe you can use the MasterSword to cut holes in space to create wormholes? -----> read on below....

The most basic form of time travel is to bend the flat parts of space itself, fold them together and make a gap in both flat spaces and go through. Unfold the space again, close the gaps and appear where you would have wanted to go in the first place. This way you can travel faster than a straight line from point 'A' to point 'B', by creating a shorter (straight) line. Then, if you could somehow pinpoint your current position in time and space, as well as the place you'd like to go and where that place would be in space-time, you could go there pretty fast. Not in zero time, but infinity close to that.
Being in the Temple of light for seven years passed in an eyeblink for Link.

This makes it possible to beat Ganon (seal him away, not killing him) and still be a kid, as well as having the Ocarina when you were walking around in Termina.

Timetravel is a difficult subject, but I don't think Nintendo made any big mistakes or errors with this.
Sadly. I liked Error....

Jesper

01-26-2010, 12:04 PM

I guess that timetraveling in this game works like teleporting. If you teleport, you have noone to fill in your place while you are in another place, right?
He gets teleported to another time, and only what he did in the past has changed in the future. You would also see that the guy in the Windmill is all...
Hold on. HOLD ON.
You might be onto something!
Seriously!
Link never played the Song of Storms to the man in the Windmill before you met him in the future...?
This only makes speculation. I know there is a word for such a thing, but is it possible? Maybe YOU are the second Link, filling in for the other Link's place.
The first Link travels in to the future. Then the past reboots, with you there. When you travel to the future, the other Link is back in the past?

You learn the Song Of Storms, then go back, the man is all happy, BECAUSE you go even more back in time. You meet the man, play the song, then he... yeah.
This post is getting all messy. Only Nintendo Logic can explain how the things are going in this game. Personally I do not really think there is 2 Links, it's only speculations, because of all the things that happen in the game.
Nintendo managed to fail a little there, if they never intended to make 2 Links in there. IMO it was never the meaning that this speculation would show up. It might be possible though...

Jesper

01-26-2010, 12:19 PM

MORE OF MY OWN THOUGHS!! :D
Maybe everything is turned on its head?
That the past works in on the future, and the future ACTUALLY works in on the past?
Or wait... Maybe the place where they seal away Ganon is actually frozen in time?
What if that place actually follows the holders of the Triforce through time? Like.....
DANG IT!
I always come up with new speculations...
The Master Sword is said to be the lock for the place where they seal away Ganon... (says so in a lot of games)
Ganon has "children" (i guess you can call them, or maybe two persons get a boy like Ganon by just pure luck, or wtf you wanna say), as well as Zelda and Link.
Ganondorf is getting aware of that his relatives actually holds pieces of the legendary triforce, and some of his power is revived? When Ganon, in OOT, before the drawing of the master sword, only has a little power? Link draws the master sword cause Zelda is aware of that Ganon is reviving again. When Link draws the sword, it unlocks the seal, and Ganon is fully revived, because all his power has slept in there for so long? I dont know. It's just theories.
And now my head hurts :P

Bluelink6

01-27-2010, 11:03 AM

Right...I reckon this:

After being sent back by Adult Zelda, Link went to see Young Zelda and told her what hapenned, This, we didn't see. So, She doesn't do waht She did, Which was to have link get the gem thingies. So, Ganondorf Didn't get them. So Hyrule Never suffered like that, etc. So, The Timeline Adult Zelda Resides in is now either destroyed, or Split into an alternate timeline. BUT.If Link was sent back to before any of the game happenned, including Him leaving the forest, taht means there's another link going around. So, he either goes there before that Link, or after, and Zelda tells taht link to stop.Bleh. This si so confusing.

Jesper

01-27-2010, 11:22 AM

I guess my other theory is onto something. The Master Sword works like a lock.
When Ganon is sealed away, Zelda puts the master sword in its original place, locking Ganon away for 50/100 yrs.
The Sword acts like a seal that isnt broken no matter what time traveling is done.
When Ganon is locked away he stays locked until 50/100 years later. No matter what. You can kinda say that the seal follows the two other holders of the triforce when they are at the exacy same time.
So Link goes to Zelda and tells her that Ganon is locked up again, and there is no reason to worry. For now.
Because later, the seal is partially broken, and Ganon can resurrect himself. When the Master Sword is drawn (ofcourse later), Zelda is aware that Ganon is resurrecting and want to stop him before he gains all his power back. When the Master Sword is drawn, he fully gains his powers. There.
Ach, my head is hurting...