Mysteries of Ikana: Stone Tower, the Garo, etc.

[Axle the Beast]

(I recommend reading the first post in this thread on Zelda Universe before reading my post, as a lot of my thoughts and the discussion in this thread is based in it.) (http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/n64-zelda/50295-stone-tower-babel-why-termina-doomed.html)

Okay, so you may or may not already know this from talking to me, but Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda game. Within the game itself, my favorite area is Ikana and my favorite dungeon is Stone Tower Temple.

But that's not the point of the topic. The point is... that whole area, all the characters and happenings involving it, and the whole story and history of the area... it's all very interest. Not only that, it's also very unexplained.

It's clear that Ikana is a kingdom, or it used to be, before it fell into ruins. The Garo invaded Ikana and slaughtered it's royal family. Igos du Ikana, the king, remained in the castle as a restless spirit. We know the undead plaguing Ikana were due to the evil from Stone Tower. From what we know, this evil was coming from Twinmold, who like the other bosses, was an evil creature which wore a mask with a giant imprisoned inside.

Okay... but what IS Stone Tower? Yeah, it's got another temple like the other ones in Termina. The temples were likely built to honor some diety or god, likely the giants (who are referred to as gods in one of Anju's Granny's tales, if I'm not mistaken.)

But Stone Tower Temple itself is freaking weird, not to mention it's located at the top of Stone Tower. I've done research on the subject, and into fan theories, but I'll get into that in a minute.

The tower and it's temple were very unique, and in my opinion, oddly significant. Even the area before the temple (Ikana) was like this. There just seemed to me to be more work put into it, and just more going on.

So, what was the tower built for? There's a lot of weird imagery in the temple, such as a hand pointing to the sky, and the temple as well as a few areas in Ikana are, to my understanding, the only places in the whole game where the Triforce makes any appearance.

I've heard theories, mainly here (http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/n64-zelda/50295-stone-tower-babel-why-termina-doomed.html), about what the imagery could imply. The popular theory seems to be that it's a disrespect to the gods (specifically the three Golden Goddesses, Din, Farore, and Nayru.) One example of this is strange figures in Stone Tower that have a long tongue extending down to cover their genitals, with the Triforce appearing in front of their tongue. The Triforce is usually associated with the Goddesses, hence the belief of it being intended as blasphemy or the like.

Another thought which occured to me... the Happy Mask Salesman mentioned a "dark tribe" which used Majora's Mask during it's "hexing rituals". He also says that they "sealed the mask in shadow." I had a thought, and while I don't necessarily think it's correct, it still seems possible...

What if the Garo were this dark tribe? I know what you're thinking. They're ninjas, why would they want to curse people with magic? Well, the Garo Robes create walls of flame around you, and the Garo Master uses magically enchanted swords. They also seem to know a LOT about Ikana...

In the topic I linked to above it also mentions ideas about Majora itself being the Zelda equivalent of the Devil. This sounds far fetched, but then again, MM is the only game in the series that ever mentions the term "Devil" (Flat says that his brother Sharp sold his soul to the Devil.)

I just had these thoughts and speculation, and wanted to see what you guys thought, as well as maybe spark an interesting discussion...

Oh, do you remember Gomess, that weird grim reaper-like miniboss in Stone Tower Temple? Don't you think he was odd? A totally unique, interesting creature with no plot whatsoever?

[Dabombster]

Hmm... Very interesting points. I never thought too much into Stone Tower Temple, I always thought of it as the only temple I could never find all the stray fairies in one go...

The Garos being the dark tribe could also be plausible, but I don't think it's true. Does it actually say in MM that the Garos invaded? I always assumed that the "Evil Wind" from the tower corrupted the king. Especially since he talks about how Link made it through the castle being guided by light...

[Axle the Beast]

Hmm... Very interesting points. I never thought too much into Stone Tower Temple, I always thought of it as the only temple I could never find all the stray fairies in one go...

The Garos being the dark tribe could also be plausible, but I don't think it's true. Does it actually say in MM that the Garos invaded? I always assumed that the "Evil Wind" from the tower corrupted the king. Especially since he talks about how Link made it through the castle being guided by light...
I know your pain. I don't think I even managed to figure out how to get into every single room my first time through... although maybe I'm not remembering correctly...

I agree. It kinda works, but I doubt it's true. Oh, well as far as I know they invaded. Well, perhaps invaded is the wrong word. Infiltrated. If I remember, they basically snuck into the kingdom and assassinated the Royal Family of Ikana. It has however been a while since I played the game. I've recently started it over, so I suppose I'll find out for sure when I get to Ikana.

[blackice_cc]

This is definitely an intriguing theory, but like Dabombster, I have my doubts. For example, if the Garo were the creators of the Mask, you'd think they'd be a lot harder to beat than they are. Also, if the Mask was just recently stolen from them, you'd think they'd mention something about that too. I don't know, but I think we'd need some more evidence from the game before we can say much about this.

[Onilink89]

Yes the whole history of ikana is kinda interesting.
And thats a interesting theory you got there.

I don 't know who built or what stone tower is. But one thing if certain, it has influence on the spirits of ikana.
Yes the temple is surerly unique. when you defeat the garo master in stone tower temple, he said something about "Heaven becomes earth and earth becomes heaven" or something like that. who knows what stone tower temple is, maybe its a resting place for spirits. But i get the feeling it has something to do with the dead and spirits.

But i'm not sure that this dark tribe is the Garo.
Now there is no evidence that they where or where not thisdark tribe. but somehow it doesn 't fit in the picture. i mean the garo are like ninja's, hexing rituals just doesn 't fit in if you ask me.

[blackice_cc]

I don 't know who built or what stone tower is. But one thing if certain, it has influence on the spirits of ikana.
Yes the temple is surerly unique. when you defeat the garo master in stone tower temple, he said something about "Heaven becomes earth and earth becomes heaven" or something like that. who knows what stone tower temple is, maybe its a resting place for spirits. But i get the feeling it has something to do with the dead and spirits.

That quote of the Garo Master there, was about being able to flip the Temple upside down. I mean, if you think about it, it's pretty obvious. "Heaven becomes earth and earth becomes heaven". But the fact that the Temple CAN flip upside down is plain weird in my opinion. Not sure if that has any relevance, but it certainly makes the Stone Tower Temple a whole lot more intriguing.

[Onilink89]

That quote of the Garo Master there, was about being able to flip the Temple upside down. I mean, if you think about it, it's pretty obvious. "Heaven becomes earth and earth becomes heaven". But the fact that the Temple CAN flip upside down is plain weird in my opinion. Not sure if that has any relevance, but it certainly makes the Stone Tower Temple a whole lot more intriguing.

yeah i know that, when i first played it, i really didn 't expect that the whole temple would REALLY flip upside down. but my question is, why can it flip upside down, does it has some kind of meaning? thats why i brought up that quote of the garo master.

[Welbanks]

yeah i know that, when i first played it, i really didn 't expect that the whole temple would REALLY flip upside down. but my question is, why can it flip upside down, does it has some kind of meaning? thats why i brought up that quote of the garo master.


http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/n64-zelda/50295-stone-tower-babel-why-termina-doomed.html

^^ this thread kinda explains this one guys theory on why it flips and what it means, its long but there some interesting stuff there

[blackice_cc]

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/n64-zelda/50295-stone-tower-babel-why-termina-doomed.html

^^ this thread kinda explains this one guys theory on why it flips and what it means, its long but there some interesting stuff there

I just read that huge post on ZU, and there is one major flaw with it. Termina is a different world, and the Giants are the only gods there. Also, Link didn't come out of a portal in the sky, he came through a portal that ended up below the Clock Tower. So yeah, it's interesting, but hard to believe.

[Axle the Beast]

Yes the whole history of ikana is kinda interesting.
And thats a interesting theory you got there.

I don 't know who built or what stone tower is. But one thing if certain, it has influence on the spirits of ikana.
Yes the temple is surerly unique. when you defeat the garo master in stone tower temple, he said something about "Heaven becomes earth and earth becomes heaven" or something like that. who knows what stone tower temple is, maybe its a resting place for spirits. But i get the feeling it has something to do with the dead and spirits.
Yeah. I forget who said it (I think it was Igos du Ikana himself,) but someone said that it was the evil from Stone Tower that was corrupting all the spirits in Ikana. This could support the idea that some aspect of Stone Tower has to do with the Devil (not necessarily Majora, though,) as Flat said that Sharp, one of the evil spirits of Ikana, sold his soul to the Devil. I don't know. Just a thought.

I kinda figured the "evil from Stone Tower" was probably just Twinmold's curse, just like the poison in the swamp was from Odolwa, the snow covering the mountain from Goht, etc.. Maybe there was more to it?

It being a resting place for spirits is an interesting thought, though. Perhaps the instances of the Triforce appearing in the tower isn't intended as blasphemy, but as a mentioning of the Goddesses as this is where the dead are supposed to rest? On the flip side (pun not intended,) perhaps Stone Tower is supposed to be more of a hell of sorts, intended for the most wicked people? I could have been created by the Goddesses, hence the Triforce is shown in the tower...

I also keep hearing that Stone Tower looks like a shrine to Majora. While I don't necessarily agree, it is an interesting thought.


But i'm not sure that this dark tribe is the Garo.
Now there is no evidence that they where or where not thisdark tribe. but somehow it doesn 't fit in the picture. i mean the garo are like ninja's, hexing rituals just doesn 't fit in if you ask me.
I agree. I really don't think they are the dark tribe, it was just a thought I had, and I thought it was worth sharing. It is obvious they knew a lot about Stone Tower, though. Could they have some affiliation with it?

I'm also curious why they attacked Ikana. There could of been tons of reasons, but I can't help but wonder if it was something significant.

I also had a thought, another one that I doubt, but it still sounds interesting. What if the Garo were used to the undead, and that's why they destroy their bodies when they die? ("To die without a corpse, that is the way of us Garo.") Like so their bodies don't get back up? I kinda doubt it, as all the undead in Ikana seemed to be the same people they were before death, not to mention the fact that not leaving a corpse when you die is pretty ninja-like anyway. Just another thought that popped into my head.


I just read that huge post on ZU, and there is one major flaw with it. Termina is a different world, and the Giants are the only gods there. Also, Link didn't come out of a portal in the sky, he came through a portal that ended up below the Clock Tower. So yeah, it's interesting, but hard to believe.
Though that seems to be a widely accepted theory, there is no evidence supporting the idea that Termina is a different world, only that it is a different land.

That said, I don't really think that whole theory on ZU is correct, but it brings up some interesting points that are worth considering, IMO. (Oh, by the way, when did it say that Link entered Termina from a portal in the sky?)

[Onilink89]

(Oh, by the way, when did it say that Link entered Termina from a portal in the sky?)


well in the game, he was falling trough the portal in lost woods and then landing on the deku flower. just because he was falling doesn 't have to mean that he fell from the sky.
Oh yeah, another thing is, that some people think that the twisted tunnel leading clock tower is the portal.

Anyway about ikana,


I also keep hearing that Stone Tower looks like a shrine to Majora. While I don't necessarily agree, it is an interesting thought.

Oh, yes there is a good reason to assume that. Because there is a huge stone monument that looks like majora 's mask, when you enter the temple.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/hyliandan/MajoraStatue.jpg

Well, i can assume that majora has some connection with the temple.
But the triforce symbols, now thats the hard question. the only reason i can think of is that the people of ikana in the past also worshiped the 3 godesses. but yeah the only flaw would be, this a legend in hyrule passed down by the royal family. sho what does it seek in a other dimension?

[Axle the Beast]

well in the game, he was falling trough the portal in lost woods and then landing on the deku flower. just because he was falling doesn 't have to mean that he fell from the sky.
Oh yeah, another thing is, that some people think that the twisted tunnel leading clock tower is the portal.
Yeah... I don't know why someone would think he fell from the sky...

I do think there is the possibility of him entering Termina through a portal, and it was likely in that underground forest area, though I think it was when he fell down that huge tunnel with all the weird shapes flying up at him.


Oh, yes there is a good reason to assume that. Because there is a huge stone monument that looks like majora 's mask, when you enter the temple.

Well, i can assume that majora has some connection with the temple.
But the triforce symbols, now thats the hard question. the only reason i can think of is that the people of ikana in the past also worshiped the 3 godesses. but yeah the only flaw would be, this a legend in hyrule passed down by the royal family. sho what does it seek in a other dimension?
I suppose that could mean something, but I also think it's possible that the monument resembling Majora's Mask is just a fluke... it still is possible it's significant.

Yeah, that's true. Ikana was a different kingdom that Termina (sorta, it was at least separate in culture, plus it was very old, existing a long time ago.) It's possible that them and them only worshiped the Goddesses. Or they could have been disrespecting the Goddesses. It's kinda hard to tell.

That is an interesting thought, though. It's kind of surprising no one's thought of that until now. Even me. >_<

[Skull_Kid]

This post is courtesy of Hylian_Dan at the Tainted World boards.


At the top of the Stone Tower, there is a statue of a hand that points to the sky. Every time I looked at it I wondered why it was there. When I was playing that part of the game last night, I looked at the architecture at the entrance to the temple and I noticed that the tower next to the hand looked very phallic... then I understood.

And now, I think I've solved a large part of the mystery of Majora's Mask.

The Stone Tower is the Terminian equivalent of the Tower of Babel. The story of the Tower of Babel tells of mankind's attempt to defy God by building a tower that would reach the heavens. Because this was an act of wickedness, God thwarted their plans by making every man speak a different language. Unable to communicate, the men could not continue building the tower.

How does this apply to the Stone Tower? Many people here have mentioned that the Triforce can be seen on the statues leading to Ikana and on the blocks Link crosses to reach the top of the Tower. Nintendo did not put the Triforce there accidentally, or as an Easter egg. The Triforce is placed on the end of the tongue of the statue, and the statue uses its tongue to cover its crotch. Clearly the architects of those obscene statues were aware of the Triforce's existence and were mocking the three goddesses.

The hand at the top of the Stone Tower is pointing at the goddesses, and the phallic tower next to it is saying "Screw you." The Stone Tower itself resembles a giant phallus, sticking out of the earth and pointing towards the heavens.

The ancient ones who built the Stone Tower were blaspheming the goddesses of the Triforce. Their plan seems to have been to open a portal in the sky that would lead them to heaven. But the goddesses would not allow this to happen, and they would not let this evil go unpunished. So they flipped the universe upside down.

The architects opened the portal, but because everything had been reversed it led them to hell. And in hell there was a being that had been sealed away during a previous age, a being that had attempted to destroy the world. The architects found the mask of the demon and brought it with them. And so the goddesses punished the builders of the Stone Tower by releasing Majora into their world. That world was then called Termina because it was doomed to end. The men who had found the mask honored it by placing symbols of it in all the temples, as well as in the desert realm where they had found it (Twinmold's lair).

Ages later, the Skull Kid stole the mask and the demon finally had a weak host it could use as a puppet. As Majora gained strength, it summoned the moon to come crashing into Termina, as it was the fate of that world to be destroyed. But then a child came into that doomed world, a child who was a member of the race that had been blessed by the goddesses, a child who had carried a piece of the sacred Triforce. That child was Link, and in three days he conquered the devil and saved the world (a possible allusion to the story of Christ). It should be noted that Link had entered a portal in the sky as he did this; was that the realm the ancient ones had tried to reach? As the moon was cast back into the heavens, the goddesses left behind a rainbow as a promise that they would not again seek to destroy Termina, as God had left a rainbow in the sky as a covenant with Noah after flooding the world.

Interestingly enough, though the goddesses spared Termina, they did send a flood to wipe out Hyrule.

Another thing I want to mention: In the Stone Tower Temple Link found the Giant's Mask, which was a sort of tranformation mask. Each transformation mask contained a being's essence. Was there, at one point, a fifth Giant? Were there two Giants in the East, and was one of them sealed away? The Giant's Mask closely resembles the mask of the Garo Master. Perhaps one Giant was the patriarch of the Garos and the other the patriarch of the Ikanans, and the ancient conflict was the source of the tensions that led to the war that destroyed Ikana.

Edit: Alright, I no longer think there's any merit to that idea about the Giant's Mask being related to some fifth Giant. Here's what I think of the Giant's Mask now: It was the weapon the Stone Tower architects intended to use to destroy the Goddesses. The Terminians loved their Giants, but some female deities were supposedly greater than the Giants. The Terminians thought that idea was revolting, so they selected the Giant's Mask as a weapon to demonstrate the superiority of the Giants. This also relates to the imagery in the Stone Tower of the Giants raping the Goddesses.

Some of the credit for these theories goes to this thread at IGN, although my theories are fairly different. I found that thread with a google search.

So, what do you think?


Edit: This thread has gotten pretty long, so I'm going to try to start summarizing a few of the topics discussed here for those who don't have time to read the whole thing.

- I believe the heart of Majora's Mask's story is the theme of faith versus doubt. This post explains this idea at length. Basically, Termina is a world without faith, which is why it is doomed. Link brings the spirit of faith to Termina, which is why the Goddesses are on his side, and which is why Termina is redeemed.

- Here's an excellent screenshot resource for stuff in MM relevant to this theory. Much neater than the mess I've created below.

- There is a major piece of evidence for this theory in the first room of the Stone Tower Temple. At first the central statue seems to depict a distorted face sticking out its tongue, but notice what it resembles when the tower is inverted:





It is a statue of Majora's Mask. The bottom part broke off. If you look at it in the game, an emblem was painted on the bottom of the statue, but part of it is missing, indicating that the statue was originally heart-shaped.

Note: It's been pointed out that when the tower is not inverted, that statue also closely resembles the true face of Majora.

Here's another comparison image.

- Here are screenshots for references. These were provided by several members, not just me.

The Stone Tower
The Stone Tower Temple entrance
A phallic pillar and the pointing hand
The interior of the Stone Tower
A view of the temple entrance and the four phallic pillars- The four phallic pillars likely represent the four male Giants. The Terminians may have rejected the goddesses of the Triforce because they refused to worship anyone other than their Giants. Notice the slightly sexual expression of the temple entrance's face- is it implying a rape of the goddesses? The builders of the Stone Tower might have been seeking to invade the goddesses' realm in the heavens and destroy them using the Giant's Mask as a symbolic weapon.
An early version of the Stone Tower

The front of a Stone Tower block
The side of the same block
The base of the same block, with the Triforce image- from the blocks leading into the inverted tower. Notice how the camera zooms in on the Triforce on its own, making it hard to overlook.
Another view of these blocks
A better view of them
The pillars in Eastern Termina Field
The inverted Stone Tower- Notice how prominent the Triforce design is here.
An inverted Triforce?- What do these triangles signify?
Another view of the triangles
One of the blocks inside Ikana Castle
The entrance to the Stone Tower- This has the same design as the blocks inside it, so the blocks are definetly from the Stone Tower, not Ikana Castle
A closer view of the entrance
Eastern entrance to Clock Town

A mysterious portal above the Stone Tower Temple- Is it a glitch, or is there meaning to it? The portal is certainly related to the warp to Twinmold's lair, so the question is did the designer keep it visible for a reason or just by accident?
A youtube video about the portal above the Stone Tower- This came from this thread at another forum, which discussed whether the portal may be a glitch assosiated with the warp to the boss's lair.

A map of the inverted Stone Tower Temple- Notice the linear path leading to the portal to Twinmold's lair. The entrance to this path is just above the statue of Majora's Mask, so the mask statue is in a way the gateway to the desert. The Triforces on the blocks outside the tower point directly towards Twinmold's lair.
Another image of the Majora statue, with the missing part and the emblem outlined
A closer view of the Majora statue
The backside of the statue
The Majora's Mask monuments in the desert- Notice how in these images, the mask has two horns on each side of the face, instead of four, just like the stone statue of Majora's Mask. The Mask image here also seems to have a nose and a mouth, and possibly a third eye.
Majora Monuments (Small Link)
Majora Monuments (Giant Link)
The Stone Tower emblem
A door inside the Stone Tower Temple
Boss door
Blood-stained emblem
Strange Mirror
Gomess- A few things to note: the name Gomess is similar to the word Goddess, and the skeletal body and scythe of Gomess are remniscent of the cursed Ikanans.
The Garo Master ...and his advice (1) (2)

Here are my thoughts on how the Goddesses flipped the Stone Tower:
The Light Arrows, weapons that are traditionally regarded as being sacred, are found within the Stone Tower Temple, in the most accursed corner of Termina. How and why did they end up there? The Goddesses seem to have placed the arrows in the Tower for its wicked architects to find, for the arrows' divine light of justice is meant to smite the wicked. The architects were deceived into firing the arrows into the red emblem of the Tower, an emblem the Garo Master described as being bloodstained. Perhaps the emblem actually contained the blood of those slaughtered by the architects. In that case, when the light of justice reached the blood it wreaked vengeance on those who shed that blood by flipping the Tower and leading them to Hell.

An eyeball emblem that is remniscent of Eyegore
The compass emblem of Termina in Majora's Mask's lair- Countless variations of this emblem are seen throughout the entire game. (example)
Map of Termina
Welcome to Termina
Rocks in a constellation pattern

Stairwell in Ikana Castle
Ikana Castle Throne Room
A paper airplane?

An engraving in the Clock Tower
A mural inside the Clock Tower- Notice that the same design appears on the brooch of Igos du Ikana.

A strange face in Woodfall Temple- The design is remniscent of some of the Stone Tower designs. Are those four things around the face meant to be phallic? Are there eyes (Majora's eyes?) looking out from inside the mouth?
Another Woodfall gargoyle
Patterns above a door in Woodfall

The official art of Majora's Mask- Note how the colors of the spike on each side of the face are the same colors assosiated with the four worlds of Termina: Green for the swamp, red for the mountains, blue for the oceans, and yellow for the canyon.
Majora's Mask attacks, resembling the sun- A major theme of Termina's culture seems to be a long conflict with the heavens. One of the first things Nintendo must have known about the world of Termina was that the Moon was falling, so as they fleshed out the culture of the world they probably focused on the significance of the sky and of celestial bodies. On the outer walls of Clock Town there are four different murals (North-storm?, South-rainbow?, East-sun, West-moon?) that all seem to relate to the sky, for instance, and the elemental theme of the game's final dungeon is the sky. And when Termina is saved, a rainbow appears in the sky to signify the end of the long conflict. Majora's fire attack seems to hint at this theme. I should also point out that red lines stream out from the eyes of the Majora statue, perhaps foreshadowing this attack. The centerpiece of Majora's arena also resembles the sun.
The body of Majora's Wrath, with markings that resemble breasts and ovaries- These markings, as well as Majora's feminine screams, physique, and behavior, all seem to indicate that the demon is a female. Considering the masculine arrogance of the Stone Tower architects, who pointed phallices towards the heavens, it is quite fitting that the Goddesses would unleash a female demon to obliterate Termina.
Another image of Majora's Wrath

Quote from Kaepora Gaebora:

Ho-ho-ho-ho-hoot!
This is a rare sight. You are a
fairy child, correct?

What business might you have in
this poisoned swamp?

If you dare not venture further,
I shall pass no judgment.
It is better that you hurry back
to town.

This swamp you are in has lost
its guardian deity. But it was
destined to fade anyway.

Hoo-hoot...And that destiny is not
solely limited to this swamp...

If you have the courage and
determination to proceed in the
face of destiny, then I shall teach
you something useful.

Before coming here, had you not
seen any of the stone statues
that bear close resemblance
to me?

I have placed those throughout
the land to aid the one with the
power to change the destiny of
this land...
Wherever he may appear.
[/quote]

Anyways, it is a weird place, and surrounded by mystery


A portal in the sky.... is it a glitch or not?http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o205/voxizertome/snap0994.jpg

a comparison image: http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/hyliandan/FacesofEvil.jpg

a triforce design in the light http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/1791/trihl8.png

proeminent depictions of the triforce in the upside down tower http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o205/voxizertome/snap0893.jpg

[Axle the Beast]

Skull Kid, I already linked to the thread in which that post comes from. Some of my points are based on that post. Maybe I should just add the link to the top of my post, since it's been brought up twice...

And... that "portal in the sky" looks added in to me...

[Skull_Kid]

I don't know if it is added or not, but when my GF gives me back my N64 imma gonna check it... also:

here's another one:

History of Ikana
The Theory

As you play through Zelda games, questions about hidden races and hidden kingdoms show up in the archives of Zelda. I am here to clarify the History of Ikana, which is so far only in one game, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask.

As far as we know, Igos Du Ikana, the obvious founder of the castle and kingdom, once ruled the Kingdom of Ikana. More information that I found out was that it is possible that the Garo Ninjas used the Majora's Mask to help the war against Ikana. For some reason Ikana and the Garo Ninjas were once in war with each other. Currently, in the time of Majora's Mask the Garo Ninjas and the Ikana knights are all dead.

The following is a description of Majora's Mask "It is an accursed item from legend that is said to have been used by an ancient tribe in its hexing rituals. It is said that an evil and wicked power is bestowed upon the one who wears that mask.

According to legend... the troubles caused by Majora's Mask were so great... the ancient ones, fearing such catastrophe, sealed the mask in shadow forever, preventing its misuse.

But now, that tribe from the legend has vanished, so no one really knows the true nature of the mask's power..."

More Ikana research brings us to Flat and Sharp, the two composer brothers of Ikana. The following quotes are by them.

Flat: Are you the one who freed my soul? I served the Ikana Royal family. I am the composer called Flat. The songs connected to the Royal Family that remain here were all composed by my brother and I. Oh...Sharp, my dear brother. He sold his soul to the devil and was the one who locked me in here... You who do not fear the dead, learn well the song that is inscribed behind me... And if you ever meet my brother, I'd like you to inform him... The thousand years of raindrops summoned by my song are my tears. The thunder that strikes the earth is my anger! ...I have made my request.

Flat's Monument: The thousand years of raindrops summoned by my song are my tears. The thunder that strikes the earth is my anger! Here is written the song that shall cleanse his cursed, black soul.

Sharp: What business have you in Ikana Kingdom, land where only the dead roam? This is no place for one as full of life as you. Or do you say that you wish to join the dead? That is fine... If that is the case, then sleep gently to the melody of darkness that the great composer, Sharp, shall play... and join the ranks of the dead. I understand your desire... You don't give up. I see you really do wish to join the ranks of the dead. Hmm? Somehow, my heart is eased. This melody has serenity to it... And yet... To one of the dead and darkness, like myself, a song like that no longer holds meaning for me. You shall end your futile resistance and quickly join the ranks of the dead. W-What is this? ...This song? ...N-No, it can't be. This song... Flat, my dear brother. Forgive your foolish brother who dreamt of the revival of the Royal Family... ...Ye who do not fear the dead... With my brother's song, you have broken the curse that was placed upon me. It is all thanks to you. We dead should not be lingering here in this land. It was all a trick of the masked one who had upset things. If you truly do not fear the dead... I wish for you to go to the temple in this land and sever the root of the evil curse that torments us. To do that... I, the only one who knows the way into the temple, shall direct you to the King. The King is in the ruins of Ikana Castle, awaiting the coming of the one who will break the curse. ...I have made my final request.

This quote is from the Poe Collector.
Poe Collector: Eee-hee-hee... Ikana Kingdom was founded on this land, stained with a history of darkness, drenched in blood... Even now it is a place where troubled, regretful spirits gather. If you are seeking the one who is stronger than you are, you may find strength here... from a group of spirits plagued by lingering regrets. If you have faith in your skills and might... then try saving these wandering spirits. Yee-hee-hee... It is impossible in your current state, but once you have eased your weariness and have gained faith in your skills... You must try saving these wandering spirits. Yee-hee-hee... You cannot heal all souls with that song.
That is the mask of the leader of the ninjas who once spied on the hilltop castle with the blood-stained history. With that, you may be able to call out their spirits that even now are still wandering. Perhaps you may be able to save the souls that wander beyond here... Yee-hee-hee.
Yee-hee-hee. You are wearing an interesting mask. That is the mask of the captain of the soldiers who once served to protect the castle on the hilltop. Now it is the gathering place for the spirits of those with lingering regrets. Until now they wander, seeking one who can save them.
Yee-hee-hee. What are you doing in a place like this? Ikana Hill beyond here is the place where spirits with troubles and lingering regrets wander. Even now, the spirits wander in search of one who can save them. It is unfortunate, but it is no place for one such as you... But if you must enter, then you must obtain the mask containing wandering spirits that can be found near the ranch. Without that mask, you cannot save their souls... Until then, I will not let you pass by here. Yee-hee-hee!
Yee-hee-hee. It seems, somehow, you have managed to send the Ikana's wandering spirits into peace... But outside of Ikana... There are still swarms of wandering spirits with lingering regrets... The ones in this room want to meet you again and have been waiting here for quite a while. Go see them if you feel like it... I'm sure they'll welcome you. Yee-hee-hee!

Igos Du Ikana: Oh, insolent one who has brought the unthinkable into a land as dark as Ikana... My servants have fallen namelessly before the light that guides you. However... You shall see with your own eyes...

Servant Ikanians:
1.You're blocking me! Get out of the way! I can still get him!
2.B-blocking you?! The reason he beat us is because you were so feeble! Don't blame this on me!
1.What?! Just try saying that again to my bony face!
2.Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble! Feeble!
1.Shut up, already! Grrrr!!! Don't look at me--I was once called the best swordsman in all of Ikana...
2.The greatest swordsman in all of Ikana? You? Feeeeeeeeble.
1. ...Draw your weapon!
2. Huh?
1. I'm telling you to draw your sword!
Igos Du Ikana : ...... How? Rrrrrr-Ah!!! Will you stop?!!? What fools! Haven't you begun to understand? The kingdom being ruined and us left in this state... Isn't it petty, little battles like this that have caused it? Believing in your friends and embracing that belief by forgiving failure... These feelings have vanished from our hearts. It all happened after somebody thrust open the doors of that Stone Tower. You who bring light into darkness, I am the King of Ikana Kingdom, Igos du Ikana. The spellbinding that had been cast upon us was broken by that light which you carry. To return true light to this land, you must seal the doors of Stone Tower where the winds of darkness blow through. But Stone Tower is an impenetrable stronghold. Hundreds of soldiers from my kingdom would not even be able to topple it. It is far too reckless for one to take on such a challenge. ...And so... I grant to you a soldier who has no heart. One who will not falter in the darkness. This soldier who has no heart is your twin image. A shell of yourself that you will shed when your song commands it. On my kingdom...shine the light of justice... The darkness in which my servants live is, after all, fleeting. Just what kind of thing true darkness really is.

Captain Keeta: I commanded the Ikana Army of Ikana Kingdom atop the hill. I am called Skull Keeta. Since being shamed by loss in a battle within my kingdom... I have waited here for one to come and awaken my soul. Young swordsman who has awakened and deftly defeated me... I shall rely on your power to fulfill my request. I ask you to take my soul, which rests in the fiercely burning flame... And convey my words to my men, who, even in death, remain loyal to me. Tell them the war has ended... Then I shall be able to drift quietly into sleep...

Pamela's Father when you ask him about the Gibdo picture: Are you curious about that picture? That is a mummified man. Its scientific name is Gibdo. A tale in Ikana tells of a treasure that rests at the bottom of the well on the hilltop. It seems the spirits of those who became Gibdos upon entering the well in search of that treasure still linger inside It's been said going down there is a petrifying experience. So even the mummy hunter may become mummified! I even tried to go into that well once myself... Strangely enough, though, I don't remember anything that happened there. Well, you never know what might happen, so it's simply best not to approach it.

Pamela's Father when you ask him about the Garo picture: Are you curious about that picture? That is the ghost of a ninja. Its scientific name is Garo Robe. They are merely shells that are empty on the inside. They're the shells of spies from an enemy nation sent to investigate Ikana. They have been unable to forget their living days. Even now their spirits--emptiness cloaked in darkness--continue to spy. According to rumor, those Garos frequently appear near the ranch on the far side of town. Although they are said to be shells, Garos are still ninja and they will not show themselves in front of people. Yet there are many sightings near the ranch... That's strange.

Ikana was fighting the Garo, apparently the Garo beat them and Ikana fell, but from within as well because of the fights amongst the Ikanese themselves, because they would place personal quarrels above duty to their country.

The Garo who were killed in Ikana remain as shells, once their body faded away only their robes were left, these robes wander endlessly to serve their purpose, that of the way of the Garo Ninja.

This is just information that I have been provided with. So with this I assume that at one point Ikana was at war with the Garo. During this war, both fleets ended up dying and were left with a curse placed my Majora. Now both the composers are also dead and the Poe Collector just collects lost souls of the Ikana. More information about this is that the graveyard that Dampe is at is also the same place they buried dead soldiers. My guess is that Igos Du Ikana wanted to get into the Stone Tower Temple for something and the Garo didn't let him. Igos Du Ikana said himself that him and his soldiers couldn't get in. King Igos Du Ikana's general was also defeated somehow. His general is Captain Keeta. I don't know why he is so big, but I am willing to bet it had something to do with the Giant's Mask. Also I am thinking that Termina isn't a alternate reality in the first place.

[Axle the Beast]

Wow... thank you, Skull_Kid! Hearing all that dialogue from the game itself really brings a lot of things to light.

Lets see...

I think that the Ikanians and the Garo may have been allies, and their leaders (like Igos du Ikana and the Garo Master) could have been friends. I think this because of Igos talking about forgiving friends... now he could have also been talking about quarrels amongst his people, but I still think that they could have been allies.

It also sounds possible that the Garo are the dark tribe... and they could have sealed Majora's Mask inside Stone Tower a long time ago. I'm pretty sure one of those things said the "darkness of Stone Tower," and it's been stated that Majora's Mask was "sealed in darkness."

Perhaps the Garo were keeping Stone Tower sealed shut, while the Ikanians were trying to open it? And in the end the war freed the mask... hm...

It is, at the very least, definite that all the trouble in Ikana isn't just because of some curse the Skull Kid placed on it, or some curse from Twinmold. Something was already there, though it could have been the doing of Majora's Mask in the first place. Then there was that weird desert world at the top of the tower... I wonder if that has significance? Maybe it was where Majora's Mask was sealed...

[Skull_Kid]

You are welcome, Axle, MM is also my favorite game, and it fascinates me a lot with all its mysteries, being this, and the creation of majora the greatest of them all...

here are some more theories:

Theory 1: The Garo As The Creators of Majora's Mask
The tower has clear connections to the Triforce, Majora's Mask, and the Four Giants. The fact that the Eastern Giant is held at the top of the tower seems to indicate that he was tasked with protecting the Stone Tower Temple. The presence of the Triforce also is puzzling, as whoever built the tower obviously had knowledge of its existence. It is possible the Garo, the shadow warriors whose leader is found within the Stone Tower Temple, were the creators of Majora's Mask, and that the pocket dimension Link fights Twinmold in was once a temple they had built to house the mask, or possibly the place in which they sealed it away since gamers learn that the "ancient tribe" sealed the mask away "in shadow." Due to the statement of Ikana's Igos du Ikana that his army could not topple the Stone Tower, it seems clear that whoever was inhabiting the temple eventually became enemies of the kingdom of Ikana. Igos also mentions that when the "doors of the Stone Tower" were opened, a curse flowed from its summit that laid waste to the entire region. This could possibly be the reason he and his soldiers attempted to climb the tower, to shut off the source of the curse and to destroy the ones that opened the doors of the Stone Tower.

Theory 2: The Garo Re-Discover Majora's Mask
Another more likely possibility is that the "ancient tribe" that created Majora's Mask built the tower and the Stone Tower Temple. Whoever built the tower had some knowledge of magic, since they infused the Ruby Emblem with the power to invert the tower and reverse gravity. This would also explain the appearance of the Triforce both within the temple itself and on the statues that line the way to Ikana Canyon, since the dark tribe was skilled in magic and likely knew of the Triforce due to its limitless magical power. Perhaps to mock the Triforce, they created Majora's Mask in a manner similar to the Fused Shadow of the Twili, but found that their creation caused entirely too much trouble. If this is so, they could have sealed the mask away within the pocket dimension of Twinmold inside the very temple they created it within as stated earlier before their race disappeared. Centuries later, the Garo could have taken control of the tower some time later as a means of a headquarters from which to fight the rival kingdom of Ikana, and accidentally re-opened the pocket dimension, rediscovering the mask in the process. The unsealing of Majora's Mask could then have created Twinmold to inhabit the pocket dimension and act as the source of the curse that turned Ikana into a wasteland. If this is so, the Garo could have turned the Stone Tower Temple into their base of operations and sparked a war against the kingdom of Ikana, in which Igos and his soldiers attempted to climb the tower to defeat the Garo and "close the doors" of the Stone Tower Temple to stem the curse that was slowly turning them into undead skeletons. Igos and his soldiers died in the attempt to climb the tower, (some evidence of this would be that after Keeta is defeated by Link he tells him, "Tell them the war is over" refering to his soldiers) and the Garo were cursed as well by the birth of Twinmold. In this manner, Majora's Mask found its way back into the world and into the hands of the Happy Mask Salesman years later. This would explain why both the Ikanans and the Garo are cursed as a result of the Stone Tower Temple and explain the unsealing of Majora's Mask since the Garo appear to have a little knowledge of magic and it appears unlikely the Mask Salesman would know the necessary magic to unseal the mask from its resting place.

The Temple
The tower might also be nothing but a protective cluster for the even more puzzling Stone Tower Temple, located on top. The fourth Giant is held there by the giant centipedes Twinmold. The most wondrous thing of all is the Ruby Emblem directly under the temple entrance. If the emblem is fired upon with a Light Arrow, gravity is reversed and objects are now attracted to the sky instead of the earth. This further implies that the tower was not built by humans. It also explains the numerous sub levels which keeps the tower from falling down to the sky. The gravity-flip must be restricted to Stone Tower since the seas and people in Clock Town are still there afterwards, time moves like normal however.

Also, the lair of Twinmold is reached by falling into the sky through a hole in the flipped temple. The hole differs from the other pits since sand appears to float in it and vaguely forms a whirlpool, the sky and sun can still be seen through it though. The hole appears to be some kind of portal to a pocket dimension, since when Link falls through it, he finds himself not falling into the sky, but in a seemingly endless desert where Twinmold lives. In the desert there are some small pillars with several Majora's Mask pictures carved into it, this might imply that this was the home of the creators of Majora's Mask. Exploration of the desert is very restricted since if Link walks too far of, he will sink into the sand at an incredibly rapid rate. This might mean that the sand on the arena is on a mountain, or maybe even an ancient temple (possibly the one used by the ancient tribe that created the mask

[timewarp]

I'm seeing a lot of people claiming that Ikana attacked Stone Tower, but that isn't the case. Igos says "Hundreds of soldiers from my kingdom would not even be able to topple it", not "Hundreds of soldiers from my kingdom were not able to topple it". His proposition is hypothetical, not historical.

Oh, and the portal that supposedly appears in the sky above Stone Tower isn't actually there, someone just edited it into a screenshot of the game.

[Skull_Kid]

About the portal, i already had thought about that... anyways... The Stone Tower Temple is an obsecene blasphemy...
Last night a weird idea came up to my mind: what if the four giants are the Terminian counterpart of the goddesses?yeah, they're four, but.... you know...

Also, i'm not sure about Majora being the devil, if you remember, when the kid on the moon gives you the Fierce deity Mask he says that you are gonna be the bad guy... and Fierce deity's name in japanese is Oni Link, wich means Demeon King Link

[ChargewithSword]

About the portal, i already had thought about that... anyways... The Stone Tower Temple is an obsecene blasphemy...
Last night a weird idea came up to my mind: what if the four giants are the Terminian counterpart of the goddesses?yeah, they're four, but.... you know...

Also, i'm not sure about Majora being the devil, if you remember, when the kid on the moon gives you the Fierce deity Mask he says that you are gonna be the bad guy... and Fierce deity's name in japanese is Oni Link, wich means Demeon King Link

Wait... doesn't Link's shield have four Triforce marks? Couldn't that mean that, if the giants are the Goddesses counterparts. There is a fourth Goddess? Perhaps this particular one could be this Goddess of Time we hear about in the game.

[Axle the Beast]

Theory 1: The Garo As The Creators of Majora's Mask
The tower has clear connections to the Triforce, Majora's Mask, and the Four Giants. The fact that the Eastern Giant is held at the top of the tower seems to indicate that he was tasked with protecting the Stone Tower Temple. The presence of the Triforce also is puzzling, as whoever built the tower obviously had knowledge of its existence. It is possible the Garo, the shadow warriors whose leader is found within the Stone Tower Temple, were the creators of Majora's Mask, and that the pocket dimension Link fights Twinmold in was once a temple they had built to house the mask, or possibly the place in which they sealed it away since gamers learn that the "ancient tribe" sealed the mask away "in shadow." Due to the statement of Ikana's Igos du Ikana that his army could not topple the Stone Tower, it seems clear that whoever was inhabiting the temple eventually became enemies of the kingdom of Ikana. Igos also mentions that when the "doors of the Stone Tower" were opened, a curse flowed from its summit that laid waste to the entire region. This could possibly be the reason he and his soldiers attempted to climb the tower, to shut off the source of the curse and to destroy the ones that opened the doors of the Stone Tower.
Yeah... it is possible that the Giants never really had any affiliation with the temples; they could have just been sealed inside them. But I'm not sure on this. Anyway, yes, I do believe it's possible the Garo created the mask. Not necessarily true, but possible. They obviously knew more about Stone Tower than anyone else, and the tower is obviously affiliated with the being known as Majora. The funny thing is that statue doesn't so much resemble Majora's Mask, as it resembles Majora itself. Majora's Wrath, that is (which I believe to be the true form of the entity, Majora, who was likely sealed inside the mask.)


Theory 2: The Garo Re-Discover Majora's Mask
Another more likely possibility is that the "ancient tribe" that created Majora's Mask built the tower and the Stone Tower Temple. Whoever built the tower had some knowledge of magic, since they infused the Ruby Emblem with the power to invert the tower and reverse gravity. This would also explain the appearance of the Triforce both within the temple itself and on the statues that line the way to Ikana Canyon, since the dark tribe was skilled in magic and likely knew of the Triforce due to its limitless magical power. Perhaps to mock the Triforce, they created Majora's Mask in a manner similar to the Fused Shadow of the Twili, but found that their creation caused entirely too much trouble. If this is so, they could have sealed the mask away within the pocket dimension of Twinmold inside the very temple they created it within as stated earlier before their race disappeared. Centuries later, the Garo could have taken control of the tower some time later as a means of a headquarters from which to fight the rival kingdom of Ikana, and accidentally re-opened the pocket dimension, rediscovering the mask in the process. The unsealing of Majora's Mask could then have created Twinmold to inhabit the pocket dimension and act as the source of the curse that turned Ikana into a wasteland. If this is so, the Garo could have turned the Stone Tower Temple into their base of operations and sparked a war against the kingdom of Ikana, in which Igos and his soldiers attempted to climb the tower to defeat the Garo and "close the doors" of the Stone Tower Temple to stem the curse that was slowly turning them into undead skeletons. Igos and his soldiers died in the attempt to climb the tower, (some evidence of this would be that after Keeta is defeated by Link he tells him, "Tell them the war is over" refering to his soldiers) and the Garo were cursed as well by the birth of Twinmold. In this manner, Majora's Mask found its way back into the world and into the hands of the Happy Mask Salesman years later. This would explain why both the Ikanans and the Garo are cursed as a result of the Stone Tower Temple and explain the unsealing of Majora's Mask since the Garo appear to have a little knowledge of magic and it appears unlikely the Mask Salesman would know the necessary magic to unseal the mask from its resting place.
As I stated before, I believe Majora was an actual being. I think this because it's called "Majora's Mask," as in, belonging to Majora. It also refers to the final boss's forms as "Majora's Incarnation" and "Majora's Wrath." This implies to me at least, that the being Majora is being fully awoken from within the mask. This whole idea makes sense to me, as the mask was intelligent. That intelligence could have been Majora. I think it's fully possible this "dark tribe" didn't even make Majora's Mask, though that's still possible. Majora itself could have been an evil god or perhaps some version of the Devil, and was sealed inside a mask by whoever built Stone Tower. These people could have worshiped the Goddesses, and thus why the Triforce appears in such creepy imagery; the power of the Goddesses overcame the evil, Majora. I do agree that it's probably more likely the Garo found the mask, but then again, they could still somehow descend from the tribe or the creators of Stone Tower. Once again, they seem to know a lot about it. They could have been protecting Stone Tower (like from the Ikanians,) or they could have just been using it as a base like you said. Who knows, maybe they were allies with the Ikanians until the tower opened and it's evil drove them all onto war.


The Temple
The tower might also be nothing but a protective cluster for the even more puzzling Stone Tower Temple, located on top. The fourth Giant is held there by the giant centipedes Twinmold. The most wondrous thing of all is the Ruby Emblem directly under the temple entrance. If the emblem is fired upon with a Light Arrow, gravity is reversed and objects are now attracted to the sky instead of the earth. This further implies that the tower was not built by humans. It also explains the numerous sub levels which keeps the tower from falling down to the sky. The gravity-flip must be restricted to Stone Tower since the seas and people in Clock Town are still there afterwards, time moves like normal however.
Interesting thought. It could also have been intended as a buffer of sorts to keep the evil of the temple away from the rest of the world. That seems extremely unlike, though. Oh, and I agree, only Stone Tower flips.


Also, the lair of Twinmold is reached by falling into the sky through a hole in the flipped temple. The hole differs from the other pits since sand appears to float in it and vaguely forms a whirlpool, the sky and sun can still be seen through it though. The hole appears to be some kind of portal to a pocket dimension, since when Link falls through it, he finds himself not falling into the sky, but in a seemingly endless desert where Twinmold lives. In the desert there are some small pillars with several Majora's Mask pictures carved into it, this might imply that this was the home of the creators of Majora's Mask. Exploration of the desert is very restricted since if Link walks too far of, he will sink into the sand at an incredibly rapid rate. This might mean that the sand on the arena is on a mountain, or maybe even an ancient temple (possibly the one used by the ancient tribe that created the mask
Yes, it does seem to be some sort of pocket dimension. Another thought is that it could be a portal to another dimension, rather than a small, pocket one. You point out an interesting fact, that the with the temple flipped, entering the portal would have you falling into the sky. I wonder if that's significant.


I'm seeing a lot of people claiming that Ikana attacked Stone Tower, but that isn't the case. Igos says "Hundreds of soldiers from my kingdom would not even be able to topple it", not "Hundreds of soldiers from my kingdom were not able to topple it". His proposition is hypothetical, not historical.

Oh, and the portal that supposedly appears in the sky above Stone Tower isn't actually there, someone just edited it into a screenshot of the game.
That's true, timewarp. It doesn't necessarily mean they attacked Stone Tower. However, it could imply that they did, and there is nothing saying that they didn't.


About the portal, i already had thought about that... anyways... The Stone Tower Temple is an obsecene blasphemy...
Last night a weird idea came up to my mind: what if the four giants are the Terminian counterpart of the goddesses?yeah, they're four, but.... you know...

Also, i'm not sure about Majora being the devil, if you remember, when the kid on the moon gives you the Fierce deity Mask he says that you are gonna be the bad guy... and Fierce deity's name in japanese is Oni Link, wich means Demeon King Link
Maybe, but I don't find it too likely. They don't seem powerful enough to be creator gods like the Goddesses were.

To my understanding of Japanese culture (and I do know a fair amount about it,) Oni is a creature. It is a type of demon, but more specifically it's an ogre. So the name means "Ogre Link," which could really just mean some kind of otherworldly power, not necessarily an actual ogre or demon. Then again, oni were large, and Oni Link/Fierce Deity Link is very large...

Anyway, I wasn't saying it was the Devil, exactly, but that it could be Zelda's equivalent. Still, I think I agree with you. I do believe it was likely some form of evil being, and maybe even an evil god.


Wait... doesn't Link's shield have four Triforce marks? Couldn't that mean that, if the giants are the Goddesses counterparts. There is a fourth Goddess? Perhaps this particular one could be this Goddess of Time we hear about in the game.
Eh, I don't think that fourth Triforce holds significance. I personally think it's just an artistic addition. As for the "Goddess of Time," I believe she was probably some lesser deity, beneath the three Goddesses.

That or maybe it was Nayru, since in Oracle of Ages, she had the power to control time, or something like that. Don't quote me on that, because I haven't played either of the Oracle games.

[Skull_Kid]

Chargewithsword, don't turn this into another Quadforce conversation xD
Anyways, Hylian Dan's theory is a very good one, but i found it has one major error... almost at the end, he says that maybe the goddesses unleashed a female demon(Majora) over the terminians, but, if they did so, why would the Terminians have a Temple honoring Majora and scorning at the Goddesses?

[ChargewithSword]

Chargewithsword, don't turn this into another Quadforce conversation xD
Anyways, Hylian Dan's theory is a very good one, but i found it has one major error... almost at the end, he says that maybe the goddesses unleashed a female demon(Majora) over the terminians, but, if they did so, why would the Terminians have a Temple honoring Majora and scorning at the Goddesses?

But I'm not kidding.


16 serious faces.

[Skull_Kid]

We are trying to do a serious thing here, so, don't ruin... Anyways, I just wish that someday nintendo focus again on this... The Stone Tower of Babel has some errors, but is pretty good...And i guess that we have added some good points, also

[Axle the Beast]

Chargewithsword, don't turn this into another Quadforce conversation xD
Anyways, Hylian Dan's theory is a very good one, but i found it has one major error... almost at the end, he says that maybe the goddesses unleashed a female demon(Majora) over the terminians, but, if they did so, why would the Terminians have a Temple honoring Majora and scorning at the Goddesses?
Agreed, that doesn't really work. I think it's more likely that the Goddesses, or someone using their power or worshiping them, defeated Majora and sealed it into a mask, building Stone Tower and whatnot.

I also don't necessarily agree anymore that Stone Tower was intended to be some kind of blasphemy.


But I'm not kidding.


16 serious faces.
Wait, whut?

[ChargewithSword]

Wait, whut?

The message needed 16 characters, so because it was so short I needed to say 16 *insert anything you want.*

[Axle the Beast]

The message needed 16 characters, so because it was so short I needed to say 16 *insert anything you want.*
Ahhh...

Oh, I had a thought. Previously I stated that I no longer thing it's likely that Stone Tower was intended as a sort of blasphemy/obscenity towards the Goddesses, and while I still think that's not necessarily true, I thought of another reason of why it could be.

Perhaps Stone Tower was built in honor of the being, Majora, before it was sealed inside the mask. It could have been a temple honoring Majora, while simultaneously disrespecting the Goddesses, who could have in one way or another been the enemies of Majora. After Majora was sealed into mask form (by who we don't know,) he could have been used by those who worshiped him, or by some new people, who eventually sealed him up in Stone Tower after they realized he (or rather, his mask) was more trouble than he was worth. So the dark tribe could have been either the people who worshiped Majora or just a tribe that stumbled upon his mask (in the latter case, they could have realized Stone Tower was a monument to him, and decided that was the best place to seal the mask.)

[Skull_Kid]

About the dark Tribe, the only contradiction i see is that the Happy Mask Salesman states that the dark Tribe created the Mask, and this Dark tribe has been stumbled on several games. In ALttP Aghanim mentions it, in FSA the Zuna mention it... so, who are they?

and here's a helpful video to remember details:

kb1fK46D3nc&NR=1

[MrMosley]

It is weird that the Triforce is depicted around Ikana and Stone Tower, but I have never thought it to be blasphemy towards the goddesses of Hyrule. Showing the Triforce on some monster's package dosen't mean thats what Nintendo intended for, actually I hight doubt that, seeing as how Nintendo, and Zelda in particular, attempts to reach mainly a younger audience. That specific audience would not think of such things being depicted in a Zelda title. I didn't anyway.

But I have head that there are various signs showing disrespect for the Goddesses of Hyrule other than that, but have yet to see or hear of exactly what those are.

As for Stone Tower, I believe it was the kingdom particularly in the center of control for Termina. Like Hyrule Town Market/Hyrule Castele, in Termina you have Ikana. Then something happend, the Stone Tower was constructed, and it pretty much died, sorta like Hyrule Town Market does whenever you go to the Adult Time.

But I mean I don't necessarily think that the Garo were the ones who killed everyone and constructed the Tower. Mainly I believe them to be just a band of ninjas that happend to perish in a land where the dead are of great importance. I do wonder though who it was who constructed the Stone Temple. According to king Ikana, they were the ones responsible for Ikana's demise, but it is strange how there is not much to offer towards who they were in particular.

My best assumption might be that they were the ones who used Majora's Mask during hexing rituals. This all could have occured at a time when Majora was still alive even, and he/she was their king. It would be almost like if Ganondorf was turned into a mask after he destroyed Hyrule Town Market, the Castle, and then the Gerudo were all destroyed.

[Axle the Beast]

About the dark Tribe, the only contradiction i see is that the Happy Mask Salesman states that the dark Tribe created the Mask, and this Dark tribe has been stumbled on several games. In ALttP Aghanim mentions it, in FSA the Zuna mention it... so, who are they?
If I recall, the Happy Mask Salesman never states that the Dark Tribe created the mask at all. Only that they used it in their rituals. I could be wrong, though I had been playing the game very recently.

Oh, and thanks for the video! ^^

As for the Dark Tribe... they are interesting. I'd like to hear more about them! ^^


It is weird that the Triforce is depicted around Ikana and Stone Tower, but I have never thought it to be blasphemy towards the goddesses of Hyrule. Showing the Triforce on some monster's package dosen't mean thats what Nintendo intended for, actually I hight doubt that, seeing as how Nintendo, and Zelda in particular, attempts to reach mainly a younger audience. That specific audience would not think of such things being depicted in a Zelda title. I didn't anyway.

But I have head that there are various signs showing disrespect for the Goddesses of Hyrule other than that, but have yet to see or hear of exactly what those are.

As for Stone Tower, I believe it was the kingdom particularly in the center of control for Termina. Like Hyrule Town Market/Hyrule Castele, in Termina you have Ikana. Then something happend, the Stone Tower was constructed, and it pretty much died, sorta like Hyrule Town Market does whenever you go to the Adult Time.

But I mean I don't necessarily think that the Garo were the ones who killed everyone and constructed the Tower. Mainly I believe them to be just a band of ninjas that happend to perish in a land where the dead are of great importance. I do wonder though who it was who constructed the Stone Temple. According to king Ikana, they were the ones responsible for Ikana's demise, but it is strange how there is not much to offer towards who they were in particular.

My best assumption might be that they were the ones who used Majora's Mask during hexing rituals. This all could have occured at a time when Majora was still alive even, and he/she was their king. It would be almost like if Ganondorf was turned into a mask after he destroyed Hyrule Town Market, the Castle, and then the Gerudo were all destroyed.
I agree to somewhat. I don't think it necessarily was meant as a blasphemy thing. Though I still think they could have meant something slightly along those lines (although probably not intended anything as obscene as most people think.)

I also have yet to see all of these supposed signs of disrespect. I've been playing the game again recently, so I'll have to pay attention when I get to Ikana.

Yes, Ikana Castle is definitely Termina's parallel of Hyrule Castle. I personally think they made that very clear in the game. Especially with the Royal Composer Brothers, Sharp and Flat. In OoT they served the Royal Family of Hyrule, and in MM they served the Royal Family of Ikana. One thing, though, is they strongly imply that Stone Tower had already been there a long time. It was when it's doors opened and some evil curse came out that Ikana was completely messed up.

I don't necessarily think the Garo are the Dark Tribe or the constructors of the tower, either (though I do still think it's a possibility.) But I do believe it was stated that they went to war with Ikana. I can't remember if it was stated that they specifically were the cause of the king's death or not, though.

Anyway, Stone Tower Temple definitely has something important to do with Majora, so I'd bet that whoever built the tower was either the Dark Tribe, or perhaps the people who created the mask (which may or may not have been the Dark Tribe.)

[MrMosley]

Since my original post, I have came across various other theories/information regarding the subject, and have sense became more interested in it that before. In my last post, I had said that I did not see many of the "blasphemis" things involved in MM such as the hand pointing to the sky, he relation to the tower built to the heavens in the bible, and all that, but once I actually got into it, it became very interesting.

I still have the same opinion as my first post, but the one thing that I think is very interesting is how the Stone Tower is very involved with Majora, and not just all the Triforce symbols everywhere. The hand pointing up is a bit strange, but it seems sorta hidden to me. At least I never noticed it until I actually saw the picture of it.

The main thing that intrigues me about the temple that I hadn't previously noticed was the fact that the doorway inside resembles Majora's Mask, and when flipped resembles the face of Majora's Wrath. That seems very weird to me. Also the little portal thing in the sky at the first of the temple is most likely a glitch or something of the sort, but it is weird too. The whole temple itself is just strange, and its something I hadn't previously thought about too much. But to me I don't think the Dark Tribe was the Garo still. I think they were something completely different that has yet to be revealed. But I do think they built the Stone Tower in honor of Majora. I would like to have the story go the way of the tower being built as blasphemy towards the goddesses of Hyrule because that would be quite controversial, but I don't know if that much thought was put into it.

[Skull_Kid]

I was reading a couple of things, and I have an interesting thought I would like to share:

We all know that HMSM run the Happy Mask shop in Hyrule's Castle town...
We all know he was traveling through THE WOODS when skull kid knocked him and stole his mask, and from what the images depict, it is probably the LOST WOODS, wich means that Majora is in fact Hyrulean and not Terminian, or atleast the tribe that created the mask was from Hyrule...
Another thing that this shows up is that maybe there is a real connection between the Fused Shadow and the Majora's Mask, maybe not...
Also, it implies that Majora had the ability to wander through both dimensions

[MrMosley]

I'm not sure about Majora being Hyrulean, but its a nice theory. I always thought it was the Lost Woods as well, but what I would think is that either the Skull Kid just knew how to get from Termina back to the Lost Woods (which dosen't seem very difficult consdiering Link knew how to get there, with his horse). Seemingly, Link didn't enter Termina until he fell down that hole. But then how did he get Epona all the way back up there ? Apparently, the Terminians know of a way to get to the Lost Woods easier than the entrance we saw Link come through.

Also, one thing I'd like to point out is that Majora's Mask didn't "take over" Skull Kid's mind until mid ways through the game. Sure, it had a major influence on him, but SK still retained his primary decision making abilities. Therefore, I don't believe Majora's Mask alone could get to Hyrule. If it could, then wouldn't it have taken over Hyrule? Especially if all the theories about Termina being anti-Hyrule were true, and they did, at one time, worship Majora and oppose the goddesses of Hyrule. To me, it would make more sense, if this was the case, that Majora would want to destroy the land it opposed, rather than the land that at one time worshiped it.

[sign of table]

His theory does make a lot of sense. The problem is there isn't much proof for it. It is highly speculative. But it is better than any other theory on the matter. (Well I'd say it is the only theory on the matter)

[Midna666]

What I always wanted to know about Ikana is how long ago was it wiped out?
I also always thought that Ikana was tied to Majore's origins in someway.

[Skull_Kid]

His theory does make a lot of sense. The problem is there isn't much proof for it. It is highly speculative. But it is better than any other theory on the matter. (Well I'd say it is the only theory on the matter)

You are referring to whom's theories... Anyways, Dark Link, at the point, all theories that have a minumum connection to the in-game story, should be cinsidered plausible... Maybe if Nintendo returned to Termina, those mysteries could be true

[MrMosley]

You are referring to whom's theories... Anyways, Dark Link, at the point, all theories that have a minumum connection to the in-game story, should be cinsidered plausible... Maybe if Nintendo returned to Termina, those mysteries could be true

Only if...

I'm surprised (sorta) that a lot of people don't want Zelda to go back to Termina, whether it be a prequel or future game. I think these may just be people who didn't like MM from the beginning, or just don't want to rehash old ideas.

But personally, Termina still has potential. Like I stated in another thread, a prequel could answer many questions which MM has left open. Personally, I would love to see a prequel game. My idea for a prequel is something that I think many people (especially those who enjoyed MM) would like to see and answer many of these questions. You can check out that thread here: http://www.zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2303

[Pinecove]

Relevent:http://www.scribd.com/doc/10360637/The-Great-War-of-Ikana

That should patch up any questions about the great war.

[MrMosley]

Relevent:http://www.scribd.com/doc/10360637/The-Great-War-of-Ikana

That should patch up any questions about the great war.

Is that even written by Nintendo? If it's canon, why wasn't it included in the game? Woulda made it so much better.

[Pinecove]

Is that even written by Nintendo? If it's canon, why wasn't it included in the game? Woulda made it so much better.

Hell no! It was written by a good friend of mine. It's something which puts abunch of INGAME quotes together to find out what happened in the war of ikana...jeez you people need to realize that the only thing Nintendo really confimed is the split timeline...


Last night a weird idea came up to my mind: what if the four giants are the Terminian counterpart of the goddesses?yeah, they're four, but.... you know...

The Giants are the counterparts to the light spirits from TP.


Also, i'm not sure about Majora being the devil, if you remember, when the kid on the moon gives you the Fierce deity Mask he says that you are gonna be the bad guy... and Fierce deity's name in japanese is Oni Link, wich means Demeon King Link

I had a debate about this over on ZU. Sharp says that his brother sold his soul to the devil....and when you talk to flat he blames everything on Majora's maks. Majora is the devil of termina.

[majora chaos]

one thing i discovered in my expanded research of zelda and majora's mask is that nintendo puts in more detail then you realize. something i discovered is that nintendo does put these details in. such as phantom ganon's sword in WW when you translate the hylian it reads zubora and gabora (the swordsmiths in MM) not to mention other such hidden clues. you have to realize that these hints are hard to pick up unless you are trying to find them. if you are a kid that this game was meant for then you wouldnt realize it or give it a second thaught. the idea behind these hidden clues is that people who are older that can take more time to theorize and take a fine tooth comb to the games would find them. but a kid who cares more about gameplay wouldnt. i believe there is a hidden message behind the stone tower temple. and i believe it is meant as a blasphemy. i believe the gods were angry at the sexist architects of the stone tower. i believe that they led the architects to the golden arrows so they could shoot the switch and be sent to majora's hiding place. i believe majora was just a demon of destruction until it was release. then the gods used the fierce diety (who i believe is a servant of the goddesses do to the triforce and moon emblems on the armor) as either a method to purify termina and not have it be destroyed. or as an emergency brake that would release the fierce diety if majora started attacking other worlds after destroying termina. i think the theory posted on Zu make a lot of sense

[MadameMajora]

I think the whole "Tower of Babel" is a solid theory, but I just want to say one thing. How would Termina even know about the 3 Godesses if Termina is an alternate dimesion? Termina's version of the Goddeses are the 4 Giants. And if Termina knows about the Goddesses, why doesn't Hyrule know about the Giants? Now, I know the Triforce is there and everything, but maybe it's for an entirely different reason.

My favorite theory is the one posted by Skull_Kid about the Garo rediscovering the Mask. I think this one makes the most sense and explains the Majora's Mask and Triforce symbols in the temple the best. Now, I think the "dark tribe" who created the mask (as said by the Happy Mask Salesman) are not Terminan (?) or Hylian, but something else, so they know about both the Giants and the Goddesses. The whole "dark tribe" thing interests me.

I know it's weird to bring up Twilight Princess, but is it possible that the "dark tribe" who created the mask are also the same as the "dark interlopers" from TP who created the Fused Shadow? Because the interlopers created the Fused Shadow as a way to become more powerful than the Triforce. If they are the same people, this could be why the Triforce is in the temple. (or maybe they're the Twili?)

Just an idea ^.^

[majora chaos]

according to the tower of babel theory the golden goddeses aproached the terminians but the terminians rejected them