Termina=Twilight Realm?

[Zemen]

have not done much research or thinking on this one, but ive come up with some interesting stuff while thinking about it shortly.

the twilight realm is a completely different realm. yes, there is a mirror that leads to it, but we do not really know where that mirror came from.

the twilight realm is an alternate dimension, basically. so is termina. what if the twilight realm IS termina?

think about it. the mask that Midna wears, very closesly resembles Majora's Mask. twilight is defined as the light in the sky either in the very early morning when the sun is rising or in the late evening when it is setting. MM revolves around time, morning and night and most of all, the moon.

what if, after Link leaves termina, something happens and the moon ends up crashing into termina anyway? instead of destroying everything though, it just completely alters the entire dimension into the twilight realm. a realm, where without the moon, it is stuck in a permanent state of twilight.

or even another idea would be, what if the mask that Midna wears is the remains of Majora's Mask? maybe somehow, Majora went on a rampage after Link left, and someone else stood up to him (Midna), but before she could defeat majora, everything was altered. when she defeated majora, she kept the remains of his mask which allows midna to have the powers she has when shes in her imp form (and even possibly her twilight form).

i know there is evidence about the twilight being the Gerudo, but i just think that its fun to think about termina because we have no idea what happened to that place after link left. they dont have a hero to constantly save them so its very possible that they somehow turned into this strange realm where everything went to hell.

[elementskater995]

I remember when I was a kid the moon always scared me!! ....it still kinda does lol

I cant see how minda's mask resembles MM but in MM it was revolving not around a time of day like the Twighlight relm, but around time itself. You always felt you were running out of time.

[Zemen]

I remember when I was a kid the moon always scared me!! ....it still kinda does lol

I cant see how minda's mask resembles MM but in MM it was revolving not around a time of day like the Twighlight relm, but around time itself. You always felt you were running out of time.

well thats the point. if the moon crashed, time wouldnt matter anymore to them. in the twilight realm, it doesnt even seem like time passes at all.

if you look at this picture, the eye on Midna's mask is very similar to the eye on Majora's Mask. yes, the rest of midnas mask has like horns and stuff and is made out of stone, but that could just be years of her having the mask, she decided to make changes to it. my thought is that if she fought Majora and beat him and turned him back into a mask, she broke the mask in order to keep its power from being used once again and she keeps part of the mask for safe keeping.

[blackice_cc]

Interesting theory, but it is a bit far out. I mean, what happened to the sun of Termina then? And a huge moon altering the land instead of destroying it.... pretty unlikely, don't you think? More likely that if Termina is the Twilight realm, Majora somehow succeeded in possessing someone else, and that person made the Twilight Realm using it's power, and maybe something else too, because I doubt Majora's Mask is THAT powerful.

Also, isn't twilight only the light just before the sunset? I've never heard of it being the in the early hours too. Suppose I could be wrong though.

[Zemen]

Interesting theory, but it is a bit far out. I mean, what happened to the sun of Termina then? And a huge moon altering the land instead of destroying it.... pretty unlikely, don't you think? More likely that if Termina is the Twilight realm, Majora somehow succeeded in possessing someone else, and that person made the Twilight Realm using it's power, and maybe something else too, because I doubt Majora's Mask is THAT powerful.

Also, isn't twilight only the light just before the sunset? I've never heard of it being the in the early hours too. Suppose I could be wrong though.

it wouldnt be far fetched at all if the moon caused things to go into the chaos. the moon had a face, eyes, mouth and teeth for crying out loud! if thats not a dead give away that something is messed up in termina then i dont know what is. if you look up the definition of twilight it will say the light just before sunrise or just before sunset.

with that in mind, this is what i think would have happened to the sun. during twilight, the moon is landing while the sun is rising. if the moon crashes into termina then it will never set which means the sun will never rise causing a permanant state of twilight, hence the twilight realm.

and as i stated before, termina has no hero of their own. they relied on Link who is from a completely different dimension.

Hyrule falls under attack time and time again. whos to say that termina isnt the same way? many believe that OoT is the first in the timeline. if this is true then that means ganondorf was the first really big threat to Hyrule as one stand alone being. if termina works the same way, then Majora was the first really big stand alone threat to termina possibly.

the only difference is that when Hyrule continues to get in trouble over the years (in other zelda games) there is always a link to save the day, but termina does not have a link. their link was Hyrules link which means that when they get in trouble they dont have anyone to save them. it would be very easy for them to be taken over by a super power in the absence of a hero.

i guess im gonna go back to this evidence. not sure if anyone looked at the picture i posted but the eye on Midnas mask closesly resembles the eye on Majora's Mask. dont know why that interests me so much but i know that others have noticed this too.

[Petman1325]

Well, you present good facts there. That is quite an interesting theory. It could be that when the moon crashed, everything turned into chaos. Zant may have found the place and populated it with strange creatures. And concidering that Termina is a parallel dimension of Hyrule, and has similar characters, that could explain the spirits of the Twilight Realm.

The mask is also another good theory. Maybe once the mask was defeated and no longer possessed by the evil power inside, it may have turned into stone. There, in Termina/Twilight Realm, Minda may have come upon the mask and have worn it. The horns could've been added for some fashion, due to the twisted designs of the Twilight Realm.

[Zemen]

Well, you present good facts there. That is quite an interesting theory. It could be that when the moon crashed, everything turned into chaos. Zant may have found the place and populated it with strange creatures. And concidering that Termina is a parallel dimension of Hyrule, and has similar characters, that could explain the spirits of the Twilight Realm.

The mask is also another good theory. Maybe once the mask was defeated and no longer possessed by the evil power inside, it may have turned into stone. There, in Termina/Twilight Realm, Minda may have come upon the mask and have worn it. The horns could've been added for some fashion, due to the twisted designs of the Twilight Realm.

i like your idea with the mask. and youre right about the spirits in the twilight realm. it would help explain why there are regular human spirits in the twilight realm. many people believe the gerudo are the twilight people but how come there are so many non gerudo spirits in the twilight realm (this is rhetorical)

[Skull_Kid]

It is a bit farfetched, imo... What if some of the Ancestors of the Twili made it to termina?That would be more logical, and would also explain the Triforce cravings on Stone Tower Temple...
Termina can't probably be the Twilight Realm, it doesn't make sense, no matter how well you try to argumentate

[blackice_cc]

i like your idea with the mask. and youre right about the spirits in the twilight realm. it would help explain why there are regular human spirits in the twilight realm. many people believe the gerudo are the twilight people but how come there are so many non gerudo spirits in the twilight realm (this is rhetorical)

Wait a minute here. There were no beings other than Twili, Link and Ganondorf inside of the actual Twilight realm, and both Link and Ganondorf changed form. When Hyrule is covered in Twilight, it does not make it the Twilight realm. It's simply covered in it. Any non-Twili to venture into the Twilight realm/Twilight covered areas cannot retain their normal form. Therefor they must change into something else, usually spirit type things.

The Midna's Mask being Majora's Mask is a very good theory in my opinion, but if it is true it wouldn't prove that Termina has connections with the Twilight realm. Nobody knows what happened to the Mask after the events of MM, and it could've fallen into the hands of the Twili, who were not yet Twili (possibly, according to some theories, the Gerudo of course).

All in all, I think this theory doesn't have enough solid fact. It's too much assumption.

[Skull_Kid]

Also, if you payed attention to the ending of TP, you should notice that the Fused Shadow ended buried in Hyrule Field... so...

[Zemen]

Wait a minute here. There were no beings other than Twili, Link and Ganondorf inside of the actual Twilight realm, and both Link and Ganondorf changed form. When Hyrule is covered in Twilight, it does not make it the Twilight realm. It's simply covered in it. Any non-Twili to venture into the Twilight realm/Twilight covered areas cannot retain their normal form. Therefor they must change into something else, usually spirit type things.

The Midna's Mask being Majora's Mask is a very good theory in my opinion, but if it is true it wouldn't prove that Termina has connections with the Twilight realm. Nobody knows what happened to the Mask after the events of MM, and it could've fallen into the hands of the Twili, who were not yet Twili (possibly, according to some theories, the Gerudo of course).

All in all, I think this theory doesn't have enough solid fact. It's too much assumption.

i was never calling hyrule the twilight realm so i dont know where you got the whole "if hyrule is in twilight it isnt the twilight realm" argument from cus i never said that.

and if the mask that midna wears is a part of majoras mask then that would mean that termina has connections. termina is the only place/game/world that had majoras mask in it except for a whole 2 minute cut scene at the beginning of MM where you are in hyrule and bump into skull kid. majora was beaten IN termina so that would be where his remains (aka a broken mask) would be. link is the only person to ever travel to termina from a different world, that we know of (besides skull kid who probably made the portal to that world with majoras mask). if skull kid didnt have the mask he would never have ended up there, IMO.

i doubt that if someone in termina found majoras mask, they found a way to bring it back to hyrule, so that the gerudo could find it and take it to the twili realm when they get banished.

if the mask IS majoras mask, then it most definitely means there is a connection between termina and the twilight people.

and you said that someone of the twilight realm could have found it before they were twili. well, if someone in termina found it, then later on termina becomes the twilight realm then that means someoen found it before they became twili, just like you said.

and this doesnt change the fact that the "spirit type things" that are in the twilight realm are obviously NOT gerudo.

[blackice_cc]

i was never calling hyrule the twilight realm so i dont know where you got the whole "if hyrule is in twilight it isnt the twilight realm" argument from cus i never said that.

and if the mask that midna wears is a part of majoras mask then that would mean that termina has connections. termina is the only place/game/world that had majoras mask in it except for a whole 2 minute cut scene at the beginning of MM where you are in hyrule and bump into skull kid. majora was beaten IN termina so that would be where his remains (aka a broken mask) would be. link is the only person to ever travel to termina from a different world, that we know of (besides skull kid who probably made the portal to that world with majoras mask). if skull kid didnt have the mask he would never have ended up there, IMO.

i doubt that if someone in termina found majoras mask, they found a way to bring it back to hyrule, so that the gerudo could find it and take it to the twili realm when they get banished.

if the mask IS majoras mask, then it most definitely means there is a connection between termina and the twilight people.

and you said that someone of the twilight realm could have found it before they were twili. well, if someone in termina found it, then later on termina becomes the twilight realm then that means someoen found it before they became twili, just like you said.

and this doesnt change the fact that the "spirit type things" that are in the twilight realm are obviously NOT gerudo.

Ok, I'm not exactly sure what you meant here with that last sentence. There are no spirit type things in the actual Twilight realm, so you must be talking about Hyrule covered in Twilight. Well, the people of Hyrule are turned into spirits when they are in twilight, but that most certainly wouldn't turn them into Gerudo. So you confuse me here.

And the Skull Kid had been to Termina before the events of MM, as it clearly shows in the game. He had been in Termina even before he found the Mask. Remember that carving on the tree trunk by the entrance to the swamp? Well, remember how there was a cut scene of Tatl's memory showing the Skull Kid and the fairies carving that? So yeah, Skull Kid could therefore not have created the portal Link falls through, having been in Termina before hand.

But with the Majora's-Mask-could-be-the-Fused-Shadows thing, the only proof you have for that is slight resemblances. Even if it were, it was most likely that the Happy Mask salesman got the Mask eventually, and since he was in Hyrule in OoT he must know of the portal, so he could've taken it back.

[timewarp]

and if the mask that midna wears is a part of majoras mask
It isn't. It's got the same eye, which may imply similar origins, but that's it. The fused shadow and Majora's Mask are clearly not the same.

then that would mean that termina has connections. termina is the only place/game/world that had majoras mask in it except for a whole 2 minute cut scene at the beginning of MM where you are in hyrule and bump into skull kid.
True, but the origins of the mask are never made clear. The Happy Mask Salesman states only that it was used by an ancient tribe, and later sealed away, and he went to great lengths to find it.

majora was beaten IN termina so that would be where his remains (aka a broken mask) would be.
There were no remains to Majora. At the end of Majora's Mask, the Happy Mask Salesman is in possession of the mask again, and the only difference is that the evil has left the mask. He also mentions that he is leaving this place and continuing on his travels, so it is unlikely that the mask remained in Terminia.

link is the only person to ever travel to termina from a different world, that we know of (besides skull kid who probably made the portal to that world with majoras mask). if skull kid didnt have the mask he would never have ended up there, IMO.
Link, Skull Kid, and the Happy Mask Salesman all came from Hyrule to Terminia via the Lost Woods. Additionally, in one cutscene in Majora's Mask, Skull Kid is seen taking Majora's Mask from the Happy Mask Salesman, who is unconscious, in Terminia Field. Skull Kid therefore couldn't have created a portal to Terminia with the mask, the portal must have already existed. (Or maybe Terminia isn't in some parallel dimension. It could just be located geographically east of Hyrule, connected by the Lost Woods. The Happy Mask Salesman does say that his travels take him all across the world, so it is plausible that both Hyrule and Terminia exist on the same world.)


i doubt that if someone in termina found majoras mask, they found a way to bring it back to hyrule, so that the gerudo could find it and take it to the twili realm when they get banished.
It is entirely plausible that the Happy Mask Salesman at one point returns to Hyrule, along with Majora's Mask. But this explanation isn't very likely, as at that point, Majora's Mask had no powers any longer. My best guess would be that the ancient tribe that used the mask, and the dark interlopers are either the same group of people, or are closely related to one another. This would explain the similarity in design of Majora's Mask and the Fused Shadows. It would also explain Fierce Deity's Mask, and why it seems to resemble the dark interlopers.

[Zemen]

i wasnt being too serious about this theory. i just want to know what happened to termina, really. every game that takes place in a town or land other than hyrule is at least obviously from the same world, but with termina they make it look like link fell into another dimension. i doubt that termina is just a land east of hyrule. link clearly FALLS into termina. it would be impossible for it to be underground from hyrule.

[Chris]

Here comes another argument...

Well, I believe that it is impossible for the moon to crush the city, killing link BTW, and only turn it into Twilight. That just makes no sense. In the game, it shows the moon killing link, I know because I have ran out of time before.

And just because the masks look the same doesn't mean they have a "connection". Nintendo usually uses simaler designs for Zelda games.

But you never know, I am just saying I don't believe your theroy.

[UsayEldaZay]

okay there deff WAS other things in the twili realm did you not see those people type things that are beasts and when you get the chrystle ball thingy(idk what its called) then they turn into normal?

[Zemen]

Here comes another argument...

Well, I believe that it is impossible for the moon to crush the city, killing link BTW, and only turn it into Twilight. That just makes no sense. In the game, it shows the moon killing link, I know because I have ran out of time before. it would make perfect sense. twilight is the light before the sun rises. if the sun rises, that means the moon is setting. if the moon never sets all the way (because it crashes) the sun never rises all the way, hence peremanent twilight, hence the twilight realm. and as the post above me states, when the twilight beasts are turned back to normal they are normal humans or whatever which is what i was trying to say before. they are obviously not gerudo, so who are they? (rhetorical question. dont answer)

And just because the masks look the same doesn't mean they have a "connection". Nintendo usually uses simaler designs for Zelda games.

But you never know, I am just saying I don't believe your theroy.


im pretty sure i said i dont exactly believe my theory either..just something to think about because termina is NEVER mentioned ever again.

and i never said that the moon would crash with link there. i specifically said AFTER link goes back to hyrule, what if something happened causing the moon to crash still causing the place to be in eternal twilight, hence the twilight realm. its just an idea.

[kreebby]

Absolutely not.
If anything, it's the Dark World from Link to the Past.
As in the dark world, your form changes.

Only this time it's either to a spirit or a hideous monster.
Also, the dark world was another version of Hyrule.
The golden land, they called it. It was corrupted.

Just as, over time, the Twilight Realm turned into a realm of despair.

[timewarp]

Absolutely not.
If anything, it's the Dark World from Link to the Past.
As in the dark world, your form changes.

Only this time it's either to a spirit or a hideous monster.
Also, the dark world was another version of Hyrule.
The golden land, they called it. It was corrupted.

Just as, over time, the Twilight Realm turned into a realm of despair.

Er, no, the Dark World in ALttP is the Sacred Realm, corrupted after Ganondorf touched the Triforce.

[Judai]

No it's not because Termina is another dimension, while the TR is a realm. They have no connection at all, and the only thing that MM and the FS match up is their back stories, but it's not enough proof to have TR = Termina. Another thing is how come Termina is not covered in Twilight? Why isn't there a clock tower in the TR. Not enough info.

[Moosh_is_cool]

Wow. I actually agree with Zemen. Incredible :lol:. Anyway, I think Zemen's theory sounds possible. For one thing, the Moon. That idea with the Moon crashing, and the impact altering Termina could've happened. Termina wasn't mentioned after MM, so you never know for sure. The only thing wrong with that, IMO, is that the Moon was being corrupted by Majora, correct? So that would mean after you kill Majora, the Moon would just be, well, a Moon. But it could happen if another evil came to Termina after Link left. As stated before, Termina had no other hero. So if a different evil came, or even if Majora came back, Termina would be defenseless. And if you're thinking "There's no way Majora could return! He's dead!", might I remind you of Ganon? He returned sevral times after death. Another thing, the Mask. This theory seems less likely, because the only real similarity is the eye. Other than that, they are completely different. So, all in all, I think this theory is possible, but I don't agree fully.

[Zemen]

No it's not because Termina is another dimension, while the TR is a realm. They have no connection at all, and the only thing that MM and the FS match up is their back stories, but it's not enough proof to have TR = Termina. Another thing is how come Termina is not covered in Twilight? Why isn't there a clock tower in the TR. Not enough info.

well according to Miyamoto, there is 100 years between TP and OoT, and MM is right after OoT so its not much shorter between MM and TP. there are A LOT of things that can happen in 100 years...you cant use the fact that there isnt a clock tower as a reason that its not termina. anything could have happened to that clock tower over the course of 100 years. here is an example, a bomb can destroy a building in a matter of minutes/hours. so why cant a clock tower disappear/collapse/be destroyed in 100 years?

also you cant use the argument that Termina is a dimension, not a realm because no one kows for sure what termina is. and i would LOVE for you to tell me the difference between a dimension and a realm, because IMO they are the same thing.

and if a dimension and realm ARE different, who is to say that termina isnt a realm? no one knows for sure. link uses a mirror to get to the twilight realm. he uses a hole to get to termina. both sound like portals to me.

[blackice_cc]

well according to Miyamoto, there is 100 years between TP and OoT, and MM is right after OoT so its not much shorter between MM and TP. there are A LOT of things that can happen in 100 years...you cant use the fact that there isnt a clock tower as a reason that its not termina. anything could have happened to that clock tower over the course of 100 years. here is an example, a bomb can destroy a building in a matter of minutes/hours. so why cant a clock tower disappear/collapse/be destroyed in 100 years?

also you cant use the argument that Termina is a dimension, not a realm because no one kows for sure what termina is. and i would LOVE for you to tell me the difference between a dimension and a realm, because IMO they are the same thing.

and if a dimension and realm ARE different, who is to say that termina isnt a realm? no one knows for sure. link uses a mirror to get to the twilight realm. he uses a hole to get to termina. both sound like portals to me.

There are still too many holes in your theory though. The whole moon changing it into a Twilight Realm instead of destroying it is a bit weird, and I still don't get how that would affect the sun. If the moon was gone, it wouldn't change how Earth orbits around the sun, or stop it permanently or anything.
The Clock Tower doesn't really do anything to disprove the theory, no. I mean, there are some large towers in the Twilight Realm, and one of them could have been the Clock Tower once, if Zemen's theory is correct.

[Zemen]

There are still too many holes in your theory though. The whole moon changing it into a Twilight Realm instead of destroying it is a bit weird, and I still don't get how that would affect the sun. If the moon was gone, it wouldn't change how Earth orbits around the sun, or stop it permanently or anything.
The Clock Tower doesn't really do anything to disprove the theory, no. I mean, there are some large towers in the Twilight Realm, and one of them could have been the Clock Tower once, if Zemen's theory is correct.

its a videogame...the moon had a freaking face. you cant use real world logic (the earth still orbiting despite the moon crashing) to disprove a videogame theory. if the moon is technically a living thing in termina, what if the sun is too? they have a job and that job is to rise and set on the proper time. the moon crashes while its setting so it never sets all the way. the sun sees this while its rising and says to himself "i cant rise if he doesnt set" and now there is twilight! :D

[blackice_cc]

I think this is one of those theories where you can tell it's not true for lack of evidence for it. There are tons of theories like that, and they are all very unlikely, but can't be proven wrong. But where is the evidence supporting this? I don't know, I just think that it's a bit far fetched. But lol, the sun refusing to rise because it's buddy the moon is gone... :xd:

[Skull_Kid]

It is farfetched and a bit laughable... also, the Ternminians have nothing to do with the Twili, neither are there any plausible hints either in in-game dialogue or depictions that lead to that belief.... If Termina was really the twilight realm, i believe something in-game would hint for that, and don't just say: "Oh, the Fused Shadow and the Majora's Mask are similar in design"... The only similarities I see are in the design of the eye, and that could be just a coincidence...!
I think it is more plausible that the Garo are the Creators of the mask, than it Majora's Mask being a prototype of the Fused Shadow

[Zemen]

It is farfetched and a bit laughable... also, the Ternminians have nothing to do with the Twili, neither are there any plausible hints either in in-game dialogue or depictions that lead to that belief.... If Termina was really the twilight realm, i believe something in-game would hint for that, and don't just say: "Oh, the Fused Shadow and the Majora's Mask are similar in design"... The only similarities I see are in the design of the eye, and that could be just a coincidence...!
I think it is more plausible that the Garo are the Creators of the mask, than it Majora's Mask being a prototype of the Fused Shadow


everyone usually believes that the twili people are the Gerudo and the only in game evidence is Midna saying that a tribe of magic users were banished to the twilight realm, and she says this while in the gerudo desert. thats the only evidence towards that theory and the ONLY gerudos that ever used magic were koume, kotake and ganondorf. just because this was said in the gerudo desert doesnt mean it was the gerudo. the twili have absolutely no similarities in looks, personality or traditions as the Gerudo do. when the twili people are normal they look nothing like the Gerudo. another piece of evidence that people has is that Zant is wearing a symbol of the Gerudo and my logical reason for that is that its because he is a follower of Ganondorf who is a Gerudo, but there are no other Gerudo symbols anywhere else on any other twili person.

just because it seems unplausible doesnt mean its not true. there is just as much evidence to my theory as there is to everyone elses, and thats not much. i never said it was true i was just saying it as something fun to think about.

[blackice_cc]

everyone usually believes that the twili people are the Gerudo and the only in game evidence is Midna saying that a tribe of magic users were banished to the twilight realm, and she says this while in the gerudo desert. thats the only evidence towards that theory and the ONLY gerudos that ever used magic were koume, kotake and ganondorf. just because this was said in the gerudo desert doesnt mean it was the gerudo. the twili have absolutely no similarities in looks, personality or traditions as the Gerudo do. when the twili people are normal they look nothing like the Gerudo. another piece of evidence that people has is that Zant is wearing a symbol of the Gerudo and my logical reason for that is that its because he is a follower of Ganondorf who is a Gerudo, but there are no other Gerudo symbols anywhere else on any other twili person.

just because it seems unplausible doesnt mean its not true. there is just as much evidence to my theory as there is to everyone elses, and thats not much. i never said it was true i was just saying it as something fun to think about.

Yes, you're right, it is fun to think about. But still, I think this theory has less evidence than that of the Gerudo being the Twili.
So basically the difference between the Gerudo = the Twili and this is that instead of the Gerudo taking part in some terrible crime and being banished to the already created twilight realm, the moon crashes in Termina and somehow makes the twilight, turning the Terminians into the Twili. But if that's the case, where are whatever the Zora would have turned into? And the Dekus, and the Gorons? They couldn't all have turned into the same thing.
If it was only the Gerudo that were sent there, they could easily become the Twili. And I'm pretty sure that Midna has red hair in her true form, which would be another similarity. Besides that, we don't KNOW that the Gerudo weren't usually magic users. Some of them could be. It might not onlt be specific people that can use magic, it might be a skill you can learn. And also, the Gerudo were in possession of the Ice Arrows, which required magic to use. So maybe we just never see any of them using magic.