Let's Make Some Magic

[Zemen]

i have given some thought on what kind of Zelda game i would like to see and ive mapped out my ideas like this.

i think that it should be kind of like Majoras Mask in a sense. i dont mean base the game on masks, but i would like to see a game based on magic. Zelda and Ganondorf get magic from their respective triforce pieces but Link only gets the magic that he recieves from the great fairies. i think it would be cool to have a game that requires you to learn a bunch of different spells that you need to solve many of the puzzles in the game much like majoras mask required many different masks to solve puzzles.

the magic could be used kind of like how the intstruments are used. you will get an item like a staff or a rod that requires you to use different button combinations to cast certain spells (like using the C buttons/stick to play an instrument).

not really sure where on the timeline i want this game to be but it would be centered around Link trying to defeat Ganon/dorf. Ganon/dorf becomes so powerful that the Master Sword alone can not defeat him, even at full power, so Link, being told by Zelda that he has the triforce of courage, must embark on a quest to not only find the Master Sword and restore power to it, but he must aquire a BUNCH of spells that will add different powers to the Master Sword and help unlock other things as the game goes on. im thinking of spells like instead of having fire and ice arrows, having magic that changes the elemental abilities of the master sword. turing it into an ice sword or fire sword and adding electricity to the mix and other things. i would also like to see the beam ability in this game, maybe you get it at the end at it is the attack that ultimately defeats Ganon/dorf at the end.

im thinking i would put this between MM and TP. it will be maybe a short time before the sages try to capture Ganon/dorf in the Twilight Realm. at the end of the game, when Link defeats Ganon/dorf, in one last blaze of glory before going down, Ganon/dorf completely drains Link of his powers, killing him (for those wondering, it would not be the same Link from MM, it would be a Link MUCH later than MM and MUCH earlier than TP). with Link being dead and his magic drained, this will lead to a defeated Ganon/dorf resisting capture by the sages who are trying to kill him for killing their hero and then since they cannont kill him because the magic he has stolen from Link awakens the triforce of power in him, they just banish him to the twilight realm. with the magic drained from the triforce of courage, this will explain why there is technically no magic in TP. the triforce of courages power has been drained and then im thinking there would be a game between TP and whatever game is after it on the timeline that explains how magic returns to the triforce of courage. also for those of you who believe that the Gerudo become the Twili people, and if this is what really happens, there would be something in this game that would explain why the Gerudo people are banished.

what does everyone think. there is more i have in mind but i think this is too long already haha.

[eArquilla]

first of all... the next zelda needs to take advantage of the wii motion plus coming out. i want true 1:1 movement with that sword.
second... build the game from the ground up for the wii, taking advantage of its power. while tp looked great, games like metroid prime 3 and super mario galaxy were beautiful.

i like your magic idea, that would give it a unique flavor.
but for the love of god let's get some plot explanations. i want to know exactly how hyrule was flooded and where all the water went afterward.

[Chris]

Now, here is the first problem I see, The Master Sword was designed to defeat evil so it would never fail. You would not need spells to defeat Ganondorf/ganon, the Master Sword will always win, that is why it appears in every game.

Though, your ideas of changing the Elemental powers of the Master Sword are really good and I think they would be useful. But, you would still keep the elemental arrows, for long range possiblities.

Good ideas, keep trying to improve your ideas!

[Zemen]

Now, here is the first problem I see, The Master Sword was designed to defeat evil so it would never fail. You would not need spells to defeat Ganondorf/ganon, the Master Sword will always win, that is why it appears in every game.

Though, your ideas of changing the Elemental powers of the Master Sword are really good and I think they would be useful. But, you would still keep the elemental arrows, for long range possiblities.

Good ideas, keep trying to improve your ideas!

the master sword definitely DOES fail. do you not remember that in each game that you collect it, you have to somehow restore its power. the master sword is useless wihtout its power, and everytime you retrieve the master sword you have to return power to it.

[MrMosley]

the master sword definitely DOES fail. do you not remember that in each game that you collect it, you have to somehow restore its power. the master sword is useless wihtout its power, and everytime you retrieve the master sword you have to return power to it.

That was only in Wind Waker. Ocarina of Time, you didn't have to do anything to the Master Sword. And in A Link to the Past, you didn't have to either. You could choose to, but it wasn't necessary to defeat Ganon.

I like your idea, though I don't know exactly how long after MM that Ganondorf was put on trial by the sages. For all we know, it could have happend right after Link told Zelda of Ganondorf's deception.

Here's my theory on why the Gerudo were banished, and its taken from many in-game dialogues and stories.

Whenever Link pulled the Master Sword from the pedestal as young Link in OoT, he opened the door to the Sacred Realm, which is where the Triforce was. The opening story within A Link to the Past talks about these events, whenever the door to the Sacred Realm was open and all the armies started to fight. These armies were the separate races and tribes of Hyrule, all with a respective leader. Ganondorf was obviously the one who succeeded in gaining access to the Sacred Realm, therefore his race of Gerudo would have been his army during this war. In Twilight Princess, Midna states, "What do you think happend to the magic weilders who tried to rule the Sacred Realm?" She goes on to talk about how they were banished and became the Twili. I believe these to be the Gerudo because they were the ones who attempted to take over the Sacred Realm with Ganondorf as their leader.

[Zemen]

That was only in Wind Waker. Ocarina of Time, you didn't have to do anything to the Master Sword. And in A Link to the Past, you didn't have to either. You could choose to, but it wasn't necessary to defeat Ganon.

I like your idea, though I don't know exactly how long after MM that Ganondorf was put on trial by the sages. For all we know, it could have happend right after Link told Zelda of Ganondorf's deception.

Here's my theory on why the Gerudo were banished, and its taken from many in-game dialogues and stories.

Whenever Link pulled the Master Sword from the pedestal as young Link in OoT, he opened the door to the Sacred Realm, which is where the Triforce was. The opening story within A Link to the Past talks about these events, whenever the door to the Sacred Realm was open and all the armies started to fight. These armies were the separate races and tribes of Hyrule, all with a respective leader. Ganondorf was obviously the one who succeeded in gaining access to the Sacred Realm, therefore his race of Gerudo would have been his army during this war. In Twilight Princess, Midna states, "What do you think happend to the magic weilders who tried to rule the Sacred Realm?" She goes on to talk about how they were banished and became the Twili. I believe these to be the Gerudo because they were the ones who attempted to take over the Sacred Realm with Ganondorf as their leader.

youre assuming they are the ones who tried to help ganondorf and midna says the magic wielders.... i dont remember the Gerudo using any magic except for twinrova. im pretty sure they were just thieves except for the two witches.

also, i finished playing thorugh OoT again about a week ago and noticed something itneresting.

during the credits there are a bunch of people celebrating around a fire because ganondorf was finally defeated and hyrule is safe again. if you pay real close attention, there is about a 2 second part where there is a line of Gerudo doing a show girl dance around the fire, this means they were celebrating ganondorfs defeat with everyone else in the world.

obviously they were happy he was gone, so i dont think they were following him as strongly as everyone thinks they were.

[MrMosley]

youre assuming they are the ones who tried to help ganondorf and midna says the magic wielders.... i dont remember the Gerudo using any magic except for twinrova. im pretty sure they were just thieves except for the two witches.

also, i finished playing thorugh OoT again about a week ago and noticed something itneresting.

during the credits there are a bunch of people celebrating around a fire because ganondorf was finally defeated and hyrule is safe again. if you pay real close attention, there is about a 2 second part where there is a line of Gerudo doing a show girl dance around the fire, this means they were celebrating ganondorfs defeat with everyone else in the world.

obviously they were happy he was gone, so i dont think they were following him as strongly as everyone thinks they were.


I'd say they were pretty happy. It talks about in the ALttP manual how Ganon killed off most of his own army after he got to the Triforce. And who else would Ganondorf have allied himself with? He was the King of the Gerudo. They had to listen to him. Just because it says magic weilders dosen't mean it wasnt the Gerudo. Your making things way too difficult to figure out. No offence or anything meant, but everything that happens in Zelda dosen't have to have some well thought out plot that no one can seem to think up. Ganondorf was able to use magic, as well as Koume and Kotake. Thats proof enough to know that the Gerudo are able to use magic. In Twilight Princess, Midna tells you about the race that was banished whenever you enter the Gerudo Desert. When she mentions the word "race", the screen pans across the desert, excluding Link and Midna. That right there is simple to figure out.

[Zemen]

youre assuming too then. just because 3 Gerudos of the entire race can use magic does not mean they all can.

lets see, based on your theory, that means that because Zelda and Link can use magic, then its safe to assume the rest of the Hylians can. i dont think im overthinking anything at all. and it would make sense that ganondorf can use magic seeing as how he has a piece of the triforce...

[MrMosley]

youre assuming too then. just because 3 Gerudos of the entire race can use magic does not mean they all can.

lets see, based on your theory, that means that because Zelda and Link can use magic, then its safe to assume the rest of the Hylians can. i dont think im overthinking anything at all. and it would make sense that ganondorf can use magic seeing as how he has a piece of the triforce...


Yeah actually, thats what I am saying. The Gerudos have the ability to use magic, just as does anyone else in the Zelda world that wants to bad enough. And no, I did not state a theory based on anything. Link can use magic because he learns it. Zelda can use magic because of different reasons, either because one game she is a Sage, or that she has the Triforce of Wisdom.

And your last statement overlooks one major thing. Probably one of the most memorable scenes of Ocarina of Time. Whenever Link has the three spiritual stones and is on his way to the Temple of Time, we see Zelda and Impa riding away on a horse. Shortly after, you get to meet Ganondorf for the first time, who blasts you with some sort of "magical" orb. At this point in the game, he was not in possession of the Triforce of Power.

Here's another thing to consider. Midna is talking about this magic weilding race whenever you get to the Gerudo Desert. Lets think for a minute about Twilight Princess and where it stands in coordination with the other games. According to the cutscene with Ganondorf being prosecuted by the Sages, one would think that it takes place obviously after Ocarina of Time. A Link to the Past is another game that takes place after OoT, and in that game we know that Ganon is no longer human. One theory I do have is that Ganondorf dies and abandons his human form in Twilight Princess. That is why on most any timeline you look at, it is the first game after OoT (in the opposite timeline from WW), and the only game thus far to feature Ganondorf as a human. He is reborn into his pig/beast form which we see in ever Zelda thereafter. Meaning Ocarina of Time would be the only game to come before Twilight Princess where a race would have fought to gain access to the Sacred Realm. We know for a fact that Ganondorf has been the only one able to get into the Sacred Realm. We also know for a fact that he did so with an army of as stated in the A Link to the Past manual, and that he even killed off most of them from his greediness once he got into the Sacred Realm.

So now if Ocarina of Time was the point at which these wars happend, what races did we have? Zoras, Gorons, Hylians, and Gerudo. Thats it. The Gorons and Zoras sure didn't like Ganondorf, nor would they have ever fought to help him get the Triforce. The only other solution, and the most obvious, is the Gerudo. He is their king, they will listen to him. Even if they do not particularly like him. It sure wouldn't have been the Hylians fighting alonside Ganondorf because they were the ones who were trying to keep the peace anyway.

[Zemen]

Yeah actually, thats what I am saying. The Gerudos have the ability to use magic, just as does anyone else in the Zelda world that wants to bad enough. And no, I did not state a theory based on anything. Link can use magic because he learns it. Zelda can use magic because of different reasons, either because one game she is a Sage, or that she has the Triforce of Wisdom.

And your last statement overlooks one major thing. Probably one of the most memorable scenes of Ocarina of Time. Whenever Link has the three spiritual stones and is on his way to the Temple of Time, we see Zelda and Impa riding away on a horse. Shortly after, you get to meet Ganondorf for the first time, who blasts you with some sort of "magical" orb. At this point in the game, he was not in possession of the Triforce of Power.

Here's another thing to consider. Midna is talking about this magic weilding race whenever you get to the Gerudo Desert. Lets think for a minute about Twilight Princess and where it stands in coordination with the other games. According to the cutscene with Ganondorf being prosecuted by the Sages, one would think that it takes place obviously after Ocarina of Time. A Link to the Past is another game that takes place after OoT, and in that game we know that Ganon is no longer human. One theory I do have is that Ganondorf dies and abandons his human form in Twilight Princess. That is why on most any timeline you look at, it is the first game after OoT (in the opposite timeline from WW), and the only game thus far to feature Ganondorf as a human. He is reborn into his pig/beast form which we see in ever Zelda thereafter. Meaning Ocarina of Time would be the only game to come before Twilight Princess where a race would have fought to gain access to the Sacred Realm. We know for a fact that Ganondorf has been the only one able to get into the Sacred Realm. We also know for a fact that he did so with an army of as stated in the A Link to the Past manual, and that he even killed off most of them from his greediness once he got into the Sacred Realm.

So now if Ocarina of Time was the point at which these wars happend, what races did we have? Zoras, Gorons, Hylians, and Gerudo. Thats it. The Gorons and Zoras sure didn't like Ganondorf, nor would they have ever fought to help him get the Triforce. The only other solution, and the most obvious, is the Gerudo. He is their king, they will listen to him. Even if they do not particularly like him. It sure wouldn't have been the Hylians fighting alonside Ganondorf because they were the ones who were trying to keep the peace anyway.

actually nabooru specifically says she hates ganondorf and would not follow him because he kills people. seeing as how she is second in command, and a female like the rest of the race, i would they think they follow her more than him, especially since they celebrate his defeat at the end of OoT.

links learns magic because he is the hero of time and has the triforce of courage and CAN learn magic because of that. name one other person in the game that uses magic that is not a sage or triforce holder or dungeon boss...you cant.

and i definitely dont remember him shooting a magic orb at Link when he gets the three spiritual stones. i remember him falling over because he sees ganondorfs horse braying right over his head, but no magic orb. why wouldnt ganondorf just shoot zelda and impa instead of chasing them on horseback? he seemed pretty close behind them. why wouldnt he just blast them down if he can use magic without the triforce?

i think the point of the game is that ganondorf can only take over the world WITH the triforce, and thats why he is trying to get it, because he is useless without it.

now please dont reply to this because it is getting way off the thread topic which is to discuss an idea for a future game that i proposed. if you reply to this and it has nothing to do with the original topic i will have the thread closed.

[fredthehylian]

There is a Zelda game fitting your description. Zelda II: the Adventure of Link. It's for the NES but DAMN it's hard.

[TVTMaster]

Well, when it comes to your plot, there are a couple crucial inconsistencies.

In the TP cutscene, Ganondorf is being executed after being entirely foiled by young Link and his knowledge of the future- the King was ready and his coup failed. He was arrested, and executed. He was arrested almost immediately, but his execution was delayed several years for the construction of the prison.

Also, the Twili were not the Gerudo that helped Ganondorf break into the Sacred Realm- they were banished long before Ganondorf began his plot, during the Hyrulean Civil War. While everyone was fighting, they were banished by the Light Spirits.

Anyway, the actual concept with using magic a lot as a central progression tool was done in Zelda II, but powering the Master Sword with elemental energies sounds like a fun idea. I'd prefer different weapons with their own elemental properties and stories, but you can do what you want.

[Angelmonster]

I love the idea of adding Elemental powers to the Master Sword! They could easily do it like this:

Get the Master Sword BEFORE you go to the "elemental" Temples. You go through them, get the item in the temple(Bow and Arrows, Hook/Claw shot, etc etc) and defeat the boss in the end. When the boss is defeated there is a room with a dais like in the Sacred Grove. You put the sword into it and gain that elemental ability.

1)The elements would do more damage against the opposite elements. IE you get the water element and it does more damage to fire monsters and to everything in the water temples, etc etc.

2)One thing that would be REALLY interesting is each one had its own ability. When you have the non-elemental sword out you do the Spin Attack. When you change it to water you have a spin attack that is longer because water spins with you and any monster caught in it quickly freezes. The earth/forest temple, instead of a spin attack you can jump up and push your sword into the ground doing a Quake attack(like Quake in ALttP). Shadow would allow Link to become "Dark Link" and he can pass through walls via shadows.

[Zemen]

Well, when it comes to your plot, there are a couple crucial inconsistencies.

In the TP cutscene, Ganondorf is being executed after being entirely foiled by young Link and his knowledge of the future- the King was ready and his coup failed. He was arrested, and executed. He was arrested almost immediately, but his execution was delayed several years for the construction of the prison.

Actually, it's been stated by Aunouma, that Link and Zelda left Ganondorf alone when Link went back in time and then Ganondorf did something outrageous that caused him to be captured and sentenced to execution.

They never said he was sent to execution because of Link's adventure.

[Pyroco101]

Maybe it was the SHIEKA tribe that used magic, huh?

[TVTMaster]

Maybe it was the SHIEKA tribe that used magic, huh?

Actually, yeah, I was going to bring that up. From what we know, most of the Sheikah tribe was exterminated during the Hyrulean Civil War. The remnant, it seems, became loyal to the Hylian Royal Family. My theory is that the Dark Interlopers were comprised primarily of Sheikah (it is shadow magic, like the twili use), with members from other tribes as well. Therefore, these wielders of shadow magic (who fought, just like everybdy else, in the HCW, for control of the Triforce and Sacred Realm), were banished to the Twilight Realm by the Light Spirits. The rest of the Sheikah were either foot soldiers killed in the war, or did not affiliate themselves with the Interlopers, and served the Hylians.

In Twilight Princess, the absence of the Gerudo is likely explained by either a Hylian invasion (when they converted the Spirit Temple into the Arbiter's Grounds), or by whatever stunt Ganondorf pulled after Link informed Zelda of his plot. Possibly Ganondorf directly attacked Hyrule Castle and the Temple of Time, with his armies of Gerudo behind him, but was defeated because of Zelda's preparing action. Either way, most of the Gerudo were driven out by the action of the Hylians. The Gerudo were likely not the magic wielders described in ALttP, not because they didn't use magic, but because they never succeeded in gaining access to the Sacred Realm with Ganondorf. The Sheikah, who were likely the majority of the Dark Interlopers, on the other hand, started a huge civil war to gain access to the Sacred Realm, and they were, in fact banished.


I believe these to be the Gerudo because they were the ones who attempted to take over the Sacred Realm with Ganondorf as their leader. The crucial difference is that, in the Child Timeline, Ganondorf never succeeded in gaining access to the Sacred Realm, and they were not banished to the Twilight Realm. We know that the Dark Interlopers were the ones banished to the TR, that they used magic, and that they tried to control the Sacred Realm. That was a long time before OoT and Ganondorf's attempts to break in- all the way back during the Civil War.

Anyway, I'd like to see Zemen's game, just as long as the magic doesn't play a major role in combat- sword elemental affinities I can understand, but using magic all the time to fight sounds like a hassle. Maybe it would work for Zelda co-op or something. Even if the Triforce of Courage doesn't necessarily have magic attached to it (the Deku Leaf and the Great Fairy of whatever gave Link magic in WW and OoT), Ganondorf perhaps cursing it to reject magic would work.

[Axle the Beast]

This is a very interesting prospect for a Zelda game, and one I would actually really like to see. I've always wanted magic to make a return to the series (and not just some little magical items, full spells.)

I especially like the idea of casting spells like with the instruments, and the idea of elemental blades, which could allow for very intriguing puzzles and challenges. I would also like to see other sorts of spells, such as fire blasts or perhaps more passive spells like walking on water or flying, but the sword idea is very cool also.

I also like your ideas for placement in the timeline.

Perhaps you should pursue making a fangame. ;)

[Shadow Wolfo]

Sounds like Links going to visit Harry Potter :nerd:. But I like the Idea.

[Axle the Beast]

Sounds like Links going to visit Harry Potter :nerd:. But I like the Idea.
Haha. :xd:

Well, actually, Zelda has been around a lot longer than Harry Potter, and it always had magic in the early games. Only in the more recent games has it started to not have much magic.