The best timeline I've seen

[Brandon]

I would like to propose a timeline. There is a lot of discussion about timeline theories, but I would like to actually propose one which I think does a better job incorporating all of the elements of all of the games than any timeline I've seen. I did not create this timeline, but I've given it a great deal of thought, and it has simply emerged as the most convincing.

Note: This timeline is split. There are plenty of threads arguing about whether the timeling splits. I think it is the only way to produce a consistent timeline especially given WW and TP; however, rather than giving a detailed argument for split timelines, I will argue that this particular split timeline is good.

The timeline is...

MC-FS-OoT- Then OoT creates a split leading to

Child- MM-TP-FSA-ALttP-OoS&OoA-LA
Adult- WW-PH-LoZ-AoL

There are sooooooo, many arguments for this timeline, and the reason I like it is that too many things just fall into place, but I will give a few arguements for the general structure.

Presplit: This is fairly uncontroversial. In MC Link aquires his green hat. I've heard the complaint that it is a different link in different games, so the hat doesn't matter, but that is a misunderstanding. The archetype of the hero embodying the triforce of courage aquires the hat. There have been heros of courage before Link in MC and there will be others later, but Link in MC is the first to have a hat, and the image sticks with the hero. For that matter so does the name. FS follows fairly easily, and OoT is usually considered one of the earliest. I have separated FSA from FS for reasons I will explain.

Adult side: WW and PH are basically given by in game information. WW follows Oot and PH follows WW. We know this. In a split timeline, WW has to be in the adult timeline because Gannon has been defeated. Now there are two really good reasons for putting LoZ and AoL next. First, the Hyrule in the 8 bit games is coastal, but it isn't in any other games. This is more than a minor geographical difference. Hyrule is not exactly the same in any two zelda games, but an ocean is a big addition. This suggests that they are set after the waters in WW recede. Second, the towns in AoL are named after sages which would not have been sages in the child timeline.

child side: MM and TP are fairly uncontroversial. FSA is where it is primarily for two reasons. First, Ganon aquires the trident, so FSA must be before ALttP, and second, the intro shows young girls as sages. In ALttP we find out that the sages decendents are maidens who no longer have the power of their ancestors. This fits perfectly with FSA where we see maidens who are apparently in the same bloodline, yet being earlier in the timeline, the power has not yet disipated. So on the child side we have a bloodline of maidens decended from the sages in TP. On the adult side, these sages are killed and Link awakens new ones who later have towns named after them. The oracles games come after ALttP because ALttP ends with the triforce pieces united, Ganon dead, and Twinrova still alive from OoT (because link never killed her on the child side). The oracles ending also shows Link sailing away on a boat similar to the one in LA, so it follows naturally that LA comes next. Also, LA is a dream that very closely resembles ALttP, so as a side point, it may be the same link in ALttP, OoS, OoA, and LA.

I know this post is already long, but I will give one more point and let whoever feels like wading through this give opinions.
Point: This timeline perfectly tracks the location of the master sword and the triforce.
Master sword: On the adult side, The WW has the master sword in the temple of time right where link left it in OoT, then it is left at the bottom of an ocean and does not come back in LoZ and AoL. On the child side, The master sword is in a pedestal in the forest grove that was apparently once the temple of time where link left the sword in OoT. In ALttP, the sword is still in the forest.
Triforce: this is much more complicated so I won't give the whole story, but basically each game that ends with a split triforce has it still split in the next game and each game that ends with a unified triforce has it unified in the next game. The only exception is the transition from WW to LoZ. In this case we rely on the AoL backstory which explains why the triforce is split between the games. As a final side note, placing the AoL backstory in "new hyrule" after the WW flood helps explain the confusion about the "first Zelda." She is really only the first Zelda of the "new hyrule."

OK. I'd love to say more, but I think I've given you guys enough to digest. So I hope this convinces some people and you like the timeline. I expect that some people will have suggestions and objections that will make for good discussion. This is great too.

[Midna666]

Pretty good timeline,but I found a problem.At the end of Wind Waker,Ganon is at the bottom of the ocean.Not only that but he has the Master Sword stuck in him as well.

[Mehplep]

Pretty good timeline,but I found a problem.At the end of Wind Waker,Ganon is at the bottom of the ocean.Not only that but he has the Master Sword stuck in him as well.
Ganons placement woudn't probably be the same if Hyrule was unflooded, just as Brandon explains in the text. And I fail to see why the Master Sword would affect the scenario, it's never used (or atleast said to be used) in both LoZ and AoL.

Overall I think it's really solid, actually. I'm sure you can find some errors if you looked really into it, but nothing major. Nice find, I say.

[Midna666]

The Master Sword only affects the scenario,because it's stuck in his forehead he can't come back from the dead.
So how does he get it out of himself.

[Mehplep]

We have seen Ganon come back from the dead several times. Mainly without an sword attatched to his forehead, but I'm sure he'll make his way through that, in one or another way. Maybe he leaves his earthly form of Ganondorf (which is the one with the Master Sword on) and ressurects as Ganon, which is the one that is present in LoZ, I dunno. I'm just saying that being dead has not prevented hime earlier.

[Midna666]

It's true that he has died more then once.But never has the Master Sword remained in him.
Plus in TP he lost the Triforce of power's uh power,when he is killed by the Master Sword.

[chrisbg99]

We have seen Ganon come back from the dead several times. Mainly without an sword attatched to his forehead, but I'm sure he'll make his way through that, in one or another way. Maybe he leaves his earthly form of Ganondorf (which is the one with the Master Sword on) and ressurects as Ganon, which is the one that is present in LoZ, I dunno. I'm just saying that being dead has not prevented hime earlier.

I think that Ganon is for all intents and purposes immortal as his lust for power made it so as long as the Triforce of Power exists so will he.

[elementskater995]

I think he would be an adult in twighlight princess

[waldo12]

you know i could be wrong but wouldnt the split time line be wrong becuse ganon was sealed in the future and not the past plus at the end of oot zelda sent link back to the moment that they met y else would she be in the garden and if that is true then ganon never got the triforce of power in the past so that means if there is a split timeline wouldnt ganon have to get the triforce of power again?

its all so confusing

[Midna666]

Time travel never makes sense.

[owenshev]

My head hurts...

But also, when Ganon dies in Wind Waker, the Master Sword is still in him. Then he is not in PH and he returns in LoZ. Could he maybe have ABSORBED the master sword??????? :eek:

[waldo12]

mmmmmmm have u played all these games cuz u r kinda contradicting your self

[loki212]

ok i agree with op over all, but LA takes place right after AlttP, the box and the booklet say so. The whole back story of that game is that Link is training abroud in case Ganon came back. Also i would but OoA/OoS after MM, fits with the ending pretty well, Link leaves on a Epona in MM, opening scence in OoA/OoS has Link on Epona as he gets back to Hyrule.

[Zemen]

you know i could be wrong but wouldnt the split time line be wrong becuse ganon was sealed in the future and not the past plus at the end of oot zelda sent link back to the moment that they met y else would she be in the garden and if that is true then ganon never got the triforce of power in the past so that means if there is a split timeline wouldnt ganon have to get the triforce of power again?

its all so confusing

Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power in him. he finds out that its in him late in the OoT game. because Link goes back in time and tells everyone of his plan before he can get started, the Hylians stop Ganondorf so he never finds out that he has the Triforce of Power inside of him (but just because he doesnt know doesnt mean its not there). this leads into Majora's Mask where Link leaves Hyrule. now we go to Twilight Princess where they show a cutscene of the sages trying to kill Ganondorf. my idea is that this specific cutscene depicts something that happened shortly after Link leaves Hyrule at the beginning of Majora's Mask. the sages try to kill Ganondorf, but it doesnt work because the Triforce of Power shows itself to Ganondorf and keeps him alive. because they cant kill him, they seal him in the Twilight Realm which is apart of Twilight Princess and apart of the child timeline which proves (to me anyway) a split timeline.


ok i agree with op over all, but LA takes place right after AlttP, the box and the booklet say so. The whole back story of that game is that Link is training abroud in case Ganon came back. Also i would but OoA/OoS after MM, fits with the ending pretty well, Link leaves on a Epona in MM, opening scence in OoA/OoS has Link on Epona as he gets back to Hyrule.

the only problem with having OoA/OoS right after MM and before TP is that in OoA/OoS, we see Ganon and not Ganondorf, but Ganondorf is present in TP. it would only make sense for Ganon to come after every game that we see Ganondorf, because this would show that somewhere along the way, Ganondorf could not retrieve his human body so he could only return in his demon boar body.


Pretty good timeline,but I found a problem.At the end of Wind Waker,Ganon is at the bottom of the ocean.Not only that but he has the Master Sword stuck in him as well.

lets not forget that in the future, there could be Zelda games that come inbetween other games on the timeline. we cant be too nit picky because there could be a game that is made someday that explains how Ganondorf got the Master Sword out of his head, and i would say that he couldnt get it out of his head so he found a way to come back in his demon form (of a boar) which would explain how he managed to come back alive even with the master sword in his head.

[kpllk]

My head hurts...

But also, when Ganon dies in Wind Waker, the Master Sword is still in him. Then he is not in PH and he returns in LoZ. Could he maybe have ABSORBED the master sword??????? :eek:

I think he did. In WW he was Ganondorf but in LoZ he is Ganon. How did he transform? It never showed. The power of the Master sword transformed him probably.

[Zemen]

I think he did. In WW he was Ganondorf but in LoZ he is Ganon. How did he transform? It never showed. The power of the Master sword transformed him probably.

this would make sense because in most games, when Link gets the master sword he has to find a way to return the power to the master sword. maybe Ganondorf took the power of the sword to ressurect himself in a different form and this would explain why the master sword doesnt have power when Link gets it in most games.

[Brandon]

Wow. I've been unable to get on the forums for a while because I've been busy with school. At first no one even viewed this thread, so I'm really happy now that I'm back and there's been some good conversationa about it. The downside is now I'm a little out of the loop in the thread that I started. Like I said, I didn't invent this timeline, but I really love it.

The big objections seem to be the placement of the oracles games and the problem of explaining the events between WW and LoZ.

As i said in the first post, the primary reason for putting the oracles games between ALttP and LA is that the triforce pieces are all together at the end of ALttP and the combined ending of the Oracles games shows Link getting on a sail boat and sailing away. I'm not sure what bigger clue we could ask for to place the oracles games. I know the earlier booklets places LA directly after ALttP, but as with any canon, the Zelda canon evolves and changes, and newer material trumps the older stuff. My suspicion is that Nintendo gave very little thought to continuity in the pre-N64 days. After OoT, there seems to be a much more obvious effort to create a unified story. I think little things like the boat at the end of the Oracles games are no accident, and that as a general rule we can take out-of-game-sources before OoT with a grain of salt. Some of the old boxes and manuals actually contradict one another.

As for explaining what happened between WW and LoZ (besides PH that is), I think this is one area where the timeline leaves room for speculation. I don't claim that this timeline explains everything, just that it explains more than any other timeline. For the reasons I gave in the first post, we have good reason for thinking that Hyrule in LoZ and AoL are a post flood Hyrule, but we have no idea how long after the flood it is or what happend after the waters receded (except the AoL backstory, we know that). This issue can only be settled definitively by a new game set between PH and LoZ. I'd love to see a game where we find out how Ganon was brought back and where the master sword went. This is basically Zemen125's point.

[Welbanks]

k but dident ganon/ganondorf die at the end of TP? so how can he be back in FSA?

[Judai]

Not enough proof to point that TMC and FS come before OOT and people lean more towards FS being before ALTTP.

[Zemen]

k but dident ganon/ganondorf die at the end of TP? so how can he be back in FSA?

Ganon/dorf never dies. the triforce of power always keeps him alive. thats why they have to seal him away or turn him to stone with the master sword. he can never be killed.

[Midna666]

k but dident ganon/ganondorf die at the end of TP? so how can he be back in FSA?

I think that FSA has a different Ganon.
His people don't seem to like him much in that game.

[Josh]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaactualy he can die. That would be when the Triforce of Power leaves him, making him much less powerful. TP for instance. Or the original LoZ.

[Mr. Guffey]

This is not relevant to my interests and I have nothing to say.

[Welbanks]

This is not relevant to my interests and I have nothing to say.


Then why say anything? :P

[Zemen]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaactualy he can die. That would be when the Triforce of Power leaves him, making him much less powerful. TP for instance. Or the original LoZ.

ummm...i guess the obvious question would be, why does he always return in some game if he dies in a different game? obviously he can come back, which would mean he really cant die because if you die and come back, youre not dead.

[Josh]

ummm...i guess the obvious question would be, why does he always return in some game if he dies in a different game? obviously he can come back, which would mean he really cant die because if you die and come back, youre not dead.

Well that's not necessarily true. Let's assume Christianity is true too. Jesus die, went to hell, and came back to Earth. Probably same scenario too. And the games are in a certain order, hence a timeline, so if he dies in one game of course he's going to come back in another one.

[Brandon]

It is possible that Ganondorf's altered form, Ganon, can continue to exist when Ganondorf dies. I know it's weird, but it would explain why we do not see Ganondorf in FSA, ALttP, or LoZ. Perhaps Ganondorf really is killed in both TP and WW but somehow continues to exist as Ganon only (instead of being able to assume either form as before) an all games following WW or TP. I admit the theory is a bit of a stretch, but the unity it provides is striking. It explains why we only see the Ganon form in several games that all just happen to fall after WW and TP in this timeline, the only two games which end with Ganondorf being impaled by the master sword complete with a glowing wound. (Curious don't you think?)

[Zemen]

Well that's not necessarily true. Let's assume Christianity is true too. Jesus die, went to hell, and came back to Earth. Probably same scenario too. And the games are in a certain order, hence a timeline, so if he dies in one game of course he's going to come back in another one.

well christianity is just a religion that no one even knows is 100% true (they just "believe" it is which is not the same thing as knowing).

a videogame has facts right infront of us that leave it up to us to interpert. Ganondorf never really dies. he is either turned to stone, or sent to some other realm, but never really killed.

[Welbanks]

It is possible that Ganondorf's altered form, Ganon, can continue to exist when Ganondorf dies. I know it's weird, but it would explain why we do not see Ganondorf in FSA, ALttP, or LoZ. Perhaps Ganondorf really is killed in both TP and WW but somehow continues to exist as Ganon only (instead of being able to assume either form as before) an all games following WW or TP. I admit the theory is a bit of a stretch, but the unity it provides is striking. It explains why we only see the Ganon form in several games that all just happen to fall after WW and TP in this timeline, the only two games which end with Ganondorf being impaled by the master sword complete with a glowing wound. (Curious don't you think?)


Ya when you think of it like that, then all of the games basically string together perfectly :O how odd..

[Zemen]

It is possible that Ganondorf's altered form, Ganon, can continue to exist when Ganondorf dies. I know it's weird, but it would explain why we do not see Ganondorf in FSA, ALttP, or LoZ. Perhaps Ganondorf really is killed in both TP and WW but somehow continues to exist as Ganon only (instead of being able to assume either form as before) an all games following WW or TP. I admit the theory is a bit of a stretch, but the unity it provides is striking. It explains why we only see the Ganon form in several games that all just happen to fall after WW and TP in this timeline, the only two games which end with Ganondorf being impaled by the master sword complete with a glowing wound. (Curious don't you think?)

im surprised your the first person to bring this up in this conversation (or many others). based on the timeline that i believe in, ganondorf exists in each game to a certain point then every game after that is strictly ganon. good observation.