"Graphics"

[EponaOwns]

I hear all these people say they don't like the ghraphics on mm and oot. I don't really care for the graphics just the game story and stuff. It gets annoying when I hear people say I wont play this game cause graphics are terrible.


I bet in 10 years you will say the same thing about tp or ph or ww

[Inflexus]

I bet in 10 years you will say the same thing about tp or ph or ww

I'm allready saying that about those games.

Here's MGS 4, for PS3:
http://images.g4tv.com/images/blog/2008/05/19/633468037198868986.jpg

Notice the detail. Compare it to Twilight Princess, the most graphically detailed Nintendo game so far:

http://www.apollopony.net/images/twilight_princess.jpg

Obviously, Twilight Princess is severly lacking in comparison.


Visuals make for a lot of the game, they are "video games" after all. But I agree with you, a game is not good or bad simply because of the quality of the graphics or cinimatics.

[El Bagu]

For me the graphics is neither that important and as I have mentioned in another thread, my favorite game is OoT, this because of the sometime tricky puzzles and the story of the game. One thing though that is a much more important improvement (because it is really an improvement) is the game control in the later games (ww and tp). That I like a lot :clap:

[Chrono]

Noobs play Zelda for the graphics.

[Dabombster]

If I played video games for the graphics, I wouldn't play a lot of the games I do. I play more older games than newer ones. Graphics don't make a good game, the story and gameplay does. I like Zelda because I like puzzles. Zelda gives me that with a little extra.

And yes, like Avenged said, "Noobs play Zelda for the graphics".

[EponaOwns]

I dont care for the graphics either I'm just saying that to many people I know say those graphics stink. I dont like old games because of their graphics

[Twili123prince]

i love the graphics in oot for some strange reason

[Y2K3]

When I get into a game, I don't care about the graphics.
Amazing graphics (depending on the game) can be a huge plus, but it's not a huge deal if they're more simplistic.

[EponaOwns]

When it comes to Zelda there doesn't need to be good graphics. Just a good puzzle and story

[Inflexus]

When I get into a game, I don't care about the graphics.
Amazing graphics (depending on the game) can be a huge plus, but it's not a huge deal if they're more simplistic.

And that's how most of the non-gaming or light-gaming population feels. Good graphics are typically only pointed out by people with better systems or who see more video games, and play more.

[linkman8]

And that's how most of the non-gaming or light-gaming population feels. Good graphics are typically only pointed out by people with better systems or who see more video games, and play more.

Which seems to me to be a bit more of an elitist attitude among hardcore gamers.

In perspective, gaming is not about who's got the betters system, or who's got better graphics. It's about the gameplay, plain and simple. And when has anyone played a game purely and simply for the graphics engine? Never. We all play games we enjoy. If that's not true, then I'd love to see you play an 8 year old's game on a top of the line system.

[MrMosley]

And that's how most of the non-gaming or light-gaming population feels. Good graphics are typically only pointed out by people with better systems or who see more video games, and play more.


Thats completely backwards. For one, the PS3, cause thats what you are considering a "better system", has the least sells of any system out right now. Its got good graphics, yes, and its got quite a bit of memory, yes, but does that make it "better", not at all. Don't get me wrong, I like a couple PS3 games, and I own a 360 and like a lot it has to offer, but that dosen't make them any more superior to any other system, whatsoever.

The Wii, which is what you seem to believe has these so called bad graphics, is what everyone wants now. Gamers of all ages, and even a lot of gamers that have been gaming forever. I, for one, have been gaming since I was about 3 years old, and im 19, and right now, and I've seen my fair share of games to know that great graphics really don't mean much. Maybe they help, but they aren't needed. If you want realism, watch a movie. There are still many series out there that people would rather play the games released 10 years ago or more, than the crap we are getting these days. For example, Sonic, Mortal Kombat, and most of what we have seen from the Mario series. Heck I still consider the best wrestling game to be WWF No Mercy for the 64, and it came out a while back.

Now I'm not necessarily saying that a game with horrible graphics is always gonna be better than one with very realistic ones, but a combination of both is fine. The Gamecube had graphics that, if I had to live with the rest of my life, I would be completely content with. I will repeat, they are Video Games, not Movies.

[Inflexus]

The PS3 is also the most expensive of the 3 systems, and I'm not trying to imply that graphics alone make a good game. It's an important part of the quality of the game to be sure.

We still go back and play 8 bit games for a reason, we go back to them and get bored with Halo 3 or Gears of War because they're classics. And it doesn't just end there. We may stop what we're doing to go play crappy flash games.

It's all about the player and their preference. I apologize if that point wasn't made clear on my part earlier.

[Onilink89]

personally, i still think the grapics are good for the N64 compared to other N64 titles.
and then to think that they were remade on the GC. well not much difference but the motion is quicker and the grapics a little sharper.

good grapics or bad grapics, OOT and MM are worthy zelda titles to play.

[Josh]

I myself have never really been a fan of counting it. If you look at some of my posts on other forums, they say in basically every review that they graphics were great. Because they were. Doesn't matter what system, doesn't matter when it was made, as long as I'm looking at something other than a blank screen I can perfectly say I'm happy.

[Mike Pothier]

I hear all these people say they don't like the ghraphics on mm and oot. I don't really care for the graphics just the game story and stuff. It gets annoying when I hear people say I wont play this game cause graphics are terrible.


I bet in 10 years you will say the same thing about tp or ph or ww

Yeah, they need to learn how technology works... the graphics back then were jaw droppingly gorgeous at the time of release.

[chrisbg99]

The one thing that I've disliked about reviews for the Virtual Console is that people have a tendency to give poor ratings for graphics based on current standards. I do agree that games from that era didn't hold up as well graphically but you can't be judging them based on what the 360, PS3 or even the Wii can do now.

Though I think we have gotten to the point where 3D graphics will hold up better in the future when compared to next gens. Much like how many people still find SNES games still hold up very well.

[Mases]

I do think the the graphics of the two Zelda titles on the Nintendo64 were great at the time. Compared to other N64 titles, they were really amazing. That being said, the 3d gaming world has seen such advancements in the graphics department that I can clearly see the aging in place.

Especially since these were the first 2 Zelda titles in 3d. A game like Link to the Past has aged better in my opinion than Ocarina of Time, and a lot of that is because of graphics. 2d titles (unless we are talking about the Atari) all have the usual graphics. I don't think there are big jumps in graphics from one SNES game to another, but there are big jumps in N64 games.

There really were some crappy looking titles on the N64. All in all, Ocarina of Time and Majoras Mask were two of the best looking N64 titles but in my view, are beginning to see some real signs of aging, graphically. Still not something that is going to get me to stop playing them though.

[chrisbg99]

As long as the framerate is smooth, aged graphics aren't a big problem.

[Chidori]

You know... If you actually lived in the 64 bit Era, you would know the graphics for Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask were ****ing amazing compared to a lot of games. They aren't on the top 5 but hell they are still great. There is a lot of detail in the background/sky and it's really appealing to look at. I mean compare it with Final Fantasy 7, Sony's big Launch title for the Playstation, Cloud has the physique of Popeye.

However, this topic seems to have somehow changed into a conversation about whether graphics make a game good... *Sigh*. Graphics *do* make a game better, I'm all willing to play a game with crap Graphics (for the certain console) as long as the Gameplay is enjoyable, it just won't end up being my favorite game though. I prefer well... *acceptable* graphics and a brilliant story along with awesome gameplay.

[Akiranon]

Haha, OoT looked beautiful back in the day. "He's even blinking with his eyes!", that's what my parents said when they first saw the game. I still think OoT has really nice lighting effects though, and MM's are even better. Actually, I kinda missed that in TP.

[linkman8]

Well the various lighting effects are sort of taken for granted in the newer games if you think about it. No one pays that much attention to lighting effects, but in truth, that's all the graphics are in the system nowadays. Let me explain.
Think about playing a 360, and imagine it being in HD. Woohoo. Now, imagine how the lighting makes everything so realistic. Now imagine it all disappearing; no lighting at all. Then what do we have? I couldn't even imagine what it would look like, so essentially graphics nowadays with HD are made up of almost entirely of lighting effects.

[Glided Sword]

Graphics don't make a game: the gameplay does. The graphics just make everything look more realistic and just show detail. The graphics aren't the best but the gameplay is.
I find the graphics in A Link to the Past pretty good, even though it is pretty old and I found the Twilight Princess graphics good as well with detail and such.
Either way, graphics don't make a game.

[Petman1325]

Graphics don't make a game: the gameplay does. The graphics just make everything look more realistic and just show detail. The graphics aren't the best but the gameplay is.
I find the graphics in A Link to the Past pretty good, even though it is pretty old and I found the Twilight Princess graphics good as well with detail and such.
Either way, graphics don't make a game.
I really agree with Gilded Sword. Heck, my standards are based on console. Like, I say that Super Smash Bros. Brawl has the best for the Wii, yet Halo 3 for the 360. I can't say anything right now for the PS3, but whatever. Graphics just make the game pleasing to look at. If a game looks horrible (as in Superman 64 horrible), people will play it, yet not for long due to watching bad graphics. Yet games also have graphic styles. Maybe the game was deliberatly designed to be not as good, such as The Wind Waker. I love the graphics, and you can tell they weren't going for realistic. If you thought they were going for real, you are horribly mistaken. Yet some consoles push for realistic graphics on limited parts, such as the N64 and the Wii. I'm just saying that some graphics are deliberatly lower quality, or just what it meets for the console's standards. Yet some people take the standards and push it to the next generation (I would like to see those!). Like expecting to see something that looks like detailed like a Pixtar or a Dreamworks film, it ain't gonna happen for a few years. Just LIVE WITH THE GRAPHICS YOU GOT!!

[chrisbg99]

Whatever person or group started grouping "good graphics" as being "realistic" should have been brought out to the back and shot or at least banned from gaming.

[Mases]

Whatever person or group started grouping "good graphics" as being "realistic" should have been brought out to the back and shot or at least banned from gaming.

While I don't think they should be 'shot' or 'banned from gaming', I do understand the point here and I agree with it.

To me, The Wind Waker is the best graphiced Zelda game and one of the best graphiced games of all time. The game is so far from being realistic, yet to me, it's still an absolutely brilliant looking game.

[Kybyrian]

A true Zelda fan shouldn't just play it for the graphics, of course. I must admit, though, the graphics were pretty cool in Twilight Princess. It doesn't make me like it any better or the other games any worse of course. The Zelda games are good, with excellent graphics or not. I think a too realistic Zelda game would actually be slightly odd.

[chrisbg99]

While I don't think they should be 'shot' or 'banned from gaming', I do understand the point here and I agree with it.

To me, The Wind Waker is the best graphiced Zelda game and one of the best graphiced games of all time. The game is so far from being realistic, yet to me, it's still an absolutely brilliant looking game.

You are probably right but it just bugs me that way too many people think this way.

My favorite graphics from last gen were generally of the cel-shaded variety. Along with The Wind Waker, I'd include Okami, Viewtiful Joe and Killer 7 as my favorites of last gen with Katamari Damacy rounding out the group.

[Skull_Kid]

the most important thing about games is the playability,the puzzles and else,if they make you think and thrill you.
C'mon TLoZ(the original one)still rockz a lot and has crappy graphics now

[Petman1325]

8-bit are far from today's graphics, yet I got four NES games on my Wii, and they kick ***! One of them is Zelda (stupid 4th dungeon!).

[Skull_Kid]

8-bit are far from today's graphics, yet I got four NES games on my Wii, and they kick ***! One of them is Zelda (stupid 4th dungeon!).

Old games still kick ***..specially Kid Icarus,Metroid,LoZ,AL and some others...

[Petman1325]

I'm not being anti-zelda or anything, but Super Mario Bros. for the NES reintroduced video games after the Video Game Crash of 1983. The graphics are suckish by today's standards, but it is the most popular game of all time with over 40.3 million copies sold on every format it has ever appeared on (I might have virtual consoled it). Same for first Zelda. It dropped you in a massive overworld, and people were clueless as what to do with the wide open space. It is still a cool game to millions today, and a lot of video games were made up with TLOZ, only with wireframe and polygons, not sprites, unless certain occasions.

[NoNameC68]

As quite a few people before me have said, the game is older and was for the N64, thus the graphics obviously won't be nearly as good. OoT was considered to have some of the best graphics back in the day.

[Kybyrian]

^ You've got that right, and not to mention was a milestone for the Legend of Zelda series going 3-Dimensional.

[Rebekah]

I dont care for the graphics either I'm just saying that to many people I know say those graphics stink. I dont like old games because of their graphics


so you wont play castlevania or the legend of zelda because the graphics are old? you are missing out >>

true.. TP graphics are actually kind of bad.. i mean ssbm had better graphics.. but graphics are not everything


not playing a game because the graphics are bad is just foolish >>

[Kitsu]

The thing with graphics, is, like any other software, they are in a constant state of evolment, and no matter how advanced they get, there's always going to be something more advanced.
So...A game is only as good as its story, and of course, creativity.

[LinkOwnsYou]

I don't actually care about the graphics tough

but I still don't get why some people (Like my cousin) doesn't Like to play OoT or TP because the graphics where kinda bad, that's foolishness.

[chrisbg99]

so you wont play castlevania or the legend of zelda because the graphics are old? you are missing out >>

true.. TP graphics are actually kind of bad.. i mean ssbm had better graphics.. but graphics are not everything

You are kidding right? Melee had great graphics but Twilight Princess looked a lot better. Details, effects and other showcases of 6 years of working on GameCube tech, made for one of the best looking games on the system, second to maybe Resident Evil 4.

[Claire]

Graphics are totally irrelevant to me if I can comprehend major things around you (i.e. stairs, or platforms).

Really, when I sit and think about it, some of the most enjoyable games I've encountered were dreadful in the graphics department. I am more concerned with game play and a fantastic storyline. If I can find that, even in a game with graphics you'd encounter within the Nintendo Entertainment System, what matters is that it is a good game, despite whatever the graphics are.

[Amelie]

You are kidding right? Melee had great graphics but Twilight Princess looked a lot better. Details, effects and other showcases of 6 years of working on GameCube tech, made for one of the best looking games on the system, second to maybe Resident Evil 4.

Actually... TP had more square edges then SSBM. But its not fair to compare a small game like SMBB to a big game like TP.

Still. TP graphics arent really that good compared to other NGC games.

And like others said. Graphics arent everything. The gameplay is what matters for me.

[chrisbg99]

Whether it was had more square edges or not, TP boasted better details, better effects, pushed more polygons and a strong grasp of the technology at hand by the Zelda team. To claim that TP isn't one the GCNs best looking late gen games is insane.

[Amelie]

I never said it wasnt. It just doesnt look very good compared to other games.

[chrisbg99]

What games are you comparing it to? Gears of War?

I'm comparing it to other last gen games and it was one of the best looking last-generation games.

[Amelie]

No. Other NGC games. Cant other people have there own opinions with out you pointing them out and saying we are insane?

TP wasnt great looking to me compared to other games. Even a Gen before TP. Im talking about NGC. Not Xbox or PS2.

[chrisbg99]

I'm talking about it as a GCN game since that was the system it was made for. And yes you are insane.

[Amelie]

You seriously need to stop picking on people and almost makeing it out like only your opinion matters >>

I know you are talking about NGC. So am I. there are a number of games with more colour.. smoother edges.. and just plain looks better then the dull dark shaded and blurry TP. But thats MY opinion and I think I deserve to have it.

[chrisbg99]

Oh you definitely deserve to have it, but putting out your opinion is asking for it to be questioned and deconstructed. If you don't want that to happen, stop expressing it. Otherwise get over it and grow a backbone.

[Onilink89]

Can both of you drop it already before i have to close the topic and sending out warnings.
~thank you~

[lonely_moon]

The truth is, graphics don't matter as much as people say they do. They are definitely a factor that goes into what makes a good game, but not necessarily a requirement. There are tons of people who play games with awful graphics by today's standards, myself included. As long as it does not hinder your view, sub-par graphics should not detract from the overall game experience. I actually find that games with below-average graphics have a certain charm to them.

As for OoT/MM, the graphics are obviously dated, but bearable. And that is all that should really matter. I may be blinded by nostalgia, though, seeing as I have had my OoT and MM cartridges for years.

[Midna666]

I never said it wasnt. It just doesnt look very good compared to other games.

If you think that TP's graphics are bad,then you are smoking something.

[Crystallion]

Graphics don't really matter that much, if the gameplay is great. That's what the Zelda series has been famous for despite almost always having the same basic formula.

Also, TP looks great, no questions asked. As long as the developers create the right atmosphere, it doesn't matter if you can't see every piece of grass separately.

[Midna666]

Graphics don't really matter that much, if the gameplay is great. That's what the Zelda series has been famous for despite almost always having the same basic formula.

Also, TP looks great, no questions asked. As long as the developers create the right atmosphere, it doesn't matter if you can't see every piece of grass separately.

I agree with what you said.
I want a game to be fan first,and look good second.

[Skull_Kid]

I agree with what you said.
I want a game to be fan first,and look good second.

But a game that is good and looks good rocks, like majora's mask:cool:

I love majora's mask, and how it looks way better than OoT

[Amelie]

The thing that comes first for me is gameplay. Castlevania 64 looks very bad for a 1999 game. But it was fun and thats why I liked it ^^

[bellum]

I love the graphics in MM and Oot^^ and the graphics dont matter that much the gameplay matters to me

[General Lee]

The graphics on OoT are really good in my opinion probably because i grew up on NES/SNES/N64. And graphics will never make a game good. its like 1/4 of a game. If its fun/has a good storyline its a good game to me. I still love playing my atari even though the grapgics are bad. It makes you use your imagination if you know what I mean?But hounestly ive had so manny arguments over how people think graphics make a game. Like some kids at my say halo 3 is better then any NES game. But really thats over 20 years of technology advancement. You just cant compare. At the time im sure OoT/MM had great graphics, just as we are seeing now with the new generation consoles.

[Darunia]

I will play any game that has good enough graphics that I can tell what I am doing.

[Master Kokiri 9]

I hear all these people say they don't like the ghraphics on mm and oot. I don't really care for the graphics just the game story and stuff. It gets annoying when I hear people say I wont play this game cause graphics are terrible.


I bet in 10 years you will say the same thing about tp or ph or ww

Yeah i know it's horrible. At the time the graphics in oot and mm were considered the best of the best. And people are saying the graphics in tp are revolutionary for this gaming era. And like you said they'll probably end up saying the same about the current revoulutionary graphics.

[Zarom]

I saw that I while ago, I tough it was a really good resume, so here it it:

"Noobs play Zelda for the graphics".

or I would even say:

''Noobs play video games for graphics''.




I saw that too:

''Graphics don't make a good game, the story and gameplay does.''

That is that. I played LOZ & AOL yesterday and the day before and I really didn't care AT ALL about the graphics. They are both really good games. As for OOT & MM and any other Zelda. :stalfos:

''Yes, a question for all the people in Hyrule: Life? or Death?''


''Yes, a question for all the people in Hyrule: Gameplay or Graphics??''



I personnally NEVER cared about graphics. It's the game itself that has to be good. :clap::lol::cool::D:wave::nod:

[Fahxy]

sometimes, I actually like the more simplistic graphics. They just grow on you. WW graphics, despite how simple they are, kind of make the gamne more fun. IDK.:P

[fredthehylian]

I personally don't care about graphics. As a retro gamer, this is the argument I'll always have with people. I'll be playing Super Mario Bros 3 (the greatest game of all time) and someone will see doing it during a party and they'll tell me "I think that the company who made that is psycho because they completely ignored the graphics," and I would respond either "If you were there when this game was released, you'd be all over it," or "You think the graphics are bad? Go look at nothing but Atari 2800 games for an hour straight. Then come back and tell me what you think of this," Not to insult the 2800 or anything (I still hate ET though). Graphics basically are a bonus and therefore don't majorly affect the game. In fact, one time I played Halo for a while and ended up hurting my eyes from the intense lighting.

[Nepolink]

In the first case i don't want to see Link in a realistic outfit. Realism will ruin the title of The Legend of Zelda. And i don't think the graphic's were that bad, looking ten years back. The gameplay is what count more than the graphic's, i'm not a huge fan of realistic graphics game, and i also never buy a game because it's good GFX.
I like the way how Twilight Princess is now, the story and the gameplay are really nice and maybe better than a realistic graphic's game with a bad story. I like the old games as OoT and MM ways more than the new releases, because the game play is just perfect. In my opinion a game doesn't need very good or perfect graphic's. All the time they took in making a perfect graphic is killing time to make the gameplay better. Well, i know people who cares more for graphic's than the gameplay, i really hate it when they say why are you playing such as game with bad graphic's... I play also Mario games, i don't care for the graphic's i like the gameplay, alright the mario section is no Zelda.

Anyway some guys are re-texturing the old games MM and OoT. If you have a N64 Emulator you can add the High Resolutions textures with Aristotle. I love the way how they did that. After 10 years someone is giving it a real new GFX.
Mirror Shield re-texture (http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss94/Ganondorf_01/ZELDAMAJORASMASK-5-1.png)
ClockTown (http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss94/Ganondorf_01/ZELDAMAJORASMASK-3-1.png)
Darmani-Snowhead (http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss94/Ganondorf_01/ZELDAMAJORASMASK-11-1.png)
Their are plenty more images but his Photobucket account exceeded the bandwidth, i love to play MM and OoT with those Graphic's, but again i don't say is dislike the official graphic's, a game doesn't need good graphic's to be a great game. I like to play the old N64 games ways more than the new ones on the Nintendo Wii, or it must be the nostalgia.

[nfl797]

I'm allready saying that about those games.

Notice the detail. Compare it to Twilight Princess, the most graphically detailed Nintendo game so far:

Obviously, Twilight Princess is severly lacking in comparison.

Visuals make for a lot of the game, they are "video games" after all. But I agree with you, a game is not good or bad simply because of the quality of the graphics or cinimatics.

The MM and OOT grafs are not that bad and just be glad that nintendo console's never realy have problems!

[Alex_Da_Great]

Well OOT and MM had the best graphics in their time... Why would anyone think it's crap? Well compared to today's graphics, yeah but back then, awesome graphics!

Anyway, who care's about graphics?? :P

[Linkette]

I think Zelda games have quite good graphics as for the consoles they were released, but they don't really matter, as the cutscenes in OoT are as thrilling as if they were very graphically detailed. I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE GRAPHICS!!!

I remember when we got a new HD TV and I expected the Wii graphics to be like PS3...

[Flagpole]

I don't actually care that much about the graphics.

I think games with the more detailed and realistic graphics have the worst graphics.
That may be because I don't like very much the games that simulate real life, I prefer an un-realistic game, like OOT or MM, with not-so-good graphics, but good enough.

Any of you guys think very detailed and realistic graphics suck?

[Death]

I can't imagine any of them looking any other way then they do now, but I guess increasing their resolution is great.

[CZG]

There are two types...

One that goes alongside with technology. Like OoT and TP.
At the time of their release, thery are very acceptable, not the best, but I'm glad they focus on the story and the music too. Some things like the camera angles and such never get old, that's why OoT and MM still look great in some way.

The other are cool handmade graphics. Has any of you tried to improve the graphics of something like and 8 or 16-bit Zelda? Has anybody tried to sprite something? These people were great artist, 3D generation... enjoy eating dust!