Twilight Princess Dungeons: City in the Sky

Axle the BeastFebruary 26th, 2013 by Axle the Beast

I’m going to give a heads-up on this one: Unlike all of my other dungeon reviews, the subject of this one is the only dungeon in the entire Zelda series I think I truly hate. I wrote once before that I’ve never had fun with it at any point, so while I will try my hardest to look for good things in the City in the Sky, this review is going to be virtually entirely negative. This dungeon represents nothing for me but broken dreams, and as such, this will be more rant than review. You’ve been warned!

There’s so little to say about the City in the Sky when it comes to its visuals, audio, and overall themes. It’s a city — er, well, place of some kind — in the sky. There is very little done with the architecture to make it interesting, though. Other locations in Twilight Princess very uniquely make themselves out to be believable locations in the world; the Goron Mines look and feel like mines, and Snowpeak Ruins looks and feels like a frozen-over mansion. The City in the Sky is a city populated by the Oocca, but the only recognizable dwelling is at the beginning, and otherwise the dungeon looks like a nondescript industrial facility. There isn’t really any theme coherence here. That might be fine if the dungeon was cool anyway, but really, the City in the Sky is primarily filled with a massive misuse of the concept. At no point does this dungeon really capture the romance or mystery of being in a settlement that high in the sky. As a result, it fails in capturing the epic qualities that the final main dungeon of the game should have, and even if it didn’t have that lofty goal to rise up to, it’s still thematically boring and just dull to look at.

The closest it ever comes at attempting to feel mysterious or intriguing is in its music, but that theme is also boring and frankly annoying, with weird and irritating noises that manage to only feel appropriate for the Oocca… which would explain why it’s boring and annoying. Aside from those headache inducing sounds, the theme is simply the same recurring tune over and over without any variation. The dungeon only comes alive thematically when the song halts as you enter the boss room, which is actually the top of a tower, with a set of ruined stairs leading to its zenith. Climbing your way around a pillar and reaching the top was actually pretty cool, and helped accomplish some of the feelings I think this entire dungeon should have had.

I think the key word for me with this dungeon is simply “Why?”. Video games are made as entertainment and are supposed to be fun; every element should contribute to or at least not interfere with that fun. Looking at almost every single element in this dungeon just makes me wonder why it’s there in the first place. What about it was supposed to be fun? Why wasn’t it fun? To be more specific:

Why do I have to put on the Iron Boots and stop every few seconds on the major walkways? Why do the upward drafts start and stop instead of being available all the time? Why do the Peahats move so slowly if I need to ride them to progress? Why am I walking over these narrow bridges which I’ll fall off if I don’t already know to shoot the Keese ahead of time? Why do I have to spend so much time waiting for contraptions to move into place in general? WHY ARE THERE DINOSAURS IN THE SKY?

These all accomplish nothing but slowing you down. There isn’t significant health-loss to worry about, and there aren’t any real navigational puzzles… it’s simply a bunch of time-consuming chores designed not to challenge the player, but to simply slow them down for no reason. How was I supposed to have fun stopping and starting on the bridges with the Iron Boots just so I could get past the wind? Navigational stops like these can actually be fun if they are stimulating in some way, or at least are brief and are more a matter of timing than anything else. But timing never really comes into play here in the City in the Sky. It’s all just annoying.

It’s also hugely irritating to have to reset entire rooms if you fall. To be fair, the City in the Sky faced the unique challenge of being a dungeon built around huge heights, so the game resetting the room when you fall was always going to provide its own design challenges. That said, why didn’t they change it or design around it? Why couldn’t you start nearer to the platform you fell off? Or, alternatively, why couldn’t the rooms have been designed to be shorter yet more numerous so that each fall didn’t set you back as much? It’s funny, because in a better game, I’d be happy to play through an area where I fell a lot. But in Twilight Princess, here in the City in the Sky, platforming is not an enjoyable challenge; it’s an obnoxious grind.

Most of the dungeon’s regular enemies provide the same annoyance. Fights in this dungeon are not interesting combat most of the time; they’re excuses to have things push you off the sides. Most of the enemies are either basic foes you fought at the beginning of the game and will have no trouble with, or are specifically placed to knock you off in precarious locations, like Keese and Helmasaurs. Actual fights are few and far between (and mostly against familiar foes anyway), so enemy presence mostly just extends the same frustrations found in the platforming.

The dungeon layout is also really confusing, which is so weird because the player’s path through it is so straightforward. You go North a little bit, then briefly West, then all the way East, then back West along the only available path, and then again East, and pretty much the whole time there is only one available path that you haven’t yet explored. So why was it so difficult for me to tell where I was supposed to go? Simple, the room layouts defy reason; pathways and Clawshot targets jut out of the walls at random. It’s a simple matter of going from Point A to Point B, but it functions more like trying to play Connect the Dots where the dots are black and the background is also black. Now, given that the dungeon is based on a painting by M.C. Escher — which is actually pretty awesome — you’d think that a degree of confusion of this kind would be acceptable. And maybe it would, but not like it’s presented in the City in the Sky, in an uninspired straight line with an uninteresting setting and no real logic guidelines to follow at all. The Forest Temple in Ocarina of Time also accomplished the feel of Escher’s work, and I consider it the best-designed dungeon of the series; the City in the Sky can’t use its inspiration as an excuse.

At the very least, the Double Clawshot is a cool item, and while it’s not really used for puzzle-solving, the ‘shot items rarely are, and the navigational opportunities it provides are actually pretty cool. Generally speaking, this dungeon’s best (read: only good) moments are when you simply find yourself Clawshotting around from target to target.

The miniboss, the Aeralfos, is actually a fairly neat original enemy idea for the game, but not really an interestingly-executed design, particularly for a miniboss. It feels underwhelming to come to the end of the game and find nothing more than a Lizalfos with wings, and once again the only interesting part of the fight involves waiting for it to stop and attack as it flies around; he’s just a time-waster, like the rest of the dungeon’s elements. Aeralfos definitely feels like something they threw in at the end because they couldn’t think of anything else, and it should have just been a normal enemy. Ironically like other minibosses — such as the Darknut — they do appear as normal enemies later, but ridiculously, they do so within the same dungeon. And Argorok? What can I say? He’s a dragon fought at the top of a tower that looks over an entire airborn city, with one of the dungeon’s only impressive thematic moments leading up to him; he should have been epic. But, between the sluggishness of the battle as it’s spent waiting for him to attack, gradually Clawshotting your way around, and the fight’s recycled music from Morpheel, I can’t feel even the slightest bit gripped during this fight. I blame a large part of this on the music — it’s hard to feel you’re in an epic fight like this when the music is so low and ominous, and I once fought the boss to Castlevania music and I actually found it fun — but it’s also inherently laid-back in design, and that was just the wrong way to go with a fight like this.

I will admit that I’m not sure I’m able to be objective about this dungeon at all. When I first played it I had at least some expectations given my time with the rest of the game, and I came to the dungeon after a hard day of work, for which a nice long session of Twilight Princess was my reward to myself. And I was greeted with the single most underwhelming dungeon of the series. It’s safe to say that this experience helped paint my feelings about the dungeon, but every time I play it again I try hard to like it and my opinion of it just gets worse and worse; I think it’s safe to say there’s something wrong with it.

The City in the Sky is the only dungeon out of the entire series I feel comfortable saying that I “hate”, and while that’s still probably an exaggeration, it comes the closest to describing my feelings about the place. I simply do not have fun with the City in the Sky, and I never have. The briefest moments of enjoyment — using the Double Clawshot, navigating up to the battle with Argorok — are so brief they mean nothing for the dungeon overall. It’s just a mess, and Nintendo should have done so much better; they have in the past, even within the same game. It is, to me, Zelda’s worst dungeon of all-time.

But… what about you? Do you agree with me, or did you actually like it? Share your stories of frustration and enjoyment alike in the comments, and look forward to next week when I review the Palace of Twilight!

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  • Ghoti

    I’ve given up on TP, so I never got this far. I got to the Water Temple, and I can’t take it anymore. The game is just too slow paced and dull.

    • Guy

      That is one of the main objections to TP. The game gets a lot better at the end, but it’s not everyone’s type :D

      • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

        Personally I think the best parts of TP are in the first half. The actual game progression is smooth and the plot develops nicely right up until you get to the Arbiter grounds. Then it starts sliding down hill from there……

        • JuicieJ

          Until the final boss fights, which hit you like a brick to the face.

          • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

            You mean the final boss fights as in Ganondorf? or the string of bosses leading to the end like Argorok and so on. Also my assumption is that when you say getting hit with a brick to the face you mean they weren’t good final fights.

          • JuicieJ

            I mean the final four boss fights with Ganon, and I mean they had fantastic presentation.

          • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

            Mehhhhhh…. the battle against Beast Ganon is actually probably the highlight of the entire match.

            The other parts of this final show down were kind of blah.

            You already know my feelings about Possessed Zelda. It’s neat to see Zelda as a evil entity, but the actual battle was bland and was nothing new or exciting for me.

            Phase 3 was tedious. I thought the idea of a cool, a horseback fight at first would be pretty epic. Except that the majority of this battle involves chasing Ganondorf in circles around the field, which kind of took away from the pace of the battle. Not to mention you get de-horsed every time you are hit basically, and then Ganondorf sits in the distance while you get back on your horse just kind of was silly.

            Phase 4 felt like it was trying to be a bit too much like Ocarina of Time yet again. A caged match with Zelda standing on the outside of the ring (although again Ocarina of Time did this better with a ring of fire). Not to mention it bothers me that this fight comes down to simply waiting for Ganondorf to charge at Link to trigger the “mash A to win” scenario. To be honest it was a pretty flat climax.

            Presentation wise I guess it did a good job, with the whole fighting ato Hyrule Castle with a moody stormy sky. They created a lot of typical fantasy showdown moments. I just found this overall to be a bit of an underwhelming final battle among Zelda games.

          • JuicieJ

            I… said presentation, not gameplay. lol

            Although I have to disagree on the last two phases, especially 4. The final fight with Ganon in OoT is one of the most underwhelming and repetitive fights in gaming history despite its incredible atmosphere. Ganondorf may not have been incredible in TP, but at least you can have an actual sword duel with him.

          • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

            Fighting a giant beast version of Ganondorf surrounded by flames after being disarmed is hardly underwhelming. That’s as epic as it gets.

            The fight required you the player to come up with an alternative means to take Ganon down. Whether this meant using light arrows, the Megaton Hammer (or if you had it the Biggoron Sword). The struggle for survival is strong.

            His weak point may have been a little too obvious, but at least the battle made sense in that you needed to do a set amount of damage to him.

            Compared to Ganondorf in TP where you can actually evade him and save your energy and not attack waiting for the inevitable charge forward animation that triggers that “mash A” event.

            I suppose though if you don’t catch this mind you you could potentially be locked in battle with Ganondorf for hours. Repeatedly slashing and parrying or whatever. Making the fight seem like it’s a challenge and a real test of combat ability. The truth is the final phase is sort of an illusion, a trick to milk out the battle. It’s as epic and impressive as you want it to be as you lay down moves that do no damage against him, or you can simply sit and wait for the inevitable trigger.

          • JuicieJ

            No, Ganon in OoT is repetitive. All you do is stun him and hit his tail over and over again. Either that or roll under him and hit his tail over and over again. It’s dull. It’s boring. The only thing that makes it remotely memorable is the presentation and atmosphere. The gameplay is ugh.

            You can actually beat Ganondorf in TP without using the chance. It takes a while, but it’s possible. And, honestly, if you just sit there and wait for him to do it, you’re depriving yourself of a good challenge.

          • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

            All the bosses in OoT follow a similar pattern for defeating the boss.

            This was a limitation of the tech…. there wasn’t much else they could do.

            All boss battles revolved around a “stun the boss then slash them repeatedly” mechanic. Repetition is what most of Zelda boss fights are about.

            Look at Gohma shoot in the eye to stun and then slash the eye to die….

            Dodongo… throw a bomb in his mouth and stun him and then slash until dead.

            Phantom Ganondorf…. repel the energy ball back until it stuns him and then run up and lay into him with slashes.

            Volvagia hit with a hammer stun and slash.

            Bongo Bongo… stun both hands and eye and go to town.

            You seem to consider how you control characters as part of the game play a lot. Controls are the buttons you push or the specific techniques you execute in order to complete a task. Yet this isn’t necessarily the game play.

            Game play is a combination of things…. and a part of Zelda’s boss game play is “figuring out HOW to defeat” the boss. Zelda bosses usually involve a certain level of trying to figure out what items to use in order to defeat the boss.

            Sadly this is generally spelled out for people now a days versus the past which gave more variety in the ways to dispose of enemies and bosses. Something Skyward Sword gave me hope for as the enemies reacted to different items and their uses.

            Also getting into the whole “challenge aspect” of Twilight Princess isn’t something that should be talked about considering the extremely forgiving nature of TP’s heart loss…. Ganondorf does basically a half heart of damage it’s embarrassing. There’s a fairy and hearts in the pots surrounding the arena, and you can even use the fishing rod to easily make Ganondorf lower his guard. Not to mention even if you go and do it the “long way” it’s not more of a challenge, it’s just more wasting time spamming attacks. Cause at the end of the day you will still need to perform the chance in order to deal the final blow.

            The battle doesn’t take any particular skill with the sword fighting what so ever. It’s why I praise the fight with Demise so much in Skyward Sword. If you want a real sword battle that’s where it is. That’s where there is actually game play to be had from sword fighting. Where there is thought in your strikes and technique to how you strike.

          • JuicieJ

            The difference is Ganon’s fight isn’t stimulating. (Well… Gohma and Dodongo did, too, but after them, the bosses really picked up.) He walks up to you, stands there, swings… and that’s it. That’s all he can do. He doesn’t have any variety to his tactics.

            Ganondorf, on the other hand, actually has multiple moves and responds to yours. His damage ratio is pathetic, yes, but he’s active and diverse, unlike Ganon. I’m not saying it’s one of the best fights in the series. I’m just saying it’s actually pretty good, whereas Ganon… is one of the worst.

          • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

            Personally I just found the final fight with Ganondorf in Twilight Princess anywhere near stimulating. It’s all about spamming. No strategy, no technique, no difficulty.

            It’s about button mashing and that to me is more a bore then a simplistic fight. I hate the idea that mindlessly attacking something will lead to victory.

            I’m not trying to say that Ganon in OoT is the best fight ever… but I certainly put it above TP’s final show down. It’s personally why I even greatly prefer TP’s Beast Ganon form over both those fights. There is a strategy and skill involved and there is a weakness to discover and exploit as the fight progresses.

            Mindless button pressing and spamming never equates to stimulating game design.

          • JuicieJ

            If you just spam, you’re going to get hit. There’s no questioning that. If you choose to go 1:1 against him, you have to duck and weave constantly. Just like with Demise. (Of course, Demise deals a significant amount of more damage and requires more strategy, but it’s still more than Ganon.)

  • EOTW

    I never really cared for this dungeon either, but I didn’t hate it. I’ve never had trouble with Keese or Kargoroks because I always pick them off from a distance before getting anywhere near them, but I guess that’s just my play style.

    • http://axlethebeast.com/ Axle the Beast

      That’s only possible if you’re able to realize they’re there ahead of time. xP

      • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

        Not to mention someone of them may not be in your line of vision as they circle around in the open area’s. Making missing them a definite possibility. Also some of them are programmed to fall into the player range only after you are in the middle of travling over pits.

        Meaning you are forced to simply stun them with your clawshot. Still an annoyance when you aren’t even aware they are there.

  • Guy

    Another great dungeon reflection, axle :D !

  • ShadowBeast

    I agree. This dungeon could have been so cool if they’d just done more work on it. It’s such a pity because the dungeon is an interesting idea, but it needed more thought. Twilight Princess is very strange with dungeons, some are AMAZING and are obviously well thought out, and others fail. Miserably.

  • Zervah

    It’s curious; back in 2007, this is the very first dungeon from TP that I saw, since I was playing it with my cousin that was having a blast with his new Wii.

    I thought it was a neat place, a cool sky dungeon ( although not as cool as Palace of Winds from MC ) but overall, the place seems messed up; it’s long, boring and tedious, maybe even more so than most dungeons in TP, even more so than the infamous Water Temple from OoT ( which I love btw )

    I can’t help but think that Nintendo added the concept of the Oocaa and the City in the Sky later in development, trying to make it feel more complete. I’ll say it; Twilight Princess would have done nicely with just seven temples and Hyrule Castle, because whole experience that City in the Sky offers is just… meh. It’s just not worth it. Palace of Twilight suffers the same experience.

    And they really messed up with the boss battle. Really? The dragon waits patiently until you reach the top to knock it off? Lame move Nintendo, totally lame, a dragon deserves a more epic battle. It’s my least favorite fight in the series. Hell, ever Armogohma’s battle wasn’t that long.

    Great article Axle! I’m looking forward your review on Hyrule Castle.

    • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

      The WaterTemple was always frustrating in a good way because it’s actually puzzling. It made you think how to navigate the dungeon. How to move the water around to your advantage. One of the few dungeons that using the map actually helps and feels essential.

      City in the Sky is frustrating in a bad way because of it’s tedious nature and it’s trudging pace. The actual dungeon didn’t have a whole lot of puzzles, and it pretty much tells you where to go and guides you along the proper path to the end. It’s just kind of this slow, go from point A to point B sort of dungeon.

      I don’t mind being challenged by a dungeon, at least if I’m challenged I will ultimately feel rewarded in solving the puzzle. Where as getting to the end of City in the Sky is more a feeling of relief… not reward. Your just thankful to not be hanging from another fan or peahat for the remainder of the game.

  • http://www.facebook.com/adam.w.herrick Adam William Herrick

    I absolutely loved the City in the Sky. I personally felt that it’s departure from the vibrant and characteristic themes of other dungeons sort of set it apart in a way. And all this light simple architecture cleverly reflects one other thing; the sky itself. Sometimes simple, sometimes confusing, light and mysterious.

    • Jono

      Yeah. It’s one of my favorite dungeons in the series, honestly. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Axle has actually disliked most of my favorite dungeons, now that I think about it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/adam.w.herrick Adam William Herrick

        Which other’s didn’t he like? This i the first I’ve seen him really be so negative.

  • SkullKid

    I hated the city in the sky beacuse in the part you have to descend from the turned off fan (in the room where you get the boss key) i accidentally fell in the main room,and had to go all the way back to that room,and when i arrived,it hapened AGAIN. but i love the argorok battle,it was fun to me,but yeah,the music dosn’t fit

    • Mike

      Haha um…you can clawshot back up there…

  • JuicieJ

    To put how I feel about this dungeon into perspective while keeping it short, I’m going to have to make a comparison. There are two dungeons from The Wind Waker that I dislike for very different reasons. First being the Forbidden Woods, second being the Wind Temple. I dislike the Forbidden Woods because I feel like I’m in a stasis the entire time until I get to the boss (which is actually really fun). I dislike the Wind Temple because is has insanely annoying design.

    As for the City in the Sky… it goes beyond dislike into the realm of hate (as with Axle) because it somehow manages to have both of the previous aspects I just mentioned. The only positive things that came out of this dungeon were obtaining the Double Clawshots and the designs of the Aerofols and Argorok. Everything else is a joke.

    • toonlinkuser

      Wow, you made it a whole post without praising Skyward Sword. Impressive.

      • JuicieJ

        >Implying every post I make has some sort of praise for SS

        Can you seriously stop trolling me about this sort of stuff? I have clearly criticized SS multiple times in the past. There just happen to be a lot of things it excelled at that many people criticize due to misunderstanding or misinterpreting the design mechanics. I’ll criticize and defend any game when necessary. I always strive to be fair in my judgement.

        Thank you.

        • toonlinkuser

          It’s words like “misunderstanding” and “misinterpreting” that annoys me the most. It implies that people are stupid and doing things wrong, when in reality they are actual design flaws. Just because the controls worked the ways the developers intended to, does not mean they are perfect. Just because you had no trouble with the controls, it doesn’t mean that other people had issues with stabbing or the lack of using the IR sensor.

          • JuicieJ

            First off, I have made the clear distinction between “flawless” and “perfect” when regarding SS’s controls. Perfect would mean they couldn’t be improved at all. There’s nothing that could be added onto them to make them better than they are. That’s not the case. Flawless, however, simply means that there are no inherent problems. There aren’t any technical issues with Skyward Sword’s Wii MotionPlus, and that’s all I’ve ever claimed to be fact when discussing Skyward Sword (because it is a fact). Everything else I’ve just backed up with strong arguments.

            Second, I’m only going to say someone is “misunderstanding” or “misinterpreting” something if he/she really is. It’s entirely possible to make an inaccurate statement when discussing an opinionated topic. Typically this is only going to be semantics, but occasionally it’s not, and that’s the case with a couple of SS’s design choices. Namely in the combat. Some people call it slow, but it’s not. It’s just a different kind of fast-paced action than what you would see in, say, Devil May Cry. (Going into detail would take way too long, and I’ve already discussed it on many occasions, so I don’t see the point in doing so now.) Do understand that this is not me saying SS’s combat is perfect. There are definitely more things that could have been done with it (as with every other combat system in Zelda) It’s just extremely polished and engaging.

            All in all, you’re just overexaggerating my praise of SS (although I definitely have a part to play in this with me rushing to its defense left and right). But I do criticize it frequently. Just not nearly as frequently as I praise it. Reason being it deserves a lot more praise than it does criticism. It was a step in the right direction towards bringing Zelda back to its roots while maintaining the excellent presentation values of modern Zelda (as well as adding in some new ideas). But it was just a step. It didn’t come full circle like Super Mario Galaxy did with the Mario franchise. It seems like Zelda Wii U may be the game to finally do what Skyward Sword came close to doing, though, so I’m significantly looking forward to what Nintendo has to offer with their next console Zelda debut.

          • toonlinkuser

            Again, flawless and perfect are synonyms. They mean the same exact thing.

            One of the main reason that I do not love Skyward Sword is because it had nearly no ambition, apart from the controls.

            I don’t need to explain how OoT was ambitious.

            MM had an ambitious time system and 3 extra playable characters.

            WW had a vast sea where you could go nearly anywhere, and an art style that took massive guts to put into a console Zelda game.

            TP had 9 dungeons, an more mature art style, big, epic places, and the ability to play as a wolf.

            SS had great sword controls and… not much else. None of the worlds are connected, except by that awful sky with those pathetic islands with a chest and nothing else. You may like the art style, but I felt it was dull and too much of a compromise between WW and TP. The level design was linear and flat, which was one of the biggest problems. Games like WW had a much better level design because of access to items like the deku leaf that could get you very far. The developers needed to be smart and fine tune every dungeon and area to make sure that you cannot get everywhere with the deku leaf, while also making the stages compact enough to realistically put on an island.

            I remember that the Sky was implemented late in the development of SS, and that is why I think everything is poorly connected. The developers probably made the individual levels first, then could not figure out how to connect them together. If you go to the ground and look up, you will not see a thick wall of clouds like you do in Skyloft, but a just a Normal Sky.

            A bit off topic, but another point you usually bring up is wrong. You claim that SS has a ridiculous amount of ways to kill enemies. However, this number is actually the same in WW and SS.

            In SS, to kill a moblin you can- Kill with Sword, Sword beam, arrows, bombs, slingshot throw a pot, drop bomb with beetle, hit into chasm, hit into fire, hit into water, and probably a few other ways.

            In WW, to kill a moblin you can- Kill with sword, parry, hit with bomb, hit with cannon, hit with hammer, hit with arrow, burn with arrow, light with arrow, freeze and then throw with arrow, throw pots, throw enemy into water, throw enemy into chasm or fire, hit enemy with picked up weapon.

            This is literally the same amount of ways, if not more.

          • JuicieJ

            Synonyms aren’t the same thing. They’re words with similar meanings. This is the case with “flawless” and “perfect”. In order to be perfect, something must be flawless, yes, but something can have no design flaws and still not have reached its fullest potential, i.e. not achieve perfection.

            First off, ambition and execution are two completely different things. The Great Sea may have had ambition, but sailing it was bland due to the sheer lack of content compared to how large it was (same with TP’s overworld and the Sky). High ambition, bad execution. Twilight Princess may have had ambition in its attempt a darker, edgier tone, but it also tried to stick to the whimsical fantasy vibe that the series had been founded on, so it wound up producing two clashing tones the entire time. The wolf from was also insanely one-dimensional and severely underused. High ambition, bad execution.

            Second… how did Skyward Sword not have any ambition beyond the controls? It brought a much faster pace to the combat and overall flow of the game, introduced multiple new ideas, thought outside of the box with things like the Timeshift Stones, and provided some of the most devious and dangerous level design in franchise history. The game was linear (just like TWW and TP), yes, but the surface portions had extreme depth and were generally free of hallways. They were very reminiscent of A Link to the Past in terms of content-to-size ratio (though sadly not in exploration). As for the dungeons, Zelda hadn’t seen the kind of ingenuity they had since Majora’s Mask. They were heavily diverse both in tone and core design, and had brain-teasing puzzles, as well as deadly enemies & hazards. If all that isn’t ambitious, then I don’t know what is.

            The Wind Waker had more ways to beat enemies than most other Zelda games, yes. This is a good thing, since it has the least amount of enemy variety in the whole series. The thing is, though, the enemies themselves are one-dimensional. Very few of them require legitimately different tactics to be defeated. The same can’t be said about Skyward Sword. Enemies have a lot of depth to them due to having multiple ways of being defeated alongside of improved AI and different combat tactics. I’ve honestly discussed the diversity of SS’s combat in the wrong way in the past. (Well, not the wrong way, just in an incomplete way.) I’ve never really discussed the depth of the enemies themselves, and that’s one of the biggest reasons why SS’s combat is so impressive.

          • toonlinkuser

            https://www.google.com/search?q=flawless&aq=f&oq=flawless&aqs=chrome.0.59j60j0j5j0j62.2777&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=5&gs_ri=psy-ab&pq=is%20flawless%20the%20same%20as%20perfect&cp=11&gs_id=17&xhr=t&q=flawless+definition&es_nrs=true&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=flawless+de&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=720814b30d9c2481&biw=1120&bih=620

            I disagree with how you say WW did not succeed with the sea. The islands in WW were interesting and full of life, and the distance between the islands made the sea feel real and believable, unlike in the Sand Sea where it was a half mile radius with loading screens to get anywhere. The Great Sea may have had positives and negatives, but a smaller sea would produce more negatives then positives.

            Anyway, TimeShift stones were great, but they were just a small portion (sadly) of the game. It could of easily been made into an entire game. The one thing that SS did well has have a better controlling link, especially with running and stamina. But too many of the puzzles ended up being “Run Through Sand Until you reach solid Ground!.”

            While other 3D Zelda games are indeed Linear, SS took Linearity to a whole new level. Instead of finding your way to an area every once in a while, Fi would mark on the map exactly where you should go. Even the Sky Map is completely marked from the very beggining. The dungeons and overworld was not a hallway, but you still took a straight path to the next destination nearly everytime. The only part without Linearity was the 6 hours of padding in the end with the Dragons. The first 4 dungeons were great, but thats the biggest problem with the game. After the Koloktos battle, (fantastic battle) and maybe up to the sand ship, the game didn’t get better. The last hours of the game felt like they were just padding to reach a higher game time.

            In SS the enemies were just as easy as other games to beat. All you do is attack their weak point once with a sword and the “WAGGLE WAGGLE WAGGLE WAGGLE WAGGLE dead.” You can even just not Z target enemies and they won’t defend themselves. Although the enemies had a great variation in style, they were all pretty much a variation of a ‘slash the giant glowing horizontal/vertical/diagonal line’,

          • JuicieJ

            I’m done here. I don’t feel like wasting my time explaining everything to you when you’re just gonna throw it aside with no solid counterarguments.

          • toonlinkuser

            What wasn’t solid?

          • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

            “Just because you had no trouble with the controls, it doesn’t mean that
            other people had issues with stabbing or the lack of using the IR
            sensor.”

            The thing about Skyward Sword and it’s controls is that you can’t criticize them for being bad or poor due how they were designed.

            You could how ever make the argument that it was a bad choice for the developers to go with this control scheme on the basis that it would cause players to be alienated due to their own inability to perform the controls.

            The simple truth is the controls work. They are responsive and perform as expected if the player executes the movement correctly. The problem is players often don’t perform the gestures properly, even if they believe they are. So that’s where you get people who think “well the controls are broken/don’t work”. Cause everyone moves their body differently and has their own idea of what it takes to perform a stab.

            At the end of the day Skyward Sword control issues predominantly lies on the fault of those playing.

            That said the controls work, the question becomes whether or not it was a good or bad choice for Nintendo to implement such controls. In regards to how Skyward Sword is designed I personally think they did. It wouldn’t be the game it is with out it.

          • toonlinkuser

            Again, just because the controls worked well most of the time, does not mean that they were perfect. I actually had only minor problems with the controls, but I can understand why someone would find them frustrating. Stabbing had to be done by jolting the controller forward half of an inch, or otherwise it would just slash.

            Lets say I make a game where to perform a certain move, you have to press the A and Y button together at the same time (on Wii U gamepad). Even if I performed the move 100% of the time when I presses A and Y, it would still be poor design, because A and Y are not next to each other and are hard to hit together. Would this still be the players fault despite the fact that it is poor design? Because that is essentially the argument you are making.

            And you cannot tell me that you NEVER had a problem with the controls in SS.

          • JuicieJ

            I had problems with the controls, but they weren’t due to flawed design. They were due to me messing up due to the learning curve. Now I can play the game and never experience any trouble.

          • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

            The comparison of hitting two buttons not near each other isn’t the same as the comparison between performing a single movement to execute an attack.

            Performing the sword stab isn’t hard, may take some time to learn but I can perform it 100% when I want to. Just like throwing bombs or anything else.

            This is probably the worst comparison I’ve ever read. Hitting two buttons on opposite ends of a controller is no where near similar to performing a motion.

          • toonlinkuser

            I think you missed the point of my argument. I’m saying that just because the designers made something in a way they intended to, does not mean it is perfect.

          • JuicieJ

            Your comparison was still awful. It’s not difficult to execute the motions required in Skyward Sword. That makes your argument moot.

            He’s also not saying the controls are perfect. Like me, he’s saying they’re flawless, as in there are no problems existent in their design. They’re not perfect, as that would mean they couldn’t possibly be better than they currently are, which they’re not. (I’m serious, dude, there is a difference between the two words. It’s partially semantics, but it’s a difference nonetheless.)

          • toonlinkuser
          • JuicieJ

            Look, in order to be perfect, something must be flawless. I think we can all agree on that. But flawless doesn’t mean perfect. Let’s go with an example. Say you wrote a paper for an assignment. After enough proofreading, you got rid of all grammar issues, meaning no punctuation errors or improper tenses. By definition, that paper is flawless. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t certain lines you could have worded better (and there will always be lines you could have worded better). This means the paper isn’t perfect. There may not be any flaws on it, but it could be better than it is.

            See what I mean now?

            Also, the controls DO work 100% of the time. They never mess up. Any and all problems are human error, whether due to swinging inaccurately or calibrating improperly. The fact that it’s possible to play the game without experiencing issues is proof of this.

            Honestly, I’m surprised people didn’t expect to have trouble with them. The Wii MotionPlus is not a familiar thing. The accuracy required to get the game to do what you want is pretty pinpoint. There’s no slacking off. What’s hilarious is that people still mess up with button controls, but they don’t blame the game because they know they messed up. (Well, most people, anyway.) Why would you expect to not experience trouble when your whole freaking arm is the controller?

          • toonlinkuser

            So it’s human error when the thing goes out of calibration? It’s my fault if I have to recenter it constantly?

          • JuicieJ

            The Wii MotionPlus is designed to read where it’s being pointed as center. If you hold it still in a certain position long enough, it’ll recalibrate itself to that angle. That’s player error for pointing the Wii Remote away from the screen for an extended period of time. If you point it at the center of the screen, though, it’ll actually recalibrate itself immediately (so long as you have the sensor bar plugged in, which isn’t required), so it’s not difficult to get it back on track at all. Also, if you point the Wii Remote away from the screen and go into first person view or pull out an item that requires aiming, it’ll read that position as center, which is why Nintendo put in the function of pressing down on the d-pad to center it properly.

            So, yes, it’s human error.

          • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

            Well perfection is subjective, and for the most part nothing is perfect.

            Nor was my argument ever that the controls of Skyward Sword were perfect.

            What I did say is that they work. Meaning they were designed very well. It’s not obscurely designed, or bizarrely implemented. Not to mention it isn’t that hard to learn.

            I personally NEVER had problems with the controls in SS.

            The controls did take PRACTICE how ever to perform. Like throwing a football or tossing a ball. When you throw a football if you don’t do it right it will just fall flat, but thrown properly it will reach it’s intended target with accuracy.

            The controls of SS are similar in that respect. They initially take some practice to properly perform the motions, which still come very naturally as they designed the motion you perform to execute a move that resembles the motion.

            Still it was a very small amount of practice in order to master the moves. Again though you can’t blame the controls for being bad when the fault lies in the player.

            It would be like a football player blaming the ball for a bad throw.

          • JuicieJ

            Wow, great analogy. Why didn’t I think of that? XD

        • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

          “There just happen to be a lot of things it excelled at that many people
          criticize due to misunderstanding or misinterpreting the design
          mechanics”

          Sums up exactly what it’s like talking to you about the Wind Waker….. XD

          • JuicieJ

            Not really. We’ve actually agreed on a lot of things. It’s just comparing TWW to TP that we’ve differed on. Well, save the Great Sea.

          • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

            Yeah we do agree on numerous points and issues , but what I am saying is trying to talk to you about the Wind Waker is the exact feeling I have, that you experience when talking about Skyward Sword.

          • JuicieJ

            With how few things we’ve disagreed on and me saying that it’s a good game?

          • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

            I mean we agree on various points and issues regarding the entire Zelda series, wasn’t referring to any specific Zelda title.

          • toonlinkuser

            Wind Waker WAS a flawed game. Sailing could get boring, the triforce quest was not that great, and their were too few dungeons.

            But it is still my favorite game of all time, due to what it does accomplish. The graphics are still unbeaten to this day, the music is incredible, and the level design is superb.

          • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

            It has flaws, but every Zelda game has flaws. The question is how many flaws a Zelda game has and how greatly they impact the game. Not to mention sometimes a flaw isn’t a flaw, but simply a matter of opinion.

      • JuicieJ

        I just have to know, would it help for me to post a comment outlining what was wrong with Skyward Sword? I could give you a pretty decently-sized list.

  • Aaron hill

    this was my least favorite dungeon of TP and i had trouble to have any fun with it but the architecture i thought was pretty good.

  • Jam9t3

    Ah, when the ‘City in the Sky’ was first mentioned in the game, I couldn’t wait to reach it, after finding every bloody owl statue, the cannon was finally ready. I imagined the City to be atop clouds… with lots of nice jumping obstacles and puzzles, a magical item to be found which would suit a city in the sky (I guessed the Pegasus boots). I left it to Nintendo, since their previous Zelda games were amazing, a City in the sky sounded magical. No. I got broken up ruins which is a holy temple now for the creepiest and freakiest creatures called Ooccoos, who have the body of a chicken but a face of a human (who looks in pain), whats next? A pig with an elephant trunk? yes that would be a lot less scary. But seriously, its like Nintendo lost all imagination and creativity with this game, what happened to magic? I mean, its like switching from ‘Adventure’ to ‘Horror’.

  • Michael Medina

    I LOVE this dungeon, though i can’t understand why you don’t like the palace of twilight, which in my opinion is better than this dungeon.

  • Cinnamon

    I actually liked this dungeon. I found the style and setting neat, and altough the navigation could have been a lot better, I did have fun trying to find my way around. This dungeon provided a type of challenge that most other TP dungeons were missing, and my habit of shooting anything that flies came in handy for once (which was very satisfying).

    Altough I did have problems as well. Mainly, the Navigation could have been better, both the mid and main boss were dissapointing and the peahats should’ve moved faster. Also, having to re-enter a room to reset it. I remember coming to the top of a room, just to discover a chest i forgot, I went to get the chest (50 Rupees) and had to do everything over.
    It might’ve helped that I entered this dungeon with very low expectations, thanks to your earlier articles ;)
    Its probably one of my favourites from TP even, I loved the mood. Not the best, but I liked it.

  • Lupine Hero

    I agree with most of your points, but most of them didn’t actually bother me that much. Being my first Zelda game, and likely the game that made me an actual gamer, even the City in the Sky seemed awesome to me. Basically, I acknowledge that many parts would bother most people, but I personally loved the dungeon at least as much as the others.

    And now begins my rant about Argorok. I’ve yet to be very impressed by any of Zelda’s dragons, but Argorok was disappointing beyond reason. Last week, you said Armogohma was the easiest boss, but I think Argorok is much easier (yes, much easier). In addition to all the points you made about him (I agree with them all), his attacks are ridiculously easy to avoid. The only remotely hard part of the fight is when he switches directions while breathing fire at the end of his third phase, which can easily be avoided if you know it’s coming. And even if he does hit you… ooh, look, I still have sixteen hearts.

    Seriously, I kind of want to try killing him on a three-heart wooden sword run and put on the Zora armor for the fight. Based on previous experience, I’d give myself a 95% of winning; usually I beat him without taking any damage. He’s the easiest and most disappointing boss I’ve ever fought. Now, Nintendo, put a REALLY COOL DRAGON BOSS IN ZELDA WII U PLEASE!!!!!!!

    • http://axlethebeast.com/ Axle the Beast

      I’ve done Argorok on the glitched Wooden Sword run, actually. And it’s infuriating; he’s one of the only bosses in the game that the Wooden Sword won’t work on at all. It does no damage to him. >_<

      • Lupine Hero

        Okay, thanks for the heads-up.

    • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

      “The only remotely hard part of the fight is when he switches directions
      while breathing fire at the end of his third phase, which can easily be
      avoided if you know it’s coming.”

      This is something about the boss fight that actually bothers me. Cause the truth is it’s not expected the first time you fight him.

      Naturally everyone who plays this will get his by it, and it just buys time and makes the dungeon longer as you have to trudge your way back to the top. Slowing the boss fight down, and adding to the overall theme of the dungeon.

      Still it’s a cheap shot and even if you don’t grapple straight into it, you likely won’t turn around fast enough to avoid it the first time.

  • Talicor

    I agree! I absolutely hate the dragging grind that is the City in the Sky. But Agarok is one of my favorite bosses! So I can bear it at the very least. There’s just something about slaying a dragon in a 3D zelda that is too epic to push aside!!

  • Ender44

    The city of sky SUCKED! The getting to the city was a huge build up only for us to be let down. The boss was fun the first time when i was listening to megaman music. But when i played it with the actual music on, it was incredibly boring.

  • fused_shadows

    Can you read minds? Read mine perfectly.

  • erikingvoldsen

    I never understood why people hated this dungeon. I thought the puzzles were some of the most well thought out and ingenious designed since OoT’s Water Temple. This is one of the few temples that filled me with curiosity. It was a ruins, clearly, like the Snowpeak mansion. In the case of the Snowpeak mansion, they were just ruins that some Yeti stumbled into. But here…I was just always in wonder what happened. They are ruins, but are still inhabited. I admit, I scoffed at people who expected Skyward Sword to explain all the origins–but even I thought it would touch up on this subject. It’s a city in the sky, it’s hand delivered to SS on a silver platter and they explained nothing to us. But then again, this could easily be Skyloft…it was never really named. Makes me wonder what ever happened to the sky people.

    • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

      Which puzzles are you referring to? There really wasn’t much of any.

      Also I believe what Axl is referring to as the city not really being much of a City is that there is no signs that it was ever inhabited. There aren’t rooms that suggest the idea of a home, or kitchen, or a market street (save for the Oocca store on the outskirts oddly enough). I mean Hyrule Castle Town looks more like a city then City in the Sky does. It really takes more cues from a factory then a city… it’s got thick heavy duty walls and gratings, whirling fans and slow moving machinery.

      As for the Skyward Sword and City in the Sky connection, they probably are supposed to be the same thing, or connected in some way. Yet like all parts of Zelda mythology things never perfectly connect…. like why is the Temple of Time ruins in the Lost Woods, and not close to Hyrule Castle like OoT. Or is Jabun, actually Jabu Jabu or a distant cousin or something. Why do the Rito have Din’s Pearl, as opposed to Nayru’s which has the same emblem as their culture.

      They are all small inconsistencies we are just left to wonder how they precisely connect. A common trait with most legends.

      • erikingvoldsen

        No signs of it being inhabited? There’s a store, buildings, and Oocca everywhere. And naturally this won’t behave like a city–that would be boring. This is a dungeon-level. That’s like removing the NPCs from Castle Town in TP and then just having Link run to the south side where he fights a boss and then label it “dungeon”. It would be boring.

        And you were never stuck in the City of the Sky? Not once? And actually, Skyward Sword did bring up multiple Temple of Times and showed there the one in the forest (TP’s) was the one with the Master Sword. I liked that. But I am disapointed they completely failed to neglect the Oocca.

        • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

          It’s never been made clear if the Oocca were the original inhabitants. Or if they might have appeared differently in the past.

          It certainly doesn’t make sense that these small creatures need huge doors and large walkways… actually they shouldn’t need bridges across the sky in general since they can fly across.

          Also I never said that the dungeon has to “behave” like a city, but more so that it resemble a city. You know like how Snowpeak Ruins resembles a ruined mansion. A city can be over run with monsters and creatures… I’m simply saying City in the Sky, should’ve resembled and had features like a “city”. As opposed to looking simply like a factory.

          Also I was never stuck in City in the Sky. Lakebed Temple was more complex with multiple routes and paths to take.

          City in the sky holds you by the hand and guides you in the direction you have to go in order to complete it. It’s painfully laid out, you don’t have much of any choice in what direction you go in.

          Skyward Sword merely mentions that there have been multiple Temples of Time, doesn’t say how a temple gets to be there or what constitutes a Temple of Time. There’s still plenty of dependencies between the new Temple of Time at the end of Skyward Sword which is located in Faron Forest, then how that becomes the Temple of Time from Ocarina of Time, and then from there how the Temple of Time is removed from Hyrule Castle region back to the forest and Faron region in TP. It’s still all speculative.

          Just like how we aren’t sure if the Oocca are what became of the Skyloft people who remained in Skyloft, or if they came after the Hylians moved down to the surface.

  • The Groosinator

    This is in my opinion where TP starts to become… bad. The dungeons before it, while mostly easy, are pretty fun. But City in the Sky, Palace of Twilight, and Hyrule Castle are just the easiest, most tedious dungeons I’ve played through. I consider Argorok the easiest boss in the game, never once taking a heart of damage against him. The rest of this dungeon is just so tedious and easy. I tried to like it, but I don’t. The double hookshots were a cool, if underused, item, though.

  • npatoray24

    i dont share many of your complaints, overall i dont think this dungeon is even close to how bad you are making it out to be. i enjoy this dungeon every time i play the game, especially the double clawshots. Axle the way you rag on this dungeon with such anger, makes me think you had a terrible childhood memory of being trapped there or something haha idk my opinion is simply it does notdeserve all the criticism it has recieved, and i found it to be a solid dungeon

  • I WANT IT

    axle…….. i love everything you do, watch all of youre videos, read youre articles and youre comics….. but youre wrong. the city in the sky IS awesome. I simply cant explain it, but you are.

    • maxine parson

      i dont love axle because hes a little girly boy

      • joshcv11

        your retarded

      • Skull Kid

        Can you explain yourself by any chance? I, and maybe a few others want to know what makes you have the urge to say this. And a little nore to all of you others; yes he could be trolling, but he may just be stating his opinion so please be polite with your replies.

      • http://axlethebeast.com/ Axle the Beast

        Actually statistically, feminine features are considered very attractive on guys. =)

        • Guy

          hey…

          • http://axlethebeast.com/ Axle the Beast

            ‘sup?

          • Sandy

            Hi Axle… Single?

          • hyourinmaru

            i’ll agree with that. especially in anime. sephiroth, vincent, itachi, shishomaru, neji the ladies loooove their girly men…strange, i’d figure i would have more examples…ah well. so wasn’t he basically complimenting you XD?

        • hyourinmaru

          agreed, just look at anime. itachi, shishomaru, sephiroth, vicent, neji and many many more examples i can’t seem to think of atm. all have legions of rabid female fans. so an insult turned into a compliment….fail maxine.

  • abdul farhi

    axle is a little girly boy

    • joshcv11

      What makes you say that. you probably have no self asteem or something, that you just cant resist making a comment just to make yourself look cool

      • Skull Kid

        Can you be a little bit more nice? It’s his opinion, so there really isn’t anything you can do about that.

        • joshcv11

          What! he’s saying someone is girly for no reason at all.

        • EOTW

          We have a word for opinions that are clearly only posted to piss people off. It’s called trolling. The point is moot, however, seeing as it doesn’t seem to phase Axle.

        • o0o

          lol “it’s his opinion”. are you serious? that’s such a crappy excuse sometimes. he just flat out insulted axle.

          that’s like me saying that you’re a loser, you have no life, no friends, no future, and that i hope you die alone. but wait! it’s JUST my opinion, obviously, so you can’t be mad at me! too bad!

    • http://axlethebeast.com/ Axle the Beast

      Guess it’s official!

  • Paper Link

    Ahh this dungeon was a chore. The layout confuses me to this day. My personal favorite TP dungeon was always Arbiters Grounds anyway

  • http://twitter.com/m_graba Marcos Grabauskas

    Most of it does seem like a rant, it feels like you just hate it cause you fell a lot (and were having a bad day), cause you sure took your time ranting about falling…

    Anyway, City in The Sky is, along with Snowpeak Ruins, my favorite dungeon in TP. I think you should have mentioned what was definitely my favorite part of the game, which is the buildup, that awesome quest in order to actually reach the city in the sky. The dungeon itself makes sense to me, it feels like it was a city long ago but it was taken by a fearsome creature which then reigned there onwards, so it’s just the ruins and no population. Also, I think that it’s reasonable that the dungeon was a bit messy, and some parts were slowing you down. You’re an earthling, trying to prevail in a city in the sky. You can’t expect earthly logic to work there or a fast pacing like you were a sky being yourself. I can see how you hated the boss, but I found it hard because I was having a bad time with the hookshot timing. I also have a (healthy) little bit of a fear of heights, so it was kinda terrifying thinking about just hanging there, and the pressure to not miss the hookshooting…

    The only part I didn’t really like were the Oocca, cause you know, they’re kinda (a lot) ridiculous. Also, I was shocked when I first got there and realized the city itself was the dungeon (I thought they were separate things), but that wasn’t exactly bad.

    • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

      “that awesome quest in order to actually reach the city in the sky”

      Honestly the build up made the City in the Sky more of a disappointment. I don’t think that long sloggy quest did much to make City in the Sky more memorable either.

      To be fair the Hidden Village is actually a pretty engaging part of this, but it falls flat after you have to go to various locations and simply move a statue. It’s just a little flat and felt a bit like a filler-ish. Similar to the Triforce shard quest of Wind Waker.

      Basically what I am getting at though is you go through a lot of effort to power up the dominion rod and to reach the sky, only to be treated to what is probably the dullest dungeon ever. Even if you don’t fall (I personally didn’t fall more then once or twice I think on my first play through) you are still slowed down by the tedious obstacle course.

      Also I think what Axl means in regards to the design of the city is that, it’s that there is nothing in the city that looks like rooms or homes of people… of that ancient civilization that used to live there. No book shelves, or markets, or visual material that suggests it is a place where people once lived.

      I mean it’s clearly the Oocca’s home now, but before them ancient Hylians must have lived there, and the dungeon should’ve reflected that. It was an advanced ancient civilization, and you would think there would be hints of ornate life style, or even ancient statues of important people or ancient heroes. Yet there is nothing of the sort.

  • Ahalii

    I just disliked that, if you had to turn off the game at some point in the dungeon, you couldn’t use oocco to warp out so you could start in the same place. She would always meet you again at the place where you landed from the canon.

  • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

    I certainly hate this dungeon with a passion. The only other dungeon that comes close is the Palace of Twilight, but my hate for Palace of Twilight is for many of the reasons Axl hates City in the Sky…. which is expectations. Palace in the Twilight is a cool setting but with meager challenge offerings for what is a part of the final part of the game. Not to mention the build up to what was the previous antagonist in the game. Off that topic though.

    City in the Sky is terrible for all the reasons mentioned…. the slogging game play, the dull/annoying music (from the actual city background to the re-used and unfitting boss theme).

    It’s a city in the sky and there’s nothing fabulous about it. There was so many places Nintendo could’ve pulled influence from… for example Castle in the Sky by Studio Ghibli, Shifting advanced technology that kept the island afloat and visually was stunning while ancient. Just saying there was a lot of places they could’ve drawn influences from to make the trip at least enjoyable in some way.

    The dungeon is simple as well… weak enemies with no particular challenge. Most of it is literally point A to point B and it’s painfully pointed out (hey don’t go that way yet, lets destroy the bridge)…. and painfully executed. The path is clear but you can’t simply move quickly past it…. you have to walk slowly on narrow platforms, cling to edges, climb vines, put on your iron boots to not be blown away, float slowly down using Ooccaa, be pulled on the path by slow moving peahats on a rail path, and wait as a giant fan turns around so you can grab onto …. the next slow moving fan. The path is clear, the game is simply making the trek to the end as long as possible, and trying to pass it off as a puzzle.

    The City in the Sky had so much potential. When I originally played the dungeon I thought the spinner would be put to good use here. Sky rails I thought. Probably the biggest missed opportunity for a dungeon ever. Sure you could fall and have to redo it plenty of times…. but at least riding spinner rails in a speedy fashion through an ancient city would’ve been a more thrilling trip.

    There’s not much else I can say that’s already been said. All I know is slog fest is the best way to describe it.

  • http://vanilladice.deviantart.com/ Dice

    I always felt that the boss music was misunderstood is TP. I think it was more of that SHadow of the Colossus “you’re kicking a**! ” music, it’s repetitive, but links the fight sequences.

  • Lexi Z

    I would agree with what you said here. I was like…Where on earth am I? It seems like someone ran out of locational ideas…There were a few moments where I enjoyed clawshotting from one falling spot to another, but that ONE moment of action really didn’t make up for the thousands of tedious ones…
    I also just don’t like the Ooccas;)

  • Zero Wat

    I LOVED ARGOROK!… and Aeralfos. I personally loved the climbing with the clawshot, and I liked the Morpheel music. Also, I loved the way the second phase starts,(So epic!) and the way you gurt hiim is cool. I did hate the regular music though. I kind of liked some of the platforming, only with the double clawshots. I also liked the way this dungeon looked. I didn’t like some of the combat, loved the bosses though.

  • IMFWeirdo

    I loved how this dungeon was mostly outdoors and open-air, unlike others, which are usually confined inside a building. Think about it, almost every Zelda dungeon is 100% indoors. It feels kind of stifling sometimes. I hope they make more outdoorsy dungeons like this.

    • http://www.controlpaddesign.com/ TheMaverickk

      The Forest Temple of TP had out in he open air segments…. the Goron Mines have open area’s too where you are out on the walk ways and your being attacked by archers… Snowpeak Ruins has the roof tops and courtyard…. City in the Sky is out doors…. Twilight Palace has lots of open area’s where you are walking around outside the building…. and Hyrule Casle takes place in the courtyards for half the dungeon.

      There are actually a lot more dungeons exposed to the elements and outdoors then most people think.

      Even Wind Waker had parts where you go outside of the dungeons. Like scaling the side of Dragonroost Cavern…. Tower of the Gods had an outdoor bit as well. Majora’s Mask had Stone Tower Temple which in many ways is just as airy as City in the Sky.

      You’d be surprised by how many dungeons have open-air area’s. Although for the most part since dungeons are made of rooms they tend to be closed up for the most part.

  • Zachary Morris

    I really enjoyed City in the Sky! The huge rooms, the gliding, and the switching between indoor and outdoor areas were awesome! And the difficulty has hard but it was perfect! I love the back story behind it and the story that is built up during the play through. What other dungeon shows you the boss wrecking havoc throughout the dungeon? And speaking of Argorok: one of the most epic boss battles of the series! So much fun to play, both the boss and the ambience during the battle are great!

  • Ryty

    I agree. Personally, I hated how slow the pace was. I think I almost fell asleep while going through this dungeon. And it didn’t help that the game’s difficulty level is extremely low. Nintendo could have done a better job making this game.

  • Hoff123

    I actually liked this dungeon. I didn’t love it, but I certainly have memories from it :) . You get the awesome double clawshots(well, you had a single one before), and you get to fight an awesome dragon :) . And the music and those annoying ooccas gave it a pretty weird atmosphere lol.

  • MatadorBID

    I didn’t enjoy this dungeon very much, but I do think that climbing the final tower was one of the worst parts, not the best.

  • Mr. Nidoking

    I actually really liked this dungeon.

  • S. Mario

    From the other comments it appears that people are about evenly divided between liking and hating the City in the Sky. I enjoyed it myself. I have to disagree with Axle on the theme. The dungeon, to me, feels like an enormous abandoned ruin of a once great city, and the music reflects that abandoned ruin feel. Fallen pillars and caved in ceilings of once majestic buildings are seen everywhere and add to the ruined great city feel. I thought the theme was completely cohesive.

    Another reason I liked this dungeon is because of its unique puzzles. The City in the Sky is full of “navigational puzzles” that are not found anywhere else in the game, or even the series. These puzzles required the player to keep track of where he was in a 3D space in relation to the rest of the dungeon. I can see how people wouldn’t like this kind of puzzle though, since my brothers complain that they have a hard time thinking about those types of puzzles.

    I think I’ll also I’d add that I never had to put on the Iron Boots when crossing the main outside walkways. By walking somewhat at an angle into the wind, I could easily cross the walkways without any problems from the wind.

    I will agree that the fight with Argorok was somewhat underwhelming due to its pace being slower than expected for a dragon fight, but I still enjoyed that battle.

  • zozo

    City in the sky was my favourite dungeon in TP, i loved everything from it, the hard difficulty was fine for being the last dungeon, avoiding the wind currents and using the double clawshots was so much fun, also the architecture and the atmosphere were beautiful. It was also quite long, contrary to temple of time which was so short, easy and boring.

  • dungeon crawler

    I admit I agree with you on all the aspects of City in the Sky, except I liked the music. Other then that it drove me utterly insane too, because of the ruinous progression logic you mentioned.

  • Zeldamaster3000

    It was boring. That’s it. I fell a lot. My enjoyment was limited. Getting attacked by chickens would’ve been more fun.

  • SMOSHOHLIC!

    I Hate city in the sky! It is my worst nemesis!!

  • TheOathtoOrder

    damn, it’s not that bad Axle. The use of the double clawshot was fun. The boss was fun. Using the weird oocoos to fly was also fun. It’s not my favorite, but it’s not all bad.

  • TwilightSword

    This was my least favorite dungeon, yet favorite boss fight, in the game. I also enjoyed the quest to get to the dungeon.

  • Ilias

    I agree that the dungeon itself was confusing for something so straight-forward, but I think Argorok almost made up for it. I found it to be one of the more challenging fights in the game, and as it progressed it seemed like if I took a little too much time aiming my clawshots, I got torched. I enjoyed the theme, and I found the slow pace added tension to the moments when I couldn’t see Argorok but knew it was just behind me.

    The worst dungeon for me was probably the Palace of Twilight. I look forward to your review.

  • http://www.facebook.com/LuisDarkjedi Luis Alvarez

    I don’t hate the city in the sky, but is the worst of all the dungeons in Twilight princess

  • Amber Holm

    I agree with you Axl. I hate City in the Sky, too. The first time I went through it, it scared me. I have played through Twilight Princess three times, working on my fourth and I still hate the dungeon.

  • PalaeoJoe

    All I can say is that I liked this dungeon way better than Axle.

  • DMAN27

    ENTIRELY disagree. Felt this was one of the few dungeons in TP that was actually memorable (in a good way).

  • http://www.facebook.com/aine.harnettlennon Aine Dragon Harnett-Lennon

    I’m completely neutral on this to be honest. I liked it, but it wasn’t particularly special. The Hook- shoting from twisty thing o twisty thing got really annoying really quickly. Especially because there was only about a meter of mesh that you could actually reach before you spun around completely.
    The very definition of a ‘meh’ dungeon.
    And damn the ooca to hell. I NEVER used that thing to warp out and they are SOO annoying and unnecessary in my opinion.