Skyward Sword: The Demons, Sheikah, and Dark Tribe

Axle the BeastJanuary 27th, 2012 by Axle the Beast

Alright, by this point you probably know I’ve written a lot about the Dark Tribe. It’s kind of hard not to when they’re so incredibly cool, but I’ll admit it’s getting a little excessive. This article is the next logical step after the ones I’ve written before and probably the last one I’ll write for quite some time; Skyward Sword is out now, and I’ve had plenty of time to think about the storyline and lore and see how much it actually applies to my pre-release theories about how the game would relate to the Dark Tribe and the Sheikah, which I had thought used to be the same tribe.

Sad thing is, after playing Skyward Sword, nothing in particular immediately fit. It’s like every other Zelda game to come out since ever: Every expectation we had about plot connections just kinda didn’t happen. It really seemed like Nintendo was going to do differently with this game (and as I’ve discussed, the fact that they didn’t is one of my core disappointments with the game), but now, if anything, Skyward Sword has reaffirmed the fact that Nintendo will probably never address any of its backstories by giving them their own games. Everything will be left open as a legend, because after all, it’s The Legend of Zelda. I might even be willing to admit that’s a good thing.

That said, as always we can draw connections from the facts presented, even if those connections aren’t major and cannot be 100% proven. So allow me to go over Skyward Sword’s storyline and show you what I’ve found that connects — or may connect — with my personal Dark Tribe and Sheikah theories.

Well to start, clearly Skyward Sword does not establish any affiliation between the Dark Tribe and the Sheikah. Actually, the Sheikah are pretty much hardly ever discussed. The name itself only shows up at the end of the game after defeating the final boss, when Impa kindly confirmed what every Zelda fan already fricken’ knew:

As a member of the Sheikah, the goddess’s chosen guardians, I gladly welcome this duty. -Impa

This chick is clearly a master of beating around the bush. Anyway, Impa’s quote isn’t anything new. The only new piece of information it provides is a little history as to why the Sheikah serve the Royal Family of Hyrule. They are the chosen guardians of Hylia, who is Zelda, who clearly will start up the kingdom of Hyrule — or at least her descendants will — will her holy bloodline.

This doesn’t confirm nor disprove anything I’ve said about the Sheikah, really. My theories stated that I thought the Sheikah were going to be a splinter group of the Dark Tribe, but that they broke off and added the teardrop to the eye symbol (which I claimed was a symbol of the Dark Tribe) as they entered servitude to the Royal Family for their sins (and were probably lead by an actual Sheik, hence the name). Well… while this clearly is not the reason they came to serve the Royal Family specifically, their reasons for serving Hylia are still completely unknown and unconfirmed, so nothing has really changed, although as I will get into, their affiliations with the Dark Tribe may be far less possible.

Prior to Skyward Sword releasing, I said that the villain of the game will be the King of Darkness who rules the Dark Tribe, who will be Ghirahim’s master. The King of Darkness would wield the Trident and in some way his power or title would transfer to Ganondorf.

……Huh.

Well we didn’t get a “King of Darkness”, but we did get another “Demon King”; another person with the same title as Ganon (who is frequently identified by this or similar titles, especially in older games and Japanese translations). As I previously explained by going through Four Swords Adventures backstory, Ganon (at some point) inherits the Trident and using its power becomes the new King of Darkness. Well Skyward Sword has Demise fall, and literally curse Link and Zelda with the eventual emergence of Ganon. It doesn’t matter how you choose to interpret that curse. Whether you think Demise reincarnates as Ganondorf, just is Ganondorf without truly dying, or is simply a power Ganondorf inherits, it doesn’t matter. This change of hands of both Demise’s power and title fits perfectly with the King of Darkness storyline in Four Swords Adventures. I think there’s plenty to say that Demise truly is the King of Darkness that we knew before.

Something I didn’t cover too heavily in my original Dark Tribe article was the Japanese translations, but looking at them now, they’re… um, kind of important surprisingly. The original reference to the Dark Tribe comes from Agahnim in A Link to the Past, who references a “Tribe of Evil” in the English version. The Japanese term is “mazoku”, which usually means a demonic or evil race following a king. Hold on. A demonic race you say? While the actual phrasing used in Japan for the Dark Tribe in Four Swords Adventures specifically is a lot less specific than that, Ganon’s title of “The King of Darkness” in Japan is actually “Daimao”, or “great demon king”. So again, we have our Demon King Ganon, with his Demon Tribe. Even better is how consistent that term, mazoku, is used to apply to Ganon’s forces of evil. Agahnim uses it in A Link to the Past, it appears during the tale of the Seal War, and is also used by Ganondorf in The Wind Waker in reference to Link releasing his power by drawing the Master Sword in Hyrule Castle. Demise is the Demon King ruling his Demon Tribe, and later in time his successor, Ganon, inherits the same title and also rules a tribe of monsters using similar terms… Although I’ll admit I don’t know the Japanese phrasing used for the demons in Skyward Sword, I do think this is pretty telling. I didn’t cover the demonic aspects of the phrasing before because I thought they were irrelevant, but clearly they’re a lot more important than I previously thought.

Now if you read my old article, then you’re probably already screaming at your monitor about all the inconsistencies I’m still ignoring. Yes, I also discussed how the Dark Tribe of Four Swords Adventures, the Dark Interlopers of Twilight Princess, and the villains of Skyward Sword all must be the same, and there are now a number of holes in that theory. For one, Demise isn’t sealed within the Mirror of Twilight or Dark Mirror or anything resembling either. Regardless of this, there is a number of important features of the storyline in Skyward Sword which match up with the backstories of the Dark Tribe:

1. Demise and his Demons seek the Triforce. This is their goal. The Dark Interlopers sought the same prize. The Dark Tribe and the Demons mark the only times in the entire Zelda series that an entire group sought the Triforce, as opposed to just Ganon; no other villain has sought the Triforce throughout the entire series.

2. Twilight Princess’s backstory identifies that only three of the Light Spirits interfered with the Dark Interlopers. In Skyward Sword, exactly three Dragons, bearing the same names as three of the Light Spirits, help Link defeat the Demons. If Nintendo was not trying to reference the Light Spirits and specifically the backstory of the Dark Interlopers, why did they include exactly three and not also have Ordona, who was arguably especially important in Twilight Princess considering her affiliation to Link’s home?

3. Ghirahim still bears an incredible resemblance to the Twili. And despite being a sword and thus having no reason to be, he is clearly a master of sorcery, as was the Dark Tribe. Demise also seems to possess powerful magic.

But what of the Trident that the old King of Darkness wielded? What happened to that? Well remember how people thought Ghirahim would be like Fi because they shared the same jewel? Fi had her blue one, and Ghirahim had a red one? Well they were right. Ghirahim is Demise’s sword… and the Trident in Four Swords? It’s a black weapon with a fricken’ red jewel on it.

Anyway, clearly there are inconsistencies. There’s no mirror. Demise and his Demons are not discernibly sealed away (except for Demise, who sort of is, but within the Master Sword and not a mirror). Ghirahim disappears and his fate is left unclear. The eye insignia never shows up. Ghirahim never takes the shape of the Trident.

So no, it’s not a perfect connection. But I can’t ignore what’s still there. You might think I’m just sitting here trying to be right after doing all that theorizing, but I legitimately do still think there’s a connection, even after a period of complete doubt that it could be possible.

No Zelda game connects to another perfectly, and I’m becoming increasingly convinced than none ever will. We’re dealing with a series that doesn’t pride itself on deep storylines and thick history, but on cool ideas and fun gameplay. It’s a legend and it’s probably always going to be that way. Look at every plot element carried between more than one game of the series and you’ll see problems. This applies even (if not especially) to the now canonically-confirmed timeline order in Hyrule Historia. I’ve discussed that before as well.

As for how Hyrule Historia relates to my Dark Tribe theories, well that’s a bit of an odd case. Skyward Sword is the first game on the timeline, and much later, after the timeline split, Twilight Princess happens on the Child Timeline, followed by Four Swords Adventures. Putting Four Swords Adventures here doesn’t seem to have a lot of reasoning behind it. The only real logical sense I can think of in placing Four Swords Adventures here of all places is because of the thematic similarity with the story of the Dark Tribe. Actually it’s kinda interesting when you think about it like that, because every game that’s ever made any potential mention of the Dark Tribe aside from A Link to the Past is on the Child Timeline. Majora’s Mask with its “Ancient Tribe” that “sealed the mask in shadow forever”, Twilight Princess with its “Dark Interlopers” who sought the Triforce, and the “Dark Tribe” of Four Swords Adventures, who sought the Triforce under the order of their King of Darkness and were sealed away as their master’s legacy was passed on.

In that way, I think the “Skyward Sword -> Twilight Princess -> Four Swords Adventures” connection in the timeline works at least thematically, if not perfectly logically. Expecting anything else from Nintendo is frankly expecting too much (and I had to learn this the hard way).

And of course, it’s now pretty hard to draw a line connecting the Sheikah to the Demons, considering the Demons never used the eye symbol of the Dark Tribe and seem to be a hodgepodge of different monsters and species instead of Sheikah. The only character that even resembled the Sheikah was Ghirahim, who was a… sword. I don’t think connecting the Sheikah to them is impossible, but it’s certainly not clear-cut… Although the fact that the Demons were just a ton of different creatures and entities does somewhat support my original impression that the Dark Tribe was a collaboration of races as opposed to my later conclusion that they were purely the Sheikah race.

So what we’re really looking at here is another theory that can’t currently be proven and probably never will be. There are plenty of solid connections, but also plenty of inconsistencies. The connections still make sense to me and there’s enough for me personally for the theories to hold, but you might not see it that way. What seem like common Zelda inconsistencies between games to me might actually simply disprove the theory altogether. I can’t prove the connections any more than I could before.

Even if Skyward Sword depicted what we once knew as the Dark Tribe, the exact nature of that depiction is still unknown. Are the Demons the Dark Tribe itself? Did they splinter off from the Dark Tribe, or the tribe from them? Could the Dark Tribe’s attempt to seize the Triforce have been an action by survivors of Demise’s army? What role exactly do the Sheikah play in this history, if any at all? And what of the eye symbol and the Trident? There are lots of mysteries left. If we’re lucky, we might learn more about it from a later Zelda game. Still, I think we’re looking as some form of depiction of the Dark Tribe in Skyward Sword. After all, Demise and his Demons were in all probability the earliest enemies of the Zelda world, and that’s exactly what the Dark Tribe is supposed to be. What else might be revealed about them, if anything, I can only speculate.

Oh, and you know that whole theory about Fi being Nayru? Let’s just forget that ever happened, okay?

Author: Axle the Beast

Axle has been on Zelda Dungeon for several years and runs the site’s video mailbag, the Curiosity Shop, and also does other videos on the site’s YouTube channel regularly. He frequently writes articles and can also be found on Twitter, Facebook, deviantART, and his own personal YouTube channel.

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  • Troll

    First

  • Ollavotozzi

    Well its hard to forget the Fi theory, but i will try…
    maybe

  • Anonymous

    Nice article

    • Teh other guy

      See? this is why i like ZD and not ZU. ZD IS SO MUCH BETTA’!!!!!

      • Anonymous

        I do agree, ZD is better than ZU

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=598901105 Jesse McCarty

        Zelda Universe and Zelda Dungeon are both incredible websites.  Personally, I do believe ZD is better than Zelda Universe, but ZU is still an amazing website on its own.  We’re also both on great terms with each other!  What makes you think ZD is so much better though.  I’d like to hear your reasons.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jahchild101 Seth Taylor Moore

          I didn’t leave the comment, but I’ll chime in. Zelda Dungeon (and heck, I’ll throw in Zelda Informer) is on top of getting the news out quickly and consistently. Zelda Uniform does not report on nearly as many newsy-type items, and it is usually a couple of days behind. That being said, Zelda Universe has some top-quality theory articles, as well as a good number of contests. I know there are other sites out there besides these three, but ZI, ZD, and ZU together make up the best source for Legend of Zelda information.

          • KogamoSJS

            ZD=ZU>ZI

            That’s all I have to say…

          • VikzeLink

            ZI, ZD and ZU…. IT’S A TRIFORCE!!!!

          • Emma Mix

            lolz nice. 

  • Anonymous

    Axle, you said followed by FOUND Swords Adventures towards the end of your article instead of followed by FOUR Swords Adventures.

    • Anonymous

      HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY- Oh you’re right. Thanks. ^_^;

      • Ruby

        Were IS the Four Swords walkthrough anyway? 

        • Ptlegoman

          yeah i need that walk through how do u get the other symbols on the name plate like the moon

        • awsomeMrlink

          The walkthrough is coming soon…..

      • Emma Mix

        LOL. By the way, very interesting theory. This is the first one of your articles I’ve read, but it surely won’t be the last! :)

  • Anonymous

    I have a theory that Ghirahim teleported away, sensing his master’s defeat, at the end of skyward sword, rather than disappearing like the rest of the bosses. We might see more of him… like if he turned into a dark trident, maybe?

  • Mashin1131

    maybe hylia is farore, demise is din, and Fi is nayru lawlz

    • You-Know-Who

      That has been proven as wrong.

    • JuicieJ

      (sarcasm) Yes, let’s all bash Axle about that theory of his. (Jerk.)

    • Melanie Hannon

      That’s definitely possible. IF Demise got a sex change, Hylia instead of becoming the three goddesses became one, and Fi came out of the sword (after she sealed herself in) and became a goddess. (Everything I just said is rubbish and untrue to prove a point.)

  • Dzzy123

    I think that there is more than one Dark Tribe.  As you said, maybe the remnants of Demise’s army joined forces once again and renamed themselves.  Maybe to the Dark Interlopers.  They mad a new plan, found a new king (Not Ganon.  Maybe Zant’s ancestor?  Very unlikely, but a fan can dream), and went for the Triforce once again.  This time, Link didn’t defeat them, it was the 3 main Light Spirits who banished them to the Twilight realm which made them evolve into the Twili.

    Maybe Ganon’s Trident has its own version of Ghirahim residing in it.  If Demise can reincarnate, who says Ghirahim can’t?

    And has anyone ever thought that maybe Ordona is the Light Spirit equivalent to Hylia?  Hylia was important, but she’s not as important and not on the same pedestal as the 3 Golden Goddesses.  Maybe Ordona is kinda the same in a sense.

    This article has made me want a sequel to Twilight Princess.  The Twili and Interlopers/Dark/Demon tribes haven’t been explained enough.

    Nice article!

    • http://www.facebook.com/jahchild101 Seth Taylor Moore

      The Mirror of Twilight was destroyed in the end of Twilight Princess. It’s always possible that another entry exists, but it appears from that ending that there is no other way into the Twilight Realm.

      • Dzzy123

        There’s always more than one way to do something in Zelda.

    • Emma Mix

      Right. When you think about it, you can’t fight Demise until you kill Ghirahim, and you can’t fight Ganon (in TP) until you kill Zant. I think Zant is Ganon’s weapon and also an incarnation of Ghirahim. They both have diamonds shapes, and they both have a flowy thing… (Ghirahim’s cloak and Zant’s… sweater? lol)

  • 3DS Guy

    Heres a theory:
    “Ghirahim never takes the shape of the Trident.”
    Maybe, like Fi, his sword form changes, but over time instead of by sacred flames. By the time Ganon comes to form, Ghirahim has already changed into the Trident. They still have the same jewel in the center. Again, only a theory. Then again, almost anything is a theory at this point.

  • fused_shadows

    You put out some great theories there. I am as puzzled as you are about the existence of the Dark tribe. We’ll just have to wait for a future zelda game to explain!

  • Devoid

    I really wish I could post a response article to this… I know the answers, or at least have answers that are pefectly viable, not proven of course

    After Demise was sealed in the temple of Hylia, his army went into hiding, in termina. Ghirahim, being Demise’s sword and servant, sought to ressurect him. Demise’s army stayed behind. It wasn’t until, just before, ocarina of time did the Dark Tribe return from termina and spark the “Hyrule unification war”. Just before they got their hands on the Triforce, the three dragons sealed them in the mirror of twilight, eventually turning them into the Twili.

    After Ordona was founded inside the lost woods the goddesses saw the need of a 4th light spirit, ordona. The 3 dragons were turned into their respective light spirits to guard the 3 peices of the Dark Tribe’s major power source, the Fused Shadow.

    Ghirahim is indeed the trident, his weapon form changed over several eons.

    You guys also need to accept the fact that things can happen merely for the cause of the Goddesses seeing the nessecity for them to happen.

    • Jono

      Now THAT’S a cool theory. assuming, of course, that termina is a neighboring land.

      • Devoid

        Termina is not a neighboring land, though. Termina is another universe, who’s doorway (entry and exit) is built into the lost woods.

        • Anonymous

          That’s not at all proven. Though some “coincedinces” (I opaligize for murdering that word, and misspelled opaligize as well. My brain is fried today.) like the same (but different) characters. But where did you get the idea the entrance is in lost woods? The Termina Woods look completely different.

          • Devoid

            OOT Link is traveling through the Lost woods when he is attacked by skull kid, and the fairies. Skull kis takes Link’s horse and ocarina. In attempts to catch him, link falls into the entrance to Termina, which leads him through to the clock tower.

          • Emma Mix

            Yeah, but how come in OOT we never see a shortcut to Termina like the shortcuts to Death Mountain and the Zora River?

          • Maddy Cunningham

            In Oot they warn you not to go in the Lost Woods without a fairy because you’ll “get lost”. Maybe Navi was protecting Link from even nastier things than Wolfos  :)

          • Emma Mix

            Oh, that’s right. Forgot about that little warning. I never pay attention to warnings anyways. Hehe…

          • Devoid

            there are none. The lost woods is the only entryway

          • TheEdge95

            You’re right, when kids got lost in the Lost Woods, they turned into skull kids also and they were supposed to trick people and i think curse them also, so maybe MM didn’t even happen or as you said, Link got lost into Termina due to lacking a fairy

        • Emma Mix

          Man, I haven’t played that game in so long I can barely remember the storyline. Last time I played it I was 6 years old…

        • Emma Mix

          It’s a parallel dimension. :P

          • Devoid

            that’s actually viable

  • bob

    I think that Oradona, the light spirit, is actually Levias. You all think that Oradana was left out, but if you look at it like this you see that it actualy makes sense this way. This way you see how Levias is a form of the dragon(guardian) of the sky, and Skyloft is your hometown like in TP. Each area of land now fits in, (don’t forget that there are FOUR parts of the song of hero) so everything maker sense. 

    • Devoid

      It couldn’t be. first off, each light spirit kept it’s name from before. and Second: Levias is the wind fish

      If you read my post (directly below this one) it explains exactly where ordona came from

      • VikzeLink

        He isn’t proven to be the wind fish… It’s just a theory

      • derpaderp

        I think Levias is the Wind Fish and the Ocean King but I could just be retarded.

        • Devoid

          You’re not retarded. I can see that being a viable possibility. If you look above your post, I kinda peice such together myself.

      • The Pizzaman

        There’s a lot of theories about the wind fish, and all of them can be disproven.

        Jabu Jabu
        Levias
        Ocean King

        All of them fit, all of them don’t fit. The wind fish is a very complicated subject.

        • Devoid

          I feel that Levias would be more likely than Jabu Jabu or The Ocean King because is major element (like the others-water, fire, and thunder) is wind (or the sky). He is inside the ominous thunderhead cloud which has several tornadoes inside and around it. Not to mention, he raises out of the clouds after you enter the thunderhead

          I always saw Jabu Jabu as a giant whale that the Zora had come across,randomly, and they just decided that he would be their “token” fish, or, in a sense, diety for their tribe.

          As for the issue with The Ocean King… I unfortunately haven’t played Phantom hourglass. Perhaps The Ocean King is the same as Levias and The Wind Fish, just a different timeline has changed him.

          Fanfiction possibility: Maybe Levias, still being in the sky and seeing what came of Hyrule after The Wind Waker, confered with the Goddesses to create a main central island to give the, previously named, Hylians a pinpointed place to live. It’s possible.

          I have played a little bit of Phantom Hourglass, I played up till the first (in game) encounter with the Ghost Ship.

          • Emma Mix

            Yeah, but if Levias was still in the sky, why don’t we see him flying around the City-In-The-Sky in TP? 

          • Devoid

            Simple. You never see him… perhaps he’s still in the clouds

        • Emma Mix

          When you think about it, in TP, the Ordon Light Spirit gives Link the clothes, and we know that the SS Link MUST have died up in the sky somewhere, and Levias must have guarded the tunic or whatever it’s called because it had Link’s power in it. But when he became a spirit down in Ordon, he knew that the new link was the new hero, so he gave the tunic to him. Makes perfect sense in my opinion, but let me know what you think?

          • Devoid

            Ordona does not give Link the Hero’s clothes. It’s Faron who gives Link his garb after freeing the surrounding land of the Twilight. If you don’t believe me, play TP again.

          • Emma Mix

            OMIGAWSH So sorry! Wahwahwah can’t believe I made such a huge mistake! Okay okay now I have to play it again and re-study lolz… I am so sorry for making that mistake.

          • Emma Mix

            OMIGAWSH So sorry! Wahwahwah can’t believe I made such a huge mistake! Okay okay now I have to play it again and re-study lolz… I am so sorry for making that mistake.

      • bob

        Maybe Levias and the dragons sacraficed there power to seal the dark tribe, which transformed them into the light spirits. BTW how do you know that? It’s the same thing asking how the dragons turned into light spirits (If they did) if Levias did. Levias is basiclly the “dragon” of the sky, only in a different form to fit his location

        • Devoid

          Good point in the first section but still we would’ve kept his name

          They’re all different forms but Levias would’ve, most likely, stayed in the sky. And, again, he would’ve kept his name, the information doesn’t add up if you believe that Levias is Ordona

          And, just to assume that Levias is The Light Spirit Ordona because of the Relation between Skyloft and the town of Ordona, both being Link’s hometowns, is incredibly bull-headed!

          • Emma Mix

            Yes, but also when you think about it…

            1. In SS, Link saves Levias from a dark enemy that has control over him.

            2. In TP, Link saves The Light Spirit Ordona (Levias XD) from a dark enemy trying to take control of him.

            Here’s my theory…

            Now that the surface was safe, Levias sent the humans back and went to be their guardian. When the SS Link died, he kept his clothes to pass on to the next Link.

            Watchu think?

          • Emma Mix

            Yes, but also when you think about it…

            1. In SS, Link saves Levias from a dark enemy that has control over him.

            2. In TP, Link saves The Light Spirit Ordona (Levias XD) from a dark enemy trying to take control of him.

            Here’s my theory…

            Now that the surface was safe, Levias sent the humans back and went to be their guardian. When the SS Link died, he kept his clothes to pass on to the next Link.

            Watchu think?

      • Emma Mix

        Yeah, but how come in TP Levias isn’t in the city in the sky? BECAUSE HE’S NOW IN ORDON.

        • Devoid

          Simple. You never see him… perhaps he’s still in the clouds

          And I reitterate- He would’ve kept his name like the other dragons

          • Emma Mix

            Nice point. 

            However… Is there possibly some way that he could have “forgotten” his name? There are a lot of incidences like that in Egyptian Mythology and perhaps LOZ took from there. But yes, good point- perhaps I’m just ramblind XD

          • Emma Mix

            *rambling

    • Melanie Hannon

      LEVIAS IS JABU JABU. Just think about it, and picture them both in your head. :D it’ll come to you.

  • Mseevers95

    What if Hylians bred with the bokoblins.

    Alright now that you’re done vomiting let me try and explain. If a group of hylians bred with the Bokoblins they could potentially produce a “dark Tribe” that is an outcast from both races. I don’t have a lot to support this but it’s just an idea

    • http://twitter.com/bmitch123 Ben

      Just like Link COULD “bred” with a plant. Seriously? Why doesn’t zelda get together with the kings cat too right. Really? There are lots of idea’s dude. But that is NOT possible. No. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/jahchild101 Seth Taylor Moore

        The Maku Tree certainly thought she and Link would have some beautiful babies together.

      • VikzeLink

        FYI, Bokoblins aren’t plants, they are the normal-sized moblins from WW…. You thought he meant Bokobabas right?

        • Emma Mix

          You mean DEKU babas? LOL we are all so confused…

          • Melanie Hannon

            They’re Bokobabas in WW.

          • Emma Mix

            Oh, that’s right. Sorry! :(

    • Triforce43

      What if the sheikah didn’t come from the dark tribe? What if the dark tribe came from them?  
      There is a huge time gap for a few sheikah to go bad and form a new group, long before Ocarina of time. Clearly the sheikah have impressive magical abilities, and they also know the legends of the triforce…  give it a few hundred years and at least one of them is going to give into temptations.
      Form a group of like minded individuals, and make their move. 
      To me this seems to be able to fit into the timeline as well, if that still matters…

      • Emma Mix

        Sounds logical.

    • knows-way-to-much-random-info

      actually if you think about it, in WW the rich girl has a moblin/bokoblin (get those confused all the time) boyfriend.  It’s possible that somehow humans and pig-demon-things could create life, though the offspring would probably be sterile like mules and ligers.

      • Emma Mix

        Ew. But that IS possible…

  • http://twitter.com/bmitch123 Ben

    Yeah! Now there was a new release that should be your next project. I mean the game isn’t that hard and if you have even part of a walkthrough for wand of Gamelone you should have that :P

  • A_LINK_IN_TIME

    “This chick is clearly a master of beating around the bush.”
    Laughed so hard!

    Great article, Axle!

    And excellent image once again!  You use the best ones on the whole site! 

  • You-Know-Who

    I’m still going with the theory that Demise’s soul possessed Ganondorf instead of an reincarnation, simply because that opens a perfect game: Ganondorf is actually good and helps Link fight the Demon Tribe when they come after the Triforce.

    • Emma Mix

      That would be a very interesting twist in the storyline, but with Ganon being bad in SOOO many of the games, I wonder what many of the other fans would think. My guess is that some of the creators have considered that but don’t want to take the risk…

    • TheEdge95

      That could really be placed next to TP as Ganon is again sealed with the sage’s sword so it could even bring a new Ganon-free Ganondorf to help them, maybe even bring back Demise himself

      • Emma Mix

        Sounds good but it could be risky to do such a major change. I think that Demise’s spirit possesed Ganon (as You-Know-Who) said, but maybe it’s kind of like (pardon my example) Spider Man 3 where it FEEDS off of negative power. Because, we all have flaws. So perhaps for example, Dark Link existed because Link was getting close to the power of Ganon/Demise anyways yeah good idea, but is it really worth it, I dunno…

  • Anonymous

    I have been waiting for this article ever since I realized that Skyward sword didn’t have anything relating to the dark tribe in the story. I was sure that you would be upset with the dark tribe being completely left out, and that Ghirahims past was not elaborated on, or what he was exactly.

    • Heriod77777

      You call ” Ghirahim Demon Lord” at the bottom screen not enough for you?

      • Anonymous

        Yes, I know he’s a demon, but they don’t explain where he came from, why he works for Demise, and how the hell he turns into a sword.

    • Emma Mix

      Ghirahim is kind of like a “Shadow-Fi” lol. Their game design is very similar so you can tell that they’re of the same being, as we later find out, they’re both swords. 

      Fanfiction Idea:
           Maybe Ghirahim and Fi had a romance like a bazillion years ago!!!



      XD jk guys hahhahhahha

  • Anonymous

    It’s funny Axle, I completely forgot about your Fi=Nayru theory, but you totally just reminded me.

    • http://www.zeldadungeon.net/ Greenthunder01

      Same here!

      • Tyoff

        Me too!!

        • LegendaryPrincess

          Yeah, seriously, if you want people to forget about it, DON’T BRING IT UP!

  • http://www.facebook.com/jahchild101 Seth Taylor Moore

    I love this! I have been thinking the same thing. If you care, I have embellished the idea a little further.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Demise rose up to steal the Triforce. Hylia mustered the Sheikah to help her defend it, but a large number of them defected and joined Demise, becoming the Demon Tribe.

    The Demon Tribe followed Demise to obtain the Triforce. They were overwhelming Hylia and the races. The Gods called on the Light Spirits (maybe the same entities as the dragons, maybe not) to defeat the Demons. They sealed most of them away in the Mirror of Twilight, but a few (Demise, Ghirahim, and Batreaux [for the lolz]) escaped.

    During the conflict and before the Demons were sealed, a fraction of them sought peace. They entered into exile in the desert and became the Zuna tribe.

    Hylia sent the Humans into the sky with the Triforce. Batreaux went with them because he was not allowed to rejoin the Sheikah, but he showed true repentance and Hylia granted him permission to live among the Humans. Then she fought back Demise with the Goddess Sword. Seeing that Demise was losing, Ghirahim used his magic to infuse his soul into an ultimate sword which was more powerful than the Goddess Sword. Demise began to turn the tide in his favor, so Hylia initiated her plan to become Human to use the Triforce herself. She sealed Demise, and Ghirahim went into hiding to protect himself until he could revive his master.

    After Skyward Sword, the Ghirahim/Evil Master Sword is lost, but it is recovered by the Zuna. Its power severely drained, they take its core and transform it into the Trident. Also, before Demise was completely defeated, he imparted a little bit of his power into the weapon so that future wielders would be infused with his spirit. The Zuna took this new Trident and hid it in their pyramid temple.

    Now I will always maintain that Four Swords Adventures comes before Ocarina of Time, but really it doesn’t matter all too much for this version of the story. In any case, Ganondorf learns of this weapon and seeks to use it to capture the Triforce, so he breaks into the temple and steals it, becoming infused with the spirit of the Demon King.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 

    That is the very condensed version of my theory. Take it or leave it, but it provides a few more solid connections to what Axle already proposed. It explains the connection between the Demon Tribe and the Sheikah and why the Demon Tribe was sealed but Ghirahim, Demise, and Batreaux were not. I listed Batreaux in all of this, not because I like him that much, but because he is the only other Demon in Skyward Sword and is the same color as Ghirahim. It appears that he was from the same tribe but changed his ways.

    • Icarus707

      I like it…

      A lot.

    • Emma Mix

      Amazing conclusion. I love it. I can tell that you really know what your talking about. I don’t really know about any of the games before OOT, but I so look forward to playing them. I’ve been playing Legend of Zelda since I was 3 YEARS OLD! I guess when you play it as a kid, it sticks with you throughout life! :)

  • derpaderp

    well Fi being Nayru, i don’t even remember that. however, i have a theory that Navi is Fi. Fi is the spirit of the Master Sword and remember how at the end of Skyward Sword she says that she hopes to see Link in a new life? well she does, that’s why when Navi returns to the Temple of Time at the end of Ocarina, she’s not just returning to the temple. she’s returning to the Master Sword to rest once again, just like Fi did in Skyward Sword. poor Hero of Time Link doesn’t know that he’ll never be able to find her again if he looked forever.

    also, remember the Link to the Past manga where the Master Sword speaks to Link? yeah…

    • Dragon Ball Zelda

      Navi is alive. She’s a fairy. She has no affiliation with the Master Sword. She had only heard of it.

      • derpaderp

        I think Navi is Fi in a new life and that the spirit of the Master Swords manifests differently for each hero. If it’s a new life then even the spirit might not know about the Master Sword, especially if Navi was born of natural means. She just had to return to the sword in the end. Also OoT Link would’ve been most receptive to his fairy that he finally got. So it was necessary that the spirit take the form of a fairy. It hasn’t really been necessary for the spirit to take any other forms with any other Links. Also Navi has a voice instead of just dings. This doesn’t contribute to the theory lol it’s just something to think about.

        • Emma Mix

          Or perhaps… oh wait never mind, what a stupid idea I just had. Dumb, dumb, dumb…

    • Emma Mix

      OMG that is brilliant! I never would’ve thought of that. 

  • JcLee

    Axel, where would you place the Interloper War before or after Skyward Sword?

    The thing is, the backstory intro of Skyward Sword is so comptely compatible with the tale of the Interlopers told in Twilight Princess, it is hard to believe they are different things. On the surface it appears to almost certainly appear to be the same thing. However, this is no mention of the mirror and it is said that Hylia sealed them away, not the light spirits. *But it is egregious in that the intro to Skyward Sword references a group of evil, but they are NEVER referenced or seen again, we only see Demise and Ghirahim.*

    One thing you did not mention about Hyrule Historia is that it lists “Era of Chaos” and “Sacred Realm is Sealed” placed inbetween Skyward Sword and Minish Cap. It is unclear what this is, but it could be the Interloper War. The ending of Skyward Sword suggests that not very many humans know about the Triforce… a precedent of the Interloper War told in Twilight Princess is not many know about it, then knowledge spreads, and battle ensues.

    Interesting…

    • Devoid

      Very good point there, that could very well be the interloper war. Cudos, my friend.

      I think that, if that is indeed true, that some of them escaped to termina. Then, some hundreds, perhaps thousands, of years later, they return and spark the “Hyrule Unification war”. If you’ve played Minish Cap then you’ll see that, just before the Hyrule Unification War, all of the races lived quite harmoniously. This isn’t confirmed perfectly but hinted at throughout OOT, the Hyrule Unification War was a struggle between the many races of Hyrule for the entirety of the land and is only resolved when the King of Hyrule steps in and designates each race to their respective areas.

      Of course, both of ours can’t be right, seeing how I believe it is after the Hyrule Unification War that they are sealed into the the mirror of twilight. The only thing that can confirm either of our theories is Nintendo, so who’s to say?

  • Dragon Ball Zelda

    Actually Axel, several games have perfect connections; LoZ connects perfectly to Zelda 2, MC connects to FS, OOT to MM, WW to PH, and PH  to ST.

    • Ojoma-blue

      yeah but those were direct sequels/prequels, not like Minish cap have perfect connections with Skyward Sword.

  • Walter Bomba

    Fi as Nayru aha, I love speculation, seeing what actually happens and what doesn’t, great article again dude.  :P

  • guest

    I like to think that Demise’s sword is the evil version of the Master Sword. They both look a like, except that Demise’s sword has sharp edges out of it. Think of it as the blade of Link’s bane!

    • Pesky Octorok

      Ya i believe that Demise created his sword and Girahim to mock the goddess’ creation of the master sword and Fi. It kind of reminds me of Melkor/Morgoth who creates orcs as his own version of elves (who are Eru’s first non-divine children). (For anyone who has no idea what I’m talking about, I am referring to Tolkien’s mythology.)

  • The Pizzaman

    So here’s what I think happened with the dark tribe/Twili.

    So all of the Interlopers, being lead by Demise, attack Hyrule and try to take the Triforce. The three light spirits seal the tribe in the mirror of twilight, while THEIR LEADER, Demise, is sealed away by Hylia herself, into a pit in the Sealed Grounds. That’s why Demise isn’t sealed in a mirror, because he was sealed by a different person. I always wondered what happened to Demise’s followers, because surely they weren’t ALL just Bokoblins. There had to be actually Ghirahim level bad guys with them. Actually, I think that MOST of the demons were Ghiry-level baddies.

    So with all of the demon trible sealed in a Twilight mirror, and Demise sealed in the ground, Ghirahim goes to ressurect Demise. Since he was the sword, he was able to escape. That’s how Demise and the Twili fit together. As for four swords Adventures….I’ve never played it. But I’m going to take this guys word for it.

    Oh, and Agahnim IS a Sheikah. He’s just a rebel.

  • Link fan

    what if demise was a god  and he transformed into a monster to use the triforse

    • Melanie Hannon

      There is only record of the goddess Hylia, and the three after her: Din, Nayru, and Farore. Never is there any reference to any male deity in any of the games (save Fierce Deity Link, but he’s not really a god)

      • Pesky Octorok

        There are references to the gods in general so it is kind of implied that there may be a pantheon of gods with Din, Nayru and Farore being the creation gods 

        • Emma Mix

          Ah no don’t say pantheon *whimper*- Had a traumatic experience urrghh…

  • JuicieJ

    I don’t think there’s any question that the tribe Demise lead is the Dark Tribe/”dark interlopers. It’s just way too blatantly obvious.

    Oh, and nice reference back to the Fi = Nayru thing. Haha, I remember rebutting that in an article, although, looking back, my arguments weren’t quite in tune with your theory, but I still remember thinking it wasn’t all that logical. I wasn’t exactly correct about what would happen with Fi myself — I thought she’d morph with the Goddess Sword before the final fight to make it the Master Sword — but I was still right all along (since 2010) about her design being based off of the Master Sword.

  • Mike

    Ghirahim disappears and his fate is left unclear. The eye insignia never shows up. Ghirahim never takes the shape of the Trident.
    Fi says every time Demise shows up he looks different for everyone. So…maybe the weapon does too?

    • thelinkmaster001

      LIAR!!! the eye symbol turns up on impa’s chest and back, in the respected times

      • Emma Mix

        When?!

  • Kamakana

    If Ganon is the reincarnation of Demise, then my theory is that Zant is the reincarnation of Ghirahim. After all:

    Ganon is the dark king and is Demise’s reincarnation…
    Zant is a Twili who betrayed his race and serves Ganon just like Ghirahim served Demise…

    Just a thought.

    • Emma Mix

      This comment above was made by me before I signed in. Oops!

      • Vertigo

        hold on so your kamakana?wow i get confused easy.anyways i agree with the idea.

        • Emma Mix

          oh yeah im kamakana lol sorry

    • Vertigo

      …I have to agree with that.Seriously.I kiiinda have the same idea as you Kamakana,but mine’s kinda like a Zant=Ghirahim,Ganon=Demise.Odd,huh?Who knows,maybe those two are the same frickin’ person.

      • Emma Mix

        Yeah, btw the comment that you replied to was made by me before I got an official account, so…

        Anyways, yeah it really makes sense to me. BTW where’d you get your username from it’s very interesting…

    • Anonymous

      But… but… how could a villain as awesome as Ghirahim turn into a villain as lame and pathetic as Zant?!? If this theory were true, I’d be sad.

      • Emma Mix

        Perhaps in his life as Ghirahim, he learned to be humble? There are spiritual theories that what you learn in this life is carried on to the next, and maybe Nintendo used that theory?

        • Anonymous

          I was just referring to personality and character development. Ghirahim is WAY more awesome than Zant.

          I like that concept of reincarnation you mention, but the problem is, I think Ghirahim is way more “humble” or at least sophisticated and, for lack of a better term, honorable than Zant. Major regression there if that’s the case lol. Zant was a very creepy, even compelling villain until you realized what a childish, pathetic weirdo he was, and that he was only as powerful as he was and his actions as bad@$$ as they were because he was doing Ganondorf’s bidding. I was majorly disappointed by Zant. TP is awesome, but Zant is a stain in it lol.

          Ghirahim, on the other hand, is one of my all-time favorite Zelda villains. Awesome character. I really hope to see him specifically return in future Zelda titles.

          • Emma Mix

            I do have to agree with you that Ghirahim is way “better” than Zant. 

            However…

            I think a lot of the time Ghirahim wasted his time fighting (or talking to) Link when he should have gone straight for Zelda. Perhaps humility isn’t the word I’m looking for. Maybe… time-effeciency? 

          • Emma Mix

            I was actually sad when Ghirahim died XD XD XD

      • TheEdge95

        How about the Majora’s Mask? Remember how it turned the skull kid into a mischievous dude? and how the final boss behaved, it was all dumb, rather pathetic, jumping around mocking of you like Zant’s battle, it was more of a game than a fight. It is supposed the Dark Tribe, Interlopers or twilli are related to the dark beings who created the MM, most likely to be the Interlopers

  • Emma Mix

    Also, where the heck do the Oocoos come in?!

    • Queen of Faerie

      Oocoos might be evolved from Loftwings. makes a bit of sense.

      • Emma Mix

        Yeah, except that they don’t look ANYTHING alike…

        • Desert

          well neither do penguins look much like tyrannosaurus rex. your point?

          • Emma Mix

            I don’t like your tone of voice, young man… or woman… :P  

            My point IS:

            Scientifically, there is no way an animal could evolve that greatly even in millions of billions of years. And even if it did, animals evolve larger or greater. A loftwing couldn’t evolve to have a SMALLER beak and SHORTER wings.

          • Emma Mix

            Oh and also, loftwings can’t go into the surface, so if Oocoos were their evolved forms neither would they. But Oocoo is in the surface all the time.

          • Melanie Hannon

            Oocca is only on the surface because she was separated from the rest of the Ooccoo in the sky. Don’t you remember Oocca telling Link she needed him to get back into the sky?

          • Emma Mix

            Well yeah, that’s what I mean. Oocca, got into the surface by accident, but the Loftwings wouldn’t be able to get there even if they WANTED to, let alone by “mistake”, proving that the Oocoos are not evolved from Loftwings…

            Unless the Loftwings bred with the humans… 

            *blech* 

            Forget that idea.

          • Guest

            Have you even seen the ending cut scene?  Groose’s Loftwing is ON THE GROUND!

          • Emma Mix

            You’re right, sorry!

          • Alwyn

            Animals can evolve into smaller beings. Haven’t you heard of insular dwarfism? Populations of animals slowly shrinking over many years happens all of the time. 

            No idea where you got the idea that things only evolve into large creatures, but it’s a very wrong assumption.

          • Emma Mix

            Not literally LARGE, but like, more advanced. 

            Plus, also, it would take millions of years to evolve THAT dramatically, much more than the time span between SS and TP…

          • Legend of Link

            This is just off topic, is’t it?

            PS.
            My beautiful loftwing can never evolve Into that Oocoo crap.

          • Emma Mix

            lol

            Yes, through multiple side comments, replies and argumental theories, we are talking about… crud. Hahaha,

          • Emma Mix

            My point exactly- penguins aren’t evolved of the t-rex.

  • stickmonkey

    hey guess what…………………………LINK wears a tunic

  • King Hathon

    Personally, I think that the Ganons we see in tloz lttp and even fsa are different from the ganondorf in oot and so on. These Ganons have the trident and the trident is most likely girahim (despite the shape, he went from human to epic sword, I think he can turn into a trident) hence I put all the games on the “third timeline” between ss an oot. In what order doesn’t matter. (and I’m not considering the hyrule historia timeline. Nintendo can and will go back on it.) I think ganonDORF was just a gerudo king who wanted the triforce in order to help his people an through his life he somehow obtained the “anger of demise” thus giving him his pig form. (I think somehow the triforce of power was connected to demise but I could be wrong)

  • Anonymous

    Honestly, I hope for a game that connects the war that eventually leads to Hyrule’s kingdom being established and the Twili’s banishment together. There could easily be a role for Link in the war between the servants of light and the interlopers that leads to them being cast to the Twilight realm. 

    • Emma Mix

      We need just ONE game where Link is defeated!!! (not where he dies though) 

      This will create controversy, yes I know… But it will spark interest for the next game. G2 change it up a bit!

  • Roth

    Got the time to finish SS, so now I can stop avoiding all related articles (finally!).

    It was disappointing how the game ended to me, as the expectation of how everything fit together was an exhilarating part of playing through the game… and unfortunately, I’m not sure it really wrapped itself up even apart from the rest of the series. Not only does Demise’s curse unhinge the nature and history of Ganondorf a bit, but the Triforce got batted around in such ways as to make its existence confusing.

    A gift to make mankind akin to the gods, but only to one chosen to wield it against somebody else who wants it, and the rest of the time it’s just stowed away so such fights don’t happen? I could chalk that up to stupid human misunderstanding, except the divine forces of the saga (in this case, Hylia; relation to the “old gods,” please?) were more actively involved than in any previous game. Why didn’t Hylia use it once she was mortal? She turns around and tells Link it’s his to claim, leaving her descent to mortality pointless unless it was the only way she could survive after her injuries, and she needed to power up the Master Sword for the hero or buy him time holding the seal. … …Why? The scene where Zelda explains everything was incredible until she told him to find the Triforce, at which point the game’s plot fibers gave a little shake; and they vibrated under the tension of my wrinkled brow until they snapped and/or tangled, I’m not sure which, at the finale of what had been the most enthralling Zelda experience in ages.

    Anyways, I think it was a great game that tripped over itself trying to conclude one story while opening the gate to the rest of the saga. As a prequel, it’s problematic; as a Zelda game, it holds its own gallantly until it submits to the existence of the story as we’ve had it. Not only are no clear connections made: there’s debris making them hard to establish at all. Truly disappointing for such a fantastic game to falter so.

  • http://www.wix.com/stenaven/stenavenindustries Stenaven

    DUDE… You are really good with all this Zelda know-how and all these connections. You should like, make your own game or something. If you could think of all this, you should get Nintendo to hire you and you should work with the Zelda guys and totally give them what-for on their Zelda story planning. 

    If you were planning the story, I’m sure the game would have a heck of a lot more “Oh…” and “No way…!” and “It all makes sense now!” moments. I really like all these concepts, and I’d like it if Nintendo actually implemented these ideas into future Zelda titles.

    Heck, if I could (or if it would even be possible) I’d make a “giant” Zelda game, in which you start out at the very beginning of the Zelda storyline, play through each game with the same graphics style throughout, and have the ability to choose which timeline you want to go through, while being able to go back and play through all the timelines. (or at least something along the lines of that concept). It’s the same I wish they did for (pardon the reference) Pokemon, where they’d make a game where you start in Kanto, and work your way through every region, but make the game more RPG like. (I can only dream)

    But like I was saying, you’re pretty detailed with these interpretations. Not to mention your Zelda reviews are really true and in depth. You should work for Nintendo in the Zelda section. I even hope that the Zelda makers read this website and all your articles.

    • Emma Mix

      *sigh* 

      I hope your dream comes true Stenaven, because it’ll sure make me and a whole bunch of other people happy too.

    • John

      I say the same thing, but what about a game placed at the end of ALL time lines, where they ALL somehow converge, the Links at the end of the time lines meet and have to defeat all the Ganons/Ganondorfs/Vaatis etc, and the world from then on is forever at piece? This leaves room anywhere between SS (or any game placed before that) and the final game to be filled in.

      • http://twitter.com/MixEmma Emma Mix

        That sounds good but then all the evil would be gone and there would be NO MORE LOZ!!!! OMG THAT WOULD BE TERRIBLE!!!!

  • Ganondorf Dragmire

    The Zelda timeline looks like Ganondorf’s symbol now!

                        _A-tWW-PH-ST
                       /
    SS-tMC-OoT-FS-FSA-ALttP-LoZ-AoL
                       |
                       C-MM-TP-OoX

    See?

    • Emma Mix

      Oh wow… AWESOME.

    • Nintendocan

      That’s not the Zelda Timeline. This is:

                             A: – WW-PH – ST                      /SS – MC – FS – OoT – ALttP-OoX-LA – LoZ-AoL
                           
                            C:-MM – TP – FSA

      Ths spaces in between the – means it’s the same Link.

      • Nintendocan

        Oops. I messed it up.
        Before Split: SS – MC – FS – OoTFailed Timeine: – ALttP-OoX-LA – LoZ-AoLChild Timeline:-MM – TP – FSAAdult Timeline: – WW-PH – ST

        The spaces in between the – still means it’s the same Link.

    • Nintendocan

      That’s not the Zelda Timeline. This is:

                             A: – WW-PH – ST                      /SS – MC – FS – OoT – ALttP-OoX-LA – LoZ-AoL
                           
                            C:-MM – TP – FSA

      Ths spaces in between the – means it’s the same Link.

  • randomftwtf

    Is it possible that the master sword is the same as the broken picori blade because if so then demise would have been released when vaati broke Tue blade so in a future installment the player may need to seal them away in one of the mirrors thus confirming The link.. correct me if I’m wrong or its impossible

  • Zelda is the bomb!!!

    i have good idea for a zelda game. it takes place before skyward sword though. how? simple. remember when link and zelda r on top of the statue of the goddess when link gets the sailcloth? well, zelda says that the goddess gave her hero a sailcloth! that’s when my game idea would take place :) i even have a name for it

    The Legend of Zelda: True Origins
    * plays zelda main theme*
    Cool aint it?

    • Emma Mix

      Isn’t it hard to make an entire storyline just because of a piece of fabric? XD

      • Gor Quinta

        Well they made ocarina of time based off of the ocarina in ALttP. And the Minish Cap off Four Swords Series

        • Emma Mix

           Yeah but I mean the sailcloth… That doesn’t really justify an entire story. Plus, if you did make “True Origins” or whatever, there wouldn’t be any LINK, and that would deem it a lame game. (in my opinion)

  • Edogjones13

    The Zelda games all fit together in their own way. If the makers of the games made it as easy as pie then it wouldn’t be so fun to put everything together. Also what about the hand in the toliet could that be some sort of demon that needs paper to grow beck if it does then it might become important because it’s also in majora’s mask so maybe the bathroom in skyloft could be the same as in the inn. So think about what that would mean.

    • Emma Mix

      Yeah, when I played Majora’s Mask ten years ago I never really got that part… XD

  • TC

    I agree with most of your theories and im a bit confused how the dragons and the light spirits have the same name. Also I have no idea what the pig with the sword is.

    • Emma Mix

      The pig is Ganon in beast form and he’s holding his own sword.